Reliablility of Omron BP machine as an AF tool - AF Association

AF Association
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Reliablility of Omron BP machine as an AF tool

redshock11
redshock11

1) if the frequency of irregular symbol appearance become from every time to one third or half the time, does it mean the AF is improving?

2) it seems to me that for a stroke from stagnant blood clot to occur in an AF patient, higher than normal heart rate and blood pressure will need to persist for quite some time (the higher the pressure the higher the risk), the longer they are above normal, the higher the risk. I would like to hear comments on these thoughts, based on one's experience and scientific material they come across.

18 Replies
oldestnewest

Doctors found a blood clot in my heart in August when they were going to do an ablation. Thankfully it didn’t travel to my brain and cause a stroke. I took my last anticoagulant 48 hours before the procedure, my BP was normal and drugs were keeping the arrhythmias in check but not totally under control.

redshock11
redshock11
in reply to Kaz747

Thanks for your reply. Do you mean the blood clot is a result of stopping the anti clotting drug?

Kaz747
Kaz747
in reply to redshock11

The doctor said it could possibly formed in those 2 days because my arrhythmias were very aggressive or the anticoagulants may not have been holding things at bay as much as we’d like. Thankfully it cleared up within a few weeks.

Not sure we are qualified to offer a meaningful response to your question. As far as 1 is concerned, AF rarely improves unless you have undergone a CV, an ablation or started to take rhythm medication. If you are saying that you used to be in persistent AF but that is now not the case, you need to let us know if is anything has changed to cause this to happen. I see from your other post you have made some significant lifestyle changes and these will certainly help but I would be interested to hear if anyone in persistent AF has gone back into sinus rhythm due only to lifestyle changes.

With regard to 2, if your CHADs score is 1 or over, you should be taking an anticoagulant.

redshock11
redshock11
in reply to FlapJack

The subject is my 80 years old father. He was asked by his cardiologist to go off beta blocker and apixaban due to anemia and low blood pressure. After the two drugs were off, he got better with two weeks. His colonscopy ordered by the doctor showed no internal bleeding. So the cause of his anemia is still unknown.

There is a very recent Australian research that showed otherwise. AF can be improved or even reverse by losing at least 10% bodyweight.

There is another newer USA study that found that using anti-thrombotics resulted in more death than those that dun in lower risk AF patients. That to me, may indicate blood thinner may have some serious side effects.

oyster
oyster
in reply to redshock11

Can you give us a link to the Australian research, on the face of it, that would be astonishing if persistent AF could be reversed simply by losing weight.

redshock11
redshock11
in reply to oyster

I cant seem to put a link in my post. Try google weight loss, AF. U should be able to find it. It is not surprising to me. Weight loss is likely to address a underlying problem, versus an ablation that is more like a cosmetic procedure.

BobD
BobDVolunteer
in reply to oyster

The Australian research, the name of which escapes me, put people on a controlled diet of 800 cals a day for three months and aimed for a BMI of 25 or less. It was mentioned at length during Patients Day at HRC in October and you may be able to down load transcipts from the website. On the back of this there have been some discussion about possibly restricting ablation for people who do not attempt to follow the life style change guidelines since it has shown to be so successful. I heard one EP comment that it was heartbreaking to perform ablations on people who they knew would be back in AF inside a year due to their life styles.

oyster
oyster
in reply to oyster

academic.oup.com/europace/a...

Here’s the link. Impressive effects from weight reduction though no results for persistent AF lasting longer than 3 months as far as I can see and length of follow is not clear.

BobD
BobDVolunteer

Clots are not dependent on how much or how frequently the AF is happening which is why so many of us prefer permanent anticoagulation. Many people only find that they have AF after the stroke hits them rather sadly as they are asymptomatic. PIP anticoagulation is fools game.

redshock11
redshock11
in reply to BobD

Do you mean clot happen randomly?

BobD
BobDVolunteer
in reply to redshock11

No just that having AF makes you five times more likely to have a clot and therefor stroke. As a far wiser man than I said it is not AF that is the stroke risk but the company it keeps. One must also remember that AF can be asymptomatic where people are not aware of it for example if they are sleeping or just do not know they have it.

37Polly
37Polly
in reply to BobD

Good advice Bob. My family has four of us with afib, three without symptoms, and sadly we lost our younger sister almost two years back to a stroke, we and her doctors agree was a result of undiagnosed Afib. By the way, none are overweight or have any lifestyle issues, clearly a genetic factor (complicated by living so long as a result of good lifestyles 😂🤷‍♀️). We are 78-84. Lost sister at 72.

I keep telling younger remaining sib with no diagnosis of afib to ask her doc about anticoagulants.

I totally endorse the importance lifestyle changes have on improving AF but like Oyster, I have not heard of any instances where it has reversed persistent AF which is why I encouraged anyone who is aware, to comment.

Regarding anticoagulants, if all continues to go well after my ablation, my EP is likely to stop my arrhythmia medication in March. I only score 1 on CHADs but he says the jury is still out with regards stopping anticoagulation and I wouldn’t stop taking them anyway.

BobD
BobDVolunteer
in reply to FlapJack

There is also some suggestion that dementia may be more likely with AF apparently due to micro embolii getting into tiny parts of the brain accumulatively as a result of non anticoagulated AF.

redshock11
redshock11
in reply to BobD

Yes. I came across that in wiki just now. On the other hand, there are also data that suggest once the general status of a person improves, i.e. bmi, waist to hip ratio, blood pressure, glucose, cholesterol improves by natural means, Dementia improves significantly. So it may not be just micro blockages to the brain. It could be a general underlying issue.

I have bookmarked a 2017 usa research with a big sample size that found that in low risk AF patients, using warfarrin versus not using, using it resulted in twice the risk of getting a stroke. That same result may also apply to apixaban. It made me suspect effective blood thinner may have some serious side effects. I have also read some theories that the shape of the atria may have significant effect on the likelihood on clot forming. This may be linked to how healthy still is the physical structure of the heart.

Cut and paste the link for some reason do not work for me here.

Hidden
Hidden

Omron also do a dedicated pocket ECG recorder - the HCG-801- which is not unlike the Kardia but much more expensive. It does not take blood pressure but will give a 28 second single display of your ECG and a basic analysis such as stable waveform, irregular heartbeat, fast heartbeat, fast and irregular and so on. There can be a worrying 'Please show this to your doctor' message. Any abnormal reading (but a max of 300 on memory) is automatically saved.

PS Wow! The UK price seems to have gone up significantly, though this may include the software to print what you save. I have not delved into the details.

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