I know nothing about the Kardia. How does it work? What does it show? What type of AFib does it help with?
I thought my type of PAF was typical but since joining this forum there seems allsorts.
Tell me about the Kardia: I know... - Atrial Fibrillati...
Tell me about the Kardia
Written by
Physalis
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36 Replies
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BobDVolunteer
Firstly AF is AF is AF. What triggers it and how it affects us all is the individuality part.
Kardia or Alivecor is a hand held device which can produce an ECG which shows AF. It doesn't help with AF or treat it in any way. Just enables those who do not know, to see when they are in AF.
Is that all it does?
Yes, I can see there are an awful lot of individual responses and people's experience of AF can be so different. Does that show up on the ECG in some way?
The reported triggers and ways of dealing with it seem a bit subjective at times. And some people have AF once every few months and others almost every day.
Atrial flutter is AF but the ventricles don't keep up with the atria. I'm just curious, does that show up as AF on the Kardia. How does the Kardia connect with the body? Do you have pads?
You simply place device on phone,place fingertips on it and wait 30 seconds. It's stays on your phone appso you can show medics. Simples!
Very useful for those trying to capture events
What type of events? Does it pick up ectopics?
And did I see somewhere that you can get one with six leads?
No doesn’t pick up ectopics and say ectopics it will probably say possible af...or something like that I rarely use it now
It does pick up ectopics but unless there are long runs of them every couple of beats - in which it will give you a yellow 'somethings not quite right' warning (not the actual words) it will probably give a green 'normal' reading. You learn to identify what are obvious ventricular ectopics quickly as they are quite noticable on the ECG readout. You can also send off your results online to their medics who will provide a report re. What the 'not quite right' ECG means for around £5,00 (good learning tool for identifying your own ectopics). They would probably do it for the green normal readings as well if you felt something was up at the time of the ECG.
It also shows atrial flutter and atrial ectopics but doesnt say what they are. However your Dr should be able to diagnose them from the ECG readout the Kardia provides. The 6L kardia provides a lot of info for Drs, but the single lead original one provided info on ectopics - ventricular and atrial, attrial flutter as well as AF that my specialist team and the Kardia medics could diagnose.
I find the Kardia gives me peace of mind if things are going a bit off with my heart and helps me work out if I may need medical attention. The only downsides with it is that it takes 30sec to start the reading so can miss brief fast runs of arythmia and the 6L one (when taking the 6 lead reading rather than the simple 1 lead one) requires you to put the rear sensor on your knee or ankle. Easy when in shorts or a skirt - less so in trousers - strange looking if out in public!
Also to keep backups of all your ECGs online and recieve free monthly reports it costs £10.00 per month. However it is easy to save your readings elswhere and print them out.
Flutter is quite a different arrhythmia and has a distinctive saw tooth profile on ECG. Flutter normally in right atrium whilst fibrillation is in left.
Thanks and ectopics are one off PACs or PVCs? I think one of my sons has ectopics. I think that's what I started with 25 years ago.
I have just learned this morning that atrial flutter is where the atria are beating faster than the ventricles. In hospital I got diagnosed with AFib with fast ventricular response. I suppose that means my heart was going fast but my ventricles were keeping up! It doesn't matter whether the left or right atrium is involved they beat at the same rate.
No, lots of impulses were getting through to your ventricles, hence the fast response, but if all of them got through (400 bpm) you’d be dead - that is what a cheery hospital dr told me, so very fortunate they are blocked 😀
No just place on phone or tablet,with Kardia App on ,follow brief instructions ,place two fingers on kardia wait 30 seconds . Up comes results instantly,you can email directly. It saves the history to your phone too so you can take as evidence to Drs.
Kardia also offer a diagnostic service...chargeable
It is a small credit card size device that links to your phone or tablet. It records a basic ECG which you can email directly to your consultant for info/ advice.
It's useful to a point,gives proof of AF,especially if you are in PAF!
New version out too which I haven't got yet.x
Hi Physalis 
I have found my KARDIA (the basic 2 lead model) very useful and wish I had known about them sooner. Doing so would have enabled me to get a diagnosis of P-AF more quickly and without the stress of trying to get myself to hospital for a diagnostic ECG during an episode of P-AF something that took 6 months. During an episode I felt to ill to discuss transport and didn't fancy calling an ambulance and being taken to A&E in my local failing hospital to wait up to 15 hours on a trolly by which time my episodes might have terminated and would not have been captured while my anxiety went through the roof.
Since getting my KARDIA I have used it to track and record the progression and frequency of my P-AF , to confirm the start and end of an episode and to send for analysis any unclassified reading that is causing me concern (it costs £5 nothing if you subscribe and takes 24 hours)
I use my KARDIA with an Ipad and the recordings are saved in the History file thought I email them to my laptop and file them too. KARDIA has a useful library with examples of different rhythms useful for making comparisons.
I manage my P-AF myself with a minimum of intervention from the medical profession (there is little help from them anyway where I live ) and find my KARDIA invaluable to help me achieve this.
Yes, I think that these devices are brilliant at monitoring when and for how long episodes last. I was diagnosed while in hospital but didn't take it too seriously. The thing was that I could feel when it started but I wasn't aware of when it finished so it was all rather vague.
I didn't feel ill with it but I suppose you did and you were aware when it stopped each time so could confirm it with the Kardia. If the AF made you feel so ill, how is it being managed?
Do you look at the library with the different rhythms much?
Hi Physalis 😊 I almost always know straight away when an episode starts because I feel ill , I can now tell by looking at the KARDIA printout that it is P-AF and not something else , the patten is familiar with the lack of P waves.
I use the library occasionally , my misbehaving heart sometimes produces oddities, I have had other episodes with breathlessness and 'regular irregularities' that turned out to be long runs of PACs (ectopics) diagnosed by KARDIA .
How is it managed, after a while I overcame my fear and anxiety and planned a coping strategy . I know my episodes will last around 8 hours so I do those things I need to do like arranging a light meal (always home made food in the freezer) stagger down the field with the dog then lay down to do my breathing and relaxation technique while using the radio for distraction. Sometimes I manage to fall asleep and that shortens the time I am conscious of the episode. I get them every 10 days now it is just something I live with.
Thanks for this info doodle. I didn't know there was a library. Do you need to subscribe for that? I've been considering it. Like you I find it helpful to track my episodes. My cardiologist likes it too and I also send to my GP so there's a record on file. That's assuming they are efficient enough to file it! Like you I always know when I have it - unpleasant feeling and yes - one feels unwell and 'disturbed'.
Hi Singwell 😊 I have just realised the KARDIA app on my Ipad has changed completely recently and the library page seems to have gone along with other useful information pages with much more focus being put on personal records.
I have had a look around for you to see if it is archived somewhere but can't find it.
This is the nearest I can find...
''Guide to Kardia MobileECG recordings and what to do with them''
Not sure if the link will work for everyone
chrome-extension://oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/events4healthcare.com/ichp/...
Hi doodle
Are the unclassified readings worth getting analysed or are they usually ectopic?
Hi Equish 😊 'unclassified' can be many things , I can't say if they are worth getting analysed that is up to each person to decide.
I have had them analysed when I have been unsure about a reading and that coincided with my feeling unwell and my heart doing odd things.
Hi, I have the 6 lead Kardia which I conveniently updated to just prior to my most recent run of PAF.
To record the 6 lead tracing is a bit awkward as 1 finger from each hand is placed on the small plate, but you have to be able to put the back of the small plate on bare skin on your left ankle or knee, so not something you can do in the middle of a crowd! You can just do a 1 lead tracing with just your 2 fingers and then do a 6 lead tracing when an abnormality is recorded.
You are able to add notes to each tracing about symptoms or activities linked to the recording time which can help build a full event history.
I had recorded frequent atrial ectopics with pulse deficits and some AF in the 12 months after my first ablation. However the EP was very happy to get the printed 6 Lead ECG as documented proof of me relapsing into AF and schedule my next ablation.
Generally, I find the Kardia conservative in its classification of the arrhythmias.
When looking at the tracings recorded since my second ablation I am only concerned if the RR interval is frequently irregular over the minute tracing, which it fortunately rarely is now. This is usually recorded as an unclassified reading. I find this often is seen pre or post AF and corresponds to pulse deficits or skipped beats.
In summary it has been reassuring to use the Kardia to document that NSR has returned after an AF episode and provide a documented history of palpable arrhythmias for the EP. It has stopped for now me needing to have an implanted loop recorder.
One limitation is that I find body tremors affect the readability and quality of the tracings base line but this is less of an issue since upgrading to the 6 lead Kardia.
I hope this helps.
The enormous benefit to me has been confirming whether I am in AF or having some other event - such as a brief run of tachycardia due to anxiety. My GP was concerned that I was underestimating episodes and more at risk of a stroke than I thought. So I use it whenever I have slightest suspicion of AF and the app records the results. It confirmed that I had very few and how long they lasted and how frequently. It also gives some evidence of whether taking Bisoprolol changed the course or appeared not to.
To me, it has been BRILLIANT because it lessens my anxiety and gives me information ie power.
I have the simplest one. It is an oblong piece of plastic a little longer than a credit card and thicker, with two small metal sensor plates on it. It has no “leads” as such. You simply open the app on your smart phone and place Kardia near to phone, put index and middle fingers onto the plates and wait 30 seconds. Your phone will show the trace. If the connection is poor it tells you and you can adjust position, (fingers too dry for example or proximity to something electronic affecting it etc). It is the simplest most transportable gizmo. My cardiologist says they use them o the ward.
Another vote from me for the Kardia... I have the basic '1 lead' version. Once you learn how to identify all your own 'personal anomalies' you'll be able to identify what sort of ectopic beats you are having, as well as confirm that you are in AF, or whether it's what I can only call 'slow AF'; when the waveform is complete, but the timings between beats are completely 'off'. For me, this often leads in to 'proper' AF where the P wave becomes lost in the mess.
Definately worth getting one.
It's not really an either or. I hadn't thought of getting something that recorded an ECG, I thought a wrist monitor would do the trick. It was only in May last year after I had a fall that I bought my apple watch because of its fall detect feature. Fortunately I haven't had a fall since so haven't been able to test it.
It was a couple of months later that I tried out the ECG app and started to record my hr every four hours on a spreadsheet. That was a game changer. I could see when I was in AFib, how often it happened, how long it lasted and when it stopped. Now six weeks after my ablation I am still doing it, it only takes me a couple of minutes a day.
The apple watch at £399 is a lot more expensive and, just for AFib, the Kardia would be a much cheaper option. On the other hand there are lots of apps on the watch which can be very useful. Once the blanking period is over I intend to use the fitness apps to encourage me to become more active. The iphone apps are on the watch too. And it can email my ECG to my doctor if I want it to so he can analyse it.
I suppose one thing that the watch does that the Kardia doesn't is continually monitor my hr. It does it about 300 times a day so, presumably would be more likely to catch ectopics. And you can scroll back through the day to catch things you maybe hadn't noticed.
Tessa
Sounds like you're on your own case Physalis. If it's any use to know, there was a Finnish study of people with Paroxysmal AF and they were given interval training. The outcomes for AF were less frequent episodes and better QOL. I recently started interval walking and my BP levels down about 10 units both diastolic and systolic. The meds didn't do it nearly so well! So when you're back to exercise I'd recommend this - great way to gently get the body used to HR variability.
The best (and primary) thing about KardiaMobile is that it confirms the user is having an AF episode and the medical-grade EKG it generates can be emailed to a physician to prove to him/her that the patient has indeed experienced an AF episode. Over time, proof of numerous AF episodes (as recorded by Kardia) is essential in convincing the physician/EP to take appropriate further action to address the paroxysmal atrial fibrillation (PAF) situation the patient is facing.
In addition to AF, KardiaMobile can also detect bradycardia and tachycardia.
The Kardia device communicates with the associated app on one's smartphone or tablet by way of ultrasound technology.
Link to Kardia manual (pdf): alivecor.com/previous-label...
In my case my KardiaMobile was immensely important in proving to my cardiologist/EP that my PAF was getting worse (more frequent and longer lasting episodes) and that my name needed to be added to the waiting list for an ablation. I ultimately had my first and only PVI cryo-ablation on 21 Aug. 2018 and have not experienced any episodes of AF since. I'm feeling great and my quality of life has been restored.
Best wishes,
Richard
Hi Richard
Yes, the Apple watch does all those things. In my case I took my graph of four hourly heart rates to the cardiologist showing that I was having about three episodes of AFib a week lasting 15 or more hours each time and my heart rate was varying between about 60 and 140 in AFib. At the hospital I had a holter monitor fitted which showed results probably more extreme than the watch. I think the Kardia just like the watch records the number of beats and produces an average over the 30 seconds. You know it's accurate because you can count them. The holter can record individual highs.
For me the important thing was pinning down what was happening as I knew when the AFib started but was not at all clear how long it went on for or when it had stopped.
I had my ablation about six weeks ago and have only had one episode four weeks ago of six hours so for me I can say it worked.
How often did your episodes last?
Tessa
Hi Tessa,
In the 12 months prior to my having the PVI ablation I was having an AF episode roughly once a week (sometimes twice a week), with each episode lasting anywhere from 10 to 22 hours. My PAF condition, which was for the first several years well controlled with propafenone (and later flecainide and still later disopyramide), deteriorated to a point where these medications did not prevent episodes from occurring.
I was always VERY symptomatic when in AFib and always knew straight away when it started and when it ended.
It sounds like the Apple watch does an equally good job of detecting and recording AF, and knowing what I know now I'd likely buy that product instead of the Kardia device. Back in 2017-2018 my cardiologist/EP recommended I obtain an AliveCor KardiaMobile device and that's what I went with. I have no regrets. I still use it every now and then to check my heart rate (BPM).
Richard
My doc said it is legit. You can get it for $85 on Amazon.
I used to use a two lead Kardia, and still have it. The older model that I have used an ultrasound signal to communicate to the phone or tablet via it's microphone. The newer 6 lead version now uses Bluetooth instead. I really don't see the utility of the 6 lead version, to me it is just marketing hype as it takes a degree of both knowledge and skill to interpret the results of a 6 lead ECG trace. The simple two lead version is enough to give you all the information you need about how fast and how irregular your heart is beating, and shows when you are in AF very clearly.
I now have a Withings MoveECG which gives a totally similar result, measured in a totally similar way using two points of contact, one on each arm/hand. I can't recommend it, as the support from Withings is extremely poor should it go wrong. However, as a device I much prefer it.
Be aware that there can be compatibility issues with both of these devices, you need an Android or iOS phone or tablet, and even then not all of them will work well enough.
My EP suggested I get the Kardia when I described what was happening to me about once a month. Went to ER one time but I converted right when I got there so they didn’t get a AFib reading. I feel when I go into AFib as my heart rate goes up to about 175 and is very irregular, cannot get a blood pressure, very scary but after getting the Kardia, caught the A Fib next week. Sent reading to doctor and he called saying yes it was AFib and started me on Flecainide and Eliquis. I get very anxious when I think it might be coming back but having the Kardia I can check and it helps calm me down. Well worth the money, best money I ever spent, in fact.
I had a one of the early Kardia devices, helped me enormously. Just knowing what was going on was reassuring. Had one before my EP had ever seen one. I like tech gadgets and data! Then had a loop recorder put in, which has also helped so much. Nice to know the docs have all the data they need. And the Kardia lets me see immediately what’s going on. I did buy the newer 6 lead one last winter, figured I’d be able to send those readings to my new EP while I was traveling last winter since I didn’t take the linq transmitter ‘phone’ with me. Fortunately didn’t need to!
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