There are frequent posts about the link between AF and digestive problems and I know that it is now generally agreed that there is a strong link. It was not always so. Even manmy EPs were dismissive of the idea until around 2008 adn not all agree now. I recall my EP back in 2005 telling me looking for triggers was the road to madness and to some extent he is right. One common denomintor is over eating especially late in the evening. For my part I try not to have dinner any later than 7 pm with maybe a light snack around 10 if hunger intrudes. Smaller plates (smaller meals) also helps enormously and I remember one past member who stated that rather than eat meals, they grazed throughout the day. Whilst this for many is a recipe for weight gain it can work if one is strong willed.
One really strange thing for me is that the one food one would expect to cause problems is actually the one that calms my insides and always gives me a good night's sleep. Last night I discovered that Ganges, the best Indian restaurant in the West Country was open for take aways and the resulting Punjabi Railway lamb curry gave me the best sleep for days. Mindful of not over eating I still have half the curry in the freezer to pour over a baked potato on some other needy evening. My wife thinks it is the ginger.
On a seperate matter is anybody else beginning to look like Robinson Crusoe in this lockdown?
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OH always sneezes when there is ginger in anything - he sneezes a lot at my cooking as there is usually ginger in just about anything I cook 😅
Gave him a haircut yesterday - I thought it was pretty good but he thinks I shouldn’t have tampered with his side burns, however, I am very, very reluctant to ask for a recipricol.🤨
Would certainly agree that a late evening meal , particularly if large, is a recipe for AF.
I'm sure we will see a few Robinson Crusoe lookalikes in the coming weeks 😆 I've cut my husband's hair ...what there is of it...and beard for years now with no 2 c lippers. I believe that Boots sold out of hair clippers at one point.
A group of us would meet up to eat at the local pub on a Friday night. A friends husband swore that he slept wonderfully whenever he had the sticky sticky toffee pudding. So I can quite believe your lamb curry doing the same Bob. Just need to find out what food would help me!
I've been reading a lot lately about how spices help digestion. I know you should not believe all you read on the net, but there are loads of people saying Turmeric Cardamom Ginger Cinnamon Cumin etc all help digestion! All curry spices. It's probably curry that's too greasy that's indigestible, ie fat not spices to blame. And yes life in lockdown is hairy in more ways than one.
Agreed, I can eat something completely innocuous and it will play havoc, or I can have something that you think will cause havoc and it does nothing! Really odd!
I often have really bad pains to the left of the sternum and centre of the breastbone and some are really sharp, but I now know it's a case of letting some air out and it goes. Amazing how such a tiny bit of air can cause chaos with the heart. I get runs of ectopics and SVT when I've over indulged sometimes.
Like you I try to keep dinners smaller and earlier in the evening where able.
I tried growing my hair, but after 12 days I realised I looked ridiculous with bald spots and had to accept being bald is the way for me! Even my partner said I looked younger again with a fully shaved dome! Just such a hassle though keeping it smooth lol.
Do tell how you ' let the air out' I have bee n having a lot of discomfort under the lower left rib area. Some of the pain feels like a red hot knife stabbing me. Bit dramatic I know. A warm bean bag seems to be the only thing to ease it. Bit impractical for walking around 🙄
Well, there are a few ways to do this. The easiest methods are to either drink some lemonade, or something fizzy at least to purge you. Or a Gaviscon works well, usually within 20 mins and the final method I learnt somehow to burp without actually burping. I can somehow open my throat up and it releases air. God knows how I learnt that, it just happened one day.
Me too! My technique involves leaning forwards and to the left slightly and opening my gullet. Not very sophisticated when in company, but it is instantly relieving and like having the knife blade removed.
Mint or chamomile tend to relax smooth muscle tissue, such as the sphincter at the top of the esophagus.
The effect is fairly mild, but still can be helpful for a gassy tummy. (It also can be a problem for people with reflux, whose goal is to *prevent* things escaping upward from the stomach.)
If you regularly are getting a lot of gas, though, you may want to discuss that with your doctor. It may represent a food intolerance, enzyme deficiency, or other digestive problem. My gas problems ended when they found out I'm lactose intolerant.
I have had similar pain in my lower right rib area and the doctor diagnosed (over the phone though he had see me a few weeks back too) that it was costachondritis. He suggested I look it up and it seems it is damage to a ligament which can take 12 weeks to heal - longer than ribs take to heal! I suspect that it might have come about as a result of exercises I was given by a physio to help with the rotator cuff tendonitis I have in the right shoulder which is improving slowly since I stopped doing the exercises! It says that the treatment for the rib pain is rest and paracetamol but I don't find that the pills helped at all so have given up on them and am just taking things very easy and resting lots. We must keep comparing notes as the stabbing pain is exactly how mine feels at its worst!
I find I get “heart awareness” every time I eat my evening meal regardless of the recipe. I often have to stop eating for a minute or two mid meal. We always eat well before 19:00. I have however never been a grazer so have no urge for a late night curry. That was the way for me and my friends in the 1960s.
Regarding my hair, I went to the barber on the last Tuesday before lockdown hoping to not look like Ben Gunn any time soon. I have a feeling that this may still happen.
Today is the 6th day on the trot we have done a 5k walk taking circa 1:10 hours.
I too get “heart awareness “ which is sometimes quite off putting. I always have a digestive biscuit about 9pm with my medication. I always feel I am preventing an upset tummy by doing this, well that is my excuse!!!!!!!
As for hair, I am learning what I could look like having grey hair. Not sure yet I’ll report later!!
I’ve consulted two well qualified nutritionists with regard to my heart arrhythmias because I could physically feel the very close relationship between my gut and heart. My EP’s I found to single-minded technicians with no wider interest in the whole body and its interconnected nature at all: neither enquired about anything as deeply or widely as my nutritionists did. Both nutritionists have said giving up gluten, dairy & meat and increasing fibre and plant-based whole foods helps significantly. All meat and dairy products can be inflammatory for our bodies and cause malabsorption. I’ve followed their advice only recently so I’ll let you know how I get on: I’m not expecting a miracle, but I’m hopeful. Under any circumstances it’ll be far better for the environment - the current collective health crisis is caused by the loss of natural habitat and the exploitation of wildlife through farming, hunting and trade greatly increasing the risk of infectious ‘spillover’ as seen with Covid-19 stemming directly from Wuhan’s grotesque wet markets. It’s a good time to examine our own diets closely. The over-prescription of antibiotics to humans explains in part why bacteria are now evolving to resist it, and why researchers are predicting 10 million deaths a year from antibiotic resistance by 2050. Antibiotic use in the intensive and cruel production of meat is pernicious as factory farming strains animal health. Meat eating also contributes disproportionately to the production of greenhouse gasses. I guess everything will have to change - ultimately for the better - as we radically reassess our lives in light of this awful health crisis from which we can learn and do things differently with regard to real sustainability. My business and my family’s small businesses are being utterly wiped out by this situation: we can’t have repeats of this crisis, we need to address it swiftly.
Amen to most of that. I'm convinced that I have Vagal AF and that my triggers are digestive. In fact I think I have a hiatus hernia but cannot have a diagnosis at present. I'm looking closely into the nutritional route and already feeling better after 10 days. It may not fix the PAF but I definitely have a higher well being.
I agree that gluten and dairy are triggers for arrhythmia,, but for me organic meat, chicken, game etc are no problem (but red meat in small quantities and no more than once or twice a week) and I need the protein. I eat lots of fish too.
Pulses, beans, soy products- all the sources of protein that vegetarians and vegans eat are absolute no-noes, digestive disaster for me!
Potatoes and starchy vegetables, fruit, sugar, yeast, gluten-free bread and cakes - anything that can ferment in the gut also now affects me again, after years of being able to tolerate such foods. Even some probiotics don’t suit me. Stress over the last few years has played a large part. And ageing!
People are different, but I think there’s a genetic component as my mother and brother suffered from heart irregularities as well as digestive issues.
(By the way, when people speak of meat, I never know what they consider ‘meat’ - is chicken, guinea fowl, included? So I always specify red meat.)
I have had L.P. AFib for around 14 years and acid reflux for around 13.5 years which medics think started due to aspirin given for afib in those days. Aspirin stopped after a few years when guidelines changed but acid was and is a permanent house guest. In hindsight aspirin may have been the catalyst but Afib the common denominator. My acid is like my Afib in that I have no triggers. Like Bob I can eat a curry with no problems. I can also eat and drink (I don’t drink alcohol) other supposed triggers and I’m fine. Afib and acid for me comes when and for whatever reason it likes although I do normally eat a healthy diet. Last couple of years though I have had to take another medication a side effect being acid reflux. 😡
I live on my own and now taking on the look of Roberta Crusoe. I did have the notion I would just use clippers and maybe a No. 8 all over or even complete shave. What could go wrong? As a good friend use to say “the difference between a good and bad haircut is about 3 days”. The only thing that has stopped me so far is knowing my luck I would make a hash of it and next day lockdown is lifted but I would have to still isolate until it’s grown again.
When I asked my EP could the vagus nerve be contributing to AF and his comment was, did I have problems with vaccinations when I was young, I certainly did, passing out, vomiting etc, his reply was, could well be. Haven"t seen him again but will approach it if and when I do. I am certain this is a problem I have had for so many years, always unexplainable, from throat to bowel.
Hi Bob. Your curry sounded wonderful. I may have to take up the local Deliveroo service (other delivery services are available ). My Mum always used to swear by Ginger as a tummy settler. Well that's my excuse for eating ginger biscuits and drinking (non alcoholic) ginger beer. With regards to the hair, now is the time to find the Francis Rossi in you and grow a ponytail!
I certainly find this link Bob and although I feel certain foods can set the AF off I think a too full stomach is the main culprit. Also leaving my evening meal too late in the day. The main digestive aid in curries is turmeric and as long as I am liberal with this when preparing one it is fine. It will be great when this awful virus is defeated and we can once again wake up in the morning and feel this lowering black cloud of infection has lifted and we can once again get on with our lives! My goodness just read that last sentence over again and if nothing it seems to be turning me quite poetic!!😁 keep well everyone!
Turmeric, I was told by 2 drs and a nutritionist, tends to thin blood so is contraindicated if taking blood thinners. This saddens me as Tumerc helps with pain and I have other health issues that are chronic pain and turmeric did help until AF was diagnosed and put on blood thinners. Now no more Tumeric.
I agree with you - a too full stomach isn’t good. It can take me a whole day for my stomach to feel empty enough to eat again even though my intestines tell me they are hungry. At the same time, my heart beats away uncomfortably🙁 Two slices of bread will do it!
Has anyone found a link between the long term use of ppis such as lansoprazole and AF. I have had heartburn reflux for 20 yrs and developed af about 5 yrs ago possibly bit longer. Last week i have cut out the PPI and have started to take gaviscon twice a day, so far no heartburn but still have a little AFIB going on especially in the morning. Perhaps the damage as already been done.
As I keep repeating here, long term use of PPIs is bad. The problem is (so I was told by an expert) that the lower sphincter in the stomach needs an acid environment in order to open and allow food down into the gut. Remove the acid and the food stays too long in the stomach increasing the possibility of reflux. I found this to my cost many years ago when my problems suddenly came back ten fold and would never want to take these horrible drugs for more than two weeks to a month at any time.
My infrequent AF went persistent after 6 months on Omeprazole to treat inflammation of the stomach. The inflammation was caused by a huge dose of antibiotics for a bad infection. My troubles stem from then.
Was it the PPI, inflammation, or infection or just bad luck? I will never know, but PPI can cause magnesium depletion in some people. And magnesium is key to healthy heart rhythm.
That said my hubby had been on PPI for 20 years and doesn't have AF! Good your AF is decreasing though.
I lived it and it was horrible! I am surprised they do not come with a huge warning on them. I learned to manage my indigestion/"heartburn" through food choices. Took quite a while to re-train my body.
In order to get AF you need a pre-disposition to it. This can be genetic or acquired (endurance athletes. binge drinking etc) . Whilst the vagus nerve can trigger AF I would not like to say it could be a cause in the same way as for example Ibuprofen and similar NSAIDs.
In older people the stomach acid level can decrease. That means that absorption of vital minerals is not great and that can lead to anaemia which happened in my case. That can lead to the heart working far too hard and becoming thickened and stiff which creates a vicious circle and I have ended up where I am all due to Omeprazole prescribed by the doc.
Warning some people do need omeprazole but gastroenterologists should be more aware of the consequences of low stomach acid in older people and not assume automatically that stomach acid levels are too high.
You can do some self testing. Go on line and find out. Unfortunately you cannot get the definitive Heidelburg test in this country.
I have to take stomach acid pills when I have protein in a meal.
Are you sure that the anaemia wasn't caused by too high a dose of anticoagulant? If you weigh under 60kg or are over 80 you should be on half the dose.
I am absolutely positive that it was not that because at the time I was on no medications and my heart and health were A1. No heart problems at all. However you make a very good point and in a few years I probably should go onto a half dose of apixaban.
Also I had bruising developing all over my arms on the full dose and a friend who is very slight said that she looked like a victim of domestic violence- much better on the lower dose of edoxaban but still very tired a lot of the time!
Poor you not good. Well I definitely don't have those problems and I am under 60kg. Phew! But also have none of the other contraindications, ie don't have TWO of the problems, which is what my leaflet says indicates a change of dose. Maybe are you/ your friend also over 80 or also have kidney problems?
I just ask because what it says on my leaflet is not what it says on yours and I wonder if you know if the recommendations have changed? Difficult to ask my doc at the moment and I am now a bit concerned. Thanks
Remember, we are all different but my doc said as I was not much over 60kg and at 76, not far off 80(!), he was happy to let me take the half dose! I have got the AF episodes down to one a week - the last one, this morning lasted just under two hours taking flecainide as PIP and some bisoprolol- it always happens shortly after I've congratulated myself on being AF free!
Yes it is an unpredictable condition. One a week sounds manageable. I am down to one or two a month. Some months none. Very short, say 30 mins to 2 hrs. Better than the 24/7 persistent it used to be before two ablations. Good luck.
I thought I'd replied on my smart phone but it turns out, it wasn't so smart (or perhaps it was me!) Anyway, you seem to have had this thing for longer than me. I've had it around two and a half years and still paroxysmal and not really any mention of ablation which I must admit, I am not that keen on. I feel a little in control of things with administering the drugs as required but as most of my episodes start while I'm in bed (and I never eat large meals and evening meals always end before 8) I can't see what the trigger is apart from things I can't do much about like needing to have a pee! Am trying to sleep on right side but have pain in that shoulder and side at the moment so may not always manage it!
We must all just appreciate each moment at this dreadful time! Good luck to you too!
Sanjay Gupta has an excellent Utube on the heart/stomach/vegas nerve connection and you are absolutely right the connection is def there. I am one of the grazers of this world and am also a believer that ginger helps the digestion.
Certainly all my ‘posh frocks’ are firmly in the wardrobe and I spend my days in gardening gear. Am so grateful to have a large garden. I would be going spare cooped up in a flat.
My husband has cut my hair, and I have done his, for pretty well most of our long marriage. Have saved a fortune in both time and money.
Hi BobD this Vagel AF does my nut in, no one ever diagnosed you of this and its sometimes such a difficult thing to explain, as i only think i have Vagel AF due to the comments on this forum, as i have horrible issues of getting skipped/jumped beats when lying back in my chair or in certain sitting positions when i feel sort of pressure on my back from sitting i get little skipped/jumps in the heart area just cant figure out what it is, i know if i don't sleep properly the night before or if i'm unwell my heart will skip all day the next day, just don't seem a way of defeating it. Just imaging everytime you are going to sit down you got to make sure you are in a decent position, the chair is as comfortable as possible, try not to lean to your side to much try not to sit back for to long it just exhausting.
I've had AF for about 10 years and it began with an accompaniment of incessant burping - due to vagal irritation, I now know. My endo refused to link these symptoms. It was coincidence. Lovely man but wouldn't countenance that link. Was referred to a hospital endo for possible surgery (decided not to proceed but continued seeing him) and he is much more open to the link. Even now if I get the burps, I take WindEze or simlar and can often prevent an attack that way.
I am positive that the vagal nerve is the major culprit but pinpointing what kicks it off is another matter. It used to be alcohol - one glass of bubbles and that was it. Not so now. Chocolate used to do it - doesn't now. Mostly it's positional. Lying on my LH side, too far back in a chair etc, sets it off. I moved from pill in the pocket Flecainide to am/pm and that has mostly done the trick. Still get them but far less often. Mind, when they come, they last up to 12 hours and I hate them but I'm trying to chill about it as anxiety seems to make it worse.
I can't say that large or late meals make a difference - I've always enjoyed hearty meals and still do! I guess each of us is different and learning to recognise your triggers is part of the journey.
Yes but almost always at night, causing me to wake in AF. As I say, regular Flecainide has made a huge difference ie. 4 episodes in Nov, 2 in Dec, 2 in Jan, 3 in Feb. I can cope better with that and if I throw tablets at it pronto, I can often limit duration.
Bob you know this is a theme for me too. Others have talked about the course of the vagus nerve and for me that link is obvious - heart, stomach, larynx = digestion. I cannot understand why these links have not been examined. I wasn't kidding when I suggested in s thread the other day that I take up the banner and do a research project on it. My doctorate isn't medicine but I think it could be done as a lay person with a research background and acid reflux is of strong interest in the voice research community.
As for my hair - I'm lucky cos I got it cut in March and it'll last easily till June and the husband has no hair. Friends with dogs are using dog clippers.
I asked a cardiologist many years ago if there was a link between digestion, the vagus nerve and AF/PAF. He dismissed me fairly quickly and said there was no evidence for it. However, over the years there appears to be an agreement that there is a link. I think it is trial and error for the individual. Personally, I eat, little and often with smaller portions but I know there are certain foods, processed in particular, which no longer agree with me and can trigger a PAF episode so I leave them alone. Hope you keep well and safe in this crazy world of ours.
Large meals, and meals high in carbs, certainly worsen the symptoms of other autonomic disorders, such as POTS and orthostatic hypotension.
Have you tried eating smaller, lower carb meals, especially when you're somewhere you can't rest afterward? It might be that your curry problem is not the lovely spices but the lovely rice and breads.
My most frequent trigger is turning my neck or chin down therefore assuming vagus nerve must be located somewhere there. But chocolate which I love another trigger
I always need to prop my tablet up to eye level. Bending chin to chest reading canstart ectopics, not everytime, but if i am having a day of ectopics that will likely cause me to have one. I dont mind ectopics but sometimes they can initiate palpitations which can last for up to 3 hours. We all have different symptoms. But i do think the vagus nerve is the problem. You should buy yourself a book prop
I thought I'd posted a comment on here last night but can't find it so goodness know where that went! Anyway, a reprise.....when I was first diagnosed with PAF back in 2014, I was wakened up during the night with my heart rate all over the place. I put it down to having eaten a curry around 2030 but cardiologist completely ruled out digestive issues, I didn't believe him then and I still don't! Every episode of AF I've had has occurred during the night when I've eaten late or eaten something that doesn't agree with me during the evening, e.g. anything gluten or barley based and after reading about the vagus nerve in relation to digestion I am more convinced than ever there's a definite connection. But there's another factor I think plays a part. I had a colonoscopy a while back and was told that my bowel was longer than the M25...and then some! So I'm wondering if it's feasible to assume that all this excess bowel (especially if full!) has to find somewhere to go and in so doing can push against the vagus nerve, can anyone else relate to this?
Wishing you all the very best during this very strange time, stay safe....x
I have fast rate and sometimes SVT attacks when I have a bowel movement, I also have this theory that it's related to the full bowel putting pressure on my vagus nerve
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