AFIB in the workplace

[Kenton]

Has anyone else had issues with employer relations while addressing AFIB?

[Thomps95]

My only "issue" is that I had my first AFib attack while on my way to work, and the health and safety representative urged me to make a report to Human Resources, although I was not making a "claim" per se - just documenting a medical event. A couple of days later, I was called by a representative from the insurer of my workplace, who implied that I was making it up and there was nothing to report. She tried to put a bunch of words in my mouth like "you weren't really on your way to work, were you?" and "this is caused by genetic / other factors, isn't it?".

It hadn't occurred to me that this might be a stress related health issue - that is, until my character was attacked - at which point I started to realize that, yes, at least some blame did fall on the continuous pressures that I'd been under at work. Anyway, I told her that I was not making a claim and did not want to discuss it further, but that it *was* relevant to work stress and all I was doing was documenting the event - I've heard nothing since.

[Lozza53]

After I was diagnosed with AFib in August 2015, I was not allowed to return to my role of HCA by my employer. They sought a report from occupational health, who said that due to me taking rivaroxaban, I couldn't have patient contact in case of an unprovoked attack which may cause me to bleed. I must add that I worked in a mental health facility, and the patients can be unpredictable. From that moment on, I was placed on a redeployment list, as recommended by occupational health. This was for a 12 week period during which time they were not forthcoming with a suitable role away from the patients. They terminated my contract on 8th January this year as I couldn't fulfill my role as specified on my contract. I feel quite angry about how I was treated as I had given them 8 years service and I was just discarded like a worthless piece of rubbish. At the moment I'm unemployed and having to sign on for jobseekers allowance. My life has been turned upside down with managing my condition, and having to deal with limited income.☹

[Thomps95 in reply to Lozza53]

Wow Lozza that is terrible and unfair. I'm surprised that "normal interaction" with patients is so dangerous that you can't do the job if you're taking anticoagulants!

[Lozza53 in reply to Thomps95]

I understand the risks of taking rivaroxaban, as I had to have counselling from the anticoagulant nurse before they'd let me leave hospital! My ex employers were acting on the advice of occupational health, who I guess were thinking on the legal side of it and the implications if I were to be assaulted by a patient. I still feel so cheated by everything and the way they've treated me☹

[smn100 in reply to Lozza53]

That is terrible. I wouldn't be suprised if you could make a claim against them. I work with scalpels all day and take the same drug. No issues for me as you know it is an awareness not an illness. Go fight it or even ask a solicitor a question.

[Jimppy in reply to Lozza53]

How do the job centre people view your condition. Do they accept afib as a proper condition affecting the type of work you can do, or would you be sanctioned for failure to attend due to afib issues etc?

[Lozza53 in reply to Jimppy]

I had my first interview with the jobcentre back in Jan 2016, and had to show the relevant documentation regarding having my employment terminated due to health concerns. I also had the statement from occupational health stating what the concerns were regarding any uncontrolled bleeding. The job search commitment I signed specifies what type of job I'm able to do, so at least I have some control over being railroaded into taking a job that isn't suitable. It's early days though!

[Jimppy in reply to Lozza53]

That's interesting, I know they seem to be very unsympathetic generally I was curious to know if they acknowledged afib as a condition which can at times be debilitating.

[Jacky52 in reply to Lozza53]

Hi Lozza

Were you working for the NHS or a private company ? I'm quite shocked by your statement regarding losing your job. Did you ever seek legal advice for this ?

[Lozza53 in reply to Jacky52]

I was working for a private mental health facility in Northampton which has charity status. I did consult an employment law advisor when I was notified that my contract would be terminated after 12 weeks on the redeployment list, if no suitable vacancy was found. They were quite within their rights to terminate my contract on the grounds of me being unable to fulfill my role as HCA due only to the medication I take. I feel that they didn't do their best to redeploy me to an office based role, but how could I prove that if I went for unfair dismissal. The solicitor I spoke to said I would have to fund any claim against them for unfair dismissal, and there was no guarantee I'd win. Faced with limited finances, it was something I could ill afford. I wasn't happy about it, so I had to reluctantly accept their decision.

[Hidden in reply to Lozza53]

Blimey, that's way over the top. I'm a farmer which has to be one of the most dangerous jobs on the planet, but being on anti-coags doesn't stop me, and NO-ONE, doctor, EP, NO-ONE has ever even suggested that I pack up.

I would sue my employer if I were sacked for that reason unless my contract of employment was pretty clear on the matter. So what if you start to bleed. The only different between you and the next man/woman is you'll need someone to do something about it more than the normal person.

I'd be confident of a win and getting compensation.

Koll

[deelan in reply to Lozza53]

The Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission clearly states you are not to be discriminated against because of a medical condition diagnosis ... I would seek legal advice. That is a shocking way to treat an employee; talking about devaluing an individual. I might add I also work in the health care system and I am sure they would love me to leave, but they cant terminate my employment due to industrial laws.

[jaycee65 in reply to Lozza53]

were you not aware or told that afib falls within the equality act 2010 and therefore you have certain protections under the disability discrimination act? it could be that your ex employers have been a bit hasty! I hope you find further employment soon as worry wont help your condition.

[buddje in reply to Lozza53]

Surely jobseekers is not the way forward. It seems that because AF is so misunderstood that there is so much discrimination especially in the workplace. Will the consultant help you? It seems that AF can only be tolerated by the well off as they can afford to live with it. The rest will never get better due to the added stress of debt etc.

Can A/Alliance help? Is there a case for unfair dismissal? It is not much different to someone working with any other disability -arrangements have to be made to help sufferers at work or we are not an equal society

Patients with mental health issues should be no different to any other and the incidence of violence is a myth if procedures are in place to help the patients, otherwise general working practice and training need to be addressed by employers

[Jennifer53 in reply to Lozza53]

This is disgraceful behaviour on the part of your employer. If you are from Ireland you can take a case of unfair dismissal to the labour courts. Im sure its the same in the UK. They cannot discriminate against you for an illness.

[CDreamer]

I had a similar experience to Lozza and also worked in mental health arena, but at the 'soft' end and wored for a charity - I was 'asked' to leave as I would 'unreliable'. - I missed 1 hour of contact time with a client because of an episode.

I was advised to go to a tribunal as I would have easily won an unfair dismissal claim but I was just so stressed anyway by the way the charity treated its workers anyway, I left in disgust - but was VERY angry for 2 years afterwards. Interesting that is when my AF got a lot worse? Mmmmmmmm........ Just thinking about it again I can feel a hot ball of molten anger rising in my throat ..........

But my choice to walk away, for many reasons. And story had a very happy ending as I went into private practice no loved it and continued to work for another 4 years very successfully and without the stress.

[souljacs4]

Go and see an employment solicitor ring around some will let you have the first meeting without charge also surprised that a different job could not be found

I would take it further.

[Dee1989]

I have SVT and had a hard time

At work for two years. No one understood how unwell I was feeling and twice I had to call

My own ambulance with a heart rate of 240 when I felt like my heart couldn't take anymore and I was on the brink

Of passing out! I must add when I was at home I never felt the need to call N ambulance as if it got that bad my boyfriend would always camly get me to the car and take me to a and e. In the work place I just didn't feel safe. After my 2nd ablation they hired someone else and then tried to say they couldn't give me my hours back as all of a sudden they were worried about my health lol. I was so upset and gave a formal

Letter of grievance and had a grievance hearing where I used words like discrimination and harrassment (as she kept calling my doctors) she had said she was going to make redundancies and I know I was on the cards, I said about the equality act and all of a sudden I got my hours back! Could not believe it. I have since found another job and am leaving in 3 weeks 😊

[buddje]

While I was trying to get a diagnosis and find appropriate medication , my partner had time off without pay to look after me. We are now in huge debt .Whilst he was off the company he works for hounded him and disciplined him regularly. I wouldn t want this time to affect my worst enemy - it was horrific.we will never pick up the debts and could become homeless. we live on next to nothing.

[Polski in reply to buddje]

You could try contacting 'Christians Against Poverty' They are a Christian charity dedicated to helping anyone (regardless of faith) in the UK who has debt issues, see capuk.org 0800 328 0006

There are also branches in Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

[buddje in reply to buddje]

Is AF related to the huge amounts of Electro magnetic fields we are now subjected too? Mobile phones etc?

The government would lose a lot of money in taxes if it was proved to be related?

[buddje]

Employment solicitors can cost money. I wish the government would take some action. My A fib was worsened by pressure put on my partner by his employers. We tried to get an assessment from social workers to get me some help but were refused

[weezergeezer]

A different perspective...

I was self employed when I had Af, I took a couple of days off with no pay ...that was ok that's what I signed up for until it became 2-3 episodes a week, eventually I was unable to work I ground to a halt, no sickness benefit, zero help, It doesnt take long to spend your savings when you have no income, youre on your own, it took 18 months to get an abalation,

people who are employed live in a different world to the one I do

[Timmo50]

Hi Kenton, I was diagnosed with afib nine years ago and have had lots of issues with my employers, but I am still in the job after fighting many battles and would be glad to give you any advice you need. Certain details would have to be via PM and this goes to anybody else on here who is staring on the same road.

Most of the information I received came via kind people on this website.

[Hidden]

Im 63 and was working 40+ hours a week as a home health nurse, notmally driving 100 miles or more daily. My first(and last hopefully) afib was 3 mo ago. The beta blocker has such side effects and I was having dizzy spells so I voluntarily dropped down to working just a few hours a week as the driving was scary as I never know when a dizzy spell would hit. Now 3 mo later Im no longer dizzy but dont feel I have the rnergy to work regularly. I font miss the stress. Financially its tough but still putting food on the table, lol

[djroute66]

Sometimes when you at your lowest point you see the masks drop from people's faces . I have worked as a production manager for the same company 31 years with a near perfect attendance record. I ended up in hospital for two weeks with af which there didn't pay me. Or even visit me . Loyal. service counts for nothing

[Kenton]

I had a very successful career in investment banking, started a remote office from scratch and grew it into a very successful operation. Had my first ablation surgery in '09 but, management was very patient and accommodating, but went back into paroxysmal AFIB in late '13. My firm had been bought by a much larger firm by then and when I asked for patience while I was being treated with meds and possible surgery, they ignored my requests and began peeling clients away from me. I went into persistent AFIB, a cardioversion was unsuccessful and then had another ablation surgery. Then went into severe tachycardia so had yet another ablation surgery 2 months later. Needless to say, my business was suffering. Employer took more clients away from me and 2 weeks after second ablation I was put on a 90 day PIP but my revenues could not recover in time and was terminated on day 91. After 12 years with the combined firms. Thankfully, I had the resources to hire an attorney and the firm was charged by the EEOC for wrongful termination and I have sued the firm in federal court. Firm has a checkered past with abuse of employees so Lord only knows how this will play out. Seems to be a benefit to just lawyers thus far.

I would hate to think many others out there are on the wrong side of poor management decisions and have had their jobs and careers put at risk due to AFIB and its treatments.

[zara1977]

My partner suffered with his employers, Commonwealth War Graves - they are a major quasi government organisation and although he didn't miss work or wanted to take time off, he did want to change his working practices so he could be at home more often. He was forced to stay away from home if working over 50 miles away. When I was first diagnosed I was rough and he wanted to get home as much as he could. He didn't even want to get home every night but not stay out four nights a week. They were unhelpful, they didn't seem to believe I was ill

and worst of all, one of the chief's who should have had better things to do with her time, contacted my doctor without my knowledge. Luckily for her she has left as I swore that the moment he retired I would be throwing the book at her for malpractice. They made his live a misery and even gave him bad appraisals on the back of his concern for me.

Contrast that with the charity I work for, it is sometimes a physically demanding job and it is extremely responsible. They are aware of the AF and are satisfied that I am an adult and can manage it and the warfarin is no problem to them even tho I do sometimes have a risk of injury. They are amazing and I reward them by having very little time off (last episode was a bad back, nothing to do with AF) and trying to do the very best job I can. Employers should have the respect to speak to their employees with the condition who usually know far more a bout it than the company doctor ( who just hears the word heart problem).

Incidentally my partner has not been too lucky with employers, he flew through an interview and was offered his dream job with the rspca and then their doctor turned him down because he had once had an operation for a non malignant stomach tumour. He went on to complete 10 almost full years with the war graves and now retired does three very physical days gardening a week. Their loss but very upsetting for him.

I'm glad that these employers have so many excellent applicants that they can afford to lose or harrass excellent and loyal employees. Good for them that they can ignore work records, references etc and look only at the medical condition about which most of them know nothing.

[buddje in reply to zara1977]

I have sent as much info as possible to my partners employers and also invited the CEO to a meeting with relevant people because he may have to deal with Afib in the factory as it seems to be on the increase. He refused and carried on harrassing my partner (my partner has been there 28yrs and given unbroken service)

[zara1977 in reply to buddje]

There is more diagnosed af so these people need to get used to it and understand it. It is very depressing. Maybe the AF Association could take this up.

[buddje]

I think that Afib has far reaching consequences away from the illness. Families and employment suffer and it seems that the government are ignoring what is in front of them. Stress has a lot to play in the incidence of A fib in the population it seems . I hear of many younger people being affected .

[jedimasterlincoln]

Yes, which from the outside looks quite sad given the fact I'm a healthcare assistant aged just 30 when it started.

Initially scary and supportive, but soon changed to irritated and unsympathetic. My 2nd episode occurred on my way to attend a meeting to discuss my absence following my first (and cardioversion) and my 4th or 5th actually occured at work, on my 3rd 12 hour shift of the week whilst mobilising a patient post-surgery.

Some colleagues/managers try to understand, and some don't. And I also remember HR saying "if it's going to happen any time, you may as well come back to work" - before I had seen cardiology EP and discussed any long term management of the condition. Pretty sure if it happened mid-mobilisation and I harmed a patient they'd be all over me. So I wasn't prepared to come back at that point.

As it was, they offered me none-clinical desk work, but again soon got irritated by the fact my wait for ablation went from a couple of months to nearly 6.

Of course, I was of the opinion the switch to 12 hour shifts, and associated stress/lack of support generally on the ward was to blame.... the manager indirectly inferred it was lifestyle (don't smoke seldom drank cholesterol and all other bloods well boring and normal levels) and the fact my marriage had ended (4 months prior to my AF).

That didn't go down well either.

[zara1977 in reply to jedimasterlincoln]

I find so many people assume I am unfit, smoke, eat fatty foods etc so I end up doing potted guide to af even with people I hardly know!

[buddje]

I think A/Alliance should take this up with the NHS , Government etc. Its about time that the world got used to the fact that, mostly due to lifestyle and stress etc A Fib is increasing. I too have to explain to people I hardly know what A fib is- even the managing director of the company my partner works for.

[buddje]

Its about time the NHS treated ablation as urgent to allow people to be treated and get on with their lives, working or not. Some universities who deal with law degrees offer free legal advice clinics

[buddje]

Surely some high profile famous sufferer should voice their opinions

[Hidden]

After reading this post, I would like to advise you all that AF Association patient services are here to help with any queries. If you have any questions regarding employment and your AF, please do not hesitate to contact us via email. [e-mail] where we will endeavor to assist you.

[walzja3]

My workplace denied me FMLA for a second cardioversion, where they granted FMLA for the first. Does this seem right?

[PeterWh in reply to walzja3]

Not sure what FMLA is not country you are in.

[LucyaSmitt]

Honestly, I'm glad I have no problem in my current job because my past boss was terrible. I decided to find a fallback first, looked at several vacancies at jooble.org/jobs-online-engl... , and then, when everything was decided, I told my boss that I was quitting. It was a tough time, but I'm glad it's over.