Anyone tried prolonged water fasting or dry fasting or intermittent fasting..juice fasting...and it's effects on psa levels

[Nirman]

Please share your experiences of anyone here tried it

[dbrooks_h]

Started silver bullet fast around 9pm last night, will break fast at 430pm today. Will contunine fast until it is proven that a different brand works better.

[dbrooks_h]

JK of course

[Hidden]

I fasted two five hundred calorie days for two out five days during my eight weeks of RT.. Fasting with veggie not fruit juice is ok . I’m now going to fast on sundays ... Take care and heal yourself however you feel fit .

[Einsteinium1]

What fasting does is help to get your body into ketosis. Ketosis is the state where your body is burning fat/ketone bodies instead of glucose/glucagon as it’s major fuel source. Why is this important?

Cancer cells are mutated cells that can only burn glucose to survive and thrive… The other 14 trillion healthy cells in your body, however, can burn glucose OR fat/ketone bodies (the preferred/cleaner fuel source).

There are countless anecdotal stories of people successfully starving the cancer out of their bodies utilizing a strict ketogenic diet. there are also numerous medical white paper studies supporting this practice.

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[j-o-h-n in reply to Einsteinium1]

Commercials even here........... can't get away from them...

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 12/04/2019 6:30 PM EST

[TFBUNDY]

I did 5 straight days of zero calories. Only black tea. Actually it was quite easy. I stopped due to scary vision problems. Followed by about 6 months of very restricted calories before my HIFU treatment. Surprise surprise I lost 15kg. Along the way my PSA halved, but before the last low PSA I had about a month compensating with two holidays involving lots of booze and good food I eat more or less normally at the moment but the weight stayed off. Now 70kg. PSA seems stable at 1.2 and clear MRI. I take lots of supps and live in hope.

[Frigataflyer]

The first thing I did after getting my alarming PSA result was to go on a 20 day strict water fast. By day 10 I felt so good I thought that There was no reason to limit the fast to,20 days, but my friends and family were freaking Out with concern over my not eating. I reasoned that if I could show a favorable trend in my PSA levels they would have to support my continuing on the fast, so on Day 12 I had another PSA, followed by another PSA on Day 19. My PSA results showed an increasing trend throughout the fast.

I am getting ready to do another fast, but I know it is not a magic bullet.

[Northcaptain in reply to Frigataflyer]

Scary to see the PSA not moving while fasting, this means the little Pca cells were still alive and producing their PSA. Pca is a polymorphic disease, what may be good at a stage is not necessarily good at another stage. And to make things more complicated, many stages are in the process at any times

I do regular 3-4 days fasting once per month. Not for PSA but rather for regulating my metabolism because after a few weeks i can get back into bad feeding habits. Every day i fast until noon and i try to limit my calorie intake at around 1800 per day or less. And to have at least 50 % of these coming from cereals, lentils, cruciferous, many other vegetables. Bio food as much as possible because the less you eat, the higher quality of what you eat is important. When you feed just twice a day, you need to have a lot of variety in your plate.

[Nirman in reply to Frigataflyer]

What kind of fasting you did? Zero calories? Water fasting? You were Talking any supplements or food or drinks?

[Mascouche in reply to Frigataflyer]

I have gone through the same thing as you where I noticed my PSA being higher than usual recently and I noticed your post here. I am curious to know how much of a jump you had noticed on Day 12 and Day 19 as well as your PSA value just before the fast. In my case, my PSA was 4.4 in August but after 7 days of fasting in September, it went up to 25. I did a 5-day fast in early December and my PSA went up to 31 now. I am thinking that maybe the autophagy that occurs during the fast is dissolving the tumor a little and those dead cells are being released temporarily in your bloodstream, increasing your PSA. The key question though is how long does such an increase last once the fast is over. My gut feeling is probably 2-3 months (that's how long a biopsy raises your PSA) but could be much less. Did you find out? And how are you doing now? Got better or worse?

[Frigataflyer in reply to Mascouche]

Have to do a little research will get back to you

[Mascouche in reply to Frigataflyer]

Very appreciated. If the psa / fasting relationship turns out to be what you and I think it is, we might be able to save others from wrong diagnostics based on momentarily inflated psa numbers do to a long fast. Hope you are doing well in your fight against cancer.

[MrG68 in reply to Mascouche]

Late to the party but…This is exactly my experience with fasting and psa. My psa was 5. I started IF and it slowly increased to 6, 7, 8 and eventually 10 on consecutive years.

Then I decided to do a couple of water only fasts separated by 2 or 3 day water fast between for around a month. My psa went to 13 in 6 weeks! I was also taking proteolytic pig pancreas enzymes daily (10 a day)

It’s alarming to see that and my doctor is looking at me as if to say I need to seriously consider conventional treatments. I’ve been studying a lot wrt PC and I’d never do this.

I suspect that the enzymes were eroding the fibrin for any cancer cells and my body was reacting to them with the fasting.

I’ve stopped the fasting for about a month to verify my suspicions. In theory I should now see a decrease - hopefully below 10.

Due another psa test soon. I’ll let your know the results.

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to MrG68]

I think you win this poster as your prize.

I’ve stopped the fasting for about a month to verify my suspicions. In theory I should now see a decrease - hopefully below 10.

In theory you need to see a MO and take his or her advise. IMHO.

ONLY I KNOW WHATS BEST

[MrG68 in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

Ha! What funny about that is the worlds top scientists and doctors cant explain how pain killers work - they just know they do. Maybe if they could explain that to me I might be more inclined to listen to what they had to say.

[nobull1 in reply to Mascouche]

Kind of a side topic I guess but relevant to this one.

I have been being tested for psa for a few years (no cancer) and usually about 1.5 at 60 years old. I had been water fasting for 19 days and had my psa done and was 8 which is out of wack and the doctor flipping out. So it appears that the water fasting will give false readings like I think I might have? Is that correct?

Sorry for the questions but there is little information about water fasting and psa that I could find.

[Mascouche in reply to nobull1]

I can't be absolutely certain since I've only found a few cases, basically us 3 here plus the mention on pubmed but that is what I believe to be the case.

[nobull1 in reply to Mascouche]

It is interesting as there are not a lot of cases as you mentioned of doing a psa while fasting but what you have said makes sense.

[nobull1 in reply to nobull1]

I had my PSA done again last week and the result was 1.3 which is just about where it was for the last three years. I had a 8+ in December and the only difference was on a 19 day water fast when I got my test completed. I am quite sure as the other couple men mentioned fasting for an extended time will elevate your PSA. If getting a prostate test do not do extended fasting anytime around when getting tested in my opinion.

[FCoffey]

I do intermittent fasting regularly, with all my meals within an 8 hour window.

I fast for 24 hours once a week.

Several times a year I fast for 3-5 days. Lots of water, nothing else.

Effect on PSA? Damifino. It's the N=1 problem, you can't do an experiment on yourself. There is enough good quality research on the effects of ketosis on cancers that I'm willing to do this.

[j-o-h-n]

Unfortunately when I fasted.. the time went so fast... I couldn't record anything...

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 12/04/2019 6:32 PM EST

[Cleodman]

I did both intermittent fasting 18:6 and prolonged water fasting up to 5 days in the past. I think it depends on where you are in the course of the disease and how overweight you are. I have a BMI of 21.7 so not that useful for me. The prolonged fasts I did were done several months ago and during a clinical trial and really made me unwell and I lost 16 lbs in 2 months making me very underweight. It took me several months to recover. It did nothing for the PSA or to slow progression of disease. I think that if you have local disease or low tumor burden metastatic disease and are overweight fasting “may” help decrease tumor burden through reduction of inflammation by decreasing the body’s adipose tissue stores but if you have metastatic disease with a heavy tumor burden and/or normal weight and don’t overeat it is more beneficial to eat a fresh food plant based diet for proper nourishment to help decrease tumor burden. You can’t starve cancer. It will always take up energy faster and more efficiently than normal cells. It’s the nature of the disease. I used to have a lot of faith in fasting but I don’t anymore.

There is the ongoing debate that “sugar” (glucose) “feeds cancer” but I was strict on a ketogenic diet for over 1 year with less than 25 g of net carbs daily intake and I actually bought a device that measured my blood ketone level with my target being between 5.0-7.0 mmol/L and still I progressed. I even paired this with fasting during that time.

[Chugach in reply to Cleodman]

Thanks for sharing Cleo. I appreciate the info. Stay strong brother!

[Mascouche]

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl... is the study that I first came upon. The rest is just the comments here and my own observation. Not saying it is a fact since we're only a small pool of people.

[Mascouche]

I already am on WFPB. I do not fast to starve cancer. I fast to refresh my worn out immune cells through autophagy about 4-5 times a year. The PSA rising after a fast is just a side-effect, not an objective. I just don't know yet exactly how long it takes to come back down. At diagnosis time, on Nov 2019, my PSA was of 79. Then in March of 2020 it was at 108 but I believe my biopsy from Jan 2020 is in part responsible for the jump. Then after my 18-days fast in later March/early April it was at 116. Now a year following my diagnostic, my PSA was of 31 when I last checked in early December right after a fast. It's higher than it was in October (I was at around 21 back then) but still it is lower today and a year ago. I once heard someone say that PSA should not be taken as a measure, but that it should be treated like a check engine light. It does not tell you much about what the issue is, just that you need to investigate. You need scans if you wish to really know how your cancer is doing.

[Mascouche]

I do a strict whole food plant based diet and ensure that I am not lacking in vitamins, minerals and trace minerals and take the usual to prevent metastasis from forming (brocoli sprouts, kale, etc..). I've had one injection of Lupron near the end of April 2020 but I do not react well to it as it makes me not want to live any longer. I've tried Casodex, taking 50mg from Oct 23 and was not too worse off but on Dec 2 since my PSA was at 25 my oncologist told me to up the dose to 150mg. So I first upped it to 100mg and began feeling worse. On Dec 15 my PSA was of 31.97 so I reluctantly upped the Casodex to 150mg and then became even worse off than on Lupron. I had not noticed at the time that my weight began to drop right on the day that I began 100mg. So on Dec 2, I weighted 160lbs and on Dec 22 I stopped Casodex and weighted 149. I communicated with my oncologist yesterday to tell him that I am now short of breath and that the Casodex instructions say that this can be a deadly side-effect and he recommended that I go to the emergency so that they can run tests of my heart and lungs and check for things like anemia and other. This morning I weight 147 and am so weak that it will be my wife who will be driving me to the hospital. Despite the cancer, I am in great shape and great health in August-Sep-October, before I started taking this damned medication.

[Mascouche]

I don't really count them. I get some from edamame and other beans. I also consume about a cup of nuts (walnut and brazilian nuts mostly but sometimes mixed nuts too) per day, I get some from oatmeal every second day or so. There is also a little in the fruits. I drink about 64oz of green juices/carrot juice per day to ensure I get easily absorbed nutrients. As I was mentioning earlier, I was feeling fantastic with my way of eating and lifestyle. It is only since I've begun to take Casodex that my body's chemistry has become messed up. The problem is that Casodex stays in your system a long time. The half-life is of 6 days but it takes 4 to 6 weeks to flush completely from your system or more depending on your liver. Thankfully my liver is great and detoxed (or at least it was before Casodex) but I can't remain as weak as I am now a couple weeks. Even cognitively, I am affected as I mix words and misunderstand lots of things.

[Mascouche]

I've read your bio and used it to write up mine just now. Today I went to the emergency room of the hospital where they confirmed that my issues are not Covid related and that all of my problems are indeed side-effects of Casodex (confusion, word switching, forgetful ness, weight changes, depression, weakness, etc...). All blood work looks good and the X-Rays of my lungs looks as healthy as those I had taken in 2014. So I just need to wait for 4-6 weeks in order for Casodex to be fully out of my system.

I've done 16:8 and 18:6 (eating only between noon and 18h00) from Jan 2020 (when I was Keto Pescatorian) up to September 20 2020 when I became strictly WFPB and tried the SquareOne program. Since there was no way for me to drink and eat all that is in SQ1 within those 6 hours, I stopped the IF to give SQ1 a real chance. But I am not up to try something else if it gives me a better outcome.

I am not skilled in the kitchen and if the ingredients are too exotic, then I don't even know where to find them in my neighborhood lol. But I would not mind giving your diet a try. I'll be sending you a message shortly.