What’s real and what is quackery in your opinion?
What would you list as the natural fight against Metastatic Prostate Cancer?
What would be on your list as quackery?
What’s Real and What’s Quackery in yo... - Advanced Prostate...
What’s Real and What’s Quackery in your opinion?
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TomNew62
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72 Replies
•
What does "natural fight" mean?
Very vague question...unanswerable,,
Real = Pca
Quackery = Pca
Natural fight against Met Cancer = Laughter
Quackery = Everything I don't understand about Pca
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Sunday 06/23/2019 1:16 AM DST
So simple.
Voodoo vs well designed clinical trials.
How hard is that?
• in reply tocesanon
I’m on a dam test drug . That’s voodoo ... what won’t I do to slow APC ? Not much . Live well cesanon
cesanon• in reply to
It's an imperfect world. There is a rational place for taking calculated risks.
Some here accidently did an informal one person somewhat controlled trial on the Nalakrats Alligator blood BIRM. I am now actually considering trying it while taking monthly measures of my CD4 T-cell levels.
So........ LOL
• in reply tocesanon
That a boy!
j-o-h-n• in reply to
youtube.com/watch?v=jS_Shu8...
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Sunday 06/23/2019 7:59 PM DST
• in reply toj-o-h-n
Hahaha...blazing saddles ..don’t make em like that anymore .. get a rope!
j-o-h-n• in reply to
Yep... sidekick...
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Sunday 06/23/2019 9:32 PM DST
Everything provided by a medical professional is Real
Everything provided by a ‘doctor’ from the University of Google and YouTube is quackery
• in reply toTommyTV
I knew that with my first Dre. Doc said “ you’re prostate is gigantic “! Then the girl told me “ welcome to the golden years “ and inserted a foley . That was real ,but not real nice ... my Uro told me “ I never promised you rainbows and butterflies” as he inserted gold markers into my prostate preparing for RT targeting . Take it easy TommyTV
"Everything provided by a medical professional is Real"
Hah! Thanks for making my day. I needed a good laugh.
• in reply toFCoffey
😂👍
I don’t follow?
There is not a single group of people on this planet where you can make a blanket statement such as "Everything provided by a (insert group) is Real." None.
There are great doctors, good doctors, bad doctors, and flat-out terrible doctors. There are doctors who like to boast of their 30 years experience when in fact they have 1 year of experience and haven't learned a damned thing in 29 years.
Medical professionals includes nurses, EMTs, technicians of all kinds, and many more. All of them are fallible human beings. They are wrong from time to time, some more often than others. Some are pretty good at confining themselves to their area of expertise, others not so much.
Blind faith in any group is dangerous and foolish. Be alert, get second (and third) opinions, educate yourself, and don't let some jerk bully you into what is probably one of the most important decisions in your life.
I’m not stupid. I don’t need to educate myself thank you, I’ve had nearly 8 years with stage 4 so I don’t need lectures, my journey has been taken with an open mind and I’ve seen a great many Google and YouTube ‘experts’ promoting ludicrous ‘cures’.
I was making a simple comparison.
Lighten up, it’s a forum for people asking reasonable questions seeking reasonable supportive answers, not sarcasm, the lowest form of wit I’m given to understand.
Your the one making incredibly broad sweeping changes and then asking a question about my response. If you don't like my answers, don't ask me questions.
My goal here is first to not increase the amount of stupid. Telling folks that all medical professionals are "real" and anything found on Google is quackery violates that rule - twice.
I've tried many a quack treatment but I never stopped allopathic medicine. That I would never do. Sometimes I wonder why do I sound like Donald duck? Lol
Best way to get the correct options is from an oncologist that specializes in PC. If you say where to live, the gang here will give you great references.
Schwah
To be honest, from reading here and from having accompanied my husband through a long journey with this disease, I don't think that there is anything I would recommend in the fight against prostate cancer. However, there is a lot you can do to boost you energy-levels (healthy smoothies/diet, vitamin and mineral supplements to boost your immune system, etc.) and there are therapies such as Reiki that help with phyiscal and emotional resilience as well as with relaxing body and mind or acupuncture or massage. Those complementary treatments are not designed as a cure but as a way to cope better with this disease. So I think there is a lot that can help to cope with the situation but very little that can help in the fight against the cancer as such.
Well stated Melanie... There really are no "alternative" natural treatments that have shown themselves to be as effective as the current standards of care ( as lacking as many of them are).... I see no harm in using complementary treatments to enhance life quality but hitching ones wagon to a star in hopes of a cure is folly IMHO.
If I had this " journey" to do over again I think I might have tried a lot harder at the very beginning to get curative treatment..... but I didn't and now I have to face the consequences....
• in reply toMelaniePaul
Great answer! 😎
Tom,
There are some here who think that their doctors will provide all the help they need. Frankly, considering the mortality rate for metastatic PCa, I view that as a strange position to take.
There are also men who think that the internet only provides fake advice. (If so, why would this site be any different?)
There are a handful of medical institutions that are tackling the quackery issue. e.g. Sloan Kettering:
mskcc.org/cancer-care/integ...
Wikipedia is a good reference for almost anything.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan...
If you wade through my old posts, you will find references to scientific studies of natural agents. Of course, these are not studies of drugs financed by pharmaceutical companies, so some disregard them. That's OK. Studies show that most men diagnosed with PCa become interested in complementary approaches. I expect that the percentage is much higher for advanced PCa.
I have also given opinions on Budwig, etc. See below from 3 years ago.
-Patrick
"Hi Wilfred,
"Over the years, I have had online contact with men who became excited about Budwig. She claimed a phenominal cure rate with her mix of flaxseed oil & quark (cottage cheese is used as an approximation). But there are two issues for men with PCa. Flaxseed oil is extremely high in alpha linolenic acid [ALA], an unstable omega-3 fatty acid that studies have linked to aggressive PCa. Secondly, dairy products are also linked to aggressive PCa.
I joined the big Budwig group for a while. Very popular. Lots of posts every day, but very little on PCa. I looked at old messages & it seemed that the PCa cases were newly diagnosed. Where were the PCa survivors? I asked the group if there were any men out there who had been using Budwig for 12 months. Silence. I might have got the same response if I said 6 months.
Think abount the numbers. There are over two million men currently living in the U.S. who have had a PCa diagnosis at some time {Actually, 3 million.}. If Budwig, Hoxsey & any of the other old cancer cures worked, the word would get out.
In your internet travels, you might run across references to Cliff Beckwith. He had stage IV PCa. He tried Budwig & his cancer seemed to go away. He started his own Budwig site. Attracted testimonials from non-PCa cases & pet owners. He was a true believer. Must have convinced many men to try it.
What Cliff neglected to tell people, was that he was on ADT too. When that failed, Budwig failed too. But he never lost faith in Budwig.
The Budwig mix is intriguing. She warned against using flaxseed oil by itself. Seems that the ALA must interact with the sulfurated protein in the cottage cheese. If it has any effect on other cancers, I don't know. There is no credible evidence that it cures PCa, IMO.
-Patrick
So I had PCa for eleven years. I have had 72 radiations and Lupron (Eligard) injections for 6 1/2 years and I have been off therapy for 1 year. I no longer have any signs of cancer, so you tell me what is quackery.
Jim,
All I know is that 70% of men diagnosed with metastatic PCa are dead within 5 years. We have had some on this site. Their voices are quickly silenced. Newcomers get advice from the lucky 30%.
No-one has said that conventional therapy is quackery. And therapies are more effective than those for pancreatic cancer, say, but 70% failure up-front is pretty dismal in my view.
-Patrick
• in reply topjoshea13
Reality sucks . True Patrick . Thanks
Diet and supplements may slow the progression of Pca not cure it. As to whats quackery, if you must split hairs see the the following websites;
American cancer society complimentary and alternative medicines
NIH Complimentary and alternative medicine
These are the "official" organizations for cancer research and treatment.
One caveat to these websites, don't look for the truth. Many supplements are not discussed.
• in reply toMagnus1964
Rarely
Magnus1964• in reply to
I think theNIH and the American Cancer society are influenced by big pharma through their financial support.
• in reply toMagnus1964
Everything is influenced by $$.
• in reply toMagnus1964
I love alternative medicine
I've been thinking about this since you posted. We are new to the PCA journey, so I have very few opinions on treatment efficacy. However, I've definitely seen every type of coping, magical thinking and emotional distancing in these first few months.
I hate that so many friends and family want to (and think they can) help by suggesting a book or a diet or a treatment. I know they are trying to control something that is terrifying, but it implies cancer is my husband's *fault* and that his cure or death will also be his fault. (Should have rubbed the turmeric on his willy, or restricted calories to 400 every 6 hours!)
There are no atheists in foxhole, and what passes for "God" is not always a man with a beard. Many people want to turn over control to a higher power, whether it's a supplement, a wonderful doctor, a diet, a special treatment. If my husband gets on one of these bandwagon, I'll do my best to blow my horn for him. Placebo effect and the need for control are part of this.
I hate people who are Vegans belonging to the McDougall club who say my cancer is out of control because I am not vegan. It is like a religious dogma. One friend is into it. He is also an anti-vaxer, so he is into a particular political dogma as well. Dogma is Quackery.
I don't know that McDougall diet can be quite powerful. Have u seen all the beans on that diet. I wish I could have captured all that methan. I would have been able to send the utility company a bill.
• in reply toCantChoose
Agreed
Well said.
"turmeric on his willy".... Thanks for the tip (pun intended)....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Sunday 06/23/2019 8:08 PM DST
Look at credentials rather than claimed results. The credentials are best if the Medical Oncologist has spent his lifetime researching advanced prostate cancer in a lab and clinic at a major medical school where they also are professors on staff teaching young doctors about geniturologic cancers. This person is best equipped to treat with non-standard of care v standard of care treatments. It may or may not work, but I would reach out to these professionals rather than some under educated quack who’s main desire is to make money selling a book or treatment calling it alternative.
Gourd Dancer
The quacks have their hands out . The truthers just want to help, no strings.
That's odd, every person with an MD or similar title that I have visited wants to be paid. Usually quite a lot. Are they all quacks? Where do you find these folks who just want to help, no strings?
Did not think we were on Docs. They are paid professionals. Was talking about the so called non prof healers.
I'd like to meet these "truthers."
My alternative medicine (actually competitive medicine) docs all have MDs, and most have board certification in more than one specialty. They are very smart and pay attention, even to things that challenge their beliefs and egos. Especially to those things.
Every one of them noticed that with chronic diseases, especially cancer, they were making their patients sicker rather than helping them. So they changed what they offer. Does that make them quacks?
I too, would like to find the magic wand but it is elusive. I think it is like sasquatch. It lives in the realm of imagination and hope for it to be true.
I will depend on current science and grab life by the tail; go for the ride that is left and try to enjoy every minute. Who knows what is ahead!
If it promises a miracle cure and wants money up front, it's quackery.
Who can put a price on either the placebo effect or hope itself ? . Nutrients and homeopathic measures give me hope . Also they empower one to feeling like your are controlling whats going in . Eat to live . Everything is quackery until proven different . Mod med is practicing their craft . APC won’t go away with s kick in the jugular . I’m open minded . I’ll try almost anything to stay here longer . When my bell tolls I want to go with a smile on my face . APC will get us all in the end . Postponing the inevitable . Until then pursue love and daily happiness .
j-o-h-n• in reply to
"I want to go with a smile on my face"....
I told my wife when I become room temperature and if I'm not smiling... then she should shape my lips into a smile, even if she has to use duct tape.
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Sunday 06/23/2019 8:14 PM DST
• in reply toj-o-h-n
Duct tape won’t help the broken hearts left behind sad that you are not here . Your smile permeates HU .. everyday .. thanks tri-pod
How is she going to get the smile off her face? That was bad, Mrs. John forgive me.
Probably when I see her spending the inheritance with her boyfriend.....
p.s. she forgives you.... but I don't...😢😢😢
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Monday 06/24/2019 7:49 PM DST
• in reply toDrphil1938
Hahaha😂
There is a huge following in The university of Arizona Alternative medicine Group. Spearheaded by Dr Andrew Weil . Much hope . I follow Dr Michael Uzick . An Md and naturalpathic Oncologist..One of less than 100 in the US. I’m on his plan . I did Rt and still on adt . I do it all . Each of us must find our own pathway to healing .. don’t forget the spiritual aspects . I’ve always been counterculture and not a follower. 1/3 of deaths in US are due to medical errors . It’s all a crap shoot . Give it our best.. Good day !
monte1111• in reply to
I had to close my wooden penis tab and google medical deaths. Now I am absolutely terrified of going to my next medical appointment. The guy/gal who takes my blood sample; a vampire, happily infecting me with sepsis. Hungry eyes follow me as I walk through the huge medical center. And my doctor, she smiles at me. Are her canine teeth a little longer now? Odd, it looks like she could use a shave. I'm on the 3rd floor. Jump through the window or go down in the elevator, pressed up against contagious passengers. I could run for my car, but alas, I can no longer run. I think I'll call in sick.
Where is J-O-H-N? I was sure he would have a comment on this post. Paranoia and sarcasm are a perfect description of this scouge,with which we are afflicted. When described your way it is also humorous. Keep up the good fight and enjoy life.
• in reply toDrphil1938
👏
wooden penis tab? I bet you wouldn't have wished for one of those when you were very young... damn splinters on your hands....
I agree, I think you should call in sick...
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Sunday 06/23/2019 8:18 PM DST
• in reply tomonte1111
What are you? The werewolf of London? You’re scaring me ..you could write a thriller ..hey wait a minute ? That was my dream last night? I don5 know about you? But for me . When I walk thru the cancer center doors I’m in awe of the scale of this problem . Dammed if we do. Dammed if we don’t .. man the torpedoes ..
As many members of this group know (having been told by a medical professional so it must be true) advanced prostate cancer is incurable.
When told that you have a fatal disease for which modern medicine offers no cure, there is only one logical response.
"Quick! Find me a Quack!"
• in reply toFCoffey
😂 🦆🦆🦆
In the final analysis, the medical profession says it is trying to turn PCa into a long term illness. Since complementary supplements are basically unproven in humans it doesn't mean they do nothing. Ever notice that a substance like tumeric is tried on mice and it seems to stop there? Even if that substance works on mice? It certainly makes me wonder if this is a money thing. Aspirin , for example, has been said to slow PCa down. Same thing with celebrex. I never have been successful getting an oncologist to agree with this. I therefore do it on my own. After all if PCa can't be cured than helping it slow down makes sense to me. I finally got my primary care to RX celebrex. Aspirin gives you chronic sinusitis. So I'm doing celebrex now. My oncologist wouldn't prescribe it though. Every time I get my PCa checked it's a .02 the lowest for that type of test given at NIH. I still think Lupron and Xtandi do most of the work but anything else is a very small player.
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