Vitamin B6: How To Test If Your P5P Is Au... - Cure Parkinson's

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Vitamin B6: How To Test If Your P5P Is Authentic, And When It Is Important Do So

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17 Replies

Background:

Vitamin B6 is an essential cofactor in over 100 enzymatic reactions. We need abundant B6 to keep what is left of our dopaminergic neurons as healthy as possible, especially since they are already compromised by Parkinson's. Levodopa medication uses up a lot of vitamin B6. B6 is only present in foods in low milligram amounts, so supplementation is necessary if we are taking levodopa medication. Failure to do so can result in dire consequences.

There's more to it however. For starters, if B6 meets up with levodopa medication in the GI tract they will inactivate each other, so they must be taken at separate times. (This happens in the bloodstream too, but to a lesser extent because they are more dilute in circulation. Also, this is why levodopa medication uses up a lot of B6).

In addition there are two different forms of B6 commonly available as supplements, one of which is toxic. The toxic one is known as pyridoxine. The other is pyridoxal-5-phosphate, commonly known as P5P. It has a phosphate group attached, and is the active form. When it participates in reactions the phosphate group is detached. This must be restored for it to become active again. The inactive form, pyridoxine, if taken in quantity as a supplement, occupies sites that require the active form. It thereby sabotages essential reactions, and that makes it toxic. For more detail, including chemical structures, see here: healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

This knowledge is all well and good, however, there have been a couple of disturbing reports of apparent P5P toxicity, which if accurate seriously complicates the situation. Thus it is essential to know whether the P5P that was taken in these cases was authentic. In at least one case it came from a very reputable vendor, who tests all products for contamination. However, that is not sufficient because it is possible the vendor was supplied with the cheaper pyridoxine by their own supplier. Unless they specifically tested for P5P they would not know. Therefore, in such cases it is essential that we test to be sure we are not incorrectly blaming P5P for toxicity. The cause of the toxicity makes a huge difference in how to best use P5P.

Test Procedure

Materials

1. Eye protection

2. Sample to be tested

3. Ets Hach Company 562227 Phosphate Test Kit, found at amazon.com/gp/product/b004l... This particular kit is required because it has been validated for this test*

4. Three small test tubes with caps, 10-15mm x 100 mm, or similar vessels

5. Small cast iron frying pan

6. 2 oz / 50 ml water, distilled preferable

7. Miscellaneous kitchen utensils: spatula, funnel with coffee filter (paper towel will do for the filter), small measuring cup, small glass bowl

8. Optional - pinch of trisodium phosphate powder for positive control

*Other test kits would need to be validated with samples of P5P and pyridoxine before being relied upon.

Safety First - This is chemistry and we will be making something pretty hot so use eye protection.

Preliminary Tests

Negative Control

Fill one of the test tubes most of the way with water and add a packet of indicator powder from the phosphate test kit. Shake thoroughly and then wait 3 minutes. Solution should remain clear. (If not, the water contains phosphate and cannot be used)

Optional Positive Control

Now add a pinch of trisodium phosphate powder to the solution, shake, and again wait 3 minutes. Solution should now turn blue (If not it means the phosphate test is not working). Dispose of solution, rinse, and set test tube aside. Do not use again for main test.

Main Test

We are going to detach the phosphate from the rest of the putative P5P molecule so it can be detected by the phosphate test. The body does this at modest temperatures with enzymes. We do not have that ability and are going to simply oxidize everything that is not phosphate. (Phosphate, PO4, is already oxidized. )

Secure the stove area from curious small children and pets and let others who might use the kitchen know there will be something hot on the stove. Make sure there's nothing flammable in the immediate vicinity of the stove top.

Open the P5P capsule and pour the contents into the dry frying pan (If the P5P comes as a tablet, crush the tablet). Shake the frying pan back and forth to distribute the powder into a thin layer. Now set the frying pan onto the stove, turn it to maximum heat, and turn on the exhaust fan. The contents will start to smoke and eventually turn to black ash. Maintain the heat until the smoke stops, which will take about 10-15 minutes. Allow to cool to room temperature.

Place the filter in the funnel. If you're using a paper towel for the filter dampen it and form it into shape. Now place the funnel into the small measuring cup. Use a spatula to loosen the powder in the frying pan and pour it onto the filter. Now add approximately 2 oz / 50 ml of water. Remove the funnel, and use the liquid in the measuring cup to fill the remaining two test tubes most of the way. Set one aside in the small glass bowl as a comparator. Open up a fresh packet of test powder and add it to the other test tube. Shake well and place next to the comparator. Wait 3 minutes. If the result is as shown in the image at top the test sample did contain phosphate so was presumably P5P. (Sample with indicator powder added is on the right.) If both remain the same color the test sample was not P5P.

If you do this let us know your result!

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17 Replies
Bolt_Upright profile image
Bolt_Upright

Good job PB! (Why did reading this make me think of Bryan Cranston?).

park_bear profile image
park_bear in reply to Bolt_Upright

I prefer Professor Poliakoff as my role model 🙂

youtube.com/watch?v=zxaWgu2...

Jbeaner profile image
Jbeaner

Now we have to do chemistry to test our supplements? Isn’t there a third party tested brand that people can rely on?

park_bear profile image
park_bear in reply to Jbeaner

Consumer Labs does test supplements. I checked and they did not test P5P offerings. They did test multivitamins for "B6" without distinguishing between pyridoxine and P5P. So no help there.

I personally have been taking the NOW brand P5P For several years without toxicity, and it did pass the above test for phosphate.

amazon.com/NOW-P-5-p-50-Veg...

Jbeaner profile image
Jbeaner in reply to park_bear

thanks!

Esperanto profile image
Esperanto in reply to park_bear

Merci, maybe by your recommendation this P5P can no longer be obtained by a run on their website. 😀 Fortunately, it is still through the European. There it says the information that you should take a dose once every 2 days so 1179% of the daily reference intake. On the USA link with the info 1 x daily...

However, it is almost impossible to see that extra  magnesium (chelated magnesium bisglycinate) has been added. Do you know why this is being done and if there are any side effects. Seems like a fairly small amount at 6% of the daily norm.

park_bear profile image
park_bear in reply to Esperanto

It appears that several vendors offer P5P with magnesium. They say magnesium "assists B6 metabolism". I do not have further detail. It does seem like a small amount.

RedwoodPark profile image
RedwoodPark in reply to park_bear

Hi PB....What is the dose you are taking and at what point in the day have you had the best results? Have you gone off of it for any length of time and noticed anything overall?

Myself, I've taken intramuscual HDT injections for several years with Dr Constantini with 9 x 800 mg folinic acid and a B-100 multivitamin when I do the injection twice a week. So, is it overkill or too much (in a negative way) to add more B6 or others like B12 daily?

park_bear profile image
park_bear in reply to RedwoodPark

High dose thiamine is vitamin B1 and should not be confused with vitamin B6 which is different. I do take both as well as B12.

I know that Dr Costantini recommends supplementing folate in the form of folinic acid. I caution against supplementing folate In any form because it is carcinogenic. See the research I cited in my writing here: tinyurl.com/ycdrz5lj

RedwoodPark profile image
RedwoodPark in reply to park_bear

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I did look into this and thought that this toxicity was only for folic acid but not folinic acid. This is from what I read several years ago, so maybe I'm behind the current knowledge base at this point. Any insight?

park_bear profile image
park_bear in reply to RedwoodPark

I suggest reading the information at the link. Toxicity is not the issue with folate carcinogenicity.

LindaP50 profile image
LindaP50

Seriously? Toxic?

When hubby had Lyme Disease the integrative team of doctors put him on Active B-Complex with Quatrefolic Brand Methylfolate (because his body didn't absorb Vit B6 well)

Brand is Integrative Therapeutics - contains no what, gluten, soy, dairy or artificial colors or flavors.

Contains "Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxal-5' - phosphate and pyridoxine HCI) - SO this Active B - Complex contains both toxic and non-toxic B6?

Am I understanding this correctly? He's been taking 1 capsule daily since 2014.

Uh oh ....

Esperanto profile image
Esperanto in reply to LindaP50

Hi Linda, at higher dosages certainly a problem, but also depending on the absorbancy. The vitamin B complex your husband takes has 50 mg of both forms B6 per serving, nearly 3000% of the DV. A serving consists of 2 tablets, so maybe he will get half of this? If you haven't had a B6 test done lately, that's recommended given the dose and especially if you have problems with your feet. But at least as important in PD is possibly the interaction with the carbidopa in the medication. Due to excessive B6 supplementation, the effect of the C/L medication can be reduced. It's a shaky balance.

LindaP50 profile image
LindaP50 in reply to Esperanto

Thanks. Last year I reduced the quantity to 1 tablet per day. Takes the B complex at lunch time and its at least 40 minutes from the taking the C/L.

I'll review his blood work later today.

park_bear profile image
park_bear in reply to LindaP50

That is definitely not okay. The only reason I can think of to use both forms is that the pyridoxine is cheaper and they are using mostly pyridoxine. I would switch to another brand. Here is one to consider: jarrow.com/products/b-right...

Pyridoxine toxicity usually manifests as peripheral neuropathy. If your husband is not experiencing that, then no need to worry about what he has already taken, but I would switch in any case.

LindaP50 profile image
LindaP50 in reply to park_bear

Appreciate your response. Yes, with PD why ADD bad stuff. Will check out the link you provided.

Now heading out for some "me" time - getting yearly eye check up. :)

LindaP50 profile image
LindaP50 in reply to park_bear

Checked to see if both brands we used contained pyridoxine - Pure Prescriptions and Integrative Therapeutics both contained the toxic. The Stram Center (integrative medicine) is where we purchased product originally with Pure Prescriptions. Have at least 3 bottles which will now go into the trash.

No signs of peripheral neuropathy. Phew!

Well, thanks to you and other good people at HU - hubby will stop taking this toxic.

Geez.

THANK YOU!!!!

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