Verapamil and Bisoprolol

[7164]

Dear all

Pick your brains please.

I was on 2.5mg of Bisop but it took my pulse and bp low (pulse 50 and 90/60). My paf was increasing so I switched to Verapamil 120 which I tolerate much better pulse and bp good. But the verapamil is not holding the paf back. I could not tolerate the Flec so no anti arhymic drugs. I now await ablation so that’s good. The cardio people are understandably busy so can’t speak to them. I would consider taking the Bisop on top of the Veramapril to help get back to NSR. Does anyone take these two drugs together?

All help appreciated.

I accept that the virus issues and not controlled paf is making my anxiety worse but I am trying to control it and not visit A@E

Thanks Rod

[CDreamer]

Very personal comment - I wouldn’t even give the thought headspace. And yes I am very biased and some people find it helps them.

Put Bisoprolol in the search box to research all the people on this forum who struggle with the affects of Biso - including withdrawal issues - and it is unlikely to stop or prevent AF. It may help stabilise BP but the danger would be that as a rate control drug it may push your HR too low.

Some people I know do take a low dose a PIP to control HR & find it decreases symptoms. Everyone reacts differently though.

[7164 in reply to CDreamer]

Thank you.

Probably just too anxious at the moment and not helping myself.

Every time after I eat I feel that ectopics and in the early hours. Getting anxious to eat and go to bed. Think I need some psychological help maybe.

Rod

[CDreamer in reply to 7164]

I am sure psychological assistance would be helpful for teaching coping strategies. Breathing techniques are especially helpful.

If you use food as self soothing & then go to bed on a full tum, that alone may trigger events. Try to leave 3 hours between eating & going to bed. The attraction of Bisoprolol is that it is also an adrenaline blocker so sometimes used to treat anxiety but anxiety can also be caused by withdrawing from Bisoprolol.

May I suggest you look up Human Givens - a very good book on anxiety & their methods often have a high success rate in a short number of sessions.

Best wishes CD

[Hidden]

I think you are playing with fire thinking about taking both without a physicians ok on it. You are already a little bradycardic ( slow heart rate) and your bp is nice and low. Mixing the drugs could drop the bottom out on your bp and you will no longer need an ablation, you will need CPR!!! Sorry for the bad joke, but seriously, these are not drugs to play around with.

[7164 in reply to Hidden]

Hoski

Thanks. I feel much more anxious at the moment maybe because of my recent bad experience with the Flec and feel my paf is not controlled and with the virus around.

I want to get it under control. But I am at the tail end of a nasty flu virus so that is probably why the paf keeps popping up

Rod

[Hidden in reply to 7164]

Yes I usually have more trouble when Im sick. Make sure you are well hydrated. No alcohol, etc and try to relax as much as you can. Anxiety loves to stir it up. Not fun. Keep us posted on how you are.

[7164 in reply to Hidden]

Thank you.

I have had no alcohol since I was given the joyous news of paf 18 months ago. I wondered what paf was then. I know now !!

Rod

[Hidden in reply to 7164]

Ive had paf for 4 1/2 yr. I was awful at first but it slowly got better. Ive not had any in 2 yr now. Getting a handle on the anxiety it creates was hardest for me. Ive lost some weight, exercising and trying to behave. It takes awhile to believe paf isnt going to kill you, eventually it becomes mostly an annoyance. Hang in there. Hoping the ablation is the answer. Once you are over the virus, you might ask about giving flecainide another go while waiting for the ablation. It might have been the virus that was making you feel so bad. Flecainide was/ is an easy drug for me, but we are all different with meds

[7164 in reply to Hidden]

Thank you

I am scared if the Flec as I landed in A@E with it.

My episodes are definitely becoming worse and more frequentl

Rod

[Hidden in reply to 7164]

Do you know how soon you can get the ablation?

[7164 in reply to Hidden]

Was 3 months but who knows now. Worried that I will be permanent by then

[7164 in reply to Hidden]

Hoski

How did your paf get better

Mine is still horribly symptomatic

Rod

[Hidden in reply to 7164]

The only part that got better is the frequency, started out every 3-4 mo, then 5-7 mo now 2 yr and counting. I have paf with rvr( rapid ventricular response) which probably all the lucky ones of us do that have symptoms that put you in bed. My last one 2 yr ago was 12 hours of hell. Ive always managed to stay home and ride it out. So lets hope yours gets tired of knocking on your door so often. Ive made a lot of changes in my life so who knows why a fib let up on me. I retired which decreased alot if stress in my life.

[7164 in reply to Hidden]

Hoski

Thank you so much. I truly hope that I get that ablation soon and it works 🤞

I have the same type of paf ad you had (had!!). Life changer. I too have cut out the booze etc and lost weight but it keeps on knocking.

Horrible club this but great people in it.

I suspect I will be asking more questions 😬

Rod

Ps hope it lasts, your current state, forever

[Hidden in reply to 7164]

Thankyou! Here’s to good health for us all⭐️

[Buffafly]

As I understand it neither verapimil nor Bisoprolol hold AF back, if by that you mean stop episodes? They may help prevention by keeping BP and rate low when not in AF though. I take Diltiazem which is supposed to have the same effect. Now the next comment is entirely from my own experience - I can't take a higher dose of Diltiazem because although it helps when I am in an episode it takes my pulse too low after I come out of it. So as Bisoprolol took your HR and BP too low on its own I would be very worried about the combination. No medical knowledge, just working from your information. It is very frustrating at the moment because although AF is just as distressing as it always was to us it has gone even further down the list of doctors' concerns than it was before.

[7164 in reply to Buffafly]

Buffafly

You are so right that it is distressing. I have had flu like symptoms for the past three weeks, no high temp nor continuous cough, but my af had definitely been worse and keeps threatening to come on. Driving me mad and I want to do something about it. GP gave me anti biotic today for slight chest infection.

Rod

[Buffafly in reply to 7164]

Hope that helps, it should.

[CDreamer in reply to 7164]

Most of us find any infection means an increase in episodes & symptoms. Hope the antibiotics help your chest and so settle your heart. Keep posting - here to support you.

[7164 in reply to CDreamer]

CD

Thank you

Chest tightness is easing now and anti biotics are helping

Such an anxious time for us all

Rod

[souljacs4 in reply to Buffafly]

Buffafly can I ask do you take Diltiazem on its own does it stop AF

[Buffafly in reply to souljacs4]

Yes I do and no it doesn't! However I take lowest possible dose (long story) and I can't be sure that I wouldn't have more episodes if I didn't take it.

[CDreamer]

humangivens.com/publication...

[KMRobbo]

I was on verapamil 120mg mod release for 20 months until by AF got worse. I liked it as little side effects. Verapamil is rate control it does not control rhythm. However I got AF attacks and my heart rate would gradually increase over several hours. After experimentation with my Gp, later approved by an EP, I also got 40mg normal release tablets , and when my hr started to increase i took one of those in addition to the daily 120mg (Please note initially tried using them as a pip instead of the 120 but that did notwork).

Perhaps this is sonething you could discuss with your GP.

I understood 3 x normal release 40mg taken 8 hours apart are equal to the daily 120mg mod release.

[7164 in reply to KMRobbo]

Thank you

Seems similar to me. It’s the hard ectopic beats and sudden hormonal flushing that I hate.

My anxiety with this paf seems to be getting out of control

Where are you now in the process

Rod

[KMRobbo in reply to 7164]

My afib progressed I was in high rate afib for most of 8 days. July 2017 . 130 to 195 resting. Was eventually cardioverted by flecainide infusion in the CCU of my local hospital. Then i was on flecainide and diltiazem but had lots of side effects from the diltiazem (other people have no issues). I elected to have an ablation in jan2018 and have had no afib since. Unfortunately I then developed reentrant a flutter 9 days after , possibly promoted by the flecainide was on still, and had to have another (simpler) ablation in Feb 2018, which resolved that. Not had flutter since. Came off all drugs in May 2018, not taken any since. Sometimes get ectopics , but mostly ignore them . All fine.

[7164 in reply to KMRobbo]

Kmrobbo

Thank you

I want the ablation desperately now but who knows when now?😊😊

Would do it myself if I had a wire long enough!!

Rod

[KMRobbo]

Yes I was like that , I went from "no way will I have an ablation " to "how soon can you do it"? in 2 months

[7164 in reply to KMRobbo]

I wish

I find the Afib awful😟