While taking a dew months to decide on a treatment, and after reading a ton of medical stuff and about promising natural diet and supplements, I am still at a loss. I thank some of you for previously writing. My family is vehement for me to get it out (prostectomy). I read the book, "Chris Beat Cancer" and am viewing his new (free) video series in 10 modules. Has anyone else out there try the natural route? Other writers, such as in "Radical Remission" have recovered say it can work.
I am to have a video conference with the oncologist tomorrow (Wed.) . I'm fearful, but leaning towards brachytheraph, if anything. Anyone tried HIFU? Still hoping to keep continent and at least some sex life.
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CarrotBoy
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I have taken many natural supplements over the years but only in conjunction with traditional medicine. If your Pca is still confined to the prostate then maybe surgical removal is the way to go. You have a chance of complete remission.
Vegetarian diet and some supplements can always help to slow the cancer. Particularly vitamin D3.
There are many other supplements to consider. You can search this forum.
I read somewhere that Chris from "Chris beat cancer" had his tumor removed by surgery (colon cancer) - then went on the natural diet/protocol to keep in remission. If true, that is a whole different ball game from trying to beat prostate cancer in situ by solely natural means or minimal treatment.
Based on your profile, you don't have "advanced prostate cancer," right? Why are you talking to an oncologist? They are doctors for men with incurable prostate cancer.
Families often pressure patients to "just cut it out." I dealt with it by smiling a lot, hugging them, and thanking them for their concern.
Many internet sites prey on desperate people with cancer. Anyone can write anything on the internet - it is full of fake news. People who opt for alternative therapies die at over twice the rate of those who pursue conventional therapies. Read this:
You can not reverse your cancer with diet and exercise. But diet and exercise will make your body stronger, which is good, when you are cured (hopefully) with anyone of the conventional therapies, RP or RT. I wish you well.
Yes, Chris had 1/3 of his large colon removed. When asked if he would do it again, he said "No". Back in 2004, there weren't as many procedures to choose and barely much prostate advice on the internet . His is only one of many books on Amazon that claim to beat cancer.
I have been on super cancer inhibitors (killers, with documentation) for over 60 days. Its a rotation of about 8-11 per day. Some people call these a "cocktail". PSA is dropping by my own doing, I believe. What I would like is for the oncologist to re-assess my small tumors to check for change in size, which I am curious about. Has anybody ever had tumors shrink?
There is one amazing discovery the world has missed - from the 1980's. A researcher Dr. Johanna Budwig discovered that your body and all organs get the nutrients and oxygen and fight cancer by a mix of Omega 3 and sulphur foods. Thus she recommends Flax oil thoroughly mixed with low-fat cottage cheese! A doctor won't tell you that because he doesn't know! In a separate report elsewhere, apple cider vinegar is said to kill cancer cells, and with the new Goli gummies you don't have the bitter taste. I think there is success in employing lots of helpful techniques. The more the better.
Apple cider vinegar with gummy bears? I thought alkaline and no sugar was the latest fad - obviously, I'm way behind- you blink, you miss these "cures."
I read Chris beat cancer ? I read and love “ radical remission “ too.. especially shins story .. in my case I was beyond an RP I was non op stage #4 . I did double adt and 8 weeks imrt . I went into remission and have stayed here four years . I wish that I had been oked for surgery . Your chances at it being curative are real . If they catch it all on surgery . Often they don’t . If it were i and they say it is confined to the prostate . I’d get it out quickly .. I’m no dr.... This could be curative for you . Who are you going to trust .? You must follow someone . You need a qualified M O with experience with pc to follow . If it doesn’t sound right get a second opinion . That said . You can do alt medicine if your heart desires as well . I did ..I went to a naturalpathic oncologist and have followed his diet and nutrient plan to a T ... Even though my western doctors did not believe in diet nor nutrition . Follow your own pathway to healing . I fasted during radiation . I did 50 mgs of Vitamin c IV’s amongst others twice weekly for my first year and a half with pc . Exercise and diet are great factors that you can control . None of this is fun .. I had no choice . It was life or death for me .I had a 50/ 50 chance to survive the treatments . You can act now and try to improve your odds of living longer . I can relate to what s going through your head . Do all that can can to live super healthy now . Some guys change nothing . It’s all a crap shoot .. stopping pc before it spreads should be your priority .. once it goes to stage four it’s a different ball of wax that you don’t want to tangle with . Be proactive . . Good luck . Wimp -out 😎🌵
Please tell us and ask questions after your talk with the oncologist? and you’ll get alot of good feedback . T_A knows much about brachytherapy . No matter what you and your dr decide . It will be the best for you . These treatments can possible save your life . Doing nothing should not be an option . .
After RP and two different rounds of IMRT, I have no urinary incontinence issues, and sildenafil mitigates my ED. Easy for me to say, but the benefits of RP and IMRT were well worth the risk. I do have very mild rectal incontinence from the IMRT, but it doesn't require anything more than an extra few trips to the bathroom each week.
One of the excellent benefits of RP is that PSA becomes a very good measure of what is happening with the cancer. Undetectable PSA means it's in remission, and rising PSA means it's progressing.
All decisions are based on risk/benefit. Being diagnosed at age 54 and expecting to live another 35+ years, I did not want to risk giving the cancer time to grow at any point in time. Some guys might think my RP and IMRT were overkill, because I'm no longer in remission, but the way I see it I could be dead now if I had not used every tool in the toolbag at each step. I'm 14 years into the tug-a-war.
These decisions are not easy. Good luck with whatever you decide!
I am 83 and for 24 years have been fighting PC. I refused RP because I felt that is a barbaric procedure. Most doctors want us to accept RP and during these last 24 years I have lost some friends who have accepted what they say is the "cure". However it's not: men are "cured" for some time but at a certain point the cancer returns. That is what happened to 2 of my best friends.
So what I decided to do?_ Wait and see while on Dr. Mathias Rath Therapy (Vitamin C and aminoacids). Oh, what a beatifull decision: a wonderfull sex life for 17+ years and no worries till the day I accepted a sugestion from a Urologist who made me reduce dosage of Vitamin C from 5 to 2 grams because of kidney stones. Six months later PC manifested with metastasis and the problems arrived. But I have been successfull once again. Now on Cannabis Oil: cancer "free" for almost one year while I was able to get the real RSO. However most RSO I could get in Europe is contaminated and in the end I failled with Cannabis Oil.
Now I am trying Fenbendazol and getting good results. Go to Fenbendazol.comand mycancerstory.rocks
You can gard against stones from high vit C by ensuring you up your magnesium supplimenting.
High vit C has been said to cure, some folks doubled dose untill diarrhea, then step back 2 steps, filling your own capsules then becomes advantageous. 24 gig filler is dirt cheap.
Regardless of what treatment, you should have immediately moved to a ketonic diet(only requirement is liver in good condition). And remember that you have to ditch all mental stress-stress and fear put you in fight or flight mode, shutting down your immune system and flooding blood with glucose. All the requirements for a free cancer growth phase.
I have stage 4 prostrate cancer (with a Gleason 8)that had spread to my bones.
I was given 2 years to live, went ketonic diet, hoemone theropy(chemical castration) and 1g a day cannabis oil-as suppositories, - 350mg RS oil and 500mg coco butter in each, 1 morning 2 at night.
That was 4 years ago. Psa been 0.1 for 2 years now.
I have donne RSO exactly like you: a gram a day, rectaly, for 4 months and after PSA=0.2 just 4 grams monthly and it has worked beautifully for another 10 months. However in Europe I have not been able to find a good source for the Oil and have been scamed at least 4 times... I regret I cannot go to California, where I could got the real RSO, because I have to help my wife, serious ill. But Fenbendazole also is working...
Your diet is quite easy to follow and also helps a lot as it helped me.
RSO means Rick Simpson Oil. Rick Simpson is the canadian gentleman who discovered how to make a Cannabis Oil rich in a component (THC) that is seen as a cure for all cancers. Rick Simpson used Oil with 80% THC but now some Alternative Doctors say that 50%THC+50%CBD works better. Better to consult a Cannabis Doctor in California who will help get the real RSO. Do not buy online from a "Doctor" you do not know. You will be scamed for sure.
Thanks. I read in the book "How To Starve Cancer" to avoid ketogenic diets. You mentioned a ketonic diet. Is that the same thing or different? (Ketogenic is high fat and low carbs).
Scans are negative so go for cure and hope you don’t end up in our club. Hoping for the. Best for you. Find the best and most experienced surgeon but don’t delay out of fear or indecision. You can Get on to the other side of it.
Yes, difficult choice re treatment. To best of my knowledge, supplements and diet may be helpful; may make you feel better but they are not treatments that will cure you.
I chose IMRT, brachytherapy boost, and ADT. Surgery and its side effects scared the hell out of me. But, of course, others have had good outcomes with RP.
Btw, Tall_Allen is a great source of info and support.
While you are hesitant about 'traditional' standards of care, the seekers of 'natural' solutions and cures don't have much of a successful track record.
I know this is not what you want to hear, but you might be taking a huge risk (gamble) thinking that you will discover something that others have failed miserably at.
No one wants to join the cancer club, but fate has other plans.
I like the fact that I read 'brachy' in your comments.
I did not get that treatment but it holds promise because it has been proven to be effective for many, based on some good results.
What I WOULD DO, however, is look at some supplements that DO HELP manage some side effects and contribute to a higher quality of life.
There's plenty of commentary on supplements within the archives.
That is the best 'combo' you could come up with.
My supplements make a huge difference on how I feel and function.
Wishing you the best on your journey ....
I went out of state, out of pocket for HIFU in Oct 2016. I've suffered zero quality of life consequences. My PSA, now 3 1/2 years later, has stabilized at 0.5 and I've been off ADT for 3 years.
$25K. There is a post I've seen on this site from someone who got the surgery much cheaper in Germany. Maybe not so practical in this virus environment. A big tax deduction / refund helped with that expense. I've heard that some insurance plans may cover it (Cigna?). Research it and talk to a HIFU provider. My surgeon was from Santa Rosa, CA and he used an outpatient surgical center in San Francisco.
You said: "My family is vehement for me to get it out (prostectomy)."
Does your family have the training and knowledge to make that sort of suggestion? They aren't facing the consequences of your choice.
Not knowing more about you - I wouldn't even think of making a recommendation, but will make a few comments:
Staging - with a PSA over 20, most scales rate you as "high-risk" - meaning there is a good chance that you may have metastasis now or in the future. That makes certain treatments less applicable to you.
RP - certainly widely used. Fairly successful on life extension, but often with rather serious side-effects. Typically not suggested for people over 70, or people with comorbidities like heart disease, diabetes, COPD, etc. Dependent on the skill of the MD doing the procedure. Considered a standard for high-risk. Often combined with ADT (to shink the tumor and the prostate), sometimes with long-term ADT. If the tumor is found to have escaped the prostate - (ECE) - radiation is usually a followup treatment.
Radiation Treatment (RT) - lots of types. Brachy is one - sees (high-dose temporary or low-dose permanent), either alone or used in conjunction with RT. RT comes in several types - long term low dose treatments (45 days, M-F), high-dose low number of treatments (SBRT), with and without "Boost" (specific radiation treatment to the tumor). This field is advancing rapidly. Proton is claiming it's of use for high-risk PCA, but the lack of people getting Proton for high-risk makes it difficult to prove that it's suitable. Proton is more $$$$, and some insurance companies won't cover it (Medicare does..) In general - the side-effects of any radiation treatment is less than RP, and the different types of RT don't differ a lot in effectiveness or side effects. Since you are high-risk, the most likely recommendation for you would be "Brachy" (radioactive seeds) and RT to the prostate bed and lymph nodes, along with adjunct ADT (Lupron most likely) for 18 months.
Chemo - not generally used as a first-line treatment. Often used when first-line treatments fail. I don't know enough about it to comment on it's use.
The others - freeze it, heat it, blast it with microwaves or light - lots of other treatments out there, not generally considered main stream - but each with their advocates.
The thing to remember - most people recommend the procedure they had. It confirms to them that they made the right decision - so be cautious about accepting advice given in the forums. In my case - I talked to a number of people who had one type of treatment and wished they never had even considered it. Negative feedback on a treatment is much more convincing than positive IMHO. I did listen carefully to the people who expressed dismay in what their treatment did to them.
Good luck making this decision. It's a decision ONLY YOU should really make. Input from other people is fine - but ultimately you're the one living with the decision.
Wish you good health!
Let us know a bit more about yourself, age, health, etc..
Hi Don, and thanks! Yours was the best feedback I got! I am age 68. Recent PSA dropped from 21 to 8, probably due to a cupboard of potent (I believe) supplements and a mostly vege/ natural diet. I dread the barbaric prostadectomy, and I hear scary things about ADT, luckily that is temporary. Some say radiation helps a while, but cancer comes back. I have studied this for months, but I likely have to pick a treatment soon. Write again if you have more to say. CarrotBoy in PA
Feel free to PM me if you want to chat... or if you have questions that maybe I can help you to answer. I have a large collection of papers for studies and trials - ones I think are fairly significant, and use modern technology (some people base their decisions on the results from papers written 10 years ago, that are reporting on the 10-year results from a treatment done 20 years ago that hasn't been used in 15 years.)
Certain fields are advancing quickly - RT has new machines and techniques announced about every 6 months - making for more accurate, powerful treatments with reduced collateral damages. The machine I was treated on a year ago was state of the art at the time - since then - another company has advanced the art again, combining real-time MRI with radiation treatment - amazing stuff.
Drugs - not necessarily chemo - another rapidly advancing field. New discoveries and new drugs are a regular thing if you follow it.
BTW - in my case - 1 urologist-surgeon-oncologist, 2 radiation-oncologists, and 1 world-renowned medical-oncologist all agreed independently (they hadn't talked to each other at all) that I should get RT. That had already been my decision.
The type of RT had to be worked out and the rest of the treatment - but even there I had 3 out of 4 to agree. No one ever suggested surgery. I'm older with some comorbidities. I was one of the unusual cases of low PSA and high Gleason. Had it read by 3 pathologists - got back 9, 10 and 9 - so I figure I'm a 9.3..... Had lots of scans and MRIs looking for spread - none found, but haven't had a PSMA scan - yet.
So far in the year since radiation finished, I've been undetectable for PSA - we'll see how that goes now that I'll be coming off Lupron (after 18 months.) I was told before treatment started by 3 of the MDs that the treatment I got can be curative (and 2 have told me it was.. since I finished treatment) - but to me that basically means I hope to experience a durable remission. There are no guarantees how long the remission might last - forever would be nice, but no guarantee.
Once again you gave me hope and direction. Did you dread ADT with lupron? I have a video conference today with my oncologist around noon, Eastern time). If he still suggests Lupron, I hope I can get in smaller, monthly doses, not in 3 months doses. If my prostate has shrunk some, maybe I can go right to seeds? My family wants me to get surgery (RP) and not mess around with radiation. Standing my ground.
I might look for you on chat near evening after I hear the doctor's latest. Before, I wanted to stay on the natural home remedies, but I think its time to do something conventional, maybe do them simultaneously. Always thankful for your input.
I didn't dread it because I didn't know all the side-effects Lupron can cause. At the time when I started it - was about a month after diagnosis - all the scans had been done, tests were done, and a certain big cancer center in NYC (with MSK as it's initials) was waffling on what to do. One oncologist (radiation guy) there seemed to want me in a study, but it was taking forever for any approval. Meanwhile even getting to see the other the other oncos - well - appointments were a month or more out. When I did go to the local facility for tests, etc - wait, wait, wait was the name of the game.
Since nothing was happening - I went to my urologist (who had found the PCA) and asked what he thought about starting Lupron RIGHT NOW - he seemed to think that was a good idea since it would probably be required as adjunct to any treatment I might select. So I started it - very unaware of side-effects... and at first the side-effects weren't bad. But it did slow the cancer down and the tumor in the prostate shrunk and my PSA dropped (from around 2 to around 1..) Having started it when I did meant there was very little delay starting my radiation treatment at the beginning of the new year (I'd been diagnosed for Thanksgiving, started radiation 1/2/19.) Tell your family seeds are surgery (and it really is - just much less intrusive).
You'll have to ask the MD doing the seeds about when they can be done. I'm not an MD, just another victim of PCA who has a background in science and research, so I can't help myself - it's another puzzle to figure out.
In 1996 i had 5 weeks of EBRT followed a month later with Brachy. Everything went well for 15 years then I had BCR. Been fighting BCR for the last 9 years.
I'm sure it is. What cancer cells the initial treatment didn't kill probably went into dormancy. I had a good run for 15 years. Never thought that I would live this long.
My initial treatment was Lupron and Casodex starting on 1/96 followed by 5 weeks EBRT in 4/96 and 5/96 then Brachytherapy (seed implant) 9/96. I stopped all hormone therapy on seed implant date and for 15 years all I had was a PSA check every 6 months. Because I still had my prostate there was some PSA left but on my chart it showed as a small wavy line at the bottom of the chart. I had 8 PSA tests where the PSA was undetectable. My PSA at DX was 95 and no one wanted to operate. I went on line and searched for the best treatment and I came up with combined radiation, EBRT and Brachy. Most urologists were giving me 2 to 3 years to live. Here I am 24 years later still fighting PCa. If you need more info just ask.
I thought seriously about everything your thinking of and relatively quickly went the conventional route I did make alterations to my diet, activity level, BMI, and I added and addressed everything available to me yoga, accupuncture, guided imagery, breathing techniques, meditation, grounding, stress, sleep, personal relationships. I read a few books on survivors early on and I figured why take anything off the table. Haven't gone all in on supplements for various reasons but have greatly increased the variety of foods in my diet along the line of the angiogenesis foundation. Wish I had found this forum earlier than I did but it wouldn't have made any changes if I had, so just glad I found it now. Still too early in my journey to say if the choices were right but so far I am responding well to treatments w/o any important issues from RT or ADT, but some unimportant ones to me I have. I can actually say cancer has motivated some positive changes in my life and if it is shorter I am now sure it will be brighter. Some advice I still use is pick your treatment and don't look back. Best to you and your journey
I agree with what many have said. There are some very knowledgeable people on this forum. I am in the negative territory Don mentioned. If very many men got the side effect from robotic surgery I have, not many would ever choose surgery. That said, I had a coworker that had the older open surgery and then had to get salvage radiation. He had a worse side effect from radiation. I would not want what he had either. Also, in addition to my life altering side effect, I am also getting salvage radiation for recurrence. I do not know yet what, if any side effects, I will get from it. If you do choose surgery, I would recommend using a surgeon that has done A LOT OF THEM! No matter which choice you pick, it is best not to look back.
Well, CarrotBoy, unless your doctor's name is Bugs Bunny, I would listen carefully to what he says. And to what he doesn't say. Unless your family are medical specialists, don't listen to them, but be polite about it. Blame the doctor for the decision you make. I have a friend who had a RP who now regrets it because of incontinence. I have foot neuropathy from 8 cycles of Taxotere. It annoys me every day. But if I'm annoyed, it means I'm still here. Stage IV metastatic so still have prostate. Have read about prostate cancer for 3 years now, and almost every week or so, what I thought was right is proven wrong. We are all putting a jig saw puzzle together, but haven't been given all the pieces. And some of the pieces are wrong. I would beware of internet pie in the sky cures .... unless it's apple pie. No one knows what decision you should make, especially me. But it is time to relax. There may be no right or wrong decision. Do what you think is best, there will be more decisions later. It is a long journey. Best of wishes.
Since we are “brothers “ in this fight for our lives, I will try and be gentle. If you don’t believe in science, why do you see doctors who are trained in it? Hasn’t Trump’s hugely mistaken “feeling” about hydrochloriquin as a magical cure for Covid highlighted the fact that science rules. Find yourself good doctors trained in medicine - not quacks
A little late here, but my two cents: I had a similar initial diagnosis about a year ago, and similar plan on diet-only approach. My PSA went from 20 to 13 in 3 months of a keto diet (weight loss from 200 lb to 160 lb), but had a tough time staying on the diet. PSA then rose to about 30.
Having read Anthony Horan's book "The Big Scare" (re-published under two newer titles, as well), I now believe PC is intrinsically systemic in nature, so I plan to avoid both surgery and and radiation unless symptoms demand them. That leaves hormonal therapy as the only medical option.
BUT... that does not necessarily mean standard ADT, which depletes you of all estrogen as well as testosterone, worsening the side effects. I have opted for Casodex (anti-androgen) monotherapy. One more option for you to consider!
The one thing about cancer is that EVERYONE has slightly different problems and circumstances. I'm takin RS oil(Stevia extract with very low CBD) that I now make myself, but my morning functionality is not that great, takes at least a month to get used to high THC oils, whilst the product available in the US I'm lead t believe has very low THC.
The PSA level and the spread gives you the canvas you are working on, regardless if its spread I would think removal is vital. the normal pill supplemented hormone injection will I understand normally destroy sex life by the time the cancer is decimated- ,~18 months in my case( carried on treatment till 2 years ), but my bone cancer has re-appeared,... back to the fight.
Keep up the fight. Yes, everyone does have different circumstances. For my situation, I am getting a second opinion later this week. I am very scared of surgery. Getting my prostate out makes me think I am aborting.
There is a free online seminar in 10 parts starting tomorrow, runs May 12-21. Go to chrisbeatcancer.com, that might interest you. At least it is optimistic and gives us hope.
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Had lots of scans and MRIs looking for spread - none found, but haven't had a PSMA scan - yet.
For those of you still working with advanced PCa, and on ADT and Radiation. Did you still work a full schedule? 
Your advice on which radiotherapy treatment to choose next
Which treatment option best for recurrent oligo?
Researcher At Mayo Clinic Told Me To Take Boron
