I had a horrible experience getting a scan last week
I had my yearly MRI scan
Had one before noisy but tolerable so they told me to may have had an MRI but not like this
So true it a rather small cylindrical tube they put you on then slide you in my shoulders got caught I adjusted myself and I was finally in
A full body scan they said would he an hour
I was given ear defenders and a device placed above my face with a few pictures
That was way too small I couldn't move at I bottled it fir 25 minutes then I almost damaged this tube to get out the radiologist shouting it's ok Denver you are doing fine
This new scanner as accurate as they claim it is
Is too enclosed and small I am not claustrophobic thus was just to tight and hot and very uncomfortable
They brought me out and they arr gonna do it again using a scanner they said would be more suitable
State of the art my ass
It was a horror movie
I felt awfull I dont see myself as a pussy but this was too much
I cant even lie on my back for 1 hour without adjusting and that's at home
I feel so bad about the experience and I am now filled with fear about an experience that made me feel like a cigar in a metal tube
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I’ve used earphones with music before. Really helps. The next tech said no ear phones because you might bounce to the music. I demanded themAnd they really helped. Next time ask in advance.
Find a state of the art radiation facility with an “open MRI machine”. Also ask for Zoloft to ease your anxieties. Is there a large university medical center near you? There is no reason you have to put up with antiquated first generation equipment Even if you are in the national health service.
Open MRIs have specific applications but are not useful for precise,high resolution deep tissue imaging (especially prostate) because of their low field strength. T2 signals transverse to the field are very quiet but also very tiny so they require the highest signal to noise ratio possible, mainly a function of field strength.They have to be used if the patient absolutely can not fit in the bore of the high field.
I think they design them for women and children. They should have an extra-large size for guys like you. Why were they giving you an MRI for anyway? Would a CT suffice?
Allen here in the UK after treatments they check your bloods every 3 months and once yearly a full body MRI that seems to be standard procedure But this was designed for someone much smaller
I was squashed would the scans be any good at all I wonder
I concur 100% as I feel your pain. These. MRI systems are not designed for larger people. One time I’m in the tube undergoing a brain mri with snd without contrast, and they attach a head piece that squashes your head and a mirror which allows u to see the technicians. However, the mirror was upside down and it was tight, hot and uncomfortable. I closed my eyes as if I looked at the mirror, I would have soon barfed inside the tube. I stayed calm and meditated and try to create a song based on the noises and frequencies of the mri. It worked! 1 hour and did not press that button knowing I would lose my line and have to do this over again. Uuuuggghhhhhh......
I can't have MRIs anymore because I have a non-MRI -compliant pulse generator in my chest - I have CTs instead. The bore hole is much wider - and it doesn't bang. There's more radiation, of course, but the risk is small,
You are much better off to avoid ionizing radiation. Those who denigrate the dangers of exposure and the risk of cancers from exposure are usually those who want to use ionizing radiation for imaging.
A friend told me that the FDA does not regulate ex-rays. The FDA, to what I knew last, had requested "guidelines" to be established by The American College of Radiology with input from a few other colleges. One's ex-ray history and exposure to ionizing radiation doesn't follow one from the GP, the Walk in Clinic, the dentist, the ER or chiropractor and radiation damage is cumulative.
The friend, a Phd, who worked in medical research in Boston warned me about the dangers of and overuse of ionizing radiation decades ago before the internet and the links below.
It is interesting that dental ex-rays use the smallest amount of ionizing radiation, yet, where I last worked, of a population of about 125, two of the younger folks had thyroid cancers. A 41 year old and one in their mid 30's both had thyroid cancers. Us "older" folks didn't grow up with dental ex-rays nor were dental ex-rays the norm until later in our lives and none of us had thyroid cancers.
The random effects meta-analyses, based on seven studies of thyroid cancer (six case/control, one cohort) and eight studies of meningioma (all case/control), showed that multiple (or repeated) exposures to dental X-rays were significantly associated with an increased risk of thyroid cancer (pooled RR …
Multiple exposures to dental X-rays may be associated with an increased risk of developing thyroid cancer, according to a collaborative study by scientists from Brighton, Cambridge and Kuwait. In the study, the risk of thyroid cancer increased with increasing numbers of dental X-rays taken.
Dental X-rays may increase thyroid cancer risk | British Dental Jour…
Jul 15, 2008 · The study, the first of its kind to report the relationship between low dose ionising radiation from diagnostic procedures and the risk of prostate cancer, was funded by the …
I don't expect a follow up on this study as ex-rays are a quick go to for patient info and also to protect the medical folks from malpractice suits. The cancers don't usually show up for at least several years. Imagine the lawsuits in the wake of a study or studies that confirmed the findings in the above study. Those that practice medicine would be at odds with those in research! Think about that--like a husband and wife throwing one another under the bus! Of course--the lawyers come out on top!
So please limit your CTs to only when necessary as many here enjoy and have benefitted by your sharing your knowledge here.
TA, it's not that they necessarily design them for thin people, there are some engineering and physical constraints. It's a challenge to control eddy currents within the bore the way it is, that would get much worse. Luckily, we have open bore that can be used for patients that can't fit in, although not as good because of lower field strength and would not come close to supporting spectroscopy
Thanks for explaining. I struggling to understand why annual full body MRIs would be necessary anyway. PSA is a good signal that imaging may be necessary - no need to do MRIs routinely.
Same here!!!! I was okay until the jacked the table up !!! Couldn’t get out of there fast enough!!!!! Now they dope me up beforehand and during. Sucks because now I have to drag my wife along with me to drive me (take another pill before that too)!!!!!!!Jc
She must be, cause 1/2 + 1/2 + 1/2 = 1 1/2........... Man oh Man you got you're hands full!!! I guess you never know if the ceiling needs painting.......
Sorry.... got 45 years invested in this one!!! See’s got me pretty much the way she wants me! Plus, You would have include a pretty nice boat on your part.... just to “start” talking!!!!Jc
I have been given 10 mgs if diazepam to be taken 30 minutes prior to the scan They explained this one is much bigger and wider and my head will he out of that chamber for some time during the procedure
I cant stand anything that restrictive it effects my respiration as well
That experience is causing loads of anxiety about my next scan 8th March
I use 1mg Lorazapan an hour before to take the edge off before getting in the torpedo tube. The newer machines are 70cm diameter bore, so it gives a little extra space, but the table take the bottom third. Before a session, I practice at home with a series of chairs lined up-- the idea is to get used to being trapped with a surface 3" from my face-- makes the MRI feel roomy!
I had a similar experience with MRI and CT scan where they used some type of setting gel which set after lying in it and then a membrane was placed over you and evacuated. The pressure on mets I had on the spine was excruciating. Accuracy was the reason! Next time I will have a hefty dose of morphine before hand.
The smaller "tubes" get the strongest part of the magnetic field closest to the body producing greater "signal" differential from different body parts and thus better images.
Radiologists will explain MRI in a very complex way talking about molecular "spin" & alignment of "spin" with the magnet in one direction and deterioration of that "spin" when the magnet goes off. This is because that is the way they were instructed & it is not wrong just complex. BTW the "banging" you hear while in the magnet (tube) is the magnet being rapidly turned on & off and this produces the signal.
A more understandable way to think about MRI is this: MRI measures water. There are different amounts of water in different organs so the amount of "signal" from each is a bit different. Water (H20) is a "polar molecule". Water has a positive end (the H2 end) & a negative end (the O end). When the magnet is turned on, the magnet has both a positive end and a negative end & water in body tissues/organs aligns with the magnet because the magnet is so powerful. When the magnet is turned off the water (H2O) returns to a random orientation. When the magnet is on the water is oriented toward the magnet orientation and this is an organized, high energy state. When the magnet is shut off the water goes back to a random orientation which is disorganized & is a low energy state. When the water goes from a high energy state to a low energy state the energy difference is released & this is called "signal". The signal is weak and in order to get enough signal to get clear images, on & off of cycling of the magnet has to be performed multiple times ...... this is all the "banging" you hear in the magnet.
So, how do you get the best images???
#1---use a stronger magnet. 1.5 Tesla used to be a common MRI magnet but this has evolved and the 3 Tesla magnet is now much more common than it used to be. I expect in 10 years we might commonly see 5 or 6 Tesla MRI magnets ..... the time before they get here is a GUESS on my part but they are coming. The stronger the magnet, the greater percentage of water in body tissues will align with the magnet, the stronger the signal will be each time the magnet is shut off. Better signal produces better images. Also these better images are produced faster (because the magnet is stronger).
#2---use a small bore magnet. The closer the body gets to the magnet the greater percentage of water in body tissues will align with the magnet, the stronger the signal will be each time the magnet is shut off. Better signal produces better images.
So, if getting MRI imaging:
#1----use the strongest MRI magnet available .... 3T (3 Tesla) magnets are becoming more available & if you have a choice opt for a 3T MRI magnet rather than a lower Tesla magnet --- images will be better/clearer. Also, 3T images are obtained a bit faster vs say 1.5T images (your time in the magnet "bore" will be a bit less).
#2----use a small bore magnet rather than an "open" magnet --- images will be better/clearer
If you cannot stand being in a small-bore magnet often a sedative/antianxiety medication can be given .... I have seen MRI's in a hospital given with significant sedative requiring an Anesthesiologist to be present to monitor the patient while in the MRI similar to the Anesthesiologist monitoring a patient in surgery .... though the sedation is MUCH lighter while in an MRI vs surgery .... sedation/significant sedation might not be available in an outpatient free-standing MRI facility.
All the above being said, ALL MRI's have good imaging otherwise they would never make it to market. The BEST MRI imaging better defines ALL structures but especially those structures which are small are better seen .... early/small metastasis would be better seen.
The above explanation might not be "exactly" correct but it is MUCH easier to understand and the major theme is correct. For example, I only talked about water but there are other polar molecules in the body which also align themselves with the magnet and give off signal when the magnet is shut off. However, water is FAR more common in tissues vs other polar molecules and is the commonest polar molecule affected by the magnet. So the details might technically be wrong but the major theme is correct.
Your post is very nice except for one misconception. The magnet does not turn off and on, it's on all the time, even when no one is using it. It's the radio waves that are turned on and off, causing the echo from the molecules in your body to vibrate and that echo is what produces the image.
As I said near the end of my explanation, this is an easier to understand explanation and gives an easy "reason" for the banging ..... it is not technically correct .... even so, some websites, describe the "banging" as being ".... created when magnetic fields are cycled on and off ....", admittedly, this example site is for the lay individual :disnola.com/why-are-mri-sca...
However, others more correctly say: "When the radiofrequency source is switched off the magnetic vector returns to its resting state, and this causes a signal (also a radio wave) to be emitted. It is this signal which is used to create the MR images."
The lay explanation is just easier to understand which is why I explained it that way but added the disclaimer that all aspects of this explanation were not technically correct. This lead into my explanation of how to get the best images & why a small bore is used which was the subject I wanted to address as the original posting person seemed to not have been given that information.
You are, of course, more technically correct, which is why it is always dangerous to take ferro-magnetic items into the scanner room even if no one is being imaged .... taking ferro-magnetic items into the scanner room has resulted in some dramatic accidents .... I know of a case decades ago where a magnetic crash cart was brought into the scanning room to aid a patient who coded (the hosp was too cost-conscious to buy a non-magnetic crash cart) ..... the cart got close to the magnet & "leaped" onto the magnet .... they had to quench the magnet (a time consuming process) in order to get the crash cart off of the magnet.
Your prognostication has already come true! When last I checked, Florida State U. magnet lab and Mayo Rochester had 7T magnets and Los Alamos magnet lab and University of Minnesota had 10Ts
It's somewhat uncharted waters, when I first started in MR systems engineering at GE, 1.5T had just come into existence. There were rumors of schizophrenia et al, I'm not sure the human body is designed to be in such high fields, we are electrochemical beings after all.
---CT resolution is somewhat better vs MRI .... the edge can be better defined
---MRI tissue differentiation is better vs CT ..... metastasis (softer tissue with more water) in bone (hard tissue with less water) are often much better seen with MRI vs CT .... especially small metastasis. The bigger the magnet the better the resolution & tissue differentiation, the better structures are seen, especially small structures ... so, a 3T (Tesla) MRI magnet is better vs a 1.5T MRI magnet & it is also a bit faster but not nearly as fast as a CT.
---iron based metals cannot go in an MRI magnet because they are magnetic. There have been cases of small foreign objects in the body thought to be non-magnetic which were mildly magnetic & were moved around in the body by the magnet ... the patient could feel it & it had moved on subsequent x-ray imaging. Pacemakers often cannot go in an MRI though there at least used to be one which was MRI compatible.
----since it is important to get the patient close to the magnet to generate the most signal, MRI magnet bores are small and large/obese patients can be difficult/impossible to image by MRI depending on the size of the patient.
----the larger/more obese the patient the more difficulties getting good imaging. CT tables have weight limits .... MRI's have bore limits and as I recall weight limits as well ..... CT's have bore limits but usually not as tight as MRI's --- usually the table weight limit is the problem with CT's. Additionally there is image deterioration with morbidly obese patients .... the easiest way to think about this is the signals which make the images (CT x-rays & MRI signal) have difficulty traveling through all that body tissue without distortion to the receiver outside the body which receives the signals and makes the images.
Very nice to have some nice chemistry and physics in the conversation. Specifically MRI I believe images the protons' (Hydrogen's) unpaired electrons. Other materials with unpaired electrons will also absorb energy from the fluctuating EM field. that is why Gadolinium is used as a MRI contrast (enhancing) media. Gadolinium has two unpaired electrons with two modes of magnetic response, I seem to recall . (Paramagnetic and ferromagnetic at different energy levels??)
The explanation I gave was for the purpose of understanding. As someone has pointed out the magnet is "on" all the time and radiofrequency is switched on & off. I gave the explanation I did for the purpose of general basic understanding as opposed to technical correctness. Hydrogen's protons for the positive end & oxygen electrons for the negative end form the polarization of the water molecule. If water was not polar MRI would likely not exist. GAD (gadolinium) is also likely polar but I do not remember the details on GAD.
I gave the explanation I gave to discuss the reason for the small bore & what changes produced better imaging. These had to do with the original post.
My hope is this was helpful as opposed to a technical explanation.
Got it. And a great explanation it was. Just trying to add to the conversation. I don’t get to talk science that much except for cancer related cellular biology here 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Sorry to hear your issue, I’m rather medium I guess and have had one every 6 months for the last 5 years. I just go to sleep and we’re done. Just saying
I have had many MRIs in the past and never had a problem until about 2 years ago when i was subjected to an old and smaller machine . I found the answer was to get an RX from my doctor for one 5 mg Valium pill which i took 30 minutes before the MRI and i was pretty much able to sort of doze while in the MRI machine. I also found that if you get a new machine the openings are bigger in the 3T size machines. I just had MRI earlier this month in one and with the Valium it was easy. Good luck.
Many MRIs? How many? After five MRIs I had heavy metals testing done by Doctor's Data.
The reference interval is <5. My result was 13. I had maybe 15 or 16 chelation infusions then a sixth MRI. I was tested again last year for heavy metals. Even with the sixth MRI my result was 8.4. I am considering another round of chelation therapy.
Apr 02, 2015 · Several recent studies that involve Gadolinium-based Contrast Agents used for enhanced MRIs have gotten the attention of the radiology community. The findings of all the studies indicate that Gadolinium-based Contrast Agents, or GBCAs, might not work exactly as everyone thought they did. The recent Mayo Clinic study by McDonald et al appears to confirm …
May 05, 2015 · Researchers from Teikyo University School of Medicine in Tokyo, Japan, found that even in patients without severe renal dysfunction, gadolinium-based contrast agent administration causes gadolinium accumulation in the brain. Brain tissues from five autopsied patients who had undergone multiple gadolinium-based contrast MRI exams and five patients with no gadolinium …
Aug 07, 2018 · She had five MRIs with gadolinium over several years and got sicker each time. ... the FDA stepped up warnings again, saying gadolinium is not only retained in the brain but in body organs, too. But it downplayed any risks. Shortly after, Europe and Japan banned most uses and types of the most problematic gadolinium dyes. The FDA decided on a ...
"There's been a dramatic evolution in thought since MRI dye was introduced 30 years ago. Doctors and the FDA used to insist gadolinium was quickly urinated out of the body. But in 2006, internal FDA documents show, scientists recognized gadolinium was linked to a deadly disease that causes thickening and tightening of the skin and organs: nephrogenic systemic fibrosis or NSF. In 2007, the FDA added a serious "black box" warning, but only for patients with weak kidneys. In 2010, an expanded warning about repeat MRIs. Then, in 2015, the FDA also acknowledged, there could be risks to people with normal kidneys."
"They only found help with alternative medicine doctors who discovered Gena's gadolinium levels were literally off the charts. Healing has taken several years and two million dollars of treatments not covered by insurance. We caught up with the Norris' again at their Texas ranch where Gena is still in intensive treatment."
"It's taken years for major health bodies to acknowledge major issues. In May of last year, (2017? C paw), the FDA stepped up warnings again, saying gadolinium is not only retained in the brain but in body organs, too. But it downplayed any risks. Shortly after, Europe and Japan banned most uses and types of the most problematic gadolinium dyes. The FDA decided on a different approach last December, deciding not to issue a ban in the U.S.; insisting gadolinium benefits outweigh any risks. Instead, the FDA ordered new safety studies. According to the FDA, the bigger problem occurs with the types of dyes called "linear," which stay in the body longer and in larger amounts. The FDA says there's more risk with Omniscan or OptiMARK than Eovist, Magnevist, or MultiHance. The lowest levels remain in the body after Dotarem, Gadavist and ProHance, according to the FDA.
It was a doctor that practices some alternative medicine that suggested heavy metal testing. My lead level only came down 10%. Cadmium about the same percentage neither of which I am exposed to now or since the chelation therapy. The gadolinium seems to chelate much better dropping about a third even with a sixth MRI after the chelation infusions!
If a MRI is necessary then it is! Chelation therapy should probably be considered for those who have had multiple MRIs.
I have had 5 for my PCa in the last 5 years and 2 or 3 others for other problems. May not be a lot but it sure seems like it to me. If i never have another one it will be too soon!
Older generation scanners did have slightly smaller bores, shimming and eddy current compensation has gotten a lot better allowing slightly larger openings.
As someone who does not like to take any sedatives for just about anything, Valium gets me through my MRI, though I am relatively thin, I could not do it without a sedative. I get 2 prescribed before any MRI scans, and take just one. The other is a back up.
Most of the places here in the US provide noise cancelling headphones which block all but the loudest gradient pulsing noise. Also, a sedative should have been offered and provided if requested.
I take my blow up down in with me.....she's great... doesn't say a word....
BTW Ever have an endorectal mri?
Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) - Prostate
Magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) uses a magnetic field, radiofrequency pulses, and a computer to produce detailed pictures of the body. Doctors use Prostate MRI to evaluate the extent of prostate cancer and determine whether it has spread. They may also use it to help diagnose infection, conditions you were born with, or an enlarged prostate. Some exams may use an endorectal coil, a thin wire covered with a latex balloon. The doctor inserts the coil a short distance into the rectum. Prostate MRI does not use radiation. It provides images that are clearer and more detailed than other imaging methods.
LOL.... You're correct, this time.......... I was getting to like them.......especially when the doctor has to bend over you to blow up the balloon......Takes a lot of lung power....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Tuesday 02/23/2021 7:26 PM EST
Under circumstances like that I know I am claustrophobic. I asked for and got a sedative to help me through the ordeal. It wasn't easy.
Just last week my wife had to have a MRI brain scan. Knew she couldn't do a tube, so went to an open MRI. It was great that I could be with her. Was able to hold her hand and talk her through it. It did stop my watch, but got it going again.
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