Are those that suffer from a diagnosed arrhythmia more or less likely to suffer a Cardiac Arrest or Heart Attack. I have been given different answers by the medical profession, one being:
"No your heart has been checked out, its condition is known and it is robust enough to cope, consequently your less likely to suffer a Cardiac Arrest".
The other being:
"Your heart is sensitive to electrical problems consequently you may be more susceptible to Cardiac Arrest".
In all probability no one really knows for sure, but I would be interested if anyone has asked the same question of the medical profession to know what their answer was.
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Shcldavies
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I think you will never get a universal agreement on this but my take is as follows.
Because of all the checks which have been made during your diagnosis and treatment the general condition of your heart is probably better known than for the average person in the street.
AF itself is not known to be a fatal or life threatening condition BUTthere is no doubt hat should you be foolish enough to ignore your problems and attenpt to run a marathon in AF or similar over exertion then your risk would be great.
I must also point out that some of the treatment for AF can have risks. Cardioversion for example carries the risk of stopping your heart (you sign for this on the consent form) although this is something like one in several million. One leading doctor told me that in the fifty years he has been involved with arrhythmias he has never known it to happen and one leading London hospital said they had only two , one fatal which was expected since the patient was so very ill to start with.
That it happened to me is typical of my luck but the smart doctors on hand did a great job of CPR as you may have guessed since I am writing this.
Bottom line is what will be will be. You can do full health checks on a thousand people all with no risk factors and several will have cardiac arrests despite all the checking. When my brother in law had a heart attack many years ago my wife insisted that I see my GP for a full check up. His words which I recommend were " OK we can do this but all it will show is that you are not having a heart attack NOW".
Yes your right, I think I am asking too much of our health workers it's just that I have an engineering background and know that things just do not fail without warning, proper condition based monitoring can often effectively make things last for ever (albeit by replacing parts on the way - just like Trigger's brush). Whilst I know that our bodies are far more complex than the most complex machines/electronic I cannot help thinking that more work is needed on the monitoring of conditions for early intervention to prevent avoidable deteriration must be the way ahead.
I spent 50+ years in motorsport engineering and agree that "lifing" components can indeed prevent failure. In 1981 my no1 car was the only car in BTCC to score points in every round due to 100% reliability but we really can not compare the human body with a machine. The production methods can't gaurantee parity of components or purity of materials for a start. Accept this and enjoy what we have.
Yes your right of course but every now and then I get the bug to find out more - a little knowledge is indeed and bad thing, I just need to keep thing in perspective..
Dear Bob nine years ago my son Ray suffered a totally unexpected heart attack which proved fatal. His wife at the time explained that after sexual activity followed by a very hot shower the attack happened. A PM showed arteries furred, he was 48years old and a heavy smoker. Last December our nephew aged 53years old being my husband's brothers son and our sons cousin died suddenly. He went for a jog, on his return collapsed was put on life support and never regained consciousness. Could there be a family connection was the young deaths. My husband 's mother died after a stroke in her seventies, and his father had a couple so do you think that our sons children should be checked out,they are 34yrs, 25yrs and 22years? I do worry about them all but you know what kids are like if you try to give them advice about smoking drinking and diet etc. Thank you in advance. All replies very welcome. Gladys. Xx.
As I said earlier Gladys, any checks done now will only confirm that a heart attack is not happening at that time. Unless one pays privately for angiograms and similar tests like echocardiograms not a lot could be discovered. NHS are very unlikely to test on the offchance I fear. Life style is important in these cases as we know and that will always be the difficult thing to sort out.
I read a long term study recently on endurance atheletes with AF & sudden cardiac arrest in the hope that more can be learned. If I recall I think rowing had the highest incidence of cardiac arrest but the general trend was that those who arrested during competition tended to be older (45+), it happened in the last few yards of any event when a competitor put on an extra spurt to the finish. This was a observational mega study of studies from around the world and the consensus was that the endurance athletes still have a significantly higher life span - as long as they detrain appropriately - and that is where the research is now focussing.
I have only known of one person who died from cardiac arrest directly linked to AF - a young man, ex-marine, who pushed himself too hard once too often. His parents - both medics, had begged him to stop training so hard and to seek some treatment however he refused.
Of course this story is completely anecdotal but it was a reminder to me that if we insist on pushing beyond our limits then we may put ourselves at risk so the most important we can do to keep ourselves well is to take care of ourselves, listen to our body - not our minds.
If your heart is structurally sound, you are not obese, you haven’t high BP or CV disease - then it is most unlikely that you will have a cardiac arrest because of Lone AF
I think worrying about it and seeking definitive answers will only add a stressor you absolutely don’t need so my view is to make the most of what is and enjoy!
Thank you, I am not sure what to take from it though. As I see it for those that have had an EP study they have a good degree of confidence that their electrical signals from within the heart have been analysed and the Doc knows the hearts condition - I do not know if this is also indicative of a heart with more of less risk of Cardia Arrest. Those that have had other heart checks such as electrocardiograph to confirm the heart is structurally sound may give an appreciation of the chance of a heart attack, I am not sure if it indicates anything about the veins and arteries that supply the heart.
You would need an angiogram - an invasive procedure - or a very specialised MRI to look at CV disease neither of which is usually performed unless there is some indication that it is required. My husband’s doctor had no hesitation in suggesting angiogram prior to a cardioversion when there was the slightest hint of something wrong - in his case constant extreme fatigue, breathlessness etc. Everything was clear.
Because we have something wrong with our hearts it is natural to worry - we only have one heart but to be honest I think AF is one of the things we can learn to live with provided we can manage things like high HR, BP and other ill health factors. I have met people, one very eminent EP, who has had permanent AF for over 40 years and lived a full and active life.
I think the really interesting research is going to be in molecular and genetic biology of the heart which I suspect will give us more answers than the mechanics.
Seems to me that the sentence ‘if the heart is structurally sound’ is the key. As I understand it A/F reshapes the heart over time and therefore it becomes structurally unsound. I asked the team from the Royal Brompton if over time because the brain is not always being oxygenated properly whether dementia was more likely to develop and the answer was ‘yes’ so carpe diem.
Hi, also find this interesting - sometimes! When I was taking Propafenone in combo with Diltiazem I experienced some 'pauses' where my heart stopped for several seconds. I was offered an ablation or a pacemaker, plan being that an ablation would remove the necessity for meds or a pacemaker would allow me to stuff my face with them! Since my AF returned I have only been allowed a minimal dose of Diltiazem and told no other meds unless under medical supervision. I've never asked whether my 'pauses' might extend to become a cardiac arrest as I've thought I probably wouldn't get a straight answer, so just going by the evidence. I'm not having another ablation, holding out for pace and ablate!
Yes and I am not sure a straight answer (from anyone) can be given to your question. I am guessing that if the electrical signals that could cause a Cardiac Arrest initiate within the heart then the EP study may pick up indicators as to its likelihood, however if these signals originate from outside the heart then it likely will not.
As I understand it the heart does not stop during a cardiac arrest, it continues in a very shallow way that does not allow blood to circulate, then after a few minute the lack of blood circulating causes the heart to stop - that suggests to me that your condition is not related to a cardiac arrest (but I am not Dr, I am just trying to gain some more information on the condition). With an arrhythmia the heart pumps fast/erratic but does pump blood sufficiently to keep us alive, during this condition we do not go into cardiac arrest, does that mean that our hearts are not susceptible to cardiac arrest i.e. if we were susceptible it would happen during the arrhythmia. Too many unknowns and variables but learning bit by bit to try and build a better understanding.
Depends on what your arrhythmia is. Things like long QT definitely can put you into cardiac arrest. The main issue with AF is scarring(especially if you've gone undiagnosed for years), stroke, and ultimately heart failure from damage. My EP and Cardiologist don't score cardiac arrest high on my list of things to worry about.
When I were a lad.... I spent a lot of time fixing aircraft, doing everything from putting fuel in to major overhauls which took about 3 months, depending on what sort of state it was in when it came in, established by dismantling the aircraft, followed by a careful look at all the records to see which bits had to be changed regardless, which were worn out, and what sort of use the aircraft had received, assessed by various black boxes.
All the aircraft were liberally fitted with filters which hopefully would catch any rubbish that came in with the fuel, bits of metal that might be coming off a component that was failing, dust and debris and smoke into the air intakes. followed by a general inspection of all the pipes and wires that run around it.
All complex but fairly straightforward, All aircraft have a life that can be extended, almost indefinitely, if you have very deep pockets.
So humans are very different but in some ways very similar. When a plane was presented a first glance would reveal a lot, Smoky engines, leaking hydraulics, smelly oxygen system, mysterious electrical /wireless/radar faults, bunged up filters, dripping fuel tanks and an intermittent fault sheet that was as long as your arm. For them the scrap yard beckoned.
However humans have an amazing ability to repair themselves. Major changes to lifestyles can change nearly all the inputs and start quite marked recovery processes. Mental attitudes can be changed and activity levels improved. Food content can be examined and damaging items excluded. Self repairing process can start. It is an interesting life isn't it?
I am only 47 and this past june I had a sudden cardiac arest. It's just happened. 5 sec and you're out((( It happened during a quiet walk in the park with friends on Fathers day.
Likely my friends managed to keep me on CPR for 10 min until the ambulance found its way to reach us in the forest. It was very scary for everyone and only 2! weeks after my annual FULL exam with cardiologist in the hospital. In my case this cardiac arrest started from AF and went to VF. I remember only last 5 seconds. I had 6 defibrillator shocks in the ambulance until I woke up. Thanks GOD I am alive.
Unfortunately, with AF we all going on the edge of the mountain, but keep going and enjoy every minute!
I am so pleased that you had all the help on hand and that you recovered. What a frightening experience.
A friend (80 but very fit) was on a skiing holiday in Switzerland. They were preparing to leave the restaurant after lunch to go back to the slopes when he keeled over. Very fortunately for him an English doctor was sitting at the next table and performed CPR. Shortly afterwards a helicopter arrived and he was taken to Berne for treatment, and woke 24 hours later having had an ICD fitted (the helicopter team had also had to use a defibrillator). He lived to tell the tale albeit with five broken ribs but is now back to health. But at the time, five minutes later he would have been out on the slopes and the outcome could have been very different.
I recently had a stress test echocardiogram really I think for my consultant to be able to shut me up as my dad dropped dead with a heart attack at 59. I am now 64 and it was massively reassuring to hear a different consultant from my electrician consultant tell me I had a 1% chance of a heart attack over the next two years....now I am worrying what happens after two years 😂😂😂
But it was massively reassuring I have to say, though weird having your heart revved up to 130 bpm chemically while lying on a couch. More importantly the recovery rate was excellent. That said have I stopped worrying ? Have I coco!
And as we have all said before, I am probably taking much better care of my heart health as a result of this that I may have done if I hadn’t had the flutter / fibrillation.
Good for you, keeping good heart health is a common thread to a better life
“"No your heart has been checked out, its condition is known and it is robust enough to cope, consequently your less likely to suffer a Cardiac Arrest".
This article from Mayo Clinic says that having AF does not make it more likely that you will have a heart attack, but states that there are other risks like stroke.
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