And Now they say that Intense exercise is detrimental for PD

[Farooqji]

Science is always contradictory at least in case of Parkinson

scienceofparkinsons.com/201...

[park_bear]

This data arose from an animal model which is always inferior evidence to human data, which found that exercise was beneficial. In addition, the mice were exercised to exhaustion, which is not the same as a normal human exercise routine.

[Hikoi in reply to park_bear]

Animal study or not there is enough in it for further investigation. Trust PD to complicate exercise. It should be so simple.

Basically the study suggested that high-intensity treadmill exercise, 3-4 times per week appears to slow the progression of the motor decline in people with recently diagnosed Parkinson’s. But it is only motor symptoms, not other non motor symptoms and its only newly diagnosed.

The animal studies admittedly pushed the mice to exhaustion levels but then they also took blood samples from humans and analysed them. The results varied as to type of PD.

On the one hand, we have research saying high intensity exercise is potentially slowing the decline of motor ability in people with Parkinson’s, but on the other hand, we have a report suggesting that exhaustive exercise may be detrimental in particular genetics-based forms of Parkinson’s (about 20%)

We already realise in the future we will have personalised treatment for each type of PD and now it appears that this advice may include types of exercise recommended.

[Lisl in reply to park_bear]

The article goes on to discuss the fact that the researchers did also look at humans. I've cut and pasted the relevant section from the article, below.

I think the most important point to be taken from this, as others have frequently pointed out, is that different people, with different causes, forms or symptoms of Parkinson's respond differently to different situations.

The issue of anti-inflammatories has been raised before. Once, when it was raised I had recently suffered liver damage from a drug I was taking to control an autoimmune disease. I was 'detoxing' with the attitude that I'd rather risk the devil I knew.

Through a number of flares of 'the devil I knew' the PD deteriorated, partly because I wasn't absorbing my meds properly. However, when that was fixed it was clear to me that the PD had progressed. My rheumatologist was monitoring my bloods carefully and found that my inflammatory markers were very high.

I'm being prescribed one of the 'biologics' which is the only hope of controlling the inflammation. Whatever the cause, i have experience first hand, what acute inflammation can do to PD in a short time. I'm hoping to regain a bit more ground...

I have always exercised, though these days I'm very limited, and to my knowledge it has always benefited me. I was the type who pushed myself to the limits of exercise (like the mice on the treadmill) and it didn't harm me. BUT if it causes inflammation in some people they should avoid anything other than gentle exercise.

Anything that causes inflammation should be avoided by all PWP, as evidenced by the article. What seems to differ is how and why they're affected.

We're all learning more and more about this disease, which is now thought to have its origins in an inflammatory process. What's clear is that what's good for one PWP might be very bad for another.

We need less evangelism and more understanding of our differences as well as our similarities. In the past I have seen negative things said about people who claimed that exercise didn't help them.

The quote:

"This was all in mice. Did the researchers look at humans?

Yes, they did.

The researchers looked at markers of inflammation in blood samples collected from people with idiopathic (or spontaneous; cannot be explained by genetics) Parkinson’s and from people with PINK1 or PARKIN genetic variations.

They found that people with idiopathic Parkinson’s and PARKIN genetic variants have high levels of markers of inflammation in their blood (compared to controls). Curiously, individuals with PINK1 genetic variants did not differ from controls in their levels of markers of inflammation in their blood.

This difference suggests that therapies inhibiting STING could be of interest to certain members of the Parkinson’s community"

[Donzim]

of course, intense exercise is stress. forced exercise is different, using part of the equipment and part of the patient's effortts.

[laglag]

I know from 11 yrs of experience that intense exercise is beneficial for PD. It's helped me and I've seen it help hundreds of PwP's. Trust me.

[ParlePark in reply to laglag]

I agree however Hikoi has a very valid point. I’ve had Pd 2-4 years but exercising intensely for 35. Mine might be inherited I dunno. In any case despite tremors my balance, gait is good. Yes I attribute to exercise but we are all different and personalize treatment makes sense to me.

[laglag in reply to ParlePark]

I agree.

[Mucuna123 in reply to laglag]

What kind of exercise do you do and for how long? Do you do intense exercise every day? Any exercise that helps with rigidity?

[laglag in reply to Mucuna123]

I do non-contact boxing 3 times per week. It's pretty intense. Besides boxing, we do many types of exercising, including ones for fine motor skills and exercises for your voice. The program is called Rock Steady Boxing and it's specifically for Parkinson's patients. You can go to their website, rocksteadyboxing.org , to see the videos & testimonials and see if there's one close to you.

Keep fighting!

[Mucuna123 in reply to laglag]

Thank you!

[JerMan22]

I'd say intense is good: get your heart rate up to 80-85% of your max heart rate and hold it there for 20-30 minutes. That gets oxygenated blood and hopefully other good things to your brain.

But the rats were forced until exhaustion. Probably terrified. Did they get any blood to their brains? Maybe at first, but the fight or flight mechanism prioritizes blood flow to the heart and muscles.

Who designed this study anyway?

[Mucuna123 in reply to JerMan22]

What kind of intense exercise do you do? How many times a week?

[KemptonD]

While the science advances, might I suggest carrying on with any exercise you may engage in, but step off the treadmill before the point of exhaustion and enjoy the antiinflammatory effects and temporary relief of a cold shower.

[jeffmayer]

What a load of rubbish what is the option sitting and rotting away

Give me exercise anyday

[alexask]

Actually reading the link they do talk a lot about inflammation. Vitamin b1 at the levels taken by those on this site is anti-inflammatory (amongst other things). Mannitol still works better for me though as far as PD is concerned.

[LAJ12345]

There are quite a few early onset cases where people have been endurance athletes and this is a good explanation of why they might have PD. It seems likely they have this gene. People who have trained all their lives but only contracted it at a later stage possibly don’t have that gene or they may have got it earlier? So it seems they would be better to exercise intensely still.

[JohnPepper]

I am astounded at the damage that this heading can do to people with Pd who need to exercise, and don't need to have an excuse for not doing it.

I strongly recommend walking as Fast as you can until you feel you cannot continue. Or better still, walk for a maximum of 10 minutes to begin with. Then every second day, walk for that same time for the next two weeks, then add no more than five minutes and walk for the next two weeks. etc.

In that way we never exceed our comfort zone. Excess of anything is no good for anybody!

[Hikoi in reply to JohnPepper]

I would be most concerned if people based their actions on a heading in a forum, a place for discussion and learning. Iqbaliqbal I appreciate your efforts to keep us informed and the lively discussion that ensued. Its not exercise that is in question. As your heading says this is about intense exercise, is it appropriate for all types of PD? This preliminary research suggests it may not be.

[JohnPepper in reply to Hikoi]

Hi Hkoi. My feeling is that exercise is important to all types of Pd, but do all types of Pd allow the patient to do exercise?

[JohnPepper]

Hi iqbaliqbal. Discussion is often the way to engender interest. We just have to be careful of people simply remembering the headline, and not reading the content!

[Farooqji in reply to JohnPepper]

I just wanted to highlight that how complex PD is. I personally believe that overtiredness due to prolonged exercise should be avoided as it is counterproductive as per my own experience. Sitting idle is also bad , we have too keep balance

[JohnPepper]

I agree about overtiredness but it can be confused with lack of motivation.

[Hidden]

Not that I read it fully, does the article say about what type of patients in what disease stage? I have known some people who have severe muscle loss/muscle wasting/weight loss, can they walk fast? I don't think so, to put it bluntly. It takes about 10 minutes to walk a meter, for example, a chap that I know of.

What stage do you consider yourself if you are able to engage in regular "intense workout" 3-4 times a week (which I consider to be something an athlete would do), even a well-bodied person may find it hard to do? I'm just curious.