Can ADT Alone Eliminate Individual Bone Mets?

[6357axbz]

Can ADT Alone Eliminate Individual Bone Mets?

[Tall_Allen]

It can sometimes shrink them so that they are undetectable, if that is what you mean.

[6357axbz in reply to Tall_Allen]

You’re saying undetectable but not dead?

[Tall_Allen in reply to 6357axbz]

Yes. There are usually some cells impervious to hormone therapy.

[6357axbz in reply to Tall_Allen]

I thought I read hear that some bone mets can heal in such a way new, healthy bone material grows over the shrunken met thus cutting it off from any food supply and killing it

[Tall_Allen in reply to 6357axbz]

ADT is not a cure for metastatic PC.

[6357axbz in reply to Tall_Allen]

I know that. Just wondering if a single bond met could be cured even though the blood is still filled with cancer cells.

[Tall_Allen in reply to 6357axbz]

If you want local control of a troublesome bone met, you would use radiation in addition to ADT.

[billyboy3 in reply to Tall_Allen]

exactly, there is no cure once PC has spread beyond the prostate, unless one gets beyond lucky with radiation and it happens to hit the very first location that pc spreads to, so an almost impossible thing to happen.

[Tall_Allen in reply to billyboy3]

Not even then. Thousands of cancer cells are in systemic circulation and are in tissue reservoirs before the first met is detected.

[billyboy3 in reply to Tall_Allen]

totally, I was just trying to make the point of what you stated. Once prostate cancer has spread outside the prostate, then no cure can be had, as of today.

[Schwah]

Yes. But huge mistake to use ADT alone when clinical studies have proven that Zytega along with ADT extends life significantly over ADT alone. And usually with minimal additional SEs.

Schwah

[6357axbz in reply to Schwah]

I consider Zytiga ADT

[Schwah in reply to 6357axbz]

Does that mean you are using Zytega too and didn’t mention it, or that you consider Zytega the same as ADT so you see no need to add it to your regimen?

If it’s the latter.....big mistake.

[6357axbz in reply to Schwah]

I’ve been on lupron plus Zytiga. In fact you and TA helped convince me to add Zytiga to lupron. They are both considered ADT, either separately or alone.

Currently on an ADT holiday.

[Geoff22 in reply to 6357axbz]

Good for you. I am hoping for a holiday. If my PSA is low enough

[billyboy3 in reply to 6357axbz]

called IHT, intermittent hormone treatment, which all men should start with until in repeated cycles this option no longer works, and one needs to add and change drugs to keep on with the fight.

[Break60 in reply to Schwah]

Well I’m only on estradiol and am undetectable do I don’t plan to add anything else .

[pjoshea13]

ADT selects for stem-like adaptations. Since PCa "stem cells" do not need androgen, they are unaffected by ADT.

-Patrick

[6357axbz in reply to pjoshea13]

So what PCa cells are affected by ADT?

[pjoshea13 in reply to 6357axbz]

Cells that are dependent on androgen.

But ADT also selects for adaptations whereby PCa cells get by on small amounts of androgen, & for cells that manufacture the androgen that they need.

-Patrick

[6357axbz in reply to pjoshea13]

So what PCa cells exist in an individual bone met? Cells that are dependent on androgen, PCa "stem cells" as you refer to them, All of the above, or only some subset?

[pjoshea13 in reply to 6357axbz]

I'm basically describing treatment-emergent cells caused be resistance to ADT.

-Patrick

[donits]

Hi 6357axbz,

I know about one young patient who was cured many years ago. His psa level was over 3,500.00 and he had numerous bone metastases. He received early chemotherapy, hormone therapies, radiotherapy, biphosphonate medication and other drugs. I can send details by email. It may be possible to contact him.

Happy New Year!

[6357axbz in reply to donits]

Thanks for the reply donits. No need to send the details but thank-you fie offering.

[TheTopBanana in reply to donits]

I would love the details!

[EdBar]

My bone mets do not show active disease. I’ve been on Lupron for nearly 6 years, and was on Xtandi for over 4 years. My PSA has been undetectable for over 5 years now. I am still hormone sensitive. I recently stopped Xtandi on the advice of Dr. Sartor due to SE’s of long term use. It was affecting my BP and the risk/reward was not worth it given my status.

The areas where bone mets were have turned into sclerotic or scarred areas so they never truly healed completely. It is possible that there are still dormant cells in these areas, I continue to monitor my PSA closely and could restart Xtandi if needed or Sartor says I could also opt for IMRT if activity is limited.

I continue to use Lupron, Avodart, Metformin and estradiol patches - part of the Snuffy Myers protocol that I’d been on for years.

Ed

[Litlerny]

Listen to Tall_Allen. When I was diagnosed I had one bone tumor on my R. Inferior pubic ramus. The ADT shrank it to the point that it “went invisible “ and did not show up on scans for well over 3 years...until 12/26/19 when it appeared again, along with a few other hot spots. I go back to the Jax Mayo on 1/9 to see what my M.O.’s plan is for treating them.

[6357axbz in reply to Litlerny]

Good example. Thanks

[Litlerny]

Hope it is helpful to you. Best wishes! 😎

[billyboy3]

Just keep on top of it boys. Once we have advanced PC, there is no cure so one must be aware of this and ensure that one gets regular testing and be ready to start anew on HDT, for less is always better.

I have been beyond lucky in terms of many repeated cycles of IHT and still responding.

[6357axbz in reply to billyboy3]

No cure yet

[billyboy3]

your right but the good guys are working on it for us, very hard I might add, so they need our support, so please, ALL MEN GO ON DRUG TRIALS IF YOU CAN!!!!

[Hidden]

You are right that with the current SOC, there is no cure. Just delay and wait. However, under the right circumstances and with a research approved ultra standard of care, cure is possible. However, there are many factors involved for success. I am most fortunate to be among those cured of metastatic prostrate cancer. Never give up.

Gourd Dancer

[billyboy3 in reply to Hidden]

Then you are the only one on the planet so please share with us what you did to achieve what is the impossible dream!

[Hidden in reply to billyboy3]

Billy, I have written extensively on the topic and posted the clinical trial and results on this site and others.

GD

[6357axbz in reply to billyboy3]

Tap on gourd_dancer’s name and his profile comes up describing much of his history

[billyboy3]

I am very happy for you G. As this is the first case I have come across with the results he noted, I and I think many others would sure like to get more details etc. on his various treatments, so that others can share in his extremely good fortune.

[Currumpaw]

Hey 6357axbz,

In an unusual case, not prostate cancer but with bone metastases, Dr. Ruth Heidrich became a vegan after having, I believe, breast cancer leading to a double mastectomy and also metastases to ribs. She refused chemo and radiation. Within a year the metastases were unable to be detected. She has run Ironman events even in her later years. I'm not saying it will work for everyone. Sometimes I think it is more about what happens between our ears than anything else with some people.

Currumpaw

[billyboy3]

I am not sure why these unproven so-called cured cases keep coming up on our site, nor why people put posts on other cancers or whatever onto this site.

This site is for advanced prostate cancer patients, that is what it is for, to inform, to assist with some background and support and to enable a man found in this end stage of the disease to make the best medically approved treatment options by providing information and the knowledge of those of us already in the war.

It is also to offer support and to educate us, provide a voice for us to heard from and in time, hope that it can evolve into an even stronger site where it becomes the gold standard in terms of where to turn when pc advances.

The fact is that there has never been a case where a man was clinically diagnosed with advanced prostate cancer and were then cured by any treatment or not.

I do not mean those who never had pc to start with, or for those who may have lucky enough to have had a great response to earlier treatments but for whom, have just bought more time than some with aggressive strains that are like a moving freight train.

Please stop posting these unproven hearsay type statement of a cure, because it does incredible damage to those new to the war and will grab onto anything that offers the magic pill-which as you go along in the war, will find out are nothing but snake oil salesmen

taking advantage of the situation of those less fortunate.

We are all in the war here and having to fight off these type of posts and comments is taking a toll on all of us, so please respect that prior to throwing in useless posts.