I am not thankful: I know I'm supposed... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer
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I am not thankful

CantChoose
CantChoose
90 Replies

I know I'm supposed to be. Live in the moment. Be grateful for the time. Positivity makes a difference! Count your blessings.

Bah, humbug.

A conscious brain is a blessing and a curse. If gazelles could watch YouTube clips of lions eating their brethren alive, they wouldn't be able to keep leaping around.

*God, grant me the serenity to eat my Thanksgiving turkey and say what I'm thankful for without being truthful.* Amen. Bring on the pie.

90 Replies
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LearnAll

The society/country we live in gives us a set of beliefs and when those beliefs fall flat in the face of reality...this is how we feel.

You are staring in the eyes of reality and all those beliefs are crumbling down. I think it is good....because only truth liberates ! It can be painful and ugly...but only truth liberates.

You are lucky to know that all this is humbug ! its a great new insight. All false beliefs are cracking and dawn of "what Is" is coming

When beliefs given by religion, society, family , community fall apart...it gives the way to real truth to appear...I am happy for you...this frustration is divine as it will lead you to ultimate reality and truth. The "shoulds" are dropping and "Is " is rising .

Sometimes being ostrich and putting head in the sand helps ….albeit temporarily.

14 likes
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westof
westof
in reply to LearnAll

Hmm... Your reply carried me back to my college days. I had taken a course in existential philosophy and I thought of the father of existentialism, SØREN KIERKEGAARD (1813–1855) and his "3 stages of life":

"The Problems of Boredom, Anxiety, and Despair

Boredom, anxiety, and despair are the human psyche’s major problems, and Kierkegaard spends most of his writing diagnosing these three ills. People are bored when they are not being stimulated, either physically or mentally. Relief from boredom can only be fleeting. Passion, a good play, Bach, or a stimulating conversation might provide momentary relief from boredom, but the relief doesn’t last. Boredom is not merely a nuisance: a psychologically healthy human must find some way to avert boredom. Conflicts between one’s ethical duty and one’s religious duty cause anxiety. Social systems of ethics often lead one to make choices that are detrimental to one’s spiritual health, and vice versa. The tension between these conflicting duties causes anxiety, and like boredom, anxiety must be escaped for a person to be happy. Finally, despair is a result of the tension between the finite and the infinite. Humans are frightened of dying, but they are also frightened of existing forever. Kierkegaard believed that everyone would die but also that everyone had an immortal self, or soul, that would go on forever. Boredom and anxiety can be alleviated in various ways, but the only way to escape despair is to have total faith in God. Having total faith in God, however, was more than simply attending church regularly and behaving obediently. Faith required intense personal commitment and a dedication to unending self-analysis. Kierkegaard thought that having total faith in God, and thus escaping despair, was extremely difficult as well as extremely important.

The Aesthetic as the First Stage on Life’s Way

Kierkegaard proposed that the individual passed through three stages on the way to becoming a true self: the aesthetic, the ethical, and the religious. Each of these “stages on life’s way” represents competing views on life and as such potentially conflicts with one another. Kierkegaard takes the unusual step of having each stage of life described and represented by a different pseudonymous character. Thus, it becomes too difficult to ascertain which propositions Kierkegaard himself upholds. This fits with Kierkegaard’s characteristic tendency to avoid dictating answers. He preferred that readers reach their own conclusions.

The aesthetic is the realm of sensory experience and pleasures. The aesthetic life is defined by pleasures, and to live the aesthetic life to the fullest one must seek to maximize those pleasures. Increasing one’s aesthetic pleasures is one way to combat boredom, and Kierkegaard described many methods of doing so. He proposes that the anticipation of an event often exceeds the pleasure of the event itself, and so he suggests ways of drawing out anticipation. One suggestion is to leave all of your mail for three days before opening it. Unplanned events can, at times, lead to pleasures as great as anticipation, but the pleasure of planned events is almost entirely in the anticipation.

The importance of the aesthetic is acknowledged, but it is also presented as an immature stage. The aesthete is only concerned with his or her personal enjoyment, and because aesthetic pleasure is so fleeting, an aesthete has no solid framework from which to make coherent, consistent choices. Eventually, the pleasures of the aesthetic wear thin, and one must begin seeking the ethical pleasures instead. The ethical life actually offers certain pleasures the aesthetic life cannot. An aesthete can never do something solely for the good of someone else, but we all know that doing things for others without personal motives can actually be incredibly enjoyable.

The Ethical as the Second Stage on Life’s Way

Ethics are the social rules that govern how a person ought to act. Ethics are not always in opposition to aesthetics, but they must take precedence when the two conflict. The aesthetic life must be subordinated to the ethical life, as the ethical life is based on a consistent, coherent set of rules established for the good of society. A person can still experience pleasure while living the ethical life. The ethical life serves the purpose of allowing diverse people to coexist in harmony and causes individuals to act for the good of society. The ethical person considers the effect his or her actions will have on others and gives more weight to promoting social welfare than to achieving personal gain. The ethical life also affords pleasures that the aesthetic does not. Aesthetics steers one away from consistency, since repetition can lead to boredom. An ethical person doesn’t simply enjoy things because they’re novel but makes ethical choices because those choices evoke a higher set of principles. Kierkegaard uses marriage as an example of an ethical life choice. In marriage, the excitement of passion can quickly fade, leading to boredom and a diminishing of aesthetic pleasure. However, by consistently acting for the good of one’s spouse, one learns that there are enjoyments beyond excitement. Still, the ethical life does little to nurture one’s spiritual self. The ethical life diverts one from self-exploration since it requires an individual to follow a set of socially accepted norms and regulations. According to Kierkegaard, self-exploration is necessary for faith, the key requirement for a properly religious life.

The Religious as Third Stage on Life’s Way

Kierkegaard considers the religious life to be the highest plane of existence. He also believes that almost no one lives a truly religious life. He is concerned with how to be “a Christian in Christendom”—in other words, how to lead an authentically religious life while surrounded by people who are falsely religious. For Kierkegaard, the relationship with God is exclusively personal, and he believed the large-scale religion of the church (i.e., Christendom) distracts people from that personal relationship. Kierkegaard passionately criticized the Christian Church for what he saw as its interference in the personal spiritual quest each true Christian must undertake.

In the aesthetic life, one is ruled by passion. In the ethical life, one is ruled by societal regulations. In the religious life, one is ruled by total faith in God. One can never be truly free, and this causes boredom, anxiety, and despair. True faith doesn’t lead to freedom, but it relieves the psychological effects of human existence. Kierkegaard claims that the only way to make life worthwhile is to embrace faith in God, and that faith necessarily involves embracing the absurd. One has faith in God, but one cannot believe in God. We believe in things that we can prove, but we can only have faith in things that are beyond our understanding. For example, we believe in gravity: we feel its effects constantly, which we recognize as proof of gravity’s existence. It makes no sense, though, to say we have faith in gravity, since that would require the possibility that, someday, gravity would fail to materialize. Faith requires uncertainty, and thus we can have faith in God because God is beyond logic, beyond proof, and beyond reason. There’s no rational evidence for God, but this is exactly what allows people to have faith in him.

The Pleasures of Repetition and Recollection

Repetition and recollection are two contrasting ways of trying to maximize enjoyment. Repetition serves multiple purposes for Kierkegaard. First, it has an important aesthetic function. People want to repeat particularly enjoyable experiences, but the original pleasure is often lost in the repeating. This is due to the expectation that things will be just the same the second time as the first time. The pleasure of expectation clouds the fact that the original experience wasn’t undertaken with a specific idea of the joy it would cause. Repetition can produce powerful feelings but usually only when the experience occurs unplanned. In this case, the pleasure might even be magnified at the sudden resurgence of happy memories—in other words, the recollection. There is pleasure in planned repetition, but it is a comfortable pleasure, not an exciting one. While repetition offers the joy of anticipation—joy that seldom materializes in the actual event—recollection offers the joy of remembering a particularly happy event. Recollection can be cultivated along with the imagination to increase one’s day-to-day aesthetic pleasure. Often, recalling a pleasant occurrence is more enjoyable than repeating the same event: remembering the Christmases of your childhood is often more pleasant than Christmas is in adulthood. Indeed, much of the pleasure of Christmas, for an older person, can come from nostalgia. The pleasures of recollection, which are best enjoyed alone, are well suited to the aesthetic life. Unplanned repetition is a truly aesthetic pleasure as well, while planned repletion, such as that represented by marriage, affords more ethical pleasures than aesthetic ones".

Thanks for waking up an old brain. Are we on the same page?

Best

15 likes
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TFBUNDY
TFBUNDY
in reply to westof

Bloody hell... I fell asleep.... Cheers

9 likes
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Brbnbrn
Brbnbrn
in reply to westof

I thank you for the time and effort you took to post this. I thoroughly enjoyed it and find I agree with 98% of it. I see it in my own life. I never went to college so have missed out on the opportunity to be lead to study such things as existential philosophy. Thanks for the summary!

1 like
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westof
westof
in reply to Brbnbrn

Hmm... Thank you for your kind words. However, CantChoose really deserves the credit.

His post triggered the thought. As far as effort, I just looked for the best online summary and copied and pasted!

Best

3 likes
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Brbnbrn
Brbnbrn
in reply to westof

Lol..! Well, I loved this whole discussion. I appreciate and am thankful for everyone on this site. You all have been a Godsend many times. 🙏🧗‍♀️

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DrWrite
DrWrite
in reply to LearnAll

YES! YES! YES! So good to see the voice of reason here!

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gregg57

There's no way that you are "supposed to feel" so it's OK to feel the way you do and no one should judge that.

I make an effort to be positive, just to improve my quality of life. It's not always possible to maintain that and I don't beat myself up when I can't. Having this disease is very difficult for all of us. There are a lot of ups and downs, sometimes more down than ups for sure.

Wishing for you to have peace this holdiay season and also for those around you to help lift you up. From someone who knows.

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Kaliber

I hear you my brother. This shyt is a double edged sword , isn’t it ? Every day we wake up is another day we get to spend with our families and friends.... and an opportunity to get out and try to enjoy a little bit more of life ..... right ??? A real treasure ....

Well .... not so fast there buckeroo ... but it’s also another day to wake up deep in adt side effects ugliness ... so many things wrong that just getting to the toilet without too much difficulty is a win sometimes .... living an extremely debilitating existence makes enjoying those woke day opportunities a major effort that nets varying amounts of limited success. Our loved ones getting to watch us stumble , sweat , shuffle and huff and puff just trying to get around to do anything.

Sometimes I feel upbeat but I feel screwed a lot too. Yayahahahaya guess I need another handful of benzos and a nap yayahahahaya

It’s thanksgiving alright ... I guess I’m thankful... whatever... 😁😁💪💪🤯. Ain’t this fun ?

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LearnAll

Supposed to do this ! Supposed to do that ! Should think this way ! should feel that way !

Yes ,,,Cant choose ! This is all humbug...crap given to us by society...

Declare yourself free from all humbug...declare yourself liberated....Feel the way YOU want to feel...do what you feel like doing....absolute freedom …your life if only yours....eat the pie..OR throw the pie in garbage can....its all your choice ! BTW..I am going to eat cauliflower made in shape of turkey...Have a light beer....and yell,,,,,, hell with all beliefs..I am free !

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TFBUNDY
TFBUNDY
in reply to LearnAll

Don't invite me to dinner...! Cheers

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LearnAll
LearnAll
in reply to TFBUNDY

You are welcome to dinner at my place. Condition is you will have to eat Cauliflowerturkey, Cabbage soup, Tomato ketchup, Fat free, home made yogurt, lentils cooked with Turmeric, Garlic and Ginger. Only two wheat breads. And after dinner, Special GunPowder brand Chinese Green tea. Acceptable ???

This is the menu for everyone at my place. Sorry..forgot to tell that one Corona Light beer (100 Calories) is bonus item.

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Lulu700
Lulu700
in reply to LearnAll

What time should we be there? I like healthy eating .

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LearnAll
LearnAll
in reply to Lulu700

I will have to ask my wife....she is my boss and boss of the household ! I appointed her to Boss position many years ago.

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Lulu700
Lulu700
in reply to LearnAll

Yes, I too gave up the reins and follow my boss lady .. peace to you and her thoughout these holidays ..

1 like
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monte1111
monte1111
in reply to LearnAll

Chuck E Cheese allowed each adult at granddaughter's birthday party 2 beers. That is how I learned all about how Black Markets originate and thrive.

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LearnAll
LearnAll
in reply to monte1111

Right...One light beer is my trick to get you into the door of my house..so that I can make you eat sulforaphane rich foods, anti inflammatory stuff and some anti oxidants too.

Wean you off $12000 a month drugs which are causing toxicity.....to my brothersAlso hurting our loving life partners and our childrens financial wellbeing.

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DS_WAVL
DS_WAVL
in reply to LearnAll

Many years ago, a wise therapist told me, "There you go again. Shoulding all over yourself!"

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Tall_Allen

You have no control over the disease, and no control over the emotions that arise in you because you have no control over the disease. With practice, you can become aware of those emotions as they arise, and you can choose to not let them be all of who you are, at least not all the time. You can learn to watch your emotions come and go, like trains in a station. Sometimes that helps.

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DS_WAVL
DS_WAVL
in reply to Tall_Allen

The Guest House

This being human is a guest house.

Every morning a new arrival.

A joy, a depression, a meanness,

some momentary awareness comes

as an unexpected visitor.

Welcome and entertain them all!

Even if they are a crowd of sorrows,

who violently sweep your house

empty of its furniture,

still, treat each guest honorably.

He may be clearing you out

for some new delight.

The dark thought, the shame, the malice.

meet them at the door laughing and invite them in.

Be grateful for whatever comes.

because each has been sent

as a guide from beyond.

— Jellaludin Rumi,

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zenbee13
zenbee13
in reply to DS_WAVL

Ahhh Rumi, who else sees it all so well

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Currumpaw

Emotions TA?

Very detached and analytical while deciding how much loss of the quality of life is acceptable.

One's independence may be the most cherished aspect of life.

Mahasamadhi

Currumpaw

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Tall_Allen

You are never detached from your emotions. You may be consciously aware of them, or you may not be. Either way, they guide your decision making. Without them, you would be unable to make any decisions.

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Currumpaw

Hey T_A!

That is EXACTLY why one should be conscious of their emotions and make every effort to disassociate one's self from one's emotions. ---Reason and logic should always prevail over superstition, supernaturalism and emotion when making a decision as what is and isn't acceptable to continue one's life.

Not only did I watch my most beloved family member die of cancer when I was a child, I grew up quickly because of that. I also worked in the funeral business for nearly 6 years at a busy funeral home with about 185 calls per year in my last two years there. I believe that I did every embalming but one in my last 3 years.

A required course, "The Psychology of Grief", which spent some time on the five stages of grief as outlined by Kubler-Ross. I would say that the stage that we should be in when we make that decision about continuing or ending our existence would the final stage, acceptance.

An old saying--by "They" and "They" are almost always right--"Nobody gets out alive!"

Currumpaw

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Tall_Allen

I disagree with Kubler-Ross - there is no right way to grieve and no set stages people go through. The last thing a grieving person needs to hear is "you diddn't go through your anger or acceptance (or any other imagined stage) yet." Kubler-Ross looked at people who were self-grieving (over a fatal diagnosis), not people who were grieving for others. For the scientists out there, her conjectures have never been statistically proven.

I don't think it is possible or desireable to disassociate oneself from one's emotions.

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Currumpaw

Hey T_A!

An article that you may enjoy reading.

Copy both lines or you will not access the article.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

Grief Theories Series: Exploring the Different Studies on ...

frazerconsultants.com/2018/...

___________________________________________________________________________________________

An excerpt:

Kübler-Ross Misunderstandings

For as popular as the Kübler-Ross Model is, it’s generally misunderstood. Even Kübler-Ross noted in a later book, On Grief and Grieving, that the five stages are not linear and they don’t follow a specific pattern.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

People and their emotions are "messy" --always have been and always will be.

Dealing and interacting with people isn't like building a high performance engine and using plastigauge to determine tolerances. People have a wide range of reactions, emotions and the intensity of emotions. You can't dispose of a "people" because it doesn't meet spec. A familiar object, smell or memory can change how one reacts to a loss. Sometimes people need to go back to a stage for awhile.

For those of us left behind, it is said that on average, the memory of a loved one that has passed goes through our minds 100,000 times before the pain of the loss, the intensity of the grief, begins to subside.

It can be very different. I've seen calling hours and memorial services that resemble

"Old Home Weeks", catch up time. During others the grief is so evident and intense that it is almost palpable.

You are right about the five stages of grief. There is no set time or formula.

The fact is, nobody ever identified or defined grieving as Kuber-Ross did. Her work was groundbreaking.

People are messy.

Currumpaw

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mwykes
mwykes
in reply to Currumpaw

Agreed. In a psychology class (years ago) I gave a presentation with my team about Kubler-Ross's concept. We changed the name to "Keebler " Ross and presented the whole thing as a cookie recipe that you can make a lot of different ways. You can over bake or under cook it, use the wrong ingredients, mix the wrong ratios, or even just leave the stuff mixed up and let it do whatever it does. And, to top it off, the recipe comes with only a list of general ingredients and the very basic steps from "begin" to "end (ish)."Something may eventually come out of the general recipe, but everybody's exact output is different.

Our point was - in an imperfect grad student strained analogy

- was that Kubler-Ross provided only a basic recipe for grief but did not tell everyone how to do it.

It's messy for sure.

I kinda cringe right now thinking about how "creative" our team was in that class. At least we handed out Keebler Elfwiches - everybody liked that.

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Currumpaw
Currumpaw
in reply to mwykes

Hey mwykes!

An impressive way to illustrate your point--that there are many variables when dealing with the complex, human psyche.

I read your intro. Nice to meet you too! You have been through it. Stay strong to stay here as long as you find some enjoyment.

Currumpaw

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Dachshundlove

Adversity is endemic to this life. No way around it— we only respond and how we respond is a choice.

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JimVanHorn

I'm grateful for surviving cancer after eleven years. I'm grateful for each erection and orgasm. I'm glad to be alive, have friends, have a church that prays for me, have meetings to go to, have many friends to eat meals with and have two wonderful cats! I have a good life and I wish you the same.

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TFBUNDY
TFBUNDY
in reply to JimVanHorn

Praise be, and many stiffies to come....

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Currumpaw

Hey JimVanHorn!

Stick around for your cats! The adjective preceding "cats" tells all.

Currumpaw

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monte1111
monte1111
in reply to Currumpaw

I have teenage mutant cats.

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Currumpaw
Currumpaw
in reply to monte1111

Hey monte1111!

My cats are middle aged. They are in my will. Just in case!

Currumpaw

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monte1111
monte1111
in reply to Currumpaw

That's great! I think whoever gets my house should get my cats. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

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Irun

Only you know how you feel and how you react to those feelings.

When I was first diagnosed I was running listening to music when a song by Julian Lennon came on called “saltwater”. There was a line in it that stopped me dead and changed the way I feel from that day forwards. It was “what will I think of me the day that I die”.

It has spurred m eon to run and enjoy life, raise huge amounts of money and awareness for Prostate Cancer UK and make the most of every day.

On ones death bed one won’t say “I wish I spent more time agre/sad/crying/alone” but one may say “I wish I spent more time staying in touch with friends, going outside, creating good memories for all and above all doing some good for others”

It works for me, I still have bad moments but I have learnt to bail out of those quickly and focus on the good.

Hope all my brothers here find a positive thing to be proud of today and every day.

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chascri
chascri
in reply to Irun

I like that “bail out of the bad moments quickly and focus on the good”. Sounds like good advice to me.

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MarkBC

Cancer is life altering and there is no correct way to respond to it. Nobody should criticize you for feeling the way that you do.

I was diagnosed last year at 55 years of age. I went through a range of emotions. I cried some nights. I know I am not going to live into my 70s or 80s as I expected. When I get feeling down, I think of the many other people who are worse off than me:

- the millions who have struggled every day of their whole life with a severe disability.

- the hundreds of millions of people who live in extreme poverty

- the many people my age or younger who die suddenly in accidents or heart attacks with no opportunity to bring closure to their lives.

I'm not thankful that I have terminal cancer. I am thankful that I have learned what is most important in life ... the family and friends that we love and cherish. Those relationships have become the primary focus of my life.

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DS_WAVL
DS_WAVL
in reply to MarkBC

Yes, nobody should criticize one for feeling "x."

Especially the one feeling it.

Life is tough enough. Learn to be kind to yourself.

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Aynoy

Interestingly enough my hubby is feeling the same way.. I see some very introspective and long detailed posts. My thought the holidays intensive emotions , even past issues.not dealt with .. I know it’s corny and annoying to say.but note what you are grateful for,you are loved and needed. Your family and friends love you even though you are feeling so lonely

Happy thanksgiving giving

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Psychmed

What a great post. Although it has been a long time since college and I can feel the fog rolling in. I recall that somewhere in Kierkegaard's writings someone climbs a hill and shakes his fist and rages at God. How can someone so supposedly loving allow all this pain? If you don't get angry now and then you don't know what's happening. But there's a lot of good stuff happening too. God bless you.

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monte1111
monte1111
in reply to Psychmed

I'm good at the rage part. Don't know if I can climb a hill and shake my fist though.

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Currumpaw

Hey CantChoose!

Looked at some of the replies. References to psychology and philosophy. The title of my last course in psych was " Advanced Techniques in Counseling". Received my usual A and also learned that I shouldn't try to counsel anyone. Give me 15 minutes with a DSM5 and I can be the life of the party among people that don't know me! Rest assured, I'll pick an interesting psychopathology!

At my second appointment with "my people'" to meet my oncologist as well as some others, the second in the line was a counselor. Did I need any "help"? Do I need to talk with someone? I thanked her and declined the offer saying that I have already made necessary decisions. There was a bit of a questioning look. I extrapolated on my previous statement without offering extraneous material--" I will euthanize myself when I decide it is my time. I'm good with that". If I ever needed--No. Thanks, I'm good.

I knew that that there was someone who would tell me how I should look at my situation and be grateful for what I have. I know who and what I am. I don't need someone trying to change me now. I have enough problems without someone who thinks I have a weak personality and need psychological or spiritual "guidance" dealing with my disease.

I lived with my grandparents as a child. My grandfather and I were closer to each other, I think, than either of us were to anyone else. When I was nine he was diagnosed with lung cancer. Probably mesothelioma from working in the trade. He had replaced some ornate woodwork on the ceiling of a Catholic Church. The ceiling between the wood work was asbestos. I watched as the disease slowly killed an active, strong, master carpenter. He was 5' 11" and weighed 66 lbs. just before his death. We brought him home the last week he was alive. The nursing home he had been transferred to when the hospital could do no more had given him cold asparagus on toast as his dinner. He was too ill, too weakened and in too much pain to use the utensils to even try to eat. I stayed home from school that last week to help care for him. I remember the smell of the cancer that was in his body. He could only manage a few spoons of vanilla ice cream and water with which I helped him. I was with him when he died. He took several, long, labored breaths, the last ending in a death rattle as his body tensed and then relaxed. It was December 16th. I believe he refused to die as long as he could to be with me.

That was the day I made my decision about euthanasia even though I didn't know the formal term.

I do not make a good "prisoner"! Cold asparagus on toast.

We all define our own quality of life and the quality that is acceptable.

Mahasamadhi--

Enjoy Thanksgiving. This two year vegan won't say anything about---

Currumpaw

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mjbach
mjbach
in reply to Currumpaw

Can you recommend a reliable source to educate oneself about what you are speaking of? It is difficult to keep up to date on where in the US it is legal and my husband agrees with you.

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whatsinaname
whatsinaname
in reply to mjbach

I have come to the delightful conclusion that "euthanasia" is not at all required.

Peaceful and calm dying under "hospice" like conditions beats "euthanasia" hands down, imho.

Just one book should suffice. Read "Dying Well" by Ira Byock. Available on Amazon.

This is my opinion and others may disagree.

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Currumpaw

Hey whatsinaname!

You are correct. It isn't, however, an opinion. It is how we value that in life which makes life worth living.

Independence cannot have a price placed on it. Some can make the decision to give it up. There are others who cannot.

"Give me liberty or give me death".

I view the disease as a prison. The door is still ajar at this time----

Currumpaw

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whatsinaname

Read the book, if you can make the time. I read it in a couple of hours.

It just "might" give you another perspective. Otoh, it might not.

I was a firm proponent of "euthanasia" before reading this and other books.

I have completely changed my views now.

Btw, I do not think it needs any courage whatsoever to commit suicide. On the contrary :-(

Cheers and all the very best, Currumpaw !!

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Currumpaw

He whatsinaname!

Thank you.

A couple excerpts from the review posted by Amazon:

"Dying Well brings us to the homes and bedsides of families with whom Dr. Byock has worked, telling stories of love and reconciliation in the face of tragedy, pain, medical drama, and conflict."

"It is a companion for families, showing them how to deal with doctors, how to talk to loved ones"

I do not have close family. I choose not to try to become close to the family I have. I will ensure that one of them will be compensated to tidy up the ends of life I leave behind.

I have not stayed close to friends. I had friends who would have liked to be closer but the damage the fluoroquinolones have done to me has changed me. I no longer "fit".

Because of the treatment I chose and the damage to my body by the repeated use of fluoroquinolones I am considering donating my body to Brown University. Imaging already shows the fluoroquinolone damage. How effective the treatment was or wasn't. Brown Urology will be interested. I am the third patient Brown Urology has had who chose this treatment. I have met one of the other two.

The upside of donating my body is that whatever is left will be cremated --for free! I'd prefer that a funeral home or crematory not make money from my death!

The fact is, I wish to be alone when I die.

Currumpaw

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whatsinaname

Hi Currumpaw,

Your situation does appear to be a lot different from most others. I actually think that in your situation (as I understand it), you are doing the right thing.

I give you enormous credit for taking an iconoclastic decision and standing by it. Kudos !!

Nice talking to you on this board. I love people who think differently.

Cheers and all the very best in life and death !!!

Carlos de Souza.

Bombay, India.

28th November, 2019

1 like
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Lulu700

I salute you in Bombay !

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Lulu700

You have so much courage ..You are correct ..suicide is taking the easy way out .. and not taking into mind others left behind ..I do understand however that if one is in a state of constant madness and suffering that they might choose to give up the ghost to end the pain .. this isn’t a logical mind ...mental illness is as disabling as cancer . Put them both together and anything is possible .. none of us #4 guys think that we can out live .. or outrun APC ... at some point we’ll all submit ... I agree that suicide harms loved ones left behind . Not in my plans ...On the other hand when the suffering becomes to great to bare ,death with be a welcomed mercy ....and non will be able to run from it ... I’m thinking about living ......Take care ...🦃

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Currumpaw
Currumpaw
in reply to mjbach

Hey mjbach!

I think there are now 8 states that allow assisted suicide, death with dignity or end of life options.

Naturally one must be terminal. Most require a relationship with a doctor for 6 months prior and an appointment to express one's wishes to end one's life with an intervening 15 day period to reassess that choice. I have read that one must be a resident for a certain length of time in these states.

A couple links:

Hawaii Becomes 7th State To Legalize Medically Assisted ...

huffpost.com/entry/hawaii-l...

An interesting video at the end of this one:

New Jersey the Latest State to Allow Terminally Ill to ...

reason.com/2019/08/01/new-j...

Please note that it is also said that many do not go through with it. Just the knowledge that it is now a choice is a comfort for them.

Currumpaw

1 like
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WSOPeddie
WSOPeddie
in reply to Currumpaw

I doubt that my state -- Arizona -- will ever allow that.

3 likes
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Lulu700
Lulu700
in reply to WSOPeddie

I agree..

3 likes
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monte1111
monte1111
in reply to WSOPeddie

Just go to Texas and litter. They'll take care of everything for you.

2 likes
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Lulu700
Lulu700
in reply to monte1111

Better to drive around Texas ...

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strummer
strummer
in reply to mjbach

Compassion and Choices is a good web site for info. We live in Colorado where it is legal - under certain conditions to end your life with medical assistance. Having this option is a comfort to us

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Tmetz

Thank you for your honesty. Feel like that sometimes but never voiced it

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lincolnj8

I too have metastases in many areas, including ribs, spine, legs, organs and lymph nodes. This Christmas will be 2 years. A month or two on alberton?, a hormone blocker. Then on to Zytiga with prednisone, oscal, a lupron shot every 3 months, plus zometa infusions every 3 months (for the bones. Never any radiation. 2 years ago was the surprise. I was is great health at the age of 66, regular doctor visits, never a psa test. went to the er, put in the hospital. PSA at 800, phosphate number at 3000. They gave me 4 pints of blood to see if I would live. Was going to do 6. For me the meds worked. Bitter? Yes at first. My wife was too. Decided to make the best of what time I have. So many much younger have had their lives cut short, so I decided not to be a baby about all this. I'm staying positive for my wife. She just was cleared from her breast cancer. When I got sick I begged her to get a mammogram. She did and they caught it early. What I'm trying to say is we can go out of this world miserable (which I am, lol) or we can just make the best of it. We know that we all have our time.

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DS_WAVL
DS_WAVL
in reply to lincolnj8

Nobody gets out of this game alive. When Grimmy knocks, he won't take no for an answer.

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Lulu700
Lulu700
in reply to DS_WAVL

I hear him knocking but he can’t come in just right now .. when he kicks down the door we’re all boarding the bus ... hahaha ..

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Lulu700
Lulu700
in reply to lincolnj8

Good that she caught it early ..🙏

1 like
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lincolnj8
lincolnj8
in reply to Lulu700

A small surgery, but it never spread..

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Lulu700
Lulu700
in reply to lincolnj8

That is good .. 🙏

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Dayatatime

I was diagnosed in early 2016 at 46 and been through a gamut of emotions. Through it I lost a relationship because I couldn't accept what this disease did to me. She was willing to work through it but I struggled with trying. I knew what we had and how much it changed things and was embarrassed to even try. No hormones and no ability and before all this I had it all and knew what she was used to. She held on for 2 years until we just drifted apart through lack of intimacy. She was a good woman and I don't hold it against her. She was as scared as I was to try out of fear and didn't want to push me.

I almost let time ruin my ability to function as a man. I was so down on myself and angry what this damn disease took from me that I didn't care. I felt nothing would ever be the same again so why not let what I had left shrivel up to nothing. The only thing I had left were my hobbies which kept me happy enough but didn't think I needed anyone else. Man was I wrong.

Then one day I woke up and said I'm only 49 and still have a lot going for me. I worked on things instead of devaluing myself. I learned to accept what I was handed and not fight it so much. Do I miss the natural ability to have sex and get tired of worrying about whats next all the time?? Absofuckinglutelty!!! Do I have a million reasons why I should be thankful?? Hell yeah!! I have 3 beautiful daughters that are all strong powerful women that look up to me. There is so much in life to enjoy that isn't stamped cancer. Sometimes you have to look beyond and in-between the shit we deal with. I actually found someone who is incredible and we are in the most intimate relationship I have ever been in. We do have sex occasionally (with the help of trimix) but it is so much more than that. I never thought it possible to be in a relationship again or even at the level we are at. It's because I didn't define it with cancer. I chose to defy it and let love and positive emotion in.

We didn't choose this disease however we can choose how we deal with it. I have learned not accepting it, anger and negativity won't get you far. In fact it will push people away. That's whether you have cancer or not.

Ron

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Lulu700
Lulu700
in reply to Dayatatime

Hey Ron , that loss of intimacy is a relationship killer . Sex oh well ,many of us can’t do that , but losing the touch and intimacy the a real human rip off of APC . Sucks man . Sounds like you do have love and that you’re in a good place now . Congrats ...

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pilot52

It has always been pretty easy for me to stay happy. This is my second stage 4 battle . Will not bore anyone with the details... It required me including this go around to spend over 8 months at MD Anderson...when I was on campus walking the halls I would see all the children pulling a chemo trees and it made me feel small when I started to have a pity party...I flew Haiti relief for 2 months and the horrors I saw stay with me today ..I still remain an Angel Flight Pilot....and active...Philosophy withstanding can be interpreted like religion and how you choose to look at this is everyones choice. I look at real life situations , and I am thankful I am here to fly tomorrow! I am not some idiot who is living bitter and blind. I choose to Peloton, and work out , and keep so active that I wake up laughing....when I get a bad number I have a 6 hour shock period and then decide how to handle it...I have everything set up if everything goes south . I choose to be a fixer my choice...Blue Skies to all and for those who knows me....Sky King flies again!!! Penny says woof!!!

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DS_WAVL

It’s OK. Most of us have been there. There are no “shoulds” or “supposed to” in this business. You are where you are. No point in denying any part of your experience.

I started out asking, “Why me?” Then one day, I thought, “Hmm, why NOT me?”

I’m sorry you joined our club, but we’re all glad you’re here to walk beside us to whatever extent you wish.

All the best on your new journey!

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Litlerny

“Always look on the bright side of life...” (song sung by the title character as he was being crucified in Monty Python’s The Life of Brian).

One day long ago (long before my Stage 4 PCa Dx) I was having a very bad day at work, and was feeling really sorry for myself, so I decided to take my pity party out for a walk. A woman and her son approached me, and as they came closer I could see that he had Down’s Syndrome. As they passed he looked up at me with a huge smile and in a cheerful voice said “good morning! Nice day!” It put my woes in perspective. He had every reason to be depressed, angry, bitter, and negative at the hand he had been dealt in life. But he wasn't. I think of him a lot whenever I start feeling sorry for myself, or when I come across anyone who is dealing with worse things than I have. It always makes me thankful for all the beautiful things in life that I have been given. I think he might have been an angel or some other messenger. Whatever he was, that one brief passing changed my outlook on life. Ya, I still have my down days, but for the most part I still honestly feel blessed.

Everyone in here is in the same boat, but we are all different, and we deal with setbacks and bad stuff that we have no control over (like our Stage 4 PC diagnoses) in different ways. There is no right or wrong way to feel. All of them are coping mechanisms.

Wishing all of you a nice Thanksgiving. 🦃

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Lulu700
Lulu700
in reply to Litlerny

There is always someone that has is worse than us . Happy Thanksgiving .

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Break60

Gees! Really? Go to the gym daily and you’ll feel better. We’re only here for a short time . Enjoy your friends and family and count your blessings. Lots of people are much worse off than you! Sounds like a giant pity party!

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Drphil1938

You are in a real funk. What others say about there is no certain way you must feel is correct. I am reminded of the story of two hobos sitting on a park bench and a big limo went by . A man was sitting in the back with his chauffeur driving. One of the hobos turned to the other and said: "There, except for me, go I." We make choices good and bad.🍸🍸🤠

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Jimhoy

Its good to vent!!! However, remember that the Lion is on the “critically endangered species list” while the Gazelle flourishes!!

Remember, Opinions are like A-holes. Everyone has one and most stink!!

Here’s mine!!!

I don’t know your circumstances but with the gloom and doom I read in your post, I suggest that you get some relief!! I sure its not intentional but this cannot be helpful for your husband.

I know....I know, I not posing to know / understand your story but you are clearly demonstrating the need of some help / relief!!!

I completely appreciate that being the spouse, caregiver to an aPC patient is harder than being the patient!! You watch us suffer from pain (sometimes helplessly), share all the worries, concerns, pain, suffering, distress etc plus you have to put up with all our shit!!! I applaud people like you and my wife for your devotion. I have read of many that have simply bailed out!! God bless you!!

As a patient, I know at times I have worn out my tears of the clown at times but I need to persevere for my friends and family especially my “caregiver” wife. I try to shield her while not keeping here in the dark!! So, I VENT (as I just did here) and I work and pray that she never feels worse than I do!!!

So.... I’ll break out the “tears of the clown” once again on Thursday. My family and friends will come over and laugh, wine & dine, watch football, nap, do crafts, etc and be non the wiser!! It’ll be a long day but I guarantee you my heart will be full at the end of the day!!!

Short term, That’s my advice to you!!

Long term, PLEASE get some relief / help. Vent, talk to professionals, natural calming / meds as a last resort, etc.

I want to punch myself in the face for being so corny but, be that Gazelle that gets away!!!

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Muffin2019

After reading all these posts I believe that life is precious and God gives us these conditions to make us stronger. Cancer sucks in any form, my sister who never smoked died of lung cancer this year, my brother has bladder and colon cancer. He made some very wrong choices in life, cancer, heart attack, 3 strokes with no vision in one eye and is still making bad choices. No cancer in our family, go figure. One person I work with went through 6 months of chemo and scans every 3 months, another workers mom has breast cancer, surgery, chemo and radiation. I have my down days, seems like every tv program has someone dying of cancer. I know the future is not good but it had made my faith stronger, I really should have had it checked years ago but put it off, now on top of it. Thankful for being able to work part time, living in the present, being around my 5 cats and having more treatment options if necessary. Only 2 years into the fight and learning more about this beast on this site. How long I am here is not up to me, feel lucky when others are so much worse off and all those kids who have to deal with cancer. Just have to stay the course, eat right, excercise, keep working to keep busy, stay involved in life. I have too many people depending on me to just give in to this disease, at 68, plan on many more years at least 15 to 20. Just too stubborn to die this early, one of the younger guys was so surprised at my age, he said I do things like a guy in their forties, love the guy. I am still here for a reason that I do not know but have faith that there is a reason I am battling this disease that I will never know. Be thankful for what you have not what you could or want and enjoy the small things in life.

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Cgjunior

I’m with CantChoose!!

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CantChoose

I posted this, went to bed, and came back today to 52 notifications!

Thank you to all. I'll be reading through and considering your words all weekend.

One thing I AM thankful for is this board.

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Lulu700
Lulu700
in reply to CantChoose

We are thankful for you . 😎

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VictoryPC

I felt this way for a long time. No matter who is around you , we still got through this alone. The world keeps turning, bills have to be paid, and all the stupid news is about politics. Yet there we remain. In that constant state of Self Evaluation.

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Lulu700
Lulu700
in reply to VictoryPC

Sitting in Limbo limbo limbo..... Happy holidays ..

1 like
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VictoryPC
VictoryPC
in reply to Lulu700

Happy Holidays to you too. Let's live on.

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Lulu700
Lulu700
in reply to VictoryPC

Beats the alternative ... “pluck the day” before it plucks us .

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j-o-h-n

I am thankful that "I'm still here".

There is a WWII newsreel of soldiers storming the beach on D-day, June 6, 1944 . The newsreel shows one of the soldiers running out of the water from a landing craft and onto the beach when he apparently is shot and collapses motionless on the beach. I always wondered who this young soldier was so that I could visit his family and thank them for his service. You see that soldier did not have the opportunity to a life that I am fortunate to have had, Pca and all. I am thankful to him and all the other soldiers who died because "I'm still here"...

Bless you all and have a wonderful and happy Thanksgiving.

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 11/27/2019 5:31 PM EST

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westof
westof
in reply to j-o-h-n

Hmm... Is that really you j-o-h-n (from NYC, west or north of the Hudson)??

I never thought that you could evoke SERIOUS tears from this non wrinkled 70 year old face!

"Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor."

Happy Thanksgiving

Best

AJ

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westof

Hmm... your great post has provided an awakening to many of us, on many different levels.

Thought provoking and perhaps healing. Thanks!

Best

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rowboattom

We maybe apply to put off Death but we all all going to dye

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Shepard

Being thank full is sometimes difficult to live out. I am nearly 81 and have been living with this since 2010. I am still independent and people say that they do not believe that I am Stage 4 (with advanced cancer.) I try to be honest with myself about my feelings and don't really share them unless asked (few are brave enough to do that.) What I do most of the time is follow the advice of my deceased wife. We were driving late at night on a date in my old car when a tire blew out. I changed it and we were off again. A few more miles down the road another tire blew. There was not a second spare and the road we were on was not heavily traveled. I was distraught as it was too many miles to a repair. My wife to be was not upset. She said, "we might as well dance." So I turned on the radio and we danced on the asphalt road. It was not long before a car stopped. The driver gave me his spare and address so I could return it. Then we were on our way. When ever I feel a little down I remember the uplifting feeling that came from setting troubles aside and enjoying a simple moment. There is no denying the gravity of our various conditions, but I'll bet there is some music near by that could move you to dance or at least tap a toe!

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j-o-h-n
j-o-h-n
in reply to Shepard

Now that's one for Reader's Digest.... Did you ever return the tire? That driver deserved a medal.

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Thursday 11/28/2019 10:47 PM EST

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westof

Hmm... your story is a love story for the ages!

I'm 10 years your junior and I pray that you have another 10 years.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Best

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Mauvemood

Best bunch of posts I have read! I am mad as hell about all of it! Prostate Cancer is a very ugly disease when nothing works.

1 like
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Crabcrushe

Again, focus on gathering data specific to your problem, analyze them, list courses of action and implement them.

You gotta scrap with the son of a bitch.

Nous Defions

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