Flutter help request: After being... - Atrial Fibrillati...

Atrial Fibrillation Support

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Flutter help request

secondtry profile image
13 Replies

After being diagnosed 6 years ago with Lone PAF & put on 200mgs of Flecainide, all has been satisfactory to date. However, yesterday after an unusual early supper of 2 Black pudding sausage rolls (may not be relevant but the only different fact), I got what I think was my first case of Flutter just before bedtime. Nothing as discomforting as regular AF but of concern particularly as it has been mentioned here that Flecainide can cause Flutter.

Can anyone provide advice from their experience on anything connected with Flutter, which would be really valued. I am making an appointment with my cardiologist tomorrow but personal experience has in the past been equally helpful.

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secondtry
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13 Replies
BobD profile image
BobDVolunteer

All I can tell you is that flutter is regular where AF is irregular. Easy to see on ECG but more difficult otherwise.

Finvola profile image
Finvola

I have also been taking 200mg of Flecainide for nearly six years and have had many short runs of Flutter which my EP and cardiologist say is caused by Flec. Neither man is concerned as the episodes are short (averaging 10 minutes), slowish (110-130) and my ECG's are satisfactory otherwise. Certainly not as debilitating as AF and I try not to worry if it starts but not nice.

My cardiologist told me a couple of years back that if necessary a Flutter ablation could be done with high chance of success if it became a nuisance. Interestingly, since I started Nebivolol 2.5mg 18 months ago, my ectopics have been much, much calmer and I cannot remember my last run of Flutter. Might just be co-incidence.

secondtry profile image
secondtry in reply toFinvola

Thanks Finvola that is a relief to know & I will do my homework on Nebivolol, which sounds good if appropriate to my case. Enjoy your day.

7164 profile image
7164 in reply toFinvola

Finvola

Your comments please.

I was at work all day no problems. Cycled to work and cycled back no problems. Took my 1.25 mg evening Bisop and bingo 1.5 hrs later tight chest and just had a couple of good thump ectopics.

Am I putting 2 plus 2 together and getting 5 or do I have vagal Af and the Bisop is doing me no good ?

Rod

Finvola profile image
Finvola in reply to7164

So irritating Rod, I too found ectopics started when I was quietly sitting reading or at the computer. Whether it’s Bisop or just your heart being irritated is guesswork but it doesn’t help with your faith in the drug.

Ectopics are thought to be influenced by the vagus nerve and I remember reading that they start when vagal tone is low (not quite sure what that means) but vagal tone can be improved by controlled, slow, deep breathing which can actually stop the ectopics or at least lessen them.

There is an excellent video by Dr Sanjay Gupta on breathing to stop ectopics, if you search the top right box with key words. Basically you breathe in with your belly muscles to a count of 5 and out to a count of 5, using the same muscles. Repeat for at least 5 minutes. I found it invaluable.

Vagal AF - which some cardiologists don’t acknowledge exists - usually starts at night or after food. Ectopics are linked to AF only in the case that sometimes an ectopic is the starting gun for a bout of arrhythmia.

Certainly a tight chest reminds me of Bisop and how miserable I felt when taking it. I hope you get some joy from your GP and can try an alternative.

7164 profile image
7164 in reply toFinvola

thank you

KMRobbo profile image
KMRobbo

Why do you think it's flutter?

I was asymptomatic in afib even at 190 resting, however 9 days post succesful afib ablation I developed reentrant atrial flutter 140bpm (described as rate controlled) I was on 50mg flecainide and 200mg diltiazem. I was breathless just walking Into the kitchen for a brew!

It would not go away so 3 weeks later I had a SECOND ablation for the flutter. The EP s registrar advised it was possibly promoted by the flecainide.

Not had either afib nor flutter since. ( I don't think!) 2 years for the afib, a month less for the flutter.

secondtry profile image
secondtry

I have had quite a simple AF experience to date so I need to do more homework on the points you raise, thank you.

terryw profile image
terryw

Hi secondtry. I had an ablation for flutter in 2010 that was successful. Nothing was done about my AF at the time. I had a 24 hour ECG recently which showed that I was in continuous flutter. I have been taking Flecainide for many years (well before the ablation), and my understanding is that it can cause flutter. I am awaiting a Cardiologist appointment. I am one of the lucky ones who are not affected much by AF. As a final comment I had an ECG about 12 months plus after the ablation. A Cardiologist stated it was flutter, but the Electrophysiologist who performed the operation said that it was AF! TerryW.

secondtry profile image
secondtry in reply toterryw

Thanks Terry, useful food for thought prior to my cardiologist appointment next week.

Palpman profile image
Palpman

I suffered from Atrial Flutter for over 20 years then was put on Flecainide that stopped it completely.

Only problem now is that the Flecainide has caused me to have daily 10 minute AF episodes.

secondtry profile image
secondtry in reply toPalpman

Thanks for your reply, it seems to confirm we are all different!

jwsonoma profile image
jwsonoma

I was told by my cardiologist that I needed to take bisoprolol to prevent flutter as a side effect of flecainide when it was preventing the heart from going into afib. I was on 1.5 mg of Bis and and had my first episode of flutter. I took the remainder or the 5mg pill (3.5mg) and it went away in 45min. He told me to up the daily dose of Bis to 2.5mg. It slows me down too much so I am going to PIP Bis and see if it happens again. It was the first time I used the Kardia and e-mailed the ecg to him.

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