Good or bad, a drink or three (or more) a day? Not so obvious! Search the studies first and results before you jump to any conclusions. I will post my experience and thoughts after. It's complex and not what you might assume. Is it a trade off? Is it helpful? Is it risky?
Do you drink? How much and how often? Has it helped you to enjoy life?
Please, no moralising. Alcohol has existed since time began.
And yes, I do drink. I enjoy wine mostly but also more exotic tipples occasionally. Sljivovic anyone?
I have posted a summary of the research towards the end of the comments.
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Thunderball1
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My wife and I both have an interest in and enjoy wine. We often have a glass while making dinner togethere, which is a favorite activity for me a. Just the two of us cooking or grilling over a glass of wine, talking about anything, Guests have told us it looks like we are dancing in the kitchene when preparing the food.
We’ve also visitet vineyards a lot - spending two/three weeks testing the different wines in Napa and Sonoma. Spent a few days at the Heilbronn wine festival in Germany, spend a weekend at a winery in Valpolicella, Italy, and of course, trying new wine when travelling - Spain, Malta, Mauritius, The Maldives, Thailand, and so on. Also, we have friends as much interested in wine as us, and we get together sometimes to eat and try all the different wines everyone has brought.
We had a break for about a year or two when I couldn’t drink alcohole due to treatments, but now we enjoy a glass every now and then.
We enjoy about 1-2 glasses of wine per evening, and it’s part of QoL for us.
I do drink. I don't drink every day. When I do, I mostly drink IPAs and Wine. I'm partial to the German Pilsner and Bavarian Lagers when not imbibing in the IPAs. As for wine, I'm mostly a Cabernet guy with A Pinot Noir now and then.
I gave Pinot noir a fair chance last year for 6 months in NZ but still find it thin, sharp, and doesn't satisfy like a full-bodied shiraz/sirah or even a merlot or cabernet. Call me unrefined but I need to know the flavour/flavor is real, big, and unmissible. My senses need assurance I am not being tricked or following the crowd/trend.
Not much in my opinion. Maybe a glass or 2, 2 or 3 times on some weeks and none on others. I actually started enjoying alcohol free IPAs at home so I only drink real beer if I go out. Then watch out. My kid has his driver's permit so I have a designated driver in house.
JUST ate breakfast cereal with protein power + blueberries + SO coconut milk + Ceylon cinnamon + *Om* 10 mushroom blend + half a shot of El Perro Grande Blanco tequila.
Why wait for dinner???? 👍👍 p.s. - might not be around 🤔
I drink every evening during sundowners and I question the protestations from "experts" not to do so. I also can and do follow the scientific studies which are often questionable as to quality vs. morality. A very morality abusive anaesthetist admonished me and wrote in her op notes, which I requested, that I was an "alcoholic" before my full knockout biopsy! Such abuse. She had no good reason to say so. I admitted I drank a lot the night before (duh) and was concerned as I know it is a risk for anaesthesia. I survived
Well, to each their own....if your happy and not harming anyone else, then have at it. I think the perils of drinking are well known. I'm guilty of having a few too many. If it's interfering with your marriage, job or life in general, then you have an issue that needs addressing
I’ve cut back to 1-2 beers/week since diagnosis, and find I don’t miss it anyway. It’s just harder to process alcohol with age. Here’s a great discussion of it, will dive into it when I get time.
Interesting question, perhaps its a bit too personal 🤔.
I've always enjoyed beer, wine, whiskey, port, but not all at the same time. 😇 I don't get drunk, I am not moralistic about it either.
Every night since before being diagnosed with this beast and every night since I've enjoyed two glasses of lovely red wine with my evening meal. Followed by two glasses of whiskey.
I'm still here and if I can get a glass of whiskey whilst I'm propped up on my death bed, I'll take it 🤪
I drank a lot of whisky for a year after my wife died of leiomyosarcoma related side effects (maybe): ischemic bowel. Now I just enjoy wine. A lot. Why not?
Sorry for the loss of your mom too. Had she cancer too?Covid disruptions and such bs prevented a timely and proper diagnosis of my wife's condition in 2021. Death by morphine...Liverpool path. Fubar.
Thanks, no she didn’t have cancer (nor anyone in my family, that’s why I was in total shock at PCa diagnosis). The ischemic intestine manifested itself as a vomiting episode and doctors didn’t realize what it was for 24 hours, by then her intestines had necrosis, and it was too late. She was on morphine the last 12 hours.
They missed my wife's condition for 2 months as it increased in severity. When I finally took her to emergency they scanned and gave her no hope and operated without even a vascular surgeon present (on a Sunday night as he watched TV) for her purported blocked SMA... supplementary mesentaric artery. Imagine that if you can. Next day they put her to sleep, like a cat. They morphined her to death. It has the ugly accent: Liverpool path. If blocked arteries come from chemo and sarcoma I will never know. I have had no intelligent information from anyone including doctors.
Hooah! "An agreeable meal...a beautiful woman...and then...". Let's not think of his planned ending! But Scent of a Woman is indeed a masterpiece to savour like a good wine!
It is and a bit more. Your body needs the nutrients, calcium, Vit B etc. for the muscle, bones, and immuno system. Red wine has antioxidants and helps with breaking down the protein. None of those kill the cancer cells, but may impede it spreading. The downside is excessive amounts of both can affect the liver. That you do not need.
Oh yea they say dont heat the meat above 200C. That is silly. At that temp, the thing turns into charcoal.
Dont mind me. I am just another layman trying to make some sense of the whole thing.
Yes, I remember when eggs were going to kill everyone. Depends what they want to spread around at the time. And the food pyramid we grew up with has pretty much been thrown out.
Say you set your oven at 220 or 400. Doesnt mean you cook the meat to that level. Most likely at 140, nowhere near danger level as defined by the experts
It’s a personal decision. I enjoyed alcohol in my younger years but stopped completely, just have a tiny glass of wine with my wife at special events. I feel a lot healthier today.
We liked wine a bit too much. Easier to cease than moderate for us. I worked in booze industry and had access to the best stuff. We believe our health is optimum without booze. To each their own.👍🏻
Best quality Cognacs, Islay whiskies, Australian Syrah, NZ Sauv blancs…. all best quality…in my not limited tasting experience. I was fortunate to drink such amazing liquor however I feel far happier without the “monkey on my back.” Enjoy.
Yes, usually a drink or two most nights, sometimes more. I mix it up between beer, wine and cocktails. I do love a gin martini. If I'm going to die young, I'm going to enjoy myself until I do. If there is a need or very clear benefit in terms of reducing cancer progression, I'll stop, but that case hasn't been made to me. I welcome any related research. Carpe diem
Being from Valpolicella, my father made wine, I made beer...I must say I still enjoy a glass of red once in a while, at lunch or dinner. Even more on the rare occasion of a lunch or dinner with friends, but I cut it down massively from before. Oh and a Lagavulin on my birthday, but that's literally once per year.
About antioxidants....nevermind, don't fool yourselves, do not drink for that, drink because you enjoy it, for a simple reason: 1 pill of resveratrol, 500mg per day is a normal resveratrol supplementation...that one pill per day has got the same amount of resveratrol of 90-110 bottles of red wine (depending on the kind of wine), so the antioxidant effect of that daily glass of wine is basically zero...but it surely does wonders for the spirit! A spirit for my spirit!
If you put Alcoholic beverages in the same category as soda or fruit juice (i.e sugar laden with almost no health benefits) I think you will understand the 'benefits' of drinking. But of course they are more poisonous than that.
what I inferred was alcoholic beverages are simply soft drinks with alcohol added. Both soda and alcoholic beverages are very sugary. Wine beer etc just is sugar with alcohol. If you observe regular drinkers you will see they are generally overweight and rarely fit.
One of the five precepts of Buddhism is to abstain from intoxicants that cloud the mind. Alcohol does not kill brain cells but it can cause intellectual impairment, headaches, memory loss, slowed thinking, slurred speech, and trouble with balance and coordination. It also may prevent formation of new bain cells. Furthermore alcoholism can lead to serious health problems such as cirrosis of the liver, not to mention problems with friends and family and increased likelihood of accidents. I can respect the Buddhist precept, although I am not Buddhist. However, I enjoy drinking cold beer and wine to limited extent. It has the benefit of loosening fear and encouraging interaction.
I have been called a party poop, hi glad to meet ya. With meds and supps getting proccessed thru my system already - I'll settle on a green( hemp protein )smothie. For real !
I briefly glazed over something about beer taken in conjuction with alt supps, do to the fermentation process in beer . but many cancer research papers warn on alcohol consumption , do to many factors. I don't drink alcohol, , But I know a few 6 packers that are healthy , so go figure, This is not a good place to discuss to much other than the official main concensus, alternative (information) is barely acknowledged for what it is , that being only information even when you provide sources. I was told in the comment sect to stop wasting peoples time so kinda tells me everything I need to know. Maybe I should have a few before posting, lol . So everyone here you are invited( of your on choosing) to Spill the wine party. youtube.com/watch?v=4-Xs7NK...
my wife and I have a number of beers on Friday evenings, but we blow a number or 3 on a daily basis. That’s it that’s all, it mellows out the day and gives s a laugh now and again. I get itThunderball1, it’s your life , enjoy it!!!
Most every night, sometimes a Manhattan or two, sometimes a glass of wine, margarita, mojitos...you get the idea (I have a extensie bar cabinet at home, much to my wife's dismay though she enjoys having a drink or two with me!). I will say it is not the days of my youth, getting drunk, not remembering the next morning...though truth in advertising, that was not often but still, too much. Someone was watching over me, I really shouldn't be here when In think about those "Glory Days"
Speaking of truth in advertising, my motto is always be truthful with my medical team, so I tell them the same thing. To date over the ten years I've been on this journey, not one has said "stop."
One of the first things the MD Anderson dietician told me is "Stop drinking alcohol because alcohol is a known carcinogen" (to which I thought TOO LATE!).
Yes, I drink alcohol as before the cancer and I know of know ill effects; however, as in all things, don't take my word for anything! I'm an individual and so are you. Proceed with appropriate caution. MD Anderson is certainly correct; alcohol is a carcinogen.
FWIW, approximately 3 drinks/night approximately 5 nights/week.
Sounds fair enough. As for it being a carcinogen...maybe...so is processed meat (bacon, salami, etc) as published 10 years ago...but that's not meaningful unless the category of carcinogen is given. Meat is nowhere as carcinogenic as smoking and both are so-called "carcinogens". The docs don't ever tell you or admit or explain that!! Why??
A person learns to rationalize all on their own. "Rationalizations are more important than sex. Know why I say that? Try to get through an entire day without a really juicy rationalization" - with apologies to the movie The Big Chill.
(Keep in mind I still drink as before the cancer.)
I gave up daily beer and wine 23 years ago as part of low carb diet. I switched to scotch. My wife and I have a 5 pm appt with our daily alcohol. Until the diagnosis in October, I was having a double. I have stepped back to a measured jigger since then.
I stopped completely a few weeks ago when I got hepatitis from an allergy to Bactrim (6 days in the hospital, jaundice and fatigue.) I can't wait to get back to my regular one a day. BTW, my initial response to Regulix was an elevation of liver enzymes that were concerning my MO. She switched me to Eligard, but the hepatitis hit before we could get liver enzymes went back down, so that is still an unknown.
I stopped drinking in 2019 after 45 years. During that long period, I generally inserted regular periods without alcohol--3,4,5 days per week. On the days when I did drink, I often tied one on, mostly beer/ales. I never drank during daytime or every single day, but it did nag at me that I enjoyed my drinking days too much, and I knew it would be difficult to give up that excellent ale! But I did in 2019 when I made big changes in consumption. I feel good for having done it. When the PCa is gone to my and the doc's satisfaction (unlikely), I'll raise a Guinness or a Smithwicks or maybe an excellent German dark. Maybe two of each that evening. Yes, I'll wait till evening. And none the following few days.
Diagnosed almost 2 yrs ago, Stage 4 metastatic. Social life oftentimes includes some alcohol. Had chemo early on and asked a good friend of mine (on our usual friday happy hour get together) to be my sheriff. Stop me after two old fashioneds. He tried his best, but I would sneak in a 3rd one at times. I decided early on after diagnosis that I was going to continue living my life, enjoying the things I always had (such as a few drinks with the crew), and would not look back on any decision. If I became terminally ill after a few years and after giving up "all my fun", I would be mad at myself. I do feel moderation is helpful but total abstinence? Not for this good ole Irish Catholic boy.... Best to all of you warriors and family members.
half a dozen beers on Friday… couple of joints a day for sanity for my wife and I. My Medical oncologist said whatever works for you… and then I told her about micro dosing mushrooms… she asked about them and said hadn’t tried them yet.
I take mushrooms - Turkeytail, Reishi, Chaga, Lion's Mane, Maitake and Cordyceps. Tell that to your oncologist I told mine she wasn't impressed , when she asked if I was taking anything else I told her Fenbendazole she said I don't think I'm the Doctor for you, really no joke. That was when I learned to keep my mouth shut and keep it simple with her. Now she's ok with me. Still taking the Fenben and many more , if I told her she would blow her stack again. But hey go along to get along.
😂 that’s great, unless she’s really good looking, I would’ve opted for another mo.
I also love a nice Cab and or Pinot on a lighter day, maybe a little too much but as most have pointed, I’m going to enjoy my years on this earth. Also love Napa, Sonoma n Paso Robles. Looking to venture to France Italy n Spain as I’ve had quite a few nice wines from the regions not to mention the food is absolutely delicious…
I do believe one should enjoy a good meal and If one chooses a fav drink. Have you ever tried Elderberry Wine hard to find good stuff there is a wine maker out in Pa that sells it. I forgot the name of the place. They say it's good, I started growing elderberry and drink sugar free elderberry liquid just love it, grew up on it. Thyme honey from Greece some studies suggest good for PC. not a magic potion but the taste is awesome . I make some eldertea from the flowers and berries not bad. I the summer I pick and eat the ripe raw berries. Grow my own blueberries So yes Many ways to enjoy life.
Absolutely love elderberry n pomegranates, grew up w both n have them daily w my keto all nuts n berry cereal. Haven’t tried elderberry wine but have tried pomegranate along w pineapple 🍷 in Maui, a little too sweet for my liking as I love a dry silky fruit forward Cab usually from Napa/ Sonoma but have had great Italian/ French varietals that have the same silky taste.👅 I’ve read thyme honey n ginger have quite a few anti cancer properties n maybe will try it as I like honey 🍯 also. Thanks for the tips n salute 🍷…
I used to drink wine , I like French veritals particularly , having had much exposure to them. Bloody Mary’s, tequila silver shots.
Oddly , a couple years ago I stopped drinking wine - alcohol nearly completely …. I have had a substantial wine cellar at times. Seems like my adt or its SEs have managed to cancel out my ability to get drunk or even taste wine properly nowadays …or even tipsy. Go figure. Bummer ..
Picture is my wife , the hammer, and myself enjoying a bottle of Puligny Montrachet with imported Italian / French charcuterie. Out the window is Monterey Bay where waves come right up to the resort and whales can be seen feeding out in front of us.
At this point in my life , I’m not worried about alcohol consumption being harmful.
I rarely drink alcohol. Toking home grown herb more my speed. I like grapey-good, fizzy lambrusco wine. Not a sophisticate palate here at all! I don't drink beer except at a (rare) party, or watching the Super Bowl with chili con carne and chips. I go for Heinekens with the slightly tilted "happy e's" in the name !!! 😎
Herb , around this part of California …has kinda fallen off for the easier to use … WAY less expensive … super powerful , hemp derived, Delta 8 gummies. HHC, thcV, thc9 etc. unlike marijuana, it’s legal federally nation wide and no stash limit penalties. We call delta 8 “ laugh factory “ .
Some local states will probably go after it eventually, but it’s mostly good now. Prolly always available in recreational states. Funny how times change. I know of growers sitting on mounds of product from the co-op growing days. Even they like the delta 8 gummies. Probably more a change of pace than anything. The local recreational product stores are foaming at the mouth over it. Can’t blame them I guess.
My problem (is a PCa related issue hence the post) is that although I like the taste of alcohol (it's not that tasteless although the pure stuff is not at hand!). Especially in wine, the taste is key. But also in mixed spirits/cocktails. However I'm no whiskey or gin snob. Since my wife died (with sarcoma), I have explored whiskey but unless I win the lottery I'll stick to my home country and Bushmills. I really do drink for the buzz however; taste is an existential bonus.
Studies suggest a relation between booze and PCa. But see recent article posted previously and later. it's not simple or definite (as is all proper interpretations of scientific attempts at objectivity). Hence this post.
It takes three drinks in short order to get me there and then of course comes the challenge! To stop.
Question to you experts all, do you drink for the buzz or relaxation...or for the flavor? If the former, how much buzz? If just the latter, lucky you!
I have multiple Captain and Diet Coke drinks mostly every Saturday while sitting in front of wood stove watching my Maple Leafs seemingly waste another year with some top end talent. I could keep talking about that mess but not what this topic is about.
Sljivovic, Plum Brandy? Brings back memories of my crazy Russian stepfather & the wodka parties. Personally I enjoy a Merlot but it does not like me so these days a glass of Rose with dinner.
Visiting the Philippines at the moment & sufering from a red horse beer hangover. My advice is stick to San Migel beer here.
My wife was from Serbia so introduced me to Sljivovic. She died with sarcoma 2 years ago. I love that stuff...hard, sharp, and no prisoners taken. Tonight I am enjoying Bushmills again after a hiatus. Next week I will try to procure some sljivovic and celebrate a birthday. My new best friend is from Philippines. She enjoys anything! Which part are you visiting? What's disagreeable about merlot?
Sorry to hear about your wife but good to see you have moved on. We are in Davao at the moment visiting my wifes family & just came from Puerto Princesa & have a little beach holiday area there. Merlot leaves me fealing out of it next day but I love the stuff. My dear old step father called sljivovic slippery bitch, he was a hard man that went through the patriotic war & never forgot what he had to see. What is Bushmills? Try Tanduay rum or coconut wine when over this way.
Here is a summary of some research of the effect of alcohol on PCa. It is from UpToDate, an excellent resource for peer-reviewed summaries of peer-reviewed research. It was current as of July 2023 when I subscribed for a week ($50) and downloaded various articles. I would share this whole PDF with you if I knew how (a files section?).
The article shared earlier in comments by timotur is also excellent:
This has much good info and shows the contradictory results if you dig into it. Their conclusions are still biased to the "don't drink if you have PCa" side, though. What else is a doc going to tell you? Smoke?? Many do!!!
"Epidemiological Studies Indicating No Link between Alcohol Consumption and the Risk for PCa.
The geographical distribution of epidemiological studies that found a weak or no correlation between alcohol intake and risk of being diagnosed with PCa is relatively narrower than those describing strong association (Figure 2). The latter is validated by more worldwide, South American, Asian, and European studies. Yet, the observations that deny the link deserve close attention."
Despite the limitations discussed here, the link between alcohol consumption and the development of PCa is strong. Still, PCa development depends critically on other factors, notably diet, smoking, age, race (black men have higher incidence and mortality than white men), physical and sexual activity, stress, obesity, family history of PCa, and chronic prostatitis [229 – 231 ] (Figure 5A). For instance, the risk of PCa associated with the pro- inflammatory potential of the diet is accelerated in low-to-moderate alcohol drinkers [232]. In addition, alcohol intake was directly associated with PCa risk among individuals with lower dietary fiber intake and low folate intake [233,234]. Next, dietary preferences may cardinally vary according to geographical area. For instance, the Mediterranean diet (high intake of vegetables, legumes, fresh fruit, non-refined cereals, nuts, and olive oil, with moderate consumption of fish and dairy, low intake of red meats, and infrequent use of red wine in low dosage) was associated with a low incidence of PCa and low mortality rate in patients without metastasis [235–237]. PCa risk is positively correlated with the number of drinks and frequent episodes of binge drinking. Individuals who have first-degree family members with PCa should con- sider moderate, infrequent alcohol use. Patients diagnosed with any stage of PCa should consider quitting drinking since, even at a moderate level of consumption, EtOH and its metabolites alone are enough to accelerate tumor growth and enhance the metastatic potential of cancer cells. Under such circumstances, the contribution of other risk fac- Biomolecules 2022, 12, 375 15 of 25 tors is negligible (Figure 5B). The same strategy should be employed for PCa patients after prostatectomy Biomolecules 2022, 12, 375 16 of 25 diseases confirmed by transrectal ultrasonography or digital examination. This limits the statistical power to detect significant correlations between control and PCa groups. The ideal control group would be those screened for PCa but not histologically confirmed. Many observations did not consider the sick-quitter effect. There are always patients considering themselves non-drinkers because they have previously quit drinking alcohol due to a non-cancer-related condition. Additionally, as with all studies that rely on self- reporting by participants, misreporting (either intentionally or inadvertently) of the level of alcohol consumption cannot be avoided. There is a chance that high consumers were falsely categorized as moderate consumers, leading to an underestimation of the risks. Misunderstanding of the “standard drink” may also contribute to misreporting. The standard drink (or one alcoholic drink equivalent), according to US National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, contains roughly 14 g of pure EtOH, which is found in 12 ounces (~355 mL) of regular beer, which is usually about 5% alcohol; 5 ounces (~150 mL) of wine, which is typically about 12% alcohol; 1.5 ounces (~45 mL) of distilled spirits, which is about 40% alcohol. However, retrospective consideration is prone to recall bias. In many cases, especially social drinking, patients can not precisely count the actual amount of alcohol consumed within a week. Therefore, the number of drinks per week may vary within studies, depending on the subjective calculations of patients, which, in turn, may affect the accuracy of statistical analysis in both control and PCa groups. Extensive international studies are required to evaluate the impact of specific beverages on PCa development, lest we miss the forest for the trees. In particular, there is insufficient evidence to conclude that moderate drinking of wine (either red or white) could slow PCa growth or metastasis. The potential antioxidant effect of wine’s polyphenols can be outweighed by the tumor-promoting mechanisms of EtOH described here. In the meantime, epidemiological data suggest that individuals consuming wine in moderation are at low risk for BPH. Lastly, serum PSA data should be cautiously evaluated for patients regularly drinking alcohol at a high level because it can be affected by alcohol intake immediately prior to testing and by a general history of alcohol consumption. Additionally, the observed level of male sex hormones is irrelevant to the alcoholism-associated risk and progression of PCa.
When it comes to eating and drinking, moderation is the key. IMHO, drinking every night probably leads to health issues in the long run. I believe the science supports this.
It's all about QOL in my opinion. And there are as many opinions on Quality as there are people. Many will agree on a basic definition... but the devil lurks in the details! It's the doctors who largely have a conflict of interest here on the issue of QOL. For them Progression Free Survival is often all that matters even if that means a dull and indifferent existence. What's the point, eh? Must watch Life of Brian again. Or Monty Python's Meaning of Life?
I was wondering about this question myself: will being on ADT or various other treatments eliminate the pleasure of wine and other libations from my life? Like others who've responded, it's part of my and my wife's culture. Our wine cellar contains over 800 bottles of wine from all over. That's a whole other story. Like others, I've also cut back on the amount I consume, finding 1 to 2 glasses with dinner is just about right, but not every day. I'm more easily affected by alcohol, but that has been developing for a while and can be attributed to age (72). Anyway, cheers all!
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Best to all of you warriors and family members.
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