Neuroscientist Andrew Huberman 'not a fan... - Cure Parkinson's
Neuroscientist Andrew Huberman 'not a fan' of melatonin since it can reduce baseline dopamine production
Maybe that explains why some of us feel so sluggish the day after taking melatonin.
Same goes for my husband. 
He was taking 8mg, but he lowered it to 3-4 mg.
first time I hear of βPEA.
"β-phenylethylamine (βPEA) is an endogenous amine that has been shown to increase the synaptic levels of dopamine (DA). "
has anyone tried βPEA supplements?
"Now, there is one compound that you are all familiar with, and you've probably actually taken without realizing it, that increases dopamine. And that's something called PEA for phenethylamine, technically beta phenethylamine. And PEA is found in various foods. Chocolate just happens to be one in enriched in PEA and can increase synaptic levels of dopamine. I personally take PEA from time to time as a focus and work aid in order to do intense bouts of work. Again, I don't do that too often. This might be once a week or once every two weeks. I might use it for training, but typically I don't, it's usually for mental work. And I will take 500 milligrams of PEA and I'll take 300 milligrams of Alpha-GPC. That's something that I personally do. That's what's right for me, it's within my margins of safety for my health. Again, you have to check with your doctor and decide what's right for you. It leads to a sharp but very transient increase in dopamine that lasts about 30 to 45 minutes. And at least in my system I've found to be much more regulated and kind of even than something like L-tyrosine and certainly much more regulated and even and lower dopamine release than something like Mucuna Pruriens."
This is informative - I thought chocolate was merely a stimulant but this explains why it seems to boost my motor ability.
I do not agree with his knock on Mucuna - it seems to have consistent action in my experience. But much slower and less intense than chocolate.
limitlessbrainpill.com/limi...
Any comments, PB ? Thank you!
If I understand correctly β-phenylethylamine (PEA) in synthesized from becomes L-Phenylalanine ? If this is true makes sense why there are L-Phenylalanine supplements being sold.
No. Just the opposite!!!
beta-phenylethylamine (PEA), is a naturally occurring neurohormone/neurotransmitter (chemical signal messenger between nerves) that’s normally synthesized in the brain from the amino acid phenylalanine.
sharon
On YouTube there is a table of contents for this video with timestamps.
He does not distinguish between changes in dopamine levels due to transitory release of dopamine versus the brain's ability to produce dopamine versus added dopamine via Mucuna.
His discussion of melatonin begins here:
02:05:20 Tool 12 Avoiding Melatonin Supplementation, & Avoiding Light 10pm-4am
His discussion is brief:
" One that is rarely discussed is melatonin. I have talked before on this podcast about melatonin, why I am not a fan of using melatonin in order to enhance sleep. It can help one get to sleep, but not stay asleep. Dr. Matt Walker sleep expert from University of California, Berkeley. I think I don't want to put words in his mouth, but in our discussion about melatonin on this podcast when Matt was a guest in his book and on other podcasts, Matt has generally stated that the use of melatonin except for treatment of jet lag is generally not a good idea. And I agree. I think that melatonin is not often thought about as impacting the dopamine pathway, but there's at least one study published in 2001 first author is Nishiyama just as it sounds. It's spelled just as it sounds. 'Acute effects of melatonin administration on cardiovascular autonomic regulation in healthy men'. So the study wasn't specifically about dopamine, but they looked at norepinephrine and dopamine levels, and they found a statistically significant decrease in dopamine 60 minutes after melatonin administration."
Edit: My reporting of what he had to say is not intended as an endorsement of his views. I have not checked his references.
The problem I have with melatonin is it can cause a gassy diarrhea. I suffered from this personally for a while before understanding the cause. A person I encountered at random who complained about diarrhea turned out to have the same cause. Numerous reports on the web.
So he is basing his disdain for melatonin on a 2001 study that was really not about melatonin and just showed a DOPAMINE (thanks park_bear) drop 60 minutes after ingestion?
On the other hand, I think Dr Mischley's data shows worse progression for people taking melatonin, but that could be people with worse symptoms take more melatonin.
Melatonin is not an option for me so I was not motivated to assess the validity of his opinion. I merely reported what he had say to save people from having to review the video. Did you mean dopamine drop rather than melatonin drop?
Yes, sorry if I sounded like I was shooting the messenger. I appreciated you saving me from having to watch the video and I understood you were just relaying this scientist's statements.
No worries. I was not offended, just wanted to clarify where I stood.
If there is one thing I have learnt, and it may well be the only thing, it's that different studies of the one hypothesis, or different observations from different studies, can point to different conclusions about a particular substance.
There's very little that I feel is unambiguously good or unambiguously bad for people with PD. I doubt I would discontinue, based on the one study this guy cites, the use of melatonin if it was improving my QOL.
I would expect Art to comment on this finding. He hasn't been "around" for a while.
There are 2 different chemicals called PEA so be sure you are getting the one you think you are getting.
Phenethylamine and
Palmitoylethanolamide
Palmitoylethanolamide is used for pain, neuropathic pain, fibromyalgia, multiple sclerosis (MS), carpal tunnel syndrome, infections of the airway, and many other conditions, but there is no good scientific evidence to support these uses.
would like to hear your opinion chartist
The actual studies that used melatonin in PwP (3) do not confirm his idea.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/324...
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/a...
sciencedirect.com/science/a...
If his idea was correct, melatonin would worsen the PD condition and it does not! Human and PD model (animal) studies show benefit in multiple areas of PD.
He is referencing a 20 year old study from 2001 to support his claim. The science regarding melatonin and humans has evolved significantly since then and what he is saying is contrary to recent human studies which is what he should be referencing, current science. He said he has previously stated that he is not a fan of melatonin and continues on a path that is not supported by current science. If you are going to speak "as an authority" regarding melatonin and its effects in humans, you should at least do the research to support your claims and he clearly has not done his research.
He further states that melatonin should not be used as a sleep aid, but many people find it useful for sleep, but not everyone. He completely ignores the fact that melatonin is considered a frontline treatment for REM Behavior sleep Disorder(RBD):
link.springer.com/article/1...
Here is a link to the study he referenced and it is a really weak reference at best and hardly qualifies as evidence to make his point with, as the study was not even about dopamine in relation to melatonin:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/113...
The human, animal and plant health benefits of melatonin are substantial and his myopic view of melatonin is not in line with the current science of which I have written extensively.
Art
I just wish Melatonin is effective for depression, too.
Many supplements have shown varying degrees of help with depression.
Melatonin has shown benefit in some cases of depression, but the majority of the studies are animal studies with a handful of human studies.
Vitamin D also has shown benefit in depression.
Citicoline has shown benefit as an adjunctive treatment for depression.
Green tea/EGCG has antidepressant activity.
Lithium Orotate only has significant anecdotal reports for its use in depression.
Curcumin is suggested as adjunctive treatment for depression.
Berberine
EFT etc.
Art
I believe he might be incorrect on this as I have heard otherwise from other sources. Although what he states would have been my guess had I not heard otherwise.
I just posted in case ppl want to look into it further, not sure about it either. Melatonin is such a popular supp you would think we would have heard something about it if it caused this particular problem (something like 'melatonin use associated with earlier PD onset') . Then there's that recent trial of melatonin from Iran showing benefit to actual pwPD. But OTOH there have been problems with research quality coming from Iran recently (and also research conducted at Chinese hospitals due to the incentive system - drs can't get promoted unless they have a certain number of publications or some such).
