HIPPOCRATES--400BC--350BC is referred to as the father of medicine.

[Lrv44221]

"Let food be your medicine and medicine be your food."

IMHO, along with Hippocrates, food is a powerful medicine that can both cause and cure disease. Nearly all disease is caused by inflammation. One way to remove inflammation, is to eat foods, that are anti-inflammatory, plant rich, high in fiber, and low in fat and sugar. (Prostate cancer can be fueled by sugar and fat). I have stopped sugar, (very hard as I love my twinkies), flour, dairy and processed foods.......Nutrient dense foods can help heal along with the advice of your oncologist, urologist and other medical professionals. 🦊🦊

[BB_1]

I agree. Was on my cinnamon sticky buns splurge last two weeks. Bad habit. Good this week.

[Tall_Allen]

Fortunately, we have come a long way from Hippocrates in the 4th century BC. You confuse cause and effect and make a sweeping and incorrect generalization when you state, "Nearly all disease is caused by inflammation". In fact, inflammation is the effect of many diseases (e.g., lymphoma causes lymphedema, not the other way around). Inflammation is often the body's first response to disease and is a necessary step in invoking an immune response. It is not always a good idea to use anti-inflammatories. There is a balance to be struck. Randomized clinical trials have found that anti-inflammatories have no benefit for prostate cancer.

You also make a common mistake (a logic error assuming symmetry) when you think that cutting back on sugar or fat can help with prostate cancer. There is no evidence for that assertion. In fact, cancer cells grow rapidly and are voracious feeders. If you don't supply one nutrient, they switch to another, even cannibalizing healthy cells to get their energy.

"Nutrient dense foods can help heal.." Well, if you eliminate fats and sugars, that only leaves carbs and proteins. And if you prescribe "plant rich, high in fiber" foods, they are the opposite of "nutrient dense foods." So, which is it, and what is the evidence? In fact, many men with advanced prostate cancer are taking ADT and experience a metabolic slow down. The same amount of "nutrient dense" food, contributes to fat accumulation, which taxes the body. If you want to give dietary advice, perhaps you should give advice on restricting caloric intake, while increasing exercise.

[maley2711 in reply to Tall_Allen]

thank you !!!!!!!

[MrG68 in reply to Tall_Allen]

 ‘…The same amount of "nutrient dense" food, contributes to fat accumulation, which taxes the body….’

Does it? From my experience of Keto I actually found the exact opposite. I really struggled to stop losing weight. Also, on keto, my psa started to go up exponentially. I can only put on weight with carbs with a high glycemic load and sugars. My psa slowed down only when I increased body fat. Everything else was spot on except the psa.

Everyone’s different I suppose. But one things for sure, it’s never as black and white as what trials show.

[Tall_Allen in reply to MrG68]

You are indeed unusual. Most men experience fat accumulation on ADT.

[Lrv44221 in reply to Tall_Allen]

TA, I wanted to tell you how much I appreciate and respect your drug advice.

If ever anyone needs help In that area you are so helpful

I wish you and I could be “helping” advocates in here. with your knowledge and mine I feel we could help so many.

Since I have had cancer, I understand the fear and frustration that accompanied my daily life

I will not talk about it because I just don’t want to go there again.

Please know you’re helping so many and I personally admire that

I too want to help people the only way I know: through life style, exercise, sleep food, nutrients and a passion to heal 🦊

[Tall_Allen in reply to Lrv44221]

I respect the urge to help others. I know I can't provide any new data, I can just pass along what other scientists have discovered. If you are serious, I implore you to challenge what you think you know, using the tools of modern science. You seem to have been filled with a lot of misinformation. There is no shame in getting it wrong; the only shame is when you don't correct yourself. Start by acknowledging that all cancers are different, and that platitudes may be fine for hypothesis generation, but only empirical testing can provide actionable data. Be humble. If you have a hypothesis that goes beyond the best data, state it as such.

[Lrv44221 in reply to MrG68]

I absolutely agree. It’s different than trials show 🦊

[Hidden in reply to MrG68]

how were you able to increase body fat?

[MrG68 in reply to Hidden]

I had to come off the keto diet. Once I included sugars and high glycemic foods the weight came back. I believe it depends on your state of your metabolism. Everyone has differing metabolisms and experience different effects. Medications also add to the mix. You have to see what works for you individually regardless of what anyone says because you are unique.

[Lrv44221 in reply to MrG68]

I absolutely agree

Because I don’t know anything about pc drugs perhaps they too have an effect on metabolic Processing?

I’m so glad you’re doing what works for you. Each one of us reaches a point knowing what we need

Keep on fighting 🦊

[Gl448 in reply to Lrv44221]

If you don’t know anything about PCa drugs and how they might affect metabolism, perhaps you should research it before you ride on in here and start spewing bad diet advice and myths about PCa metabolism.

PCa might be an entirely different best than whatever cancer you allegedly had

[Hidden in reply to MrG68]

so Mr G. When you say sugar and high glycemic, are we talking cake and ice cream. I’m wondering if there could be a more calorie dense food or smoothy that doesn’t shoot your blood sugar through the roof, tastes good, gives you protein and also sugar but more like a frozen banana blueberries strawberries protein powder with a blend of cranberry, pomigranite and unsweetened green tea.

[MrG68 in reply to Hidden]

Well on Keto, its no sugar and no carbs. Carbs like broccoli are allowed because they have fiber and its indigestible. Eventually this shifts your metabolism to oxidize fat and protein. Your body creates the glucose it requires for your brain from the protein by gluconeogenesis. So you can do just fine without sugars and carbs.

I think the key take away is everyone has different metabolisms which react differently. For me it was extreme weight loss. Put some medications in the mix, which everyone reacts differently to, and you're an absolute N=1.

By sugars and high glycemic LOAD carbs, were talking pasta, potatoes, breads. Do a search for a list. Sugars are things like honey, fructose in fruits and even sugar itself.

I'm not eating cream cakes. But I'm defo having the odd treat like icecream.

[Hidden in reply to MrG68]

Thank you, I know it’s pretty darn hard to be perfect with eating!

[mrscruffy]

My cancer is caused by a genetic defect, your advice has no value to me

[AnnieAppleseed in reply to mrscruffy]

There are several studies that have shown lifestyle changes benefit those with genetic mutations also. Look into pubmed.gov

[Gl448]

Please just stop.

Hippocrates never said that. It’s a phrase that didn’t start popping up until the 20th century.

Maybe you should research before misquoting ancient “doctors”

[PabloK in reply to Gl448]

he may not have said that but Victor Bruno did say "You are what you eat, said a wise old man, Lord if that is true, I'm a garbage can"

shalom

[Gl448 in reply to PabloK]

I don’t eat garbage. I’ve eaten fairly healthy my entire life, including avoiding sugar and simple carbs the last three decades, and I still got aggressive metastatic prostate cancer, so these fluffy posts about just eat a healthy diet and you could improve/cure your cancer, especially when posted by people who haven’t had prostate cancer, aren’t helpful, IMHO.

Cheers.

[Lrv44221 in reply to Gl448]

I know and I think it’s awful. I wish I knew what else to do.🦊

My husband has stage 4 pc too and it’s so difficult we have changed our diet exercise take nutrients use oncologist and urologist ADT etc

[Gl448 in reply to Lrv44221]

What kind of cancer did YOU have?

So your husband still needs ADT and what other treatments?

Your diet and “feel good about life” approach hasn’tput him into an 18 year remission? Hasn’t cured him?

I need to know.

[Lrv44221 in reply to PabloK]

shalom and thanks for telling me about victor bruno

[Gl448 in reply to Lrv44221]

LMAO.

Victor Buono not Bruno. And another misquote, or partial quote, actually

That’s but one line from a very long COMEDIC poem that the very obese Buono would recite on Johnny Carson. I suggest you Google the whole poem.

Buono was a comedian and actor and fancied himself a gourmet chef

He also died at the ripe old age of 43 from a heart attack.

But Yes, a joke by a long dead comedian who passed from a heart attack at age 43 is such a great foundation for supporting dietary advice in an advanced prostate cancer discussion forum.

Speaking of cancer… What kind of cancer did you have? I must’ve missed your answer. I’m sure you’ve seen me ask it at least once by now.

[EdBacon in reply to Gl448]

Ask yourself this: how many people come on to this forum and say "I will not talk about it" when mentioning their cancer? What's the point of being here unless you are promoting something?

[maley2711]

how do you define inflammation...scientifically define that is.

[maley2711]

YOU have PCa?? You imply that IMHO.

[Lrv44221 in reply to maley2711]

I’m sorry I didn’t know IMHO meant I hadn’t pc. I thought it meant in my humble opinion

[Gl448 in reply to Lrv44221]

I think it was sarcasm or humor? IMHO

What kind of cancer did you have? You’re female, so it wasn’t prostate cancer, and you said it wasn’t breast cancer.

Enlighten us, which cancer did you manage to beat for 18 years by not having chemo or surgery? What treatments did you use? How are they relevant to men with advanced prostate cancer?

[MrG68 in reply to Gl448]

You know what I find strange? If someone claims to have recovered from cancer, regardless to the methods leading to their recovery, why wouldn't you be open to listen to what they had to say... regardless if you believe them or not.

Just saying.

[Gl448 in reply to MrG68]

What I find strange is that some people are so desperate for a miracle here that they'll take anything anyone says at face value with nothing more than vague hints at some miracle diet.

I am open to hear how anyone staved off cancer with no chemo or surgery for 18 years, but I want specifics and how whatever they did applies to those of us in this group who are going to die from prostate cancer. It saddens me that others want nothing more than an unvalidated/unexplained claim.

[MrG68 in reply to Gl448]

Well I could be wrong but I think there’s a few AnnieAppleseed postings here that claim the same. Maybe its worth you checking that out.

annieappleseedproject.org/

[Gl448 in reply to MrG68]

”From its inception the Annie Appleseed Project decided to Challenge the Existing treatment paradigm, to Question the existing research methods and subjects, and to Propose new directions for both ending with true Integrative Oncology. Thus the program name Cheqpt, designed to bring complementary, alternative therapies to the mainstream as soon as may be, while serving as a place where all ideas are scrutinized.”

Reeks of quackery to me.

But if it helps you, more power to you.

[Lrv44221 in reply to Gl448]

you know, you have a right to think the way you do, as do they 🦊

[Gl448 in reply to Lrv44221]

Indeed.

What type of cancer did you manage to cure without chemo or surgery?

Why are you avoiding this question? What are you hiding?

Did you take any pharmaceuticals?

Did you take radiation?

You’ve suggested or outright stated that juicing and feel good stuff like painting and helping children are all it took to stave off cancer for 18 years.

I’m sure many of us would find your claims more appropriate to this forum if we knew how it all related to our advanced prostate cancer. If you had something silly like a basal cell carcinoma of the epidermis, just stop these claims.

[EdBacon in reply to Gl448]

You said:

”From its inception the Annie Appleseed Project decided to Challenge the Existing treatment paradigm, to Question the existing research methods and subjects, and to Propose new directions for both ending with true Integrative Oncology. Thus the program name Cheqpt, designed to bring complementary, alternative therapies to the mainstream as soon as may be, while serving as a place where all ideas are scrutinized.”Reeks of quackery to me. But if it helps you, more power to you. "

Makes me wonder how much Annie (and others like her) is making off the forum. Maybe it's all charity. At least she's honest about why she's here. I do appreciate that.

[EdBacon in reply to Gl448]

I don't think we should "be open" to rediculous claims like someone living 18 years with stage 4 PCa or any other "cancer" with no proven treatments. First of all, what are the statistical odds of that? Pretty much zero. That's an amazing thing. I would suggest that anyone making such a claim redact all private information and post their complete medical history so we can all see it.

My neighbor across the street explained to me how yoga cures cancer. Another neighbor told me his sister has already cured two people and I should go see her. I'm not open to any of that. The "alternatives" people don't think clinical trials are important, just some anecdotal stories we can't get any detailed information on. They have excuses like "Oh there's no money in it so they can't do trials" when the reality is there is plenty of money in "alternative non-treatments". I know someone who will likely have to file for bankruptcy for her late husband's quack doctor bills. The quacks don't want to waste THEIR money on clinical trials with "treatments" that don't work, but they're happy to waste yours.

[EdBacon in reply to Gl448]

Probably used SOC treatments, maybe surgery for a cure and now promoting alternatives used since then as the reason. Lots of people do this, some write books on it that are popular with people who don't know much about cancer.

[LongevityAT]

I agree that past lifestyle can lead to many diseases (the standard American diet) and that the best message for anyone, regardless of age or current disease, is to eat a healthy, balanced diet, to exercise and wouldn't be bad to throw in meditation.

Longevity is a combination of our health span and our life span. I didn't focus on healthier eating until a few years ago and wish I had sooner. However, I'm dialed in now, will deal with my current situation and go for another 30 years. And they will be 30 years I can enjoy mentally and physically. Primarily because I'm investing in my future through diet, exercise/yoga and meditation.

[Lrv44221 in reply to LongevityAT]

yes you can!!! I should have posted some meals and food ideas yesterday

Diet lifestyle exercise sleep and nutrients are so important with any disease

[AnnieAppleseed]

Good start, with cancer we need more. There are many complementary therapies, lifestyle changes and holistic approaches. I like to mix and match. Working for me, now 30 years out from original breast cancer (no chemo, radiation or hormones) and 4 years since follicular lymphoma. I founded annieappleseedproject.org

[Lrv44221 in reply to AnnieAppleseed]

great to know you

I agree. I had cancer, not breast, and was told if I didn’t let them do surgery and chemo I would be dead in 6 months

I didn’t do any and here I am alive 18 years later

[Gl448 in reply to Lrv44221]

Great! I’m going to stop my chemo and ADT and follow your magic diet to cure my cancer instead.

Can’t wait to live another18 years by just eating better.

[MrG68 in reply to Gl448]

Well it worked for Lrv44221, didn't it?

Thing is, why not just do it anyway? It's not like there's any downside to eating healthily now, is there.

[Gl448 in reply to MrG68]

Did it work? We don't know anything about this claim beyond it wasn't breast cancer and it somehow beat cancer without chemo or surgery. What was the treatment? High fiber foods? Low carb foods? No medications at all? And I don't mean the misquote about food is medicine and medicine is food.

Eat healthy all you want, it won't hurt, but save the sensational claims unless you have something more than hearsay to back it up, and especially if you frequently post inaccurate information while claiming to be a college educated expert in the field.

[MrG68 in reply to Gl448]

Well this is my point, isn’t it? As you say we don’t know the details but you’re dismissing it.

Anyway regardless, I’m happy to consider no lose options. Adding something with benefits looks like a good option to me. Even if it doesn’t win the war, worst case it might help to win a few battles along the way.

[Lrv44221 in reply to MrG68]

yes keep winning the battle

[Gl448 in reply to Lrv44221]

What battle did you win?

[EdBacon in reply to MrG68]

"Well this is my point, isn’t it? As you say we don’t know the details but you’re dismissing it."

I always dismiss extraordinary claims that come with no evidence other than someone's story. The burden of proof lies with the one making the claims, not on the one asking for proof. It's possible that this person got into a long-term remission or cure with SOC treatments and could have been in the same good health after 18 years without doing anything special. That's fine, just state that so we all know. Certainly anyone with stage 4 anything is not getting 18 years with juicing, low sugar diet and other non-treatments. We just have to throw that out as pure BS.

[Lrv44221 in reply to Gl448]

oh my goodness. I didn’t mean to imply I did it easier

I did massive juicing ,no sugar and my physicians were homeopathic

So I took homeopathic remedies

It was a long tough fight

[Gl448 in reply to Lrv44221]

What kind of cancer was it? What stage was it?

Cutting sugar kills prostate cancer is a myth...

[Tall_Allen in reply to Lrv44221]

homeopathy=placebo effect. Belief helps, even if you ignore science, as you did. Sugar pills would have been less expensive. Here's the science, as described by the NHS:

england.nhs.uk/wp-content/u...

[Gl448 in reply to Lrv44221]

Homeopathic physicians and homeopathic remedies?

Can you provide details on those remedies? Long tough fight or not, your surviving a 6 month death sentence with them is nothing short of miraculous.

I don’t know what kind of cancer you had, but maybe those treatments could work the same miracle for some of us here. You’re in a cancer forum where everyone openly shares their diagnosis and treatments, would you please do the same for us?

[EdBacon in reply to Gl448]

When pressed, they will always say "Oh we're not saying you shouldn't do SOC treatments, just do all this unproven diet/supplements stuff in addition." If there was nobody challenging them, it would be "You don't need any of those terrible SOC treatments that just have awful side effects and make doctors and Big Pharma rich and put toxins in your body" Lots of people on this forum don't even have cancer, just here to promote so-called "natural" treatments and make posts that subltly undermine the SOC.

[MrG68 in reply to EdBacon]

Well that’s one way of looking at it. Another way is they’re trying to help.

[MrG68 in reply to EdBacon]

just curious, why do you believe they are doing that? What do you believe their end goal? To sell memberships to juicing websites or something?

[Gl448 in reply to MrG68]

Some people are just zealots. They have a belief and feel called upon to push their agenda or cult ideas or religion on everyone else. Knock on your door uninvited or post flowery generalities of miraculous healing on forums where people are dying and desperate to here some magical cure

Food zealots are pretty common. Organic, juicing, vegan, locally sourced, blah, they’re not happy with their lifestyles unless they’re proselytizing everyone who’s not.

I’m all for healthy food choices, but I’m not going let someone blow sunshine up our backsides claiming that juicing cured their cancer without more details.

[EdBacon in reply to Gl448]

You said:

"Some people are just zealots. They have a belief and feel called upon to push their agenda or cult ideas or religion on everyone else. Knock on your door uninvited or post flowery generalities of miraculous healing on forums where people are dying and desperate to here some magical cure"

I think that's true. I also think that there's a money interest in this as well for some. There are quite a few who come on the forum who obviously don't have prostate cancer, many only posting about alternative treatment research with mouse studies and similar things, with the occasional subtly critical post about the standard of care, side effects of treatment, greedy doctors. Big Pharma, etc. without ever offering anything else and never sharing about their own cancer/treatments unless it's some wild claim about how they went 18 years with juicing and low sugar diets. (saw a bio here today that said "nothing to see here"}

I know of at least one member who was getting customers through private messaging and there are others who are clearly advertising here. We just have to beware like you say and not believe these wild claims. Stick with proven treatments.

[Lrv44221 in reply to MrG68]

absolutely do everything you think might help

[Lrv44221 in reply to MrG68]

thanks I just want to help 🦊

[Lrv44221 in reply to Gl448]

oh no. Please don’t stop what you’re doing. I changed my diet, juiced, exercised

Stopped stressing, went to several physicians and used nutricuicals and homeopathic remedies

I also started helping sick children, went back to painting and believed I was going to heal because someone somewhere needed me that I had no idea about 🦊

[Gl448 in reply to Lrv44221]

What kind of cancer did you have?

What stage?

Why won’t you answer this?

[EdBacon in reply to Gl448]

"Can’t wait to live another18 years by just eating better."

And if you don't, it will be all YOUR fault for doing it wrong. And you can bet that won't be part of the cherry-picked "data set" either!

[BB_1]

Going organic and eliminating processed foods is plus to life style changes. Thank glyphosate that is in our food chain, from the cereal you eat to the water you drink. Glyphosate needs to be banned.

[Lrv44221 in reply to BB_1]

you’re absolutely correct. Eating whole not processed food is such a plus

So many ways to eat tasty meals that aren’t processed. I think I might post some meal ideas to help people I don’t eat large meals because I am a grazer. not saying it’s good but that’s how I eat

A simple little “ meal “ is diced onions, olives tomatoes,cucumbers,avocado and hard boiled eggs. If I have any salmon left over I might add that to the meal

[Gl448 in reply to Lrv44221]

Do you consider juicing to be whole and unprocessed foods?

Haven’t you stripped away all that healthy fiber you preach about needing when you juice something? Aren’t you processing the carbs into a much higher absorption rate which causes insulin spikes?

Maybe that mystery cancer you had didn’t feed on sugar like you claim prostate cancer does…you really should clarify what cancer you had so we can put proper perspective on your advice.

[MrG68]

Twinkies eh? 🤣

[SViking]

I don’t believe any of us will beat our cancer with healthy diet and lots of exercise. But I follow that pattern because I am concerned about my overall health and potential heart disease that is sometimes triggered by the meds we take. Eating a primarily plant based organic healthy diet with lots of vigorous exercise makes me feel better which dramatically enhances my overall sense of well-being and most assuredly mitigates side effects from our meds. And that has to count for something.