Pacemakers and induction cookers.

[maryjc]

We are refubishing our village hall kitchen and the latest firm to estimate says induction cookers are a concern for people with pacemakers. How much of this is myth and how much fact? I have A fib and know I can rely on this site to give me leads. Thank you

[Beancounter Volunteer]

Hi Maryjc

I think the answer is they can interfere but only in certain circumstances, and with certain patients. However if I were refurbishing a village hall with people using it likely to be pacemaker patients, I would avoid them and opt for traditional electric hobs, or even better use gas.

Be well

Ian

[BobD Volunteer]

Hi Mary, this is an interesting point and I don't think that there is any clear evidence either way. We also had posts here a year or so ago about keyless entry and keyless starting cars and there was a much publicised case of a lady with a Nissan Micra who was allegedly made ill by her car and Nissan apparently took it back and modified it for her. I have asked Fords about this and they are not aware of a problem.

All of this could be just mischief making I know but what I do know is that some pacemakers are affected by electromagnetic interference. I was told that I would have to stop electric welding if I ever needed a PM.

All that said we are subjected to massive electromagnetic fields (emf) every day. Over head as well as underground cables create emfs which can be measured. Some years ago before LCD computer screens, the electric substation below my office in London caused such problems than none of our screens were readable due to wobble. In fact we became the first office in London to trial LCD screens which were not so affected. Various health questions were asked and some tests done and in fact the emf in the street outside was actually higher than in my office. It was just the chaotic nature of the field which made the problem.

Mobile phones have been blamed by at least one member and who am I to argue. No smoke without fire I guess and if there is an alternative why risk it. I'm sticking to my AGA thank you very much.

Bob

[maryjc in reply to BobD]

Lucky you, wish I still had mine! Thanks your comments are what I.ve heard a difficult problem since Induction hobs are so much safer with regard to burns and we can't have Gas.

[PeterWh]

I don't know much specifically of pacemakers and induction hobs but know quite a bit about EMC (electromagnetic compatibility) and the various standards and issues through my work. One major organisation that is extremely cautious about EMC and rigorously makes contractors demonstrate compliance actually installed induction hobs in their facility a couple of years ago. If there was a people issue and health I am sure that they wouldn't have installed one.

There is a lot of old and out of date knowledge out there and in particular contractors often have bees in their bonnet and are completely off piste on various different aspects and refuse to use professional engineers who know their stuff or argue with them without knowledge. That said your contractor might be right.

What I would do is contact one of the well known and reputed European manufacturers and ask them. They have all done EMC compliance testing on their products not just saying it complies with all the various standards and regulations. The top 6 countries in the world on EMC are in Europe (including the UK). You also will need to consider the effect of pacemakers themselves. I suspect that most, if not all, of the modern ones do comply and are safe. I also suspect that some pacemakers made 20 or 25 years ago were not EMC compliant, because much less was known about EMC then, but I would have thought there is very little chance that anyone still has one of those fitted as the batteries didn't last that well.

There is, I believe, the option of ceramic hobs rather than traditional electric rings. Ceramic hobs aren't quite as effieient as induction ones but they are more effieient and safer than electric hobs with rings. There are fewer ceramic hobs than 5 years ago or so but still plenty (John Lewis has 27 different ones on their website).

Personally I would never ever have anything in any public all or building that is run on gas except for a gas boiler used for water / heating.

FYI many contractors prefer the older ring hobs because that is what they know and they can buy them far cheaper and make much more money on them than modern hobs where people can see the prices readily.

When I redid my kitchen 5 years ago I got the quotes then made sure all were adjusted down so that all appliances were excluded. That way it was much easier to compare like with like. I then said to them to allow for fitting my "free issue" items. I went and bought the items myself (double oven, induction hob, under the counter freezer and cooker hood). That way I saved over £1,250 and in addition on TWO products I was given a free 5 year parts and labour guarantee whereas it at best there would have been a 1 year guarantee. Also another problem is that it used to be the case that some kitchen installers and NOT the manufacturer were responsible for the guarantee and that can cause problems and delays.

What was also interesting was that my existing free standing washing machine and also the existing tumble drier were being reused. One of the kitchen suppliers price was £500 for installing the two and all they had to do was plug them in and connect up one hose for w/m. I I would have asked anyway but had been alerted to that level of charge by a friend who had the same 2 items and his selected supplier and installer had excluded installing but had included for the space and side panels. When they were ther they said would you like us to put them in and connect. He naively said yes and when the bill came in it was £600 + VAT. He challeng d it and they said this was their standard charge. He argued back and forth a few times but ended up paying £450 + VAT because they were going to take him to court since the installer believed 25% discount off their standard rate was very generous!!!!

[reedman in reply to PeterWh]

I run a small local electrical business. Small wonder I never seem to make enough money, we charge £10 to install a washing machine in addition to standard delivery charge of £15! I must be barking mad...but I do sleep at night.

[PeterWh]

MaryJC

See my response immediately above.

[farmerwalt]

Hi Maryjc,

Just been reading all the responses to your post. The current standard pacemakers should present no problem as long as folks do as the manufacturers say and keep 60cm from the hob. In the majority of cases, even standing using the hob the pacemaker would probably be 60 cm away, since they are normally implanted just below the collar bone.

I had a pacemaker with ICD fitted last July. The problem really arises with the ICD section. It is sensitive to magnetic fields and I do have to be aware of this. If I ever require an operation the hospital would disable the ICD by placing a magnet over it. Hence the reason for avoiding strong magnets near the ICD. I do a lot of work with PA systems and now have to make sure that I keep the large loudspeakers well away from my chest area.(they have very strong magnets in them). The other thing, as Bob says, I have to avoid electric welders. Now got to get someone else to do it for me.. Not even supposed to use standard headphones since they have magnets in them. However, I do and no problems so far, especially since the non magnetic types start at around £1000.

I have a Mitsubishi Outlander with keyless entry/ignition and absolutely no problems. Also about to upgrade to the Outlander PHEV, hybrid. I had a demonstrator for a couple of days and no problems with that either.

Re: the Induction Hob. I assume you do know they require special pots and pans that do tend to be more expensive.

Hope this helps a bit more.

Regards

Walter.

[wpw62]

Pacemaker clinic told me to avoid induction jobs

[PeterWh in reply to wpw62]

I wonder whether that was based on old information or current? Hospitals are sometimes behind the time. They were wrong with the verbal instructions re my hearing aid v those in the manufacturer's instructions that they gave me in the box (which probably most would not read).

[wpw62]

Medtronic website says two foot distance from induction hobs. Can't see how you would be able to cook. Would need a very long wooden spoon lol