looked at 28000 people/twins from a census and found:
Occupations involving High complexity of work with data and people is related to increased risk of PD, particularly in men.
As a Systems Analyst I relate to this as I dealt with complex data and various demanding people.
The men I have personally met with PD since my diagnosis all fall into this category (2 engineering salesmen, 1 doctor, 1 optics engineer, 1 finance accountant).
I wonder if other men/women on here feel that they do/don't fall into this category.
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CuriousMe12
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I remember a PD researcher saying that PWP have higher than average IQ, for unknown reasons. That would tie in with the mentioned study. But don’t have a reference for it, and am not sure what it means.
Yes there's a line in the study"higher education [4], [9] and higher-status occupations [4]–[6] have been associated with a higher risk of PD or the results were null [10]. These findings are not well understood"
Though people with a high iq do not always go into higher education.
I graduated near the top of my class in college. Not because I'm smarter, but I worked harder and longer hours than the rest. Even the Asian kids had gone to bed while I was still up studying. I wonder if the stress of constant effort could have led to PD???
I graduated near the top of the class in college. I'm not smarter than others but I worked harder than anyone else. When the Asian students were done for the night I was still up studying. Could chronic over-work have led to PD???
Already previous research suggests that stressful life events may increase the risk of Parkinson's disease. It seems to me rather obvious that the relationship with work with highly complex data and people entails this. In fact, this is already stipulated in the research.
“Occupations requiring higher complexity with data and people may also involve greater levels of certain types of stress, such as interpersonal conflict associated with mentoring in jobs such as managerial positions or professors. Elevation of stress levels can cause increased levels of glutamate, which has been implicated in PD.”
Inquiry among the members of HU does not seem representative to me...
Possibly not, but interested in views. The study only found this applicable to men. Women in these same occupation types were not as adversely affected. Perhaps women dealt with stress better.
Fortunately for women, PB has gender inequality… According to the Parkinson’s Foundation, men are 1.5 times more likely to develop Parkinson’s disease than women. So in general, women already get PD less often, at a later age and also with milder symptoms and progression. Given this difference, some comparison between men and women in this stating the obvious study is difficult to make. Too little research has still been done on the cause of the gender differences, as has the phenomenon that the medication with C/L of women with PD has to be about half as in men. In reality, however, that will simply go according to the standard protocols with all the consequences that entails.
Men may be 1.5 times more likely to get PD. But that's a separate thing to the study finding that the female cohort was not correlating to the said occupations, as the male cohort was.
Men and women aren't Apple's and pears. They're humans suffering from a common disease. The fact that there are differences should not be ignored as clues to prevention and cure can lie in identified differences.
I can see how stress may contribute to PD. But there are many possibilities for stressful circumstances of life and work, not just for high IQ people in complex data analysis..
That fits with the people aspect I'm guessing complex information too.I used to wake at 2am and be awake for hours thinking about fixing things and approaches to people. Can't be healthy.
Ì guess I chose the life so my choice but it bugs me when the neurologist point blank says stress and PD are unrelated.
A follow-up study was done by the same researchers in 2018 that indeed established the relationship between work stress and PD. “In conclusion, our findings suggest that occupational stress is associated with PD risk such that having a high‐demand occupation is a risk factor, and low control is protective. Thus, the meaning of job control and strain may need to be reconsidered in the context of PD. To better understand the relationship between occupational stress and PD risk, future studies may consider other models of occupational stress to elucidate whether occupational stress only is a risk factor for PD or if there are also aspects of stress that may be protective.”
You are speechless at the certainty with which our 'specialists' make such unsubstantiated claims. Make a list of studies next time to be able to reply to the neurologist on the spot or later by email.
Interestingly I worked in actuarial for an insurance company and everyone except one person had the same Meyers Briggs personality. INTJ. All except me were men. (We don’t have PD). The other was ENTJ.
Most of the people that worked with hubby as systems analysts were ISTJ and all had birthdays within weeks of each other.
Weird. Personality types tend to flock to occupations that suit them but star signs??
I think it is the introverted conscientious people that like these careers.
here is an interesting paper on personality types.
Interesting point. The Swedish study pointed out:"Although not entirely consistent, epidemiological evidence indicates a pattern in which certain pre-morbid personality traits such as being industrious, punctual, inflexible, ambitious, orderly, and risk avoidant are common among individuals who develop PD [22]. Occupations that involve high occupational complexity with data and people are likely to be sought by someone who meets at least some of these characteristics....However, not all research supports the hypothesized relationship between PD and personality [25]. The interaction of personality and occupation in relation to PD risk deserves further attention."
I don’t know. I haven’t seen them for 20 years. But my point is if personality types group in occupation which they seem to, and PD is more prevalent in certain occupations, it could also indicate it might be linked to personality type. Which is something I have wondered before.
Well part of my work consisted on creating a database of women and services. Also had to design trainings and deal with lots of women and detailed record keeping...not sure if that counts...but stress has been a biggie for me from birth...
CuriousMe12 I also fall into that category, worked in industry for 34 years so far. Very demanding, high performance expectations. Just changed direction the last 5 years.
I have heard that there is definitely such a thing as a "Parkinson's personality ". I heartily believe it now. It makes perfect sense that someone who has had lots of trauma or has perceived stressful events with a higher degree of sensitivity and became hyper vigilant as a result (contributing to the development of certain personality traits) could develop a nervous system disorder. I had huge amounts of stress all around the same time plus COVID before anyone knew about it here in the US.
Could also be that we are highly sensitive people. There is a great book about that. I was a school teacher and then became an organizer of activist groups. Super stressful stuff leading to burnout. Wish there was a study about burnout and pd. Janice Hadlock who cured herself and others of PD also talks about the pd personality, and how that can be changed, and that the change could lead to recovery! That is what I am slowly and painstakingly working on. I figure if it doesn't cure my pd, at least it will make me easier to live with, even for myself.
Also couldnt that mean that people with certain developed personality traits are more likely to have certain aspirations to be important to contribute meaningfully? But also to be rigid with themselves and have higher standards and expectations?
Gabor Mate talks about this in all his books, how disease is a result of trauma, stress, and how we respond to them throughout our lifetime. He also mentions how people with ALS for example are usually the "really nice ones" that go out of their way to please everyone.
Yes I think so. Hubby was a very rigid thinker and a bit ocd eg when folding laundry, having to have tidiness etc. but completely hopeless with eg hygiene and cleaning if it didn’t fall into what he considered his jobs. Eg toilet cleaning or bathroom he would never clean when he lived alone before me. The shower was literally a mould box. Yet sock and undies all folded nicely in little rows in the draw, books organised in sets in tidy rows etc. Kitchen and dishes, “his jobs” , always done , plates stacked in orderly system. Some jobs even when living alone never seemed to strike him as his jobs.
I’m more pick off the most pressing cleaning , feeding etc needs first so we all survive, and if I still have time, do the nice to haves like arranging things to be pleasing to the eye.
He is not good at spur of the moment events and surprises, and has always got sick on day 3 of a holiday ie out of his routine. He has been very much no emotions. He wouldn’t enjoy a movie with any emotional content, or silly girly stuff.
Does that lead to PD or is the first sign of PD? Interesting. What causes what, or are they coincidental.
I’m pleased to say he seems to be very slowly changing his fixed viewpoints and habits and attitudes. He seems to be able to cope a bit more with flexibility and has been getting more emotional watching movies and interacting with people lately. He is listening to lots of music. And seems very happy. Something is working.
Definitely. I notice a huge impact on my symptoms when in a stressful situation. Im working on stress avoidance. Of course not all stress can be avoided so I'm also doing mindfulness.
Ì also accept that a small amount of stress is needed to motivate me to do the mundane tasks of life.
Definitely agree it needs addressed to help slow PD progress.
I'm trying to decide whether avoidance is plausible and strategizing (with hopefully mindfulness) about how to reframe it or just receive it differently. My sense is that it's an ironic thing that is key, which is acceptance, and surrender. Not giving up or in, just taking it in and then reframing after I let it sit in my body. Reading Tara Brach, can you tell? 🪷
Add to that list, people who are very difficult, hyped up, easily irritable, always angry and resentful with a difficult upbringing and a hurtful childhood
Exactly. I would just change one word though. Instead of "with a difficult upbringing" I would say "because" of one. And I am referring here to my own experience and wondering if we polled pwp whether any of them would say they had a great childhood and never had any family troubles growing up.
Yup, I was describing myself. I forgot to add, I also was the target of relentless bullying by some classmates at school and a frequent recepient of corporal punishment.
One example : A teacher hit me on the head and caused a gash that had to be stitched up. I was in the 2nd grade/standard and the punishment was for not reciting my ABC's correctly.
I too was bullied, hit by dad and am wondering if we have the fodder for a really good poll. Or maybe one has already been done! Two questions could do it.
-Do you have Parkinson's symptoms?
-were you hit, bullied or abused at any point in your life?
I don't think it is doing complex data that is the cause, but, the environment these people work in. TCE is found to be a chemical prevalent in electronic devices such as computers, cleaning products, dry cleaning...etc.
Ì expect that there are multiple contributing factors to PD. For some people it may be a high stress complex occupation combined with certain personal attributes.
For others it may be exposure to trichloroethylene (e.g. high incidence amongst dry cleaning workers) combined with their personal attributes.
There are probably multiple risk factors (some with no apparent relationship)and identifying them is important.
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