1950s depression pill could be used to treat prostate cancer ...

[markoch26]

1950s depression pill could be used to treat prostate cancer ...

Your thoughts on this, please. Thanks

Click on the link to read more

dailymail.co.uk/health/arti......

[LearnAll]

Phenelzine, a mono amine oxidase inhibitor, anti depressant can drop PSA by 30 to 50 % and control both Androgen dependent as well as Androgen Independent prostate Cancer.This medicine blocks an enzyme ,monoamine oxidase.. resulting in increased serotonin level in the brain.

Recent research indicates that Phenelzine does not reduce testosterone in men BUT acts by a different mechanism which slows/stops cancer cell growth. The best part is that it works even in Castration resistant prostate cancer.

Common Side effects are: Fatigue, High blood pressure, dizziness. The most feared side effect is what is called "Cheese Reaction" which means sudden increase in blood pressure when certain foods are eaten....such as Beer, Cheese, Fava Beans, Sourkrauts, Alcoholic drinks , morphine like pain killers and so on.

Phenelzine is a great addition to our current weapons against PCa BUT...to use it carefully, always watching what foods you are eating and what other meds you are taking ..requires lot of time and effort. It is very effective med for depression and hopefully for prostate cancer.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Please don,t forget another anti depressant, Sertraline ( Zoloft) which can help controlling prostate cancer. And Sertraline does not have serious side effects like "cheese reaction]"

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[GeorgeGlass in reply to LearnAll]

Is the slowing of the cancer in the zoloft tests presumed to be completely due to the stress lowering effect, or is that only part of it... Maybe there is some medical effect as well?

[LearnAll in reply to GeorgeGlass]

Its not due to stress lowering only, Although it is well known that severely depressed human beings have lower immunity and get infections more easily.Scientists are finding out that there is some strange connection between Serotonin balance in Brain and speed of growth of cancer cells. Its a very new finding ,therefore exact mechanism is not yet clear.But non medicinal stress reducing techniques such a deep breathing, Yoga, Meditation and other relaxation therapies like bio feedback work by enhancing body's cancer fighting capacity by increasing blood flow in vessels, boosting oxygen levels and regulate immune system.

Anti depressants are generic mostly and therefore funding for research is limited. These meds can not make any company billions in profits , so not much of attention is paid to them.\

BTW, the herbal supplement, St John's Wort also has mild MAO inhibitor and Serotonin booster effect. Serious side effects like "cheese reaction" is very very uncommon. St John's Wort is not as strong as prescription med, Phenelzine.

[GeorgeGlass in reply to LearnAll]

Very good info LA. Im teaching on much of it but i appreciate the info that i wasn't aware of. Additionally, I've suspected the relationship between depression and cancer grub observing lonely people i know who all have cancer and one died last year.

Since we're discussing cause and effect, gets an interesting one - when i had a girlfriend visiting last month from our of state, i didn't have any need for toilet paper wherever i crapped. I tried to clean myself but everything came out clean for a month straight. After she left, i started having a need for toilet paper again. My diet was unchanged while she was visiting, unless she was putting a little more olive oil, then i do, on my salads. She said the amount was the same as i put on (not much). I've wondered if it's because my body and mind might have been at a more relaxed calm state having her with me, compared to when I'm alone. Being alone might be larger on me with cancer then when i was living a vibrate bachelor's life before the cancer. Just wondering if you have any thoughts on the phycological effects that could cause changes in bowl movements.

[LearnAll in reply to GeorgeGlass]

George..There is research showing that men with PCa do better who are married or have a long term girlfriend. Not Kidding. I read the research paper. I will try to locate it.

Now, why these men do better can be because of sense of happiness and emotional security which women bring...sense of belonging and love...or better food and care which loving women provide. It can be all of these factors combined.

Coming to bowel movements...Anxious and stressed man has overactivated sympathetic nervous system..so they remain constipated ..which gets rebounded to diarrhea,,, A relaxed man has parasympathetic nervous system dominance.. which causes regular bowel movements, slow heart rate, lower blood pressure and less muscle tone. All these factors adjust one,s immune system one way or other.

Love ..not only works like anti depressant ..it also helps with immune system.

Blessed is the man who is loved by his wife or girlfriend

HERE IS A STUDY ABOUT MARRIED MEN AND SURVIVAL:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/311...

[GeorgeGlass in reply to LearnAll]

Very interesting. Everything you said makes sense but these things, and many others, she be taught in schools and during annual doctors checkups. Unfortunately very little discussion like this takes place.

[LearnAll in reply to GeorgeGlass]

There is also clear connection between love and violence. A man who is in love with a woman. .avoids unnecessary arguments and unneeded fights...because he is happy and enjoying his life. Happy people do not like to fight generally.

[GeorgeGlass in reply to LearnAll]

Based on what I've seen on life, ive witnessed a thousand anecdotal events of that from co workers, friends etc. Good point.

[markoch26 in reply to GeorgeGlass]

Let's say if the depression pill is effective to suppress PCa progression, how is it to be taken? Taken alongside hormone therapy OR taken without hormone therapy. In another word, taken as a monotherapy.

[GeorgeGlass in reply to markoch26]

I'm not sure. Learn all is the knowledgeable person on this thread. I have a guess but I'd prefer to let him answer your question.

[doc1947g in reply to markoch26]

I am on Sertraline 100 mg and my ADT was stopped on Nov.16th 2020.Here is a link on Sertraline (ZOLOFT):

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[GeorgeGlass in reply to doc1947g]

why did you stop lupron? intermittent pause or are you trying to replace it with zoloft? Any side effects? I read this list - webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-35/z...

[doc1947g in reply to GeorgeGlass]

The Lupron was put on hold due to my response, PSA = 0.03. My GP put me on Zoloft because I was severly depressed.So far I do not have side effect but my Haemato-oncologist think that my Lymphoma is starting to act.

[j-o-h-n in reply to GeorgeGlass]

I suspect it wasn't more olive oil, she added ground up cork.....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 12/16/2020 5:09 PM EST

[GeorgeGlass in reply to j-o-h-n]

Maybe, I'll have to buy some cork and test it out on my salads.

[j-o-h-n in reply to GeorgeGlass]

If it definitely works we can patent it.........(51% for me 49% for you)..... We can use the motto "Go fork your cork"......

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 12/16/2020 7:11 PM EST

[noahware in reply to LearnAll]

Also worth noting: when patients take two or more antidepressants from different pharmacologic classes, drug interactions may occur and may lead to potentially severe (fatal) serotonin toxicity, or seratonin syndrome. So, absolutely no mixing these drug types for possible synergy in fighting either depression or PC, folks!

[LearnAll in reply to noahware]

Good point ...noahware. We should not take two antidepressants unless under close supervision of a psychiatrist. Though Serotonin Syndrome is a rare side effect...occur in less than 0.1 % people. It can be identified by its flu like symptoms. .fever, muscle rigidity, shaking and restlessness.

[markoch26 in reply to noahware]

Let's say if the depression pill is effective to suppress PCa progression, how is it to be taken? Taken alongside hormone therapy OR taken without hormone therapy. In another word, taken as a monotherapy.

[noahware in reply to markoch26]

There are probably many other things beside antidepressants that might HELP slow PC progression, but few if any have anything like clinical trials to back them up as monotherapy. Hormonal therapy on the other hand is PROVEN monotherapy, even though results and durations vary between men.

So for myself, I feel the need to pursue one (or more) of the variations on tried and true hormonal approaches, and THEN perhaps add things. But these other things, whether drugs or supplements or foods, could have side effects or interactions. I take metformin and vitamin D because they seem quite safe at normal doses, for example.

I have taken anti-depressants for depression in the past with mixed results. I do not intend now to take any simply to treat PC, but I look at it the way I now look at ALL meds: IF I am must take a certain kind of med, I try to research the category and see which ones might be beneficial with respect to PC (and COVID, now) and which ones might not.

So if, for example, your doc suggests you need a beta-blocker, it might be nice to know that at least one -- propranolol -- is being studied for its anti-PC potential. If he suggests an antidepressant, know you know some to consider above the others!

[MateoBeach in reply to markoch26]

Phenelzine is not effective by itself. The cited Phase II study only had one patient out of 24 with a PSA decline of 50% at 12 weeks. (4%). cancernetwork.com/view/phas...

[markoch26 in reply to LearnAll]

Let's say if the depression pill is effective to suppress PCa progression, how is it to be taken? Taken alongside hormone therapy OR taken without hormone therapy. In another word, taken as a monotherapy.

[LearnAll in reply to markoch26]

Anti depressant monotherapy does not seem enough to me. It has to be an adjuvant therapy to ADT. Dont think there is any problem using sertraline with ADT. Lot of people are already on sertraline for depression who are also on ADT.As for MAO inhibitor, Phenelzine..the Dietary and Other med interactions have to be observed for its safe use.

[MateoBeach in reply to LearnAll]

Great article in the mechanisms of action of sertraline! Give that trio (Somaiah Chinnapaka, Velavan Bakthavachalam, Gnanasekar Munirathinam) their PhDs!Do you have any human clinical studies on it in PC?

I am taking low dose fluoxetine 10 mg another similar SSRI (Prozac) for residual depression/anxiety protection.

[LearnAll in reply to MateoBeach]

Fluoxetine an Sertraline are both SSRIs. Why not switch from Fluoxetine to Sertraline. 10 mg Fluoxetine will be equivalent to 100 mg of Sertraline. Waiting for human studies.

[MateoBeach in reply to LearnAll]

Hat is exactly what I am thinking and now planning. Thanks. It is good preclinical science.

[tango65]

There is some info here:

nature.com/articles/s41467-...

smartscitech.com/index.php/...

[markoch26 in reply to tango65]

Hi tango! Thank you for the two links. After reading them, I am kind of confused which is right and which is wrong as to "MAO-A can inhibit PCa progression or can increase PCa progression.

[MateoBeach in reply to tango65]

Excellent links Tango, thanks. Very promising to consider MAOI cebergoline for overcoming emerging enzalutamide resistance due to ARV7 splice variants. I understand docetaxel alternating with AAR drugs may also overcome such resistance. But this is a whole different possible therapeutic tool.

[j-o-h-n]

I'm depressed.........

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 12/16/2020 2:57 PM EST

[j-o-h-n in reply to j-o-h-n]

I'm no longer depressed......

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 12/16/2020 5:12 PM EST

[MateoBeach]

Compelling articles on MAO-A inhibitors to slow progression of PC and reverse ARV7 resistance as well as EMT transition. (per tango65 articles above).Here are some natural botanical agents with MAO Inhibition activity that some of us may already be taking. And they are safer.

Includes querctin, berberine, curcumin, ECGC, and reservatrol. there are many others in other botanical sources. Ayahuasca anyone?!

botanical-online.com/en/med...

[GeorgeGlass]

I wonder how common these side effects are? I have to be careful with coronary artery disease. webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-35/z...

[j-o-h-n]

undressed.......

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Friday 12/18/2020 2:32 PM EST

[SPEEDYX in reply to j-o-h-n]

For your once a week shower!

[j-o-h-n in reply to SPEEDYX]

Yep and this is the week I use water..........not sand.....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Friday 12/18/2020 2:57PM EST

[SPEEDYX in reply to j-o-h-n]

I understand fellow Polar Bear Club Member there is snow on the beach

[j-o-h-n in reply to SPEEDYX]

Unfortunately you have to be Russian to join........

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Friday 12/18/2020 3:06 PM EST

[SPEEDYX in reply to j-o-h-n]

That's only at the Brighton Beach Club

[j-o-h-n in reply to SPEEDYX]

I will sing a Russian song to you both..... Pizzonya Pizzonya Pizzonya.... in Rusian that means I love you..... If I had my way I'd Pizzonya all day Pizzonay Pizzonya Pizzonya....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Friday 12/18/2020 3:13 PM EST

[SPEEDYX in reply to j-o-h-n]

You can...You have no bladder control...Now that's the other shower you could take!!

[j-o-h-n in reply to SPEEDYX]

Remember I use the twist and tie knot....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Friday 12/18/2020 3:17 PM EST

[SPEEDYX in reply to j-o-h-n]

You should try the double fisherman's knit!

[j-o-h-n in reply to SPEEDYX]

Knot for me............

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Friday 12/18/2020 6:14 PM EST

[j-o-h-n in reply to SPEEDYX]

T = Time out....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Friday 12/18/2020 3:21 PM EST

[SPEEDYX]

That's a permanent depression!!!

[j-o-h-n]

hahahahahahahaha now that's really funny. thanks 9 out of 10 on funny meter.....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Friday 12/18/2020 2:56 PM EST

[j-o-h-n]

I will sing a Russian song to you both..... Pizzonya Pizzonya Pizzonya.... in Rusian that means I love you..... If I had my way I'd Pizzonya all day Pizzonay Pizzonya Pizzonya....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Friday 12/18/2020 3:14 PM EST

[j-o-h-n]

T = Time out....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Friday 12/18/2020 3:22 PM EST