Opinion on muscles: On the Lupron... - Advanced Prostate...

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Opinion on muscles

Fightinghard profile image
Fightinghard

On the Lupron + Xtandi train. Wondering if increased exercise + weights can still build muscles?

Anyone able to increase strength?

50 Replies

You can increase strength, but not usually muscle size. And it takes work--real hard work.And certain supplements---L-Arginine for Nitric Oxide, Creatine, and O2 supplemental, as starters.

Nalakrats

Thanks Nal. Seems like my legs especially keep losing strength even with a daily hour walk. So I am going to try hitting the gym.

Hope it helps

If you can. Work in 15 min of rowing and 15 min of stairmaster.

As Nalakrats said...hard work and you should see results.

I am headed to the gym starting tomorrow.

Good for you...if you belong to Planet Fitness the black membership gives access to the hydromassage bed. That is the bomb after a good hard workout.

I don't want to get into a back-forth with members on this site...but I do believe that a standard step is 8 inches wide with a 6 in rise....which results in a incline of 60%.

I recommend working in the stair master and the rowing machine, maybe alternating days, along with the treadmill because they both work the legs and hit the cardio harder than the treadmill alone....I rarely get above 130 bpm on a treadmill and that's at a 6% angle for 30 minutes.

For instance, I do the treadmill 5 times a week and I'll either do 15 stairmaster or 15 rowing machine....for a total of 45 minutes...then I hit the weights.

Regardless, you can get improvements...the biggest hurdle is getting to the gym.

Best of luck to you.

Its actually ...11 in step 7 inc rise....carpenter 45 yrs...

Mucho gracious...

🍺

I think it would be better to hit the Treadmill, and use the incline, and within reason, add a number of sets of Leg Presses on the Leg Press machines available/after the Treadmill---work the big muscles. Before my DX of Pca I would do sets of 30 Leg Presses, of 300 lbs. 6 Years later, at going on 78---I still hit the same numbers. And if I want I can take the whole rack[390 lbs], but I do not work at trying to go up in weights---but you should set a program, that calls for incremental weight increases--or Rep increases.ADT tries to take our chest manhood away--and give us Man Boobs--so you need to work the chest---hard. When working arms, concentrate on the Triceps---as they represent 66% of the upper arm.

Nal

Nalakrats profile image
Nalakrats in reply to Nalakrats

And do not forget the abs---crunches galore---and if you eat nothing with sugar or that which contains flour, baked goods, bread, pizza, etc. you can keep the Visceral Fat from accumulating.

Nal

pilot52 profile image
pilot52 in reply to Fightinghard

Walking will not get it done...for legs and cardio consider a Peloton....You will not be affected by weather, you do not have to drive , and your coach is in your house... Blue Skies

Hey Fightinghard!

While good, walking will not develop much strength in legs. A range of motion is important. Perhaps starting with some body weight squats. As you become comfortable with the squats go deep, a** to the grass! For your lower legs there must be a few stairs with a railing you can use. Place the balls of your feet an inch or more past the edge of a stair while supporting yourself with the railing to do heel raises.

If it is possible, do a series of sprints, sort of HIIT training. Do enough to challenge yourself.

If you wish to stay away from the gym for awhile to avoid the coronavirus cooties try an adjustable chest expander. Amazon has a decent tube type that has a max resistance of 262 lbs. The "UEASY" 5 tube expander. There are good videos on line. Sandow used chest expanders and if you look the exercises that can be done with an expander are shown on line.

James Grage has some videos showing the Undersun bands. Same place--the big "A".

youtu.be/xHWKrXFHSf4

That is just one of many videos Grage has on line. He and his band routine made it into the --maybe--next to last issue of Muscle & Fitness, before Muscle & Fitness ended pulp publication.

Currumpaw

TomTom1111 profile image
TomTom1111 in reply to Currumpaw

Hey Currmpaw,

Do you realize this gentlement is 68 years old....I don't think he'll be getting is a$$ to the gra$$ anytime soon 😀

Great advise otherwise.

I love HIIT...do it twice a week.

Currumpaw profile image
Currumpaw in reply to TomTom1111

Hey TomTom1111!

I do ATG back squats, breathing squats, high rep with limited weight because of the fluoro damage.

No one should start all at once trying a full range of motion. It would be the same as expecting someone that can't touch their toes to bend at the hips and place their palms on the floor.

Maintaining strength in our legs and range of motion is so important as we age. It prevents falls.

I mentioned the bands and expander because of the pandemic. Much of the US of A isn't too far from herd immunity. I do expect a resurgence in the fall of 2021 again. Everything could change depending on variants. I have enough equipment to open a gym if I wished. I should have sold off much of it a year ago when prices were astronomical . I haven't been to a gym in a decade or longer.

Currumpaw

TomTom1111 profile image
TomTom1111 in reply to Currumpaw

Hey Currumpaw,

You can look his up..but falls are a result of losing fast twitch muscle...don't get me wrong ..strong legs helps but the inability to recover quickly results in falls and that comes from losing fast twitch muscle as we age...that and balance issues from dizzy spells.

HIIT Training can help with the fast twitch muscles...

6-7 and 275lbs.

My a$$ hits the grass and I need a tow truck to get it back up!! Lol.

so how was the gym...you crazy tall guy are at a disadvantage...most of the equipment is not designed for 6'7" men.....

Good stuff Currumpaw

I have been able to maintain my leg muscles and possibly increase muscle but lost a lot of my upper body (not that I had that much to begin with) and still not ready to head back to the gym yet, but I will when it seems safe.

Currumpaw profile image
Currumpaw in reply to treedown

Hey treedown!

That chest expander I mentioned only costs about $20. It has 5 tubes and comes in three resistance levels. A 5 tube where all tubes equal 264 lbs. to a 5 tube where all 5 tubes equal 143 lbs. Leave the retention caps off to change resistance quickly. You can do a total upper body work out with one and even get in exercise when commercials air. One tube to five can be used. I would recommend the black tubed, 120 kg or 264 lb. expander because one tube should be okay for almost anyone at a beginner's level. A 100 kg, 220 lb. or 65 kg resistance expander are available.

Currumpaw

treedown profile image
treedown in reply to Currumpaw

Thanks I'll look into it but I already have a machine I purchased and don't use so probably wouldn't add to the pile, I already have to hear about it from my wife.

Currumpaw profile image
Currumpaw in reply to treedown

Hey treedown!

$20 and fits into a brown paper lunch bag. Many videos on the net demonstrating exercises.

Currumpaw

Add leg presses and some squats. Rip those bicepp and tris and don’t forget your back with seated rows and lat pull downs. I workout at night and get gassed which helps me sleep!

It’s impossible to fight the hypogonadism train once you’re aboard it fully castrated . No t no muscle will be built . The best is a Jane Fonda light weight high reps routine . Yoga and maintaining strengths in joints is most important. Not only does adt and or lack of t effect muscle and joints it hits tendons ligament veins and our heart . Easy to get injured . “Just Keep moving “! Said Jack Lalaine .

rust profile image
rust in reply to Lulu700

Fonda, really?? What about Simmons...

Stevecavill profile image
Stevecavill in reply to rust

hahahahaha !

Lulu700 profile image
Lulu700 in reply to rust

Either or ? Depending on ones macho status or lack there of?😂

A great investment is the theragun or knockoff as this is a great self massage if the mrs doesn’t wanna help u!

My PCP just prescribed PT with trainer for me.. VA will pick up 100%.

Yes You can increase strength and muscle size

With resistance training

Even though your testosterone is blocked

Lactic acid still builds up

Train smarter not harder

I have gained strength and size

Gleasin 9 stage 4

I trained prior to treatments during treatments and after

Go for it with a vengeance

rust profile image
rust in reply to Bodysculpture

I have kept up my normal very physically active routine around the homestead on weekends to the point of exhaustion and it takes 2 to 3 days for me to physically and mentally recover. During the office work week I walk 1 mile every day. I try to be mentally alert and cheerful but by about 5 PM I am toast.

You better back off a little .... you gain any more muscle, you’ll explode.

Just say’in 😂😂😂😂😂❤️❤️❤️

Loving it lol

❤️❤️❤️

Yea .... resistance training is what I use. When I think of training , my body becomes very resistant.... works every time.

💪💪💪💪💪

As you can see there is plenty of advice about what kind and how much lifting to do, so I won’t bother adding to that.

Love the enthusiasm though-we are the guys to listen to. A few will tell you that you. ‘can’t’ build muscles without testosterone. It’s a observational study of themselves, and a bad and unhelpful thing to tell anyone.

However it’s close enough to the truth to discourage people, and that’s exactly why it’s unhelpful-it’s very difficult to impossible for most guys to gain any strength lifting on ADT. Yet in trying great things happen.

My dexa scans showed increased mass after 18 months on ADT, but it was minimal and I work hard.

I am prouder of this than all other fitness goals I’ve ever set. But I’d be happy enough if I’d just stayed the same.

As Nalakrats said, you can build strength on ADT, but not much size. That doesn’t matter because we’re old and our size-building is mostly over due to age anyway. So do not worry about this.

Work as hard as you safely can. Your VERY worthwhile achievement (if you be sure to forget about missing what you used to do and other pointless comparisons to youth) will be that you STOPPED the drug from robbing your muscle, as well as taking your endurance, energy, positive mood and much more, while it also slowed your metabolism to make easier than ever to gain fat.

A life without lifting isn’t with living when you’re older, with or without other factors such as this.

Remember : the side effects of ADT are essentially the same as aging, only much stronger. Hold the line! It’s worth everything.

Thank all for the encouragement and good advice. I will let you know in a couple months if its helping me

I was advised to do light resistance training, but also warned that I could do some damage if I over did it.

Hi. I am from the "it's a tall order but it can be done " camp. I don't buy the close gym excuse. You don't need a gym to do bodyweight strength for one thing.

I haven't been to my gym in 15 months now, and still had maintain - and now slowly increase mass. I built up my own gym in the garage , buying weights and very resistant bands etc.

It can be done. And exercises just as good for the mind as it is for the body,

I workout five days a week. I have a personal trainer that comes to my home, she was given the task of adding muscle and building strength and is fully aware of my condition She has me lifting heavy and eating a caloric surplus since muscle can not be built without it. I have gained muscle and am getting stronger the heavier I lift. Getting ready for trip to Costa Rica and want to slim down so now I am doing HIIT and have cut my calories. Amazingly, this works I am taking piles of the same supplements body builders use. Take pictures of yourself and body measurements to track your progress. However, don't start any kind of exercise program until you check with your doctor. Also, my trainer will not introduce a new supplement without me checking with oncologist first, there are some that can be dangerous with our condition. Good luck

I was whining to my MO a few years back...No T so why lift? His reply, "Women can build muscle, so can you."

Was just what I needed. I quit my pity party and started back at gym. About 5 years later I'm not ripped, but a lot firmer and more fit had I wallowed in my pity.

This should be a permanent link here for this frequently asked question: youtu.be/TGEAiU5SnCU

18 minutes will tell you all you need to know. I did OK until the Covid shutdown closed my gym for 8 months. That truly sucked and I'm still recovering from that (and off ADT now for over 8 months.)

It's an entertaining 18 minutes - and worth watching for anyone going on ADT.

kainasar profile image
kainasar in reply to Don_1213

Merci gracious. Video presents useful studies, and there's common sense advice, such that using exercise doesnt have to be an ordeal,and, is helpful in fighting depression and fatigue and hot flashes.

Been working-out on my TotalGym (every other day) for last nine months following an episode where I could not lift self off floor. Definitely increased strength and added one inch diameter to upper arms, took about three inches from waist. Considering my total effort I expected more muscle mass, but have learned that men in our situation really struggle at adding muscle mass.

Hey TwilightZone!

Doing the same exercise everyday fails to challenge muscles. They become accustomed and growth and strength gains stagnate. For your upper body the chest expander I have mentioned might be quite helpful for you. Sandow not only used chest expander, cables and bands but sold them too. I bought my first chest expander in 1965. Before I ever heard of Arnold Schwarzenegger I knew much about Eugene Sandow. Arnold's opinion of Sandow and what Sandow accomplished with his training can be heard at 8:15 in the video.

youtu.be/jFk-L7Wcg0g

Currumpaw

No

No

I have been also fighting hard for 10 years. Gleason 4+3 at diagnosis. No surgery. EBRT then cryotherapy 2 years after that. When that failed had High dose brachytherapy which scarred my urethra. Now on hormone therapy and am semi-incontinent. Taking Xtandi and Ogovyx to keep the testosterone low, but my PSA keeps rising. Tripled in last year from 0.4 to 1.2. Testosterone at < 3. That makes my MO happy but I have zero energy. I still work so at the end of the day all I want to do is take a nap. If my 3 year old grandson happens to be at my house when I get home after I spend time with him I collapse. Work out? Are you kidding? Just living life is a major workout and I seem to be losing the battle.

Press on Regardless. Your Grandson needs more good memories of his Grandfather. You need to teach him how to fish, and fly a kite, and enjoy classic old music. I am struggling to get my PSA below 4.0 (not .04). Cure is out there. We just have to live long enough for the right combination to occur. Your numbers are still good. Hang in there Brother! My best to you and yours, Mike K St Pete, FL.

It depends on where you started. If you haven't worked out much I would assume that you could improve strength and maybe even add muscle.Before I started ADT (I used estrogen patches) I was working out 5 times a week, 1hr+ heavy. I lost a ton of upper body muscle. A lot of strength went with it. I worked out just as hard on ADT.

While my upper body lost something around 75% of its strength, my lower body lost under half.

It's been a year and a half since I stopped ADT and I'm finally getting close to my original strength level.

On the positive side, by working out I think I probably reduced the rapid decline in strength/muscle AND something quite important is that I dropped from 18% body fat down to 13%. I've continued down the bodyfat slope and am about 8% today. I haven't been this low since I was 39.

I would do as much heavy leg work as you can and reduce calories so that you don't gain fat.

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