More evidence of the benefits of high intensity exercise!
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Does Walking Fast go against the Grain? A... - Cure Parkinson's
Does Walking Fast go against the Grain? Are we locked into the belief that we are unable to do it because we think we can't?
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JohnPepper
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204 Replies
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I think walking fast for folks with PD is great. People I know with PD do have some difficulty walking and walking fast is even harder. My husband went to LSVT therapy (aka Big and Loud - big steps, loud voice) and learned he could walk fast. Takes a lot of concentration and confidence.
He may not always walk fast but after the LSV therapy he very rarely does a shuffle walk.
Well Done. If he would like to learn a whole lot more about how to possibly overcome many other problems then send your email address to johnpepper@telkomsa.net abd I will send you my videos and lots of valuable information. There is no cost involved.
I completely agree high intensity exercise is definitely more beneficial than any drug although I am a cyclist I do have two dogs that I walk 3 times a day and I used to be a very keen fellwalker having done a 140 wainwrights
In order to derive any benefit for Pd your walking should be non-stop and maintained for no longer than one hour, every second day. Walking the dog is stop and go and is more a pleasure than proper exercise.
If you have tried walking two Irish setters you would disagree exercise at any level is beneficial try banging it out on a turbo trainer for an hour at 100 Percent
Absolutely- every time i walk the pooch he interrupts me with a sniff and pee here and there.. so I could never build up to a good unbroken speed..
My husband with PD exercises almost everyday including weights, cycling and stretching, but a session of 'fast' walking really helps (thanks John!) After a short time he is able to step out more, lengthen his stride and get his arm swinging. By the end of the walk his walking is back to being very close to normal. Lockdown has given us lots of opportunities for some great walks.
I am so pleased to hear this. I must warn you that he can do too much, which is worse for him, than too little.
He should only walk every second day, that of course is if he is doing the walking as fast as he possibly can. Then do other exercise on the in-between days.
Hey John- what's to reason for every other day? If I can do almost every day isn't it even better for the pd?
If fast cycling and fast walking outside is so beneficial for PWPs, then wouldn’t fast walking on a treadmill be just as good?
• in reply to
My neurologist told me the body mechanics of walking on the ground versus on a treadmill are quite different and are not equivalent.
JohnPepper• in reply to
Agreed!
JohnPepper• in reply to
It is possible that many high exertion exercises will have some effect on Pd.
Pd is a brain problem. I have watched many people watching TV while they are on the treadmill. It is therefore not involving the brain to any extent.
It is unlikely that cycling can be maintained at maximum speed for one hour. Cycling does not involve the brain to much extent.
Fast walking involves the brain and the body to a maximum extent. We have to concentrate on the walking surface, balance , length of step, placing of feet, when landing, pushing forward on the toes of the back foot. It can be maintained at maximum effort for an hour.
For some unknown reason many people have an aversion to walking, don't ask me why.
Walking can be impossible due to weather conditions so, during those times I would suggest that cycling on an indoor track or walking on a treadmill set to a meaningful incline, would be the best alternatives, but none of those does what the walking does.
Thanks..that makes sense..
I’m trying to do fast walking but I can’t because my left foot cramps up and my toes curl after 5-15 minutes. It’s very frustrating.
Have you spoken to your Neuro about this?
Yes. It’s not uncommon apparently. He suggested Botox injections every three months. I tried it, but in the beginning of the three month cycle it made it worse so I was a little doubtful. I’ve tried this over the last two years but now my insurance doesn’t cover it so I have abandoned this. What I do now is I try to get outside for a walk when I’m most optimally medicated. Unfortunately I have Gastroparesis so the absorption of my medicine is not what it should be. Sigh...
You have my sympathies. It would be ridiculous to think that everybody can do what I have done, but even if only 30% of them can thaen that is 30% more than anything else is able to do!
How many other people have been able to do what you have done?
Countless! I have received letters from hundreds of people. I have kept over 20 of them for specific reasons. The others all say they are having success in various ways.
My book contains about 20 specific ones.
Nobody is under any compulsion to tell me how they are doing!
When I demonstrate how people in wheelchairs are immediately able to walk normally and when I show people who are FROZEN, how to immediately move and not need to freeze again, which amounts to hundreds of people, and I can honestly claim that not one single person, who has been able to hold his/her weight on their own legs, has been unable to walk normally.
Sorry, i must not have been clear.
I wanted to know how many people have been able to replicate your success?
By which i mean, how many people do you know about that have been able to stop taking PD meds entirely and live a relatively normal life 15 to 20 (or more) years post diagnosis?
No one that has come forward as far as I am aware.
I know of more than one who has claimed to have done what I have, but none of us claim to be cured. I am not allowed to put anything on this site that confirms what I do, as it is seen as self praise.
Very few people write and tell me about what they have done but I have heard from two people who claim that they are off the medication, but many more who have reduced their meds down to a very small amount.
One person, who is a retired professional footballer in the USA, is now able to play golf, at professional level, at least 3 times a week.
I wish I could post some of the emails I receive from successful patients.
"Countless! I have received letters from hundreds of people."
"Very few people write and tell me about what they have done"
🤔
Hi JohnPepper did you have tremors before the fast walking and did the tremors go away after you started fasting walking? If so how long did it take for the tremors to subside?
JohnPepper• in reply to
I do not have a resting tremor. My tremor i[happens when I do anything with my right hand and arm. It therefore is not affected by walking. However. Tremors appear to be less apparent if the body becomes fitter. The fitter you are the less the tremor. AS I do not have a resting tremor I cannot vouch for that.
I find the more I speed walk the tremor is in my left hand somehow is less noticeable- and the less I speed walk the more the tremor starts up again-
• in reply toJohnPepper
I believe you do not have PD.
Resting tremor = PD
Tremor when initiating movement = ET
“I do not have a resting tremor. My tremor happens when I do anything with my right hand.” -John Pepper
Fast walking is good for anyone and everyone regardless of their condition.
hmm777• in reply to
I don't mean to contradict you, but this is incorrect. It's atypical to have no resting tremor, but it doesn't mean you don't have PD. I know because I have PD but no resting tremor. I'm pretty sure because I was diagnosed separately by two different MDSs 5 years ago, with DaTscan support, and my treating neurologist since then has been the director of the Parkinson's Disease and Movement Disorder Center at KU Med, which is a Parkinson's Foundation Center of Excellence, so it's unlikely that my diagnosis in incorrect. It says right in my records, from both neuros: "Atypical PD Features: Tremor Absent."
• in reply tohmm777
I did NOT say you have to have a resting tremor to have PD.
You are changing what I said.
But if you have a resting tremor it generally is a sign of PD.
If your tremor is initiated by movement, it is generally a sign of ET.
Simple facts
Given the broadness of the issue at stake (opening the dopamine faucet and neuroplasticity), « Essential tremor » or not, diagnosis or misdiagnosis, what’s the point ?
Also relevant from Dr Hadlock’s book (« Recovery from Parkinson’s »):
« One issue that does arise fairly often is the diagnosis of essential tremor. Essential tremor is a condition with a tremor that resembles the resting tremor of Parkinson’s but presents with no other Parkinson’s-like symptoms.
A really good neurologist, one who knows that Parkinson’s worsens quickly in response to the mental fear induced by a correct diagnosis, and who knows that the medications have a very limited period of effectiveness, may tell a person who has early stage Parkinson’s disease that he merely has essential tremor.
This is good medicine. There is, or used to be, nothing to be gained by telling a person he had early stage Parkinson’s. And there was much to lose. However, there is now an effective treatment for Parkinson’s (the treatment provided in this book). Hopefully, over the next few decades, doctors will be more judicious in giving a diagnosis of essential tremor if what they are seeing actually is, or even might be, very early stage Parkinson’s. Even though this book shares an effective treatment for Parkinson’s disease, one may as well recover sooner rather than later.
Then again, if a patient is quite elderly and clearly not inclined to do the sometimes challenging work of recovering, it might be better that he be given the diagnosis of essential tremor, if his movement symptoms are slight. He may well live out the rest of his life with no significant motor problems, and he will not suffer the steep decline that typically occurs immediately following a diagnosis of Parkinson’s disease. »
My first three neurologists all conformed I had Pd. It was when I asked the 4th neurologist what the name of my of my tremor and I think he said it was essential tremor, but he did agree that I do have Parkinson's. All the symptoms I have been able to reduce and all the remaining symptoms do not point to having essential tremor.
That is different from a previous post: You wrote
The neurologist who diagnosed me described my tremor as 'Essential Tremor'. I am not aware that it happens in isolation (from PD). When I gave up drinking tea and coffee my tremors almost disappeared altogether.
I do not have a resting tremor I have the essential tremor. I shake when I am trying to do any fine motor functions like fastening a button. However, when I am under stress, everything is a lot worse
You obviously have a record of every post I make. That sounds a bit quirky, but if that what turns you on then maybe you can share with us exactly where I said that?
JohnPepper• in reply to
Tell my Neuros!
Of all the "therapies" I've tried, Speed walking helps the most- I get a feeling of well being, anxiety lifts, I feel more positive, tremor subsides, I sleep better, and balance and endurance improves..
I agree with John that the brain is more engaged as we have to swing our arms, keep in regular stride regardless of the terrain, and maintain good balance, all at a quick speed for up to an hour.. It's an all in one body/brain/emotion exercise.
I enjoyed challenging myself all winter to maintain a fast level of walking through the cold, snow and ice.
When this Canadian winter leaves, I'll continue cycling long distance as I've always done- but will make speed walking the primary exercise as I feel it has the biggest impact on pd.
Hi gginto
It is so nice to hear these words from someone who obviously takes life seriously and knows that what you put in is what you get back out.
Fart walking is not a cure for Pd but is a way of staying as healthy as you possibly can, regardless of the fact that you have a debilitating health condition that can be successfully managed,
My medical bills are no different to anybody else's. I have the odd health problem like anybody else, and I don't see myself as as an invalid!
I do not understand why the medical profession has not given this any support whatsoever.
It appears to be for purely financial reasons, which goes against their sworn oath to help their patients overcome their health problems.
They should feel ashamed of themselves.
John wrote, "I do not have a resting tremor. My tremor i[happens when I do anything with my right hand and arm." That kinda suggests Essential Tremor but not PD?
I just had the DAT scan. It should show whether I have PD or ET. I get result in two weeks.
I've been a distance runner since college. I ran my first marathon in 1986. I've lost count of how many races I've done since then. I've burned out several treadmills over the decades.
These days I mostly walk on the treadmill but do regular high intensity sprints also. I use a heart rate monitor. At low intensity my rate is around 90 beats per minute. At high intensity it's 130 BPM.
Yesterday walking in to the clinic it was sunny and I felt warmth on the back of my neck. Maybe that's a sign of Spring. IF so I'll be able to use the road or trails soon.
Please see my comment above responding to cclemonade regarding PD without a resting tremor.
Its good to notice some people calling out misinformation regarding tremor. Add to that that JP had no benefit from levadopa and the only drug he was on for PD was selegiline. There is alot more that points to ET not PD but what surprises me is that the link is not about More evidence of the benefits of high intensity exercise but is a study to determine the benefit of high v moderate intensity exercise
My Neuro's records state otherwise.
I stopped because those medications were not making me BETTER! I did not say they did not work.
Quote: “I took only one med, SElegiline, for ten years. After 10 years, my condition had improved so much, nobody would ever have known that I had Pd. Strange enough, my neurologist, in the ninth year, put me onto sinamet, which did nothing for me. I took myself off it after three months. “
Please show me my post where I said I only took Selegiline? I took Sinemet and Symmetrel for two years and because the was no improvement in my condition I asked my neuro to put me on something that can slow down Pd. He put me onto Selegiline , which I took for 8 years.
This was your original story. You changed it later. Alot you have slightly altered to fit your narrative.
Well done!
The whole purpose of these statements saying I don't have Pd is to stop people following what I do, because : -
I DON'T TAKE MEDICATION!
I DON'T NEED TO CONSULT NEUROLOGISTS!
THAT'S NOT GOOD FOR BUSINESS!
WE CAN'T HAVE THAT - HEAVENS ALIVE, DOESN'T THIS MAN UNDERSTAND?
• in reply toJohnPepper
Really? That is your defense? People like me saying you don't have PD is bc I'm advocating for meds and neurologists and big business. That is ridiculous. That is a pathetic argument. Give it another go....why would people like me say you do not have PD? One, you clearly do not understand what it is like to live with PD. You have repeatedly said on HU that fast walking is the only way to be better. That is completely FALSE and you are spreading misinformation as if you are an authority when you are NOT. That is why I am speaking out against you. You are spreading misinformation that is harmful to people with Parkinson's. Of course fast walking helps. Any physical therapist will agree. But to say it is the only way to improve is just cruel. Is this the legacy you want to leave John Pepper? Intentionally disciminating false information to a vulnerable population?
My father has PD. Despite extreme perseverence he lost his ability to walk independently. His physcial therapists and doctors were working with him to keep his strength up as much as possible with safe and appropriate strenuouse exercises. He insisted on trying to walk independently despite his legs inability to hold him bc he has advanced PARKINSONS (which you do not understand) He fell and his ribs punctured his lungs. He is far worse off now than if he had heeded the advise of walking with assistance and doing the strenuous exercises as advised by physical therapy and occupational therapy.
You don't need to take medication not because you are better than us in any way but bc you are fortunate. You don't need to consult neurologists not bc you have some special magic about you but because you are blessed to not need a neurologist.
Your legacy will be that you have spread false information to thousands of people with a debilitating disease claiming you have it yourself when you clearly do not.
(For anyone intent on defending fast walking; of course fast walking improves PD symptoms. But, John Pepper has not parted the red sea. He takes somehting that obviously helps and claims it is the only thing that helps PD. He is a fake so wrapped up in his narrative that even he believes it.)
JohnPepper• in reply to
Wow! Such venom! Such hatred!
I understand your your revulsion and where you are coming from. I understand your hurt and I am sorry you feel that way about me.
There are many different forms of Pd. No two patients are the same.
How can you say I don't have Pd. and that I am a fake? At the age of 58 I was no longer able to work or function properly. My neurologist put me onto Pd medication, which I expected to make me feel better, but it didn't. I continued to get worse.
My late wife persuaded me to take part in a walking program that is aptly named, "RUN?WALK for LIFE". That turned my life around. That and a Pd medication called an MAO-b inhibitor, which is still the only Pd medication that I know of that can slow the progression of Pd.
In addition to the walking and the Medication, I had to get rid of all the stress in my life, which meant giving up my job, my business that took me so many years to build up, and to willingly let it go, for the sake of the staff and all those people who helped the company grow. On top of those changes I learned how to overcome many of my movement problems by using my conscious brain to take control of my walking , writing and shaking.
I have been able to help hundreds of other Pd patients, all over the English-speaking world to walk properly and take back their lives.
The medical profession did not like what I was doing and removed me from my position as Chairman of our National Pd Association, which I had held for over 5 years. They did, what you are doing, saying that I don't have Pd, although 4 different neurologists, WHO HAVE EXAMINED ME are in no doubt that I DO HAVE PD!
Not one of those neurologists who got me removed from out National Association, have allowed me to show any of their Pd patients how to overcome their FREEZING and many of the other walking problems.
Why would any doctor NOT WANT THEIR PATIENTS TO GET BETTER? WHY WOULD THEY NOT WANT THEN TO OVERCOME MANY OF THEIR PROBLEMS?
The only answer I can come up with is that I present a danger to them and the pharmaceutical industry, who stand to lose a fortune if other Pd patients mangae ot do what I have done!
I have helped hundreds of people, but whather they have continued to do what I have taught them, which I know mamny of them have not, but many others have, it is everybody's choice as to what they are prepared to do to help themselves!
It is not easy doing the walking or to try to be positive, but it IS POSSIBLE!
WE are all DIFFERENT!
AaronS• in reply to
Cc I see your point, however just focusing on the act of fast walking is not where JP is making.
It's the fact that somehow he has managed to trigger the brain to kick start more dopamine production. It's not a false claim, I have had twice now heavy gym sessions where I kinda nearly passed out....almost but my symptoms left completely for about 5 minutes both times.
No I have not replicated this for a while now and no studies can back this up, nor would I let anyone near me to try....because people are dumb.
However if you can get to this level and trick the brain to start up again then your on a win.
Another example, I stated taking creatine after the gym again, apparently studies say it doesn't work on PD symptoms, I personally call shit on that as when it's in my system and not on meds I'm so different....the stuff works for me.
But if you replicated that it may not have the same effect....however did I just lie to you and make that up? Even tho some idiot in a white lab coat says it doesn't do anything
Another reason why outdoor fast walking is superior to indoor exercises - sun exposure. Huge!
Some people will spend $$$ to wear head gadgets for replacement light exposure therapy.
Many notice benefits such as in the recent post below -
healthunlocked.com/cure-par...
We are all different! I don't find WALKING to be degrading or 'Not Done', I find it absolutely necessary and wonder why we would choose to walk indoors when outdoors is so much nicer. BUT! weather is always an issue, so we have to make other plans.
People forget that there are many different subtypes in PD with distinctively different symptoms. The naysayers may argue with you endlessly but you’ve been preaching what’s free and beneficial for all of us for many decades and the science is only slowly catching up to explain why. You’re helping many people in my opinion who see you as a hopeful example to follow so you keep going!
What's good for the goose should be good for the gander. If there are many subtypes, perhaps he could recognise that and cease telling people that fast-walking is the 'only way' to 'reverse' PD symptoms, which he seemingly does so solely on the basis that it is what worked for him, despite being told by others (incl in this very thread) that there are other forms of exercise that are effective (for them).
It is JohnPepper that claims his way is the 'only' way, not anyone else. Not sure how you have missed that.
I know he had repeatedly qualified it saying that in his opinion fast walking outdoors is the “best” way, with his own experience of indoor gym workouts worsening his symptoms. It is up to individuals to decide what to take in for positive benefits and we’re all adults here. No point in arguing endlessly under different accounts don’t you think?
He scarcely offers that qualification. In this very thread he uses 'only' repeatedly. I think you are being very generous, and that if someone talked about a particular vitamin (or pretty much anything else) in the same fashion that he talks about other exercise (I.e dismissing it on the basis that it didnt work for them), you wouldn't be nearly as forgiving. I think you know it, too.
His responses does get scattered and incomplete and may come across emotional but he is 86 so give him some break. I could only wish I’ll be nearly as physically active at his age. He has been berated repeatedly and got piled on for promoting beneficial free outdoor exercise that requires no special equipment nor membership. Thinking positively is beneficial for everyone!
Thanks for that! My goal is to take away the myth that there is nothing you can do to slow down the progression of Pd. I know fast walking does not work for everybody but if it works for 30% of patients, that is 3 million people!!!
Do you know of anybody doing any other form of exercise that has reversed their Pd? Do you know of anybody doing anything else that has reversed their Pd?
There is so such thing as 'reversing' PD. It is a term that you made up to sell your book. The same book in which you refer to a neurologist that told you "“You exhibit no symptoms of Pd,and it is quite obvious that you never had it in the first place. You had what is known as Parkinsonism, which could have been caused by medication or by another chemical source, possibly crop spraying chemicals”
Oddly enough, you dont mention this interaction when you reassure people that you have been dx with PD by four different neurologists.
When I say 'The only Way' I mean the only way I know that has been proved to reverse the symptoms of Pd. Dancing and Boxing do not reverse symptoms, but they do give you a wonderful feeling of 'Being Normal again'.If anybody with Pd has a walking problem then they should be doing the fast walking.
If they have a type of Pd that does not affect their walking. then the chances are that it may not reverse their symptoms. We can't win then all!
How do you know that dancing and boxing don't 'reverse' symptoms?
Do you know of anybody whose symptoms have got better since they started dancing? Do you know anybody doing boxing who has done the same? I don't
There's literally thousands of people saying that their symptoms have improved after undertaking all kinds of exercise. You are completely disinterested in absorbing any new informatiom that doesnt further confirm your existing beliefs around Fast Walking so there is no point telling you about it. Others have wasted too much time trying.
If these people's symptoms have improved and they carry on doing whatever exercise they are doing, then those symptoms will get better and better. Eventually they will be able to tell everybody that such and such an exercise has reversed their Pd.I would love to hear what other exercise brings about that result. Let us hear about it!
Everything you say is negative! Where would we all get if we listen to your negativity?
You are the negative one, by disparaging all other forms of exercise. If people listened to you and you alone, no one that benefits from other exercise would enjoy those benefits. I am literally pointing out to you that the important thing is that people do exercise that works for them.
But then i dont have a book to sell or overseas trips i want others to pay for, so i guess my motivations are impure 🙄
People are talking about their exercise on the internet, including on this forum, you just have no interest in reading about it, and in fact you actively discourage people from even trying other forms of exercise.
Telling people what you think is the best product does not disparage any of the other products. Is anything that tells us what is best a disparaging statement? People are free to choose any exercise they please. Telling them that something is better is not NEGATIVE IT IS POSITIVE ADVIVCE!
Perhaps you should review the forum guidelines?
"2. Post from your own experience
Try "For me, this worked..." rather than "You should do this..."
You can say that! I'm in Ireland! We have a weather app and walk on the times theres no rain or less rain...
Hi there, I too am a distant ultra runner and believe any exercise is good for PWP but I have a real problem with certain suggestions and comments made by others. “The more fit you are the less tremor you will have”? WTH! Ok so is he saying I’m not fit ? I do have some tremors. I think if we can keep moving no matter what it may be is great for the body and mind of all of us. Karen
I'm fitter than many of the people I know. Maybe exercise is why I don't have bradykinesia or dyskinesia but it's a stretch to say exercise affects tremor.
I manage to consciously control my tremor, when I am not too tired and when I am not stressed, in other words, when I am not on HU facing unfounded criticism!
I don't know of any study/results that have shown that tremor is reduced because of exercise.. but would be good to know for sure...
@gginto, cycling is one that works 🚴♀️🚴♂️🚲👍
davisphinneyfoundation.org/...
Cycling is good but it is not weight-bearing. When walking, we carry the weight of our bodies and therefore do a lot more work. There is no free-wheeling when walking. The best results are gained by walking.
@johnpepper, your point taken and I agree with your basic premise and perspective. I quickly shot off the link to cycling because @gginto asked for scientific proof /evidence of the link between exercise and Parkinson's.
Interestingly enough as I started searching for scientific validation of the thesis that you hold and advocate, I found that your idea is slowly catching on and goes by different names. Some call it brisk walking. I hope that you have thought about copyrighting the term that you use, namely fast walking. I don't think that you have any profit making intentions, but others do. If I get some time, I will search the USA copyright database and see if anyone has copyrighted anything similar.
In the meantime, here's a link to one study iof brisk walking recently completed.
NCT04048291
RKM
Would you mind clarifying?
John's "basic premise and perspective" is that fast walking is superior to all other exercise because it puts the body into 'fight or flight' mode because it is 'not natural'. This then results in the creation of endogenous GDNF which then repairs the dopamine neurons in the brain.
Do you agree with that?
May I clarify what I am saying? Fast Walking is superior to all other exercise (For Pd patients!). Fast walking is physically harder than cycling, mainly because it involves carrying the weight of the body, which cyclists don't. Much more energy is expended in fast walking. It is not natural, in my humble opinion, to walk fast! If you are in a hurry you would run. Normal walking is controlled by the subconscious brain but Fast walking is not. From personal experience, I have to concentrate very hard on my fast walking. If I don't I cannot walk anywhere near as fast and it is dangerous. Because of the danger factor I believe the 'Fight or Flight' reaction comes into play.Have YOU EVER TRIED TO WALK AS FAST AS POSSIBLE?
No, @kevowpd, I don't endorse every thing that @johnpepper says, but after discovering that the idea of "brisk" or "fast" walking has been in clinical research with a semantically different name bothers me. Obviously, the clinical research has a profit motive. Ever heard of Theracycle?
All I am saying is that John is claiming that "quick" walking has benefits and there is evidence that the idea is not all hogwash. The rest of the forum members back and forth with John is of little interest to me and I see exaggeration from both sides in an effort to discredit each other. We owe it to our good health to have an open mind, don't you agree? If I wasn't suffering, I would be amused.
I am just thinking that it's ironic that at the end, someone else might make off with the profits 😂😭
RKM
Firstly, dont kid yourself that john hasnt made money. He's had a book out for many years, soliticts 'donations' on his website and was happy to have PWP pay for his international travel so he could conduct his speaking tours. All of this in relation to a condition he may very well not even have, a possibility he decribes as 'academic' in his book, which is just bizarre, given how prescriptive he wants to be in relation to his own experience.
Secondly, few dispute that exercise is beneficial in PD. All exercise. Including walking, yes, and many other things. There is no credible evidence that walking is superior to all other exercise.
I am not going to respond to those ridiculous assumptions. My taz returns tell me a totally different story.
What profits are you talking about?
Intellectual property, John. IP as they call it. This is a cutthroat world, not everyone is nice and pozsessed of benign intentions. How would you feel if you woke up one day and found that someone else out there decided to copyright "Fast Walking for Parkinson's" and sued you tomorrow for using the phrase/name.
I know that you don't want the money or at least you say that you don't. However, that shouldn't stop you from owning the rights to that phrase and monetizing (aka profits) and use it to benefit Parkinson's research. Or give it away for Christ's sakes. As I told you, I was more intrigued by the choice of names for the same thing / action and avoiding the use of the phrase that you use.
Either they are away that you have been using it for a while or someone owns it already. So, if the study used that phrase in their clinical research recruitment, which is funded by research dollars, you can ask for a licensing fee for the right to use that phrase.
Donald Trump made a fortune using this concept and believe me people can be ruthless about it. For example, a pharmaceutical company in New Jersey, patented and copyrighted the therapeutic qualities of Turmeric and told the Indian government that any one in India using that name or derivative benefits of Turmeric would be sued. Now, tbink of it, Turmeric is known to the Indian people at least as far back as Mucuna Pruriens, which is 4500 years.
Does this all make sense?
RKM
It certainly does make sense. Thanks for your kind interest.
My first reaction to your suggestion is obviously, "Can I afford to do that?"
I am fast going on 87 and still have some savings left, but no income other than book sales, which do not cover all my costs of doing what I do.
I will follow it up and see if it is viable.
Thanks
@johnpepper / John. I am willing to help a fellow PwP 🤔 for free. Let's take this offline and talk via email or HU direct messages.
RKM
That would be great but I am no longer allowed to give people my email address. Of you look at some older responses from me you should be able to find it or even look on Google
Well put- we have to make the best of all the info that's thrown at us- then eventually we all individually decide on what's best for ourselves.. I definitely believe what John P. says about fast walking because I've put it to the test and it works for ME.. so I'm willing to recommend it to others. Personally I don't think John is out for the $$ he always offers his advice via email free.. I bought his paperback-which isn't expensive- and there's some good info in it..
Thanks!
Thanks for your kind support and interest. I need time to read everything you sent me, but I'll find it sometime this weekend.
John, disagree. I was able to get my heart rate up a lot easier with cycling. If you cycle up 7 +% grades for 4+ hours, you get a fantastic workout. Did that for 25 years. Then got PD. Walking now but getting knee pain. No knee pain with cycling. Presently Not cycling due to back issues, wish I was.
Does cycling produce GDNF in the brain? I don't know what the answer to that is.
Pulse rate is not related to the production of GDNF in the brain, at least, my experience tells me that. I did high intensity work in the gym , 6 days of the week for one hour. I increased it to 90 minutes for the first two years after diagnosis, and my symptoms got worse far quicker than they had been doing before diagnosis. I can only assume that doing high intensity cycling, rowing, treadmill ,and step climbing at my maximum rate, would have helped me to get better, if heart rate was what was producing GDNF. It obviously was not.
John. I don’t know if cycling creates GDNF or not. But if you cycle 5-7 miles at a 7-10% grade after a 35-45 mile ride, you use your brain plenty. You get mentally strong. It’s my belief that all my years of intense cycling may have postponed my PD symptoms considerably. I’m 73 and on C/L this year which has improved my QOL. Gym, walking, cycling, boxing, etc. all good for PD.
I was friends with a German Pd patient who did a lot of cycling. He did not like walking and preferred to cycle. At no stage during all the years we corresponded di he get any better.
He may well have slowed down the progression but he succummed quite a while ago.
PD, I have met Davis Phinney an Olympic Cyclist with PD. And for JP to say what he promotes and has researched doesn’t work , I shake my head. And for he to tell me that only sprinters run all out on marathons , has he done a marathon? I’ve done well over 100 and while I’m not as fast as Olympic atheletes I was pretty fast for my little body. I support that he has found something that clearly works for him , and gets others moving. But don’t discount what works for others and only his way works. Karen
@kwinholt, one thing that puzzles me is the paradoxical nature of the disease. I always wondered how or why an Olympic cyclist could get Parkinson's if the very activity is a symptomatic therapy.
Same thing with exercise in general which helps. Parkinson's is a movement disorder and it seems particularly cruel that moving is what makes you feel better. There is much that we don't know.
RKM
Does cycling produce GDNF? My guess is that it does not.Why is this question important?
The 2003 study done in Frenchay Hospital showed that inserting artificial GDNF into the brains of 6 patients with far advanced Pd, reversed their symptoms of all 6 participants by something like 60%. So we know that GDNF reverses the symptoms of Pd. Further tests were done on more patients, but I have never seen the results of those tests. No more studies have been done on GDNF since then. WHY?
When I have questioned neurologists and speakers at conferences, as to why more studies have not been done on GDNF, they have all said that GDNF does NOTHING TO IMPROVE THE SYMPTOMS OF PD!
Knowing that GDNF did improve the conditions of all 6 participants in that 2003 study, why are we not looking to find ways of producing more natural GDNF in the brain? I get no response to that question at conferences. WHY?
When I started to do fast walking in 1994, because it had helped my wife with her own health problems, I experienced an improvement in my symptoms within four months of starting the fast walking. I have continued fast walking every second day since then, slowly building up to one hour every second day. Doing more does nothing for me.
After eight years of fast walking my condition had improved so much that I was able to come off all Pd medication and I have been able to stay off it ever since 2002.
Getting artificial GDNF directly into the brain and constantly replacing the container with more GDNF was not economically viable. So nothing more has been heard of that.
WALKING COSTS NOTHING! THE BENEFITS ARE OBVIOUS IN ALL THOSE WHO DO IT!
The medical profession have shown no interest in speaking to me about Fast Walking, and we have to draw our own conclusions about that. It is certainly not in the interests of Big Pharma to have Pd patients no longer needing medication, none of which does anything to reverse the progression of Pd anyway!.
Many participants in this HU discussion have done everything they can to persuade other Pd patients that I do not have Pd. Some others have denigrated me because I wrote a book about my experiences, which I am not allowed to speak about, as it is viewed as SELF PROMOTION.
As my story is the only positive story in all the years I have participated in HU, it should be supported and not discouraged,
I can understand the powerful forces that stand to lose lots of money. Lots more people do the fast walking, and these powerful forces will do everything they can to prevent me from spreading my message to others.
There are many Pd patients who feel they are unable to do fast walking, but that is their choice.
I sincerely believe that fast walking is capable of helping at least one third of all Pd sufferers, and that is many millions of people.
It has cost me far more to do all the the things I have been doing than what I receive by selling my book. It is not a viable proposition, but it is my gift to my fellow patients. I will continue gathering evidence supporting the benefits of fast walking, which I am not allowed to publish on HU, so I have to do it, one by one by emails,
You can believe or disbelieve what I have said, if it gets allowed by HU.
Forgive me for disagreeing with you. I only did athletics at school.
When I competed for the short distance races I sprinted all the way. But anything over 400 metres I had to run at a comfortable pace and sprint at the end. Cross country was the same. I could not possibly sprint 5 miles across country, and I don't think anybody else could.
We have an annual 92 K run here in SA with contestants from all over the world taking part. Nobody in that race sprints at any time, except at the end, if there is somebody close at hand doing his/her best to win.
It takes several months practicing walking fast. To begin with, few people are able to walk as fast as they can for more than 10 minutes. It takes several months, walking every second day to be able to maintain it for one hour. That improves with practice. I cannot walk any faster than I do, at any time on my walks, including at the end.
It is my contention that Fast Walking produces GDNF in the area of the brain affected by Pd! That, as its name tellss us that it repairs or replaces damaged brain cells. Those brain cells control the manufacture of Dopamine, the shortage of which is the cause of Pd.
It stands to reason, that if I am correct and my brain now produces more dopamine then my symptoms will be less.
To prove this, I have not ben able to do much fast walking over the past 30m months, so my brain is producing less dopamine and my symptoms are currently a lot worse.
At the age of 86, I am unable to walk as fast as I used to or for as much time as I need to.
I am asking people to try doing the fast walking, not because it gives me added income, but because IT WORKS!
Thanks for the positive support! Please stay positive and make the most of what we have!
In 2003 a study was done that proved GDNF reverses the symptoms of Pd. The problem was, they had to insert the GDNF directly into the brain. So we know there is a natural chemical called GDNF that is produced by the brain itself and all we have to do is to find out how to produce more FDNF.
I am sure that prolonged intensive exercise produces GDNF, but that still has to be proved. Fast walking is the only exercise I am aware of that we are all capable of maintaining for a prolonged period of time (1 Hour) at maximum effort.
Nobody can run flat out for one hour, and certainly not older people. Nobody can box non-stop for one hour and nobody can dance at top speed for one hour.
I may be absolutely wrong in thinking that fast walking produces GDNF, but I know of hundreds of people are doing the fast walking and getting the same results, so until I hear of anybody else reversing their symptoms I'll stick to my guns and keep on pushing fast walking. I get NOTHING for doing this! I just want Pd patents to know there 'ÍS SOMETHING THEY CAN DO TO REVERSE THE SYMPTOMS OF PD'. Is that a bad thing?
I assume the pharmaceutical industry don't like it and neurologists don'twant to lose patients, but you can't please everybody!
JP, I beg to differ in your comment that no one can all out run for more then an hour. I’m a marathon runner and have all out ran for 3-4 hours and know runners in their 70’s that do the same. I’m not suggesting that running is the answer for everybody, I believe any exercise/movement is beneficial. Karen
Not true! Only sprinters run flat out for the full race and even they manage to get a bit extra at the finish. The rest run at a comfortable pace and sprint at the end. If you don't agree then you are fooling yourself.
• in reply toKwinholt
Hi Karen, I’m amazed by you. And I have never heard of runners in their 70’s. That amazes me.
I have recently been (barely) running. It’s more like scooting along for 1/2 mile at a time but I’m determined to work my way up to a 5k. May I ask, are you still running?
I think often of how you and a few other ladies on here worked for years post DX. I am so inspired by that but I’m concerned I just can’t do it.
But the exercise, that I must do.
Kwinholt• in reply to
Cc, in June of 2019 I did a Spartan with my son and in July of 2019 I ran the San Francisco marathon raising money for PD. And a paper in SF was doing an article on me having PD and running a marathon to raise money for PD. Unfortunately during that marathon around about mile 15 I severed my hamstring but I continued running (sort of ) finished the marathon in excruciating pain with one of my worst times , but I finished. After MRI’s ect on October 30th 2019 I had hamstring reattachment surgery with anchors connecting my muscle back. Couldn’t walk for 3 months and and could not run for over a year. I am just now getting back to a slow walk/run. And actually today I did 7 miles. I will be 58 in July and I have just been approved a few months ago for SS disability, and submitted my retirement paperwork as well, so I no longer work . I am thankful for that as my PD is progressing and I am starting the tests to see if I’m approved for DBS surgery. My dr really thinks I am a good candidate but it scares the hell out of me. We will see how things go but bottom line, I have the final decision if I’m approved. How did your DATScan go? I’ve been thinking about you. Keep your chin up. Karen
• in reply toKwinholt
I’m originally from the north bay. We left in 2019. I miss it! You continued to run with a torn hamstring!! You are an incredibly tough cookie! I’m not or I haven’t been a tough cookie but I am determined DETERMINED that I will be from now on. And now you are back running 7 miles. Sincerely that inspires me SO much. I am responsible and cautious but I haven’t been tough or tenacious. Not anymore! I have to be now.
I foresee DBS (maybe FUS) in my future too. You have made it how long without it? 8 or so years? I hope to make it that long so my kids will be just about grown up then I will do it. It scares the hell out of me too! But what is the alternative? The alternative is not less scary in my opinion. On YOPD forums on Facebook DBS is more common than on HU where it is predominately older PWP. The YOPD people who have DBS often keep on working afterwards.
Thank you for asking about the DAT scan. Long story short, I got assessed and the neuro said I have PD (no surprise) and to hold off on getting the DAT until I do it as part of a trial I’m trying to get in to.
So, soon I guess, I hope.
Kwinholt• in reply to
Cc, Honestly when I was first confirmed I had PD and was on my meds, still running, working ect. I had it all figured out and I was going to tell everyone what they needed to do. I was telling myself , I got this. I was niave . At one point I had the control, but somewhere the power shifted and now the PD has more control. I’m still determined but realistic about my limitations. I was 49 when I was diagnosed. Karen
• in reply toKwinholt
I just want to toughen up to not crumble. I don’t foresee working and carrying on like you have done. You are a great example. Thank you Karen
🌸
Hi Karen. I admire your spirit. Have you tried to do the fast walking?
• in reply toJohnPepper
Karen is an athlete. Karen is an accomplished competitive runner.
JohnPepper• in reply to
It certainly shows up!
JohnPepper• in reply to
Hi. Giving in is not an option. If you are able to walk 100 metres or yards then you can start doing fast walking. It only needs commitment. If you can only walk AS FAST ASYOU CSAN for am whole minute and if you can continue then do so. If not, then stop and do the same again in 2 days time. After the 2nd week then try to walk a bit longer and when you know how long you can walk before you have to stop then walk that time for the next 2 weeks. Then after every 2nd week keep increasing it as long as you can. When you get to 1 hour then don't walk any longer, just keep walking as fast as you can. You will be amazed how fit you will get!
I am not prepared to pay the cost of datscan to prove whether I have Pd or not, my list of symptoms an not possible any other form of movement disorder. If anybody is prepared to pay the cost of a Datscan I will do it willingly.
Can you walk now? Do you think your body will be able to let you walk at a reasonable speed?
JohnPepper• in reply to
Go for it GIRL!!!
Just curious- how are your knees doing?
Not well. But at 86, what do I expect? most of my knee problems are caused by walking on the outside of my right foot and that makes my right knee incredibly sore. I have to try to remember to place my weight on the inside of the foot, and when I do, the pain goes away.
I don't see your point?
Perhaps the idea that if a little bit of exercise is good then A LOT of exercise should be better. But doing A LOT doesn't give the body time to recover and heal. Just a guess.
Too much exercise can do more harm than good. The best is to start slowly and build up the take and the effort slowly until you are exercising for an hour. The next day, don't exercise, just relax and walk around casually. Be patient and get stronger, SLOWLY!
Your body needs time to recover from strenuous exercise!
Awesome, and yes you should always have rest days. I’m so happy for what ever works for someone . I take pride in being a person that takes care of herself (exercise, eat right , don’t drink , try to get good sleep) . That being said , taking care of myself didn’t stop me from getting cancer and parkinsons. I still continue to take care of myself and hasn’t stopped the PD from progressing. I’m all for whatever works because we are all different and I would never tell someone what they are doing is wrong if it’s working for them . I have a problem with things being said like “cure”, “stops progression”, or telling others what they are doing isn’t right. Let’s face it , this disease is awful and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone . We all need to support each other not put each other down. Take care. Karen
• in reply toKwinholt
The basis for my concern is that if PWP like my father were to take John Pepper, seriously thinking that “fast walking” is the “only way” they would either be very discouraged and feel hopeless or push themselves beyond what is safe for them as my father did. Prior to his fall, my Dad was at home with a caregiver. Now, bc of his fall, my poor Dad needs to be in a nursing home bc he needs a hoyer lift to move him. And I have a debilitating foot problem making me incapable of consistent fast walking. If I were to take John Pepper literally as some do, thinking fast walking is the only way, I would feel doomed.
I do not want to be cruel to a delusional man but his advise which he states as fact, I fear can really cause harm to many PWP.
Kwinholt• in reply to
Cc, I totally agree. I have a problem with the words “cure”, “stop progression being used as well. Whatever helps someone have a good day is a plus in my book but one size doesn’t fit all. I’m sorry to hear your dad is having bad days. You have a different perspective then some of us, watching your father struggle , now yourself being diagnosed with PD . I am so sorry you have this fight too. Just know that people are here for you and support you. ❤️ Karen
I hope you don't think I have ever claimed to be cured?
I do claim to have reversed many of my symptoms, but they return, when I am unable to walk because of other health problems.
Do you not believe my claim to have reversed my symptoms?
Hikoi• in reply to
You are wise to be concerned, people have left this forum because they cannot tolerate the fast walking mantra with no basis in science. Of course walking makes you feel better, exercise does. Though the quote fromJP (I have now deleted) claims that 90 minute gym exercise did not help in fact he writes it made it worse
RUN/WALK for LIFE has been scientifically designed and tested, for people in general, not for Pd patients specifically. You don't count me as having reversed many of my symptoms, mainly, but not entirely, due to the walking.
My late wife persuaded me to join them. She had lost 14Kgs in weight and come off her Blood Pressure and antidepressant pills, after having taken them for many years.
Many other people in our group overcame other health problems that the medical profession had failed to do!
Have you tried to do it? If not, was it because you are incapable of walking or did you just decide , in your wisdom, that It is no good?
• in reply toJohnPepper
You are missing the point, the same point I have made repeatedly. I will give this another try.
I am not debating whether fast walking works or not. As I have repeatedly stated in previous attempts to communicate with you, fast walking can help with Parkinson’s. That is established and obvious. Every physical therapist would agree.
The whole point I have been repeatedly trying to get through is this:
TO TELL PEOPLE WITH PARKINSON’S THAT FAST WALKING IS THE “ONLY WAY” AS YOU RELENTLESSLY DO IS NOT ONLY FALSE BUT CRUEL.
FAST WALKING IS NOT THE ONLY WAY TO IMPROVE AND FIGHT BACK AGAINST PD. THAT IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE.
YOU ARE INTENTIONALLY SPREADING MISINFORMATION.
It is my belief you are doing this bc you relish the adoration and this is keeping you from letting go of spreading this false information.
If you were to state that “ fast walking is one means by which one can fight back against PD and that in your experience it has removed your symptoms and helped many other people.,” But you don’t do that, you tell innocent people that it is the only way which is intentionally and knowingly spreading false information.
I have a screen shot of you stating, “PD will never have a cure.” And then you went on to say that fast walking is the only way to essentially cure.
JohnPepper• in reply to
I am sorry that I lack the ability to NOT MISLEAD PEOPLE! I have no intentions of misleading them.
I thought I was telling them the following:
1. Fast walking is the only way that I know of that can reverse the symptoms of Pd, to a point where they no longer need Pd medication. They do not always get to the point where they can stop all medication but they can reduce it and avoid many of the side effects, which are sometimes worse than the symptoms.
2, Pd medication only hides some of the symptoms, temporarily. That is not permanent! That also gets less and less, meaning the patient has to take more and more until it no longer works at all.
3. If you know of any other treatment that does what fast walking does, then please tell us about it.
4. Maybe I am not telling everybody STRONGLY enough that it does not work form everybody! Some patients are too far down the track to be able to reverse their symptoms. Others have got other health problems that prevent them from doing fast walking. I have merely assumed that that was obvious, but I have not been putting this over very strongly. I APPOLOGIZE FOR NOT HAVING DONE THIS.
5. PLEASE TELL US ALL WHAT ELSE YOU KNOW THAT ACTUALLY REVERSES PD SYMPTOMS FOR MORE THAN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME!
6. I am not selling a product!
7. I don't get paid by anybody for trying to help them!
8. Adulation is in the minds of people and does not bring any physical benefit to the recipient of that adulation. I can live without it. I don't look for it. ALL I WANT IS FOR LOTS OF OTHER PD PATIENTS TO REVERSE THEIR SYMPTOMS!
9. I also would like the medical profession to take what I am doing, seriously. They might tell their patients to EXERCISE! Not a single NEUROLOGIST has ever witnessed one of their wheelchair-bound patients being shown how to walk properly.
10. Neurologists blatantly got me removed from the position of running out National Pd Association.
11. Whilst on every tour, I asked for the names of each National Parkinson's Association for a list of their members, but was given the identical response, word for word, from each of them., for not wanting to do so. What I do cannot be tested in a DOUBLE BLIND STUDY! How can patients not know they are walking? In a double blind study they need half the participants to do the walking and the other half to not know they are doing the walking! How can anybody do that?
12. I apologize to everybody I may have misled. That has not been my objective.
13. I have a feeling that scientists have NEVER BEEN LOOKING FOR A CURE FOR PD!
14. The ONLY ILLNESSES THAT SCIENTISTS ATTEMPT TO CURE ARE ILLNESSESES THAT KILL US!
15. The manufacturers of drugs cannot make much money selling a cure only ONCE. They make a great deal of money TREATING ILLNESSES FOR YEARS AND YEARS BEFORE THEY DIE!!! That is good business and scientists and drug manufacturers are in business to make MONEY! WE have to acceot that hard fact of life. This COVID-19 has only been around a little more than a year and they have alre ady found many different VACCINES! But for the common cold, they say they have been looking for a cure for nearly 200 years! Just think how much money ism made from treating the common cold!!!
16, We are all grownups. We have to face the facts of life! There is NEVER GOING TO BE A CURE FOR PD!
SORRY EVERYBODY!
" Fast walking is the only way that I know of that can reverse the symptoms of Pd, to a point where they no longer need Pd medication. They do not always get to the point where they can stop all medication but they can reduce it and avoid many of the side effects, which are sometimes worse than the symptoms."
This is intentionally misleading people. By saying "They do not always get to the point where they can stop all medication" you are implying that a fair portion (or even some) of them do get to that point, which is evidently false, or at least something for which you have zero evidence.
I exercise bbut not fast wallking because I don’t take your advice seriously. I think it is unfounded, unscientific, wishful thinking. I am just as certain you do not have PD as I am certain I do. I know you will now attack my character and tell me I am working for the doctors or drug companies.
You write above
“Why would any doctor NOT WANT THEIR PATIENTS TO GET BETTER? WHY WOULD THEY NOT WANT THEN TO OVERCOME MANY OF THEIR PROBLEMS?The only answer I can come up with is that I present a danger to them and the pharmaceutical industry, who stand to lose a fortune if other Pd patients manage to do what I have done!”
Don’t forget what you wrote some time ago and I quote:
Dr Doidge spoke to me last week and told me in no uncertain terms to STOP THINKING THAT NEUROLOGISTS EVERYWHERE ARE DOING EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO STOP MY STORY FROM BEING BELIEVED OUT THERE. I feel sure that he knows that certain neurologists might feel insecure with this threat to their earnings……. but I am also sure in my own mind that what he has said is true and I will no longer propagate that idea
I apologize for having said this on many occasions and will see that I never do it again, believing that it is NOT TRUE.
You are entitled to believe or disbelieve whatever you choose. The number of patients who have have has wonderful results from taking up the fast walking is testament enough for me.
It costs nothing to do and the exercise can only make us fitter and more able to fight the symptoms. That is common sense.
There are no controlled studies on fast walking because :-
1. Who would pay for them?
2. How can a person take part in a walking study and not know he is doing it?
You appear to ignore the number of Patients who have been able to immediately walk, after being shown how to do it. How could I have found this out if I did not have the same problem and overcome it myself in the first place?
JohnPepper• in reply to
Can you name anything else that has reversed the symptoms of Pd? I can't!
That is why I say it is the only way. That does not mean that everybody can do it!
It stands to reason that if a patient is unable to walk, for whatever reason, it is not going to do anything for him/her.
Do you think I should therefore not tell anybody about it? I don't make a cent telling people about it, My guess is that only a third of Pd patients could possibly benefit from it, but that is still a lot of people.
Rock Steady boxing, cycling and treadmill running are well documented as ameliorating PD symptoms.
A third??? You evidently can't point to one person that has replicated your result so a third sounds extremely high.
A third of 10 million is quite a lot of people. A third of the people I have personally helped is also a lot of people, but 30% is better than nothing! I can point o many people but I am not allowed to post those responses here!
You can't even point to one person that has replicated your result. You have just pulled one-third from thin air. If your 'system' worked for even a tiny fraction of the PD population, there would be tens of thousands of PWP walking around 30 years post dx completely med-free. And quite simply, there are not. You are very clearly only interested in self-promotion.
Everywhere I have been in England, Australia, New Zealand, USA, Canada , where I gave multiple talks and demonstrations and several countries in which I only gave a couple of demonstrations, were all highly successful.
I have yet to meet ANYBODY WITH WALKING PROBLEMS, even those in WHEELCHAIRS, who were not immediately able to walk NORMALLY, after only a few minutes of being shown how. That is 100% successful, because I physically showed them how to do it.
I also successfully showed everybody how to drink without spilling anything., and how to write legibly.
If you are a genuine Pd patient with a walking problem and you want to know how to do these things then email me at johnpepper@telkomsa.net and give me your email address and I will send you full details of how to do these things. I do not charge anything for doing this. I never charged anybody overseas for any of the demonstrations and talks. I believe that some of them made a donation to the organizers. I asked for nothing, but did accept money towards the airfares.
"...I also successfully showed everybody how to drink without spilling anything., and how to write legibly.
If you are a genuine Pd patient with a walking problem and you want to know how to do these things then email me at johnpepper@telkomsa.net and give me your email address and I will send you full details of how to do these things..."
Okay John, I drink a lot of coffee using my tremoring left hand and don't spill. But my handwriting is horrible. But it always has been. In med school 40 years ago an instructor looking over my shoulder complained about that Now I use my right hand to write notes. If there's a trick it's to write VERY slowly. Like a child just learning to write. Also helps to put on magnifying lenses. That sort of fits into the idea of "going big" which movement disorder specialists were pushing.
kevinoneall@gmail.com
• in reply toJohnPepper
Above, you just claimed that people in wheel chairs, once being shown by you how to walk, 100% of the time could walk normally.
Can you please confirm that? That as you stated above, 100% of the time, once you “physically showed them how to do it” “even those in wheelchairs were able to walk normally.”
That is what you stated above and I want to confirm that is what you meant.
JohnPepper• in reply to
Yes! I have shown hundreds of people how to walk of whom at least 20 were in wheelchairs. All I had to do was show them how to consciously control their movements.
The conscious brain is capable of controlling all of our movements, which our subconscious brain no longer is able to do.
It takes a while to get used to using the conscious brain, but I have been doing it now for nearly 30 years.
If you contact me at johnpepper@telkomsa.net I will send you my videos which show me teaching people how to walk. I don't charge for doing this.
Direct quote from HU by J Pepper
“I am the only Pd patient, that I know of, who has managed to reverse many of his/her movement symptoms. I am also the only patient, that I know of, who has not had to take any Pd medication anymore. For the past 11 years I have not needed to take any medication for my Pd. I had been taking Eldepryl for over 10 years, up to 2002. Other than taking that medication, I gave up my highly stressful job, immediately after diagnosis”
If I were allowed to put all the emails I receive from people who are doing these things they could answer questions. You obviously find it hard to believe. Somewhere it has been said, Öh! Ye of little faith". I can't think where I saw that!
I wonder why not a single one of these success stories has voluntarily posted about it on this forum...or any other PD forum.
I could write to several of them and ask them to do that. Why not?
We’ve been down this road before where he offers to contact his “success” stories but never does.
I have never tried to specifically contact any of the Pd patients who are doing well. But. today I have done just that to a few of them, so let us see how many respond!
I did several posts above.
Oh dear you didnt get it at all. I have removed the post. I will have to be much more direct which will bring out JP fighting.
Hikoi, I’m unclear on what you think I didn’t get , I understood exactly what you were saying. I’m sorry you felt you needed to remove your post but no worries. K
Good, you realised it was a quote from JP claiming his fast walking regime reverses PD but 90 mins at the gym makes PD worse.
Yes I know everyone is different but not that different.
Sorry to but in here. Hikoi, you are not getting the point. Hard exercise in the gym is not necessarily good for us, in fact it can be counter productive.
I only stress my own experience, and that of many others who have found fast walking to be very successful. Each to his/her own!
Where is the Proof? You are wrong about hard exercise.
@hikoi, maybe John has a point regarding too much exercise. I think that I posted recently about research studies on this.
RKM
Yes i dont disagree but my issue is not that. There are many things but the main thing is that you cannot reverse PD through fast walking. Perhaps you think you can. Good luck.
If it wasn't fast walking then what else could it have been? Have you noticed how many studies are coming out confirming my claims?
I havent seen one study that supports this claim that you can reverse PD through fast walking. I am amazed you can even suggest that!! Somebody liked his post so maybe they can tell us of their knowledge /experience and how to reduced meds and reversed the disease?
You have not seen one study on fast walking, because who would pay for such a study, if it results in people getting better and taking less, or even no, medication and no longer needing to consult a doctor?
In this very same post (see above) J P wrote
It costs nothing to do and the exercise can only make us fitter and more able to fight the symptoms. That is common sense. Of course it is!! Nobody who disagrees with you disputes that. He continued....
There are no controlled studies on fast walking because :-
1. Who would pay for them?
2. How can a person take part in a walking study and not know he is doing it?
So, what id the problem?
Wise words!
I think you make a good point but my issue is when you start to freeze and your whole body is shaking it’s kind a hard to move don’t you think? LOL
Yes! But do yourself a favour. When you freeze, just relax and consciously put all your weight on one of your feet, because you are trying to move your feet while you are standing on them both. That is impossible!
If you get somebody to help you, when you freeze and stand still, try to stand erect and consciously see how high you can raise each leg up in front of you. Then see how high you can swing your arms, Then see if you can stand up on your toes.
You will find that you can do all those things, so why can't you walk?
The answer is that the subconscious brain is no longer able to control your walking and you FREEZE!
You now have to consciously place all your weight on one leg, then lift the other leg up and move forward and plant the heel of the foot firmly on the ground in front of you, them lift the back foot off the ground and place the heel firmly on the ground in front of you.
You are now walking CONSIOUSLY!
You will never be able to walk again without having to consciously control all your movements. TOUGH! You will never be the same again! But who would know?
You can consciously bring food to your mouth without spilling it, if you hold the glass or the fork differently. you can consciously write properly, if you do it differently (BLOCK LETTERS).
Give it a try, you will be very surprised!
I live in Central new York State.Thank you so much and I definitely will do it!
Where do you live? If you contact me at johnpepper@telkomsa,net I will tell you how to overcome freezing, it is very simple. Everybody I have shown how to do it, was able to do so, immediately. It sounds like rubbish but it is 100% true!
I live in Central new York State.
I sent you an email thanks.
JP is right with freezing here, this process works for me
Thanks Aaron. You are not helping me as much as you are helping others to take charge of their lives and stop relying on medication!
Have you had freezing very long? I see you have been diagnosed three years. I’m not clear what your process is Aaron, can you explain about your freezing and what works for you?
Sure thing Hikoi 😀, so as your well aware the freezing can happen predominantly in off times, and sometimes i need to get my wife to assist me, however ill discuss the times that I need to deal with when assistance is not available. I have been stuck on the ground on my belly, I have been stuck trying to get off the toilet and my biggest foe sometimes...getting stuck between the bed and dresser table.
I hope this makes sense, I don't mean to sound pretentious but I'm still relatively muscular with a bigger amount of mass in my shoulders, this can either work for me or against me.
Now depending on the situation that im in ill try to consciously understand what I need to do to get out of the freezing episode, ill see how my weight is proportioned which leg im leaning on more, if I can use my body weight to get a rock on, what is around me to lean on, can I physically shift one of my legs to get into a better position, can I swing my left arm to get movement to try to break the dyskinetic episode.
The sad thing is your body would do this in a split second without PD, but now if we allow our body to just do its thing we get the symptoms of PD obviously.
So the concious telling of your body what to do thru slowly doing it with your body or getting a rock on of shuffling weight or moving your body parts to assist is what's meant by concious thinking.
I once spent 20 minutes not being able to get off the floor laying on my belly because my brain was telling me I could not get up or I didn't have the strength to get up. I made it a goal to never get into this situation again, and from time to time ill practice being completely out of meds in these situations (the situations that can cause my freezing) with my wife around and try to practice getting out of them, it sounds dumb but it builds up your confidence should the old freezing sessions hit you.
I really hope that makes sense or at least helps to give a bit of light on the situation
Hi Aaron.
When FROZEN, have you gone through the routine of standing erect, because we are often leaning forwards and cannot expect to be able to be able to rectify the situation inn that position. CONSCIOUSLY PULL YOURSELF UPRIGHT!
Then lean to one side, to release the foot on the other side to be able to move,
When your wife is with you and maybe holding loosely onto your arm with her arm interlinked with your arm
Then see how far you are able to CONSCIOUSLY lift your leg out in front of you. You may find it easier to bend the knee first. The do the same on the other leg,
Now, with your wife holding you at the waist or the neck, see how high you are able to swing your arms up in the air
If you are able to do these three things then see how high you can stand up on your toes,
I am sure you were able to do all these things, YES?
If so, then why can't you walk consciously? Why do you FREEZE?
Let us all know?
Thankyou Aaron,
i am lucky as I dont freeze but it seems to hit you bad, especially for so early in the condition and tremor dominant ( I think, so unusual). My friends who freeze festinate before they freeze and are always worried about crossing the road etc. They have trouble with narrow walk ways like you do with bed and dresser. On a thread here many people found it worse the more they worried about it but I’m not sure that they found it connected with off time, It made them feel very unstable and more prone to falling. Its a strange symptom isnt it! Doctors and researchers do not really know the cause but there are a variety of hypotheses. I dont understand your mention of dyskenetic episode though. You are not confusing a dyskenetic episode with freezing are you?
Lol.. this thread again. Everyone, take your meds and exercise as much as you can, as hard as you can and for as long as you can. Everything else is nonsense
If only it was that simple! There is no one size fits all! I don't recommend over exercising and I don't think my advice works for everybody, but if it works for some, then that is better than nobody getting better!
Yes, but not to the same extent. You need to be using the brain more, which fast walking does.
Any evidence of this that isnt your own personal anecdote?
the mid 90's I knew of two cyclists who were convinced that cycling was better than walking, but I have never heard from either of them since then. I assume that is they had tried the fast walking they would have come back to me to tell me what the result was, but I have not heard from either of them. They both took part in the big annual cycle race here in Cape Town, which my brother did.
When I spoke to them, neither of them expressed any intention of trying the fast walking and since I have never seen either of them again I assume they have had to give up the cycling. They never came back to tell me if the fast walking did not work for them. That is, if they even tried it.
In my question I am hinting about cycling, because it appears to go against the grain with cyclists. I have been asked the same questions by swimmers, but I could not give them any knowledgeable answers.
I have met two cyclists who were convinced that cycling was even better than fast walking, but both of them might have since died , without ever trying the fast walking. It is so long ago that I can't remember their names. It was in the middle nineties. I am sure that if they had tried the walking they would have told me, and if their condition had improved they would have also told me.
... I would suggest that cycling on an indoor track or walking on a treadmill set to a meaningful incline, would be the best alternatives, but none of those does what the walking does....
What constitutes a meaningful incline? I walk for two hours at 10% incline.
Walking on a treadmill does nothing for the brain and the brain is where we have the problem. I see people walking on the treadmill while watching TV. That means their brain is not being used at all.Walking flat out, over bumpy ground requires a lot of concentration, which means the brain is being used all the time.
So which walking would do the most for the brain?
I have been listening to a Podcast and the speaker is a neurological professor at Stanford medical (university?), and he was saying that studies have shown that someone with a traumatic brain injury were to train (now no exercise in particular was mentioned) at cardiovascular level called level 2, 3-4 times a week, at a duration of 30 -45 minutes ,improvements were noticeable as the brain at this level produces GDNF. And the brain shows signs or neuroplasticity or self repair.
What is level 2?
It's not that hard, its just training at a level where you can still basically carry on with a full conversation. You don't coast or stop you just keep pedalling or walking continuously for the whole time
Well a simple basic way of figuring this out is a basic equation, 180 minus your age minus a buffer of 10 to 20 Is your heart rate before adrenaline or lactic acid or something like that kicks in. This for me will be 180-38= 142 minus that buffer will put me Into a range of about 120 - 130.
You will need to perform an exercise you can do at a continuous rate for the whole time with our stopping eg : bike riding, fast walking or a staircase machine.
This actually backs up John's claims, you will need to be consistent and regular.
THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH IS FOR THE ONES WHO DOUBT EVERYTHING AND HAVE TRIED NOTHING BUT KNOW EVERYTHING AND WHINGE ABOUT EVERYTHING.... THAT STILL THINK A MAGIC PILL WILL ARRIVE SOON!
I am not a scientist I have only listened to the podcast, and I'm likely not as advanced as you. My beliefs lie In trying to Improve thru neuroplasticity, taking supplements help symptoms but don't exactly take the fight to the brain, exercise will affect the brain, I believe the broccoli seed may help based on the extensive research and yo mumma telling you to eat your greens when you were young.
I don't necessarily agree with John around the statement that fast walking is the ONLY way to get to this level (you review bio mechanics of the human body and there are Def activities that are the same action as fast walking) however it's the consistency and dedication that John has put in and the level of the activities that is important, bike riding can exceed the level 2 very easily but fast walking is well fast walking any faster and it's a jog.
He isn't making this up, the majority of people are to lazy to try, and cutting someone down is simply easier, so what I want to ask is , if your going to challenge John what is your counter argument?
I appreciate your question, but I don't anticipate too many replies, especially from my critics. Many people have hidden agendas, they have reasons for doing what they do and we will never know what those reasons are. I know the medical profession and the pharmaceutical industry obviously don't like me. They are in business to make money, so they are not there primarily to help us, the patients. Get used to it!
I hate to break it to you, but there are a thousand things wrong with what John says about literally everything.
Firstly, he quite clearly should never have even been dx with PD. Bradykinesia is the the only required symptom for a PD dx. Everything else is optional. Resting tremor, rigidity, postural instability and bradykinesia are the four cardinal PD symptoms but only bradykinesia is required for a Dx.
Bradykinesia is mentioned in john's book once. That is it. Once. And it is not listed as a symptom he suffers. He mentions it in the context of introducing PD to the reader, but not as a symptom. He does not mention that he suffers slowness of any kind.
He claims, again in his book, that 25% of PD dx are incorrect. If this is correct, why is he so adamant that he can not possibly be one of the 25%? Another item in his book is a neurologist that tells him this:
“You exhibit no symptoms of Pd, and it is quite obvious that you never had it in the first place. You had what is known as Parkinsonism, which could have been caused by medication or by another chemical source, possibly crop spraying chemicals”.
Of course, John finds a reason to ignore this doctor.
Secondly, if his theories around exercise - that it 'reverses' the disease to the point where you need neither medication nor the services of a neurologist - whether its walking or anything else, were correct and applied to even 1% of the PD population, then there would be thousands of people with PD of more than 20 years walking around without the need for any medication, nor any neurology services, and with 'repaired' dopamine transporters. There is zero evidence of these people. Simply, they do not exist. And the reason they do not exist is that walking, fast or otherwise, does not 'repair' the dopamine transporters in a person with PD. Or at least, if it does (and ive seen no credible evidence that it does), it doesnt do so at a rate fast enough to offset the rate at which PD is killing them.
As someone evidently interested in science and evidence, are you not genuinely concerned at the apparant lack of reproducability/replication of john's apparent success? If the dopamine transporters can be repaired by walking, why is PD even that big of a deal? Surely we would basically be healthy if it were true?
There's loads of mounting evidence that exercise is great for PD, both for symptoms and progression. But its far better to read the trial reports than listen to one man who overpromises and under delivers.
Howdy KevI see what your saying, see what I responded to Hikoi below but my biggest query effectively is has anyone actually done what John suggests in the same manner with let's say a more typical version of PD and not had the improvements that John says are true?
Maybe there has been previously noted attempts before I joined this forum but no one says they have in these threads, that's all mate
Regards
Aaron
I think you'll find that Dap1948 was a true believer in John's 'system', and i suspect she followed it faithfully. You can see that she was a big supporter in this thread here, even hosting John at her home for one of his speaking tours:
healthunlocked.com/cure-par...
She has another thread where she dicsusses her walking in detail here:
healthunlocked.com/cure-par...
Much more recently, her tone around fast walking has shifted considerably (also from her 'walking with john pepper' thread, but 5 years later):
"Just feel grateful, John, that you have done as well as you have. It is very hard to say with confidence that a or b is the absolute reason why you have been so fortunate. I know from reading people's comments here that something which helped one person may not help another. Exercise, and walking specifically, helps people but many have found that even following your instructions, it hasn’t slowed down their PD progression. It is natural to want to share what one thinks has worked for oneself so that you can help cure all, but this 'disease' isn’t that clearcut. I’m sure your work encouraging people to walk has done a lot of good, but 'conspiracy theories'....?"
Now it seems to me that this is a classic case of something getting the initial boost from exercise (especially the case when you were previously sedentiary), and reporting that to both john and the forum. Over time, it appears she has faced the reality of PD as it relates to the efficacy of fast walking. Of course, JP would likely list her as someone that is 'doing very well' but the reality is that long term, she hasnt been able to replicate john's success.
Would you agree?
I am not allowed to post any emails to prove that I have helped a large number of Pd patients because it is seen as self promotion. I am happy to email anybody with this information but I am not allowed to give you my email address.Sorry!
You are saying that you know better than 4 different neurologists, who carried out extensive investigations on my symptoms and my body.
The doctor who said “You exhibit no symptoms of Pd, and it is quite obvious that you never had it in the first place. You had what is known as Parkinsonism, which could have been caused by medication or by another chemical source, possibly crop spraying chemicals”. did not examine me, he bellowed that out to me in a RAGE! I wonder why a neurologist would be in a rage about me claiming to have Pd without taking the trouble to examine me?
If you have read my book, which you claim you have, then you would have seen a number of other people who have emailed me about how they have got a lot better, and in one case, completely overcome his Pd. Do you think I dreamed them up in my head?
I have travelled all over the English-speaking world and every single person with walking problems, even those confined to wheelchairs, have been immediately shown how to walk, as you would have seen in my book. Thousands of people have witnessed these events and the fact that NOBODY WAS UNABLE TO WALK PROPERLY was proof to everybody that they are all capable to taking conscious control of their movements. That means that most of us with movement problems are able to overcome them by learning a new way to control our movements.
Your VENOM is wasted on me!
Do you even know the diagnostic symptoms of PD? If you did you too might wonder if he really has PD. After all his first neuro told him he had essential tremor. I disagree with the claim that the majority of people are too lazy to try. That is opinion not fact.
There is no body on this forum, of the hundreds who have given their e mail addresses and asked for advice, who has ever even hinted they have reversed symptoms. Yes some newly diagnosed have been helped through exercise but in the 20 years he has been spreading the word I think that there is no oher #success story.
But if fast walking lights your fire as THE way who am I to disagree. I and others would not mind if John promoted exercise only but its the stopping meds and only one way. He also creates disharmony as he will not tolerate anyone who disagrees with him and he must have the last word. He changes the subject and gets into conspiracy theories when people continue to disagree.
Unfortunately PD is not going to be cured soon or with a magic pill. Thats my opinion. We may have improved treatments though.
Aaron, you have been given a raw deal getting this so young. I sincerely hope you have a mild type ( younger onset often do). Surprisingly I believe in being optimistic, realistic optimism I call it.
Thank you mate , I'm nor wanting to prove anything but rather discuss, and quire frankly this disease is Def around for the long haul, my thoughts are around personal experience, so apologies if I did missed saying thisI have tried various activities (as with many other people) however I do get relief from this type of activity and the more I do I do see baby steps of improvement but if I stop symptoms return quicker than when they left.
I have always loved weight lifting, but adding this type of exercise certainly changed things, I got be better balance my tremors are nearly nor present at rest, (however if stress or physical exhaustion is present it's back) I get genuine relief from symptoms, so this is where my thoughts originate from.
Just for note I don't walk fast, I have a bad hip so I ride a stationary bike, prolonged waking hurts me.
John is very passionatte but I would like to see on the flip side someone who has done what and how he recommends to do it with the extended period of time and prove him wrong , no one seems to have done this.
I hope this comes across clear Hikoi
👍
I get sick and tired of you claiming I have essential tremor, I was not diagnosed with essential tremor. Why don't you just come clean and tell us all why you are determined to make others believe I don't have Pd?
Dr Norman Doidge, who is a doctor of high repute, took the trouble to come all the way from Canada to investigate my Pd history and validity. He spoke to my GP and two of my neurologists. My 1st neurologist had emigrated to the USA and the 4th one I only consulted many years later. Dr Doidge checked all their records in their offices, taking over a day to do so. I would rather listen to him and believe what he said in his book, "The Brain's Way of Healing".
He had no reason to write what his findings were, if he was not satisfied with what he saw in their records.
Just because you don't want other people to believe me is becoming very annoying and unnecessary. I will no longer bother to respond to any future venom.
“Next under the lens is John Pepper, a South African businessman with Parkinson's disease. He reversed his tremor, rigidity and slowness with exercise and a mental strategy that breaks down walking into its composite parts then rejoins them with conscious effort. Doidge reports Pepper's symptoms in perplexing detail before revealing several doctors claimed he had a less severe variant of Parkinson's, not the real deal.”
theage.com.au/entertainment...
medium.com/myndplan/would-y...
I have read through Robert Shepherd's Criticism of Dr Doidge and have to say that, cpntrary to what Mt Shepherd has to say, I HAVE NEVER CLAIMED THAT I , OR ANYBODY ELSE HAS MADE CLAIMS TO B CURED"! Like you, he seems hell-bent on destroying anybody who BUCKS RGE SYSYEM.
I wonder about the exercising being touted as treatment for PD: Boxing, cycling, treadmill or fast walking. Their one commonality is oxygenating the brain. There's a long video I scanned a day or two ago. It's a different formula for finding maximum heart rate. That's necessary for being able to exercise at 80% of max. For decades I used the formula, 220 minus age.
This is the new formula: 0.64 times age. That number is minused 211. The old formula says my max heart rate is 156. The new formula says my max is 170. Using a treadmill for sprinting at 10% incline my heart reaches 170. So 80% is 136. The old method said 124.
John's method is using your brain to work harder while walking fast. I assume that's dealing with pot holes, cracked asphalt, etc. I spent the winter on my treadmill. Mainly to maintain my cardio ability but also by walking at 3MPH. I think I've got some muscle memory now for transitioning to walking outside. On pot holes and cracked asphalt. 
I think if you could box, flat out for an hour, without stopping, it might very well have the same effect. U ahave tried the treadmill and others gave tried cycling but they do not work.A good friend of mine who has been doing fast walking and has kept his Pd under control. He could not stop his tremor and as he is a optometrist and needs to have a steady hand, he decided to have DBS, which is a reasonable risk, and he now he has got rid of his tremor and he is all systems go. If you would like to speak to jim, I will give you his email address, but not here on HU.
You can choose to disbelieve my claim to have bee diagnosed with Pd by 4 different neurologists, that is your privilege. But if you accuse me of not having been diagnosed with Pd I will take legal action against you. My first book was not incorrect about me use of Sinemet. I took sinemet and symmetrel for the first two years and then I changed to Selegiline. for the next eight years.
In your own words, tell me what I said in my book that was incorrect? WE will take it from there.
Fair enough, John. I beleive you've been dx with PD. I have no doubt about that. Regarding your other question i was referring to this:
"Your memory is either faulty or you did not see that I took Sinemet and Symmetrel for the first 2 years before being taken off those and put onto Eldepryl. In my first book I said that I only took Eldepryl but when Dr Doidge came here and went through my medical records he picked up that I took the other meds to begin with. When I wrote the book, over 10 years later, I had forgotten about the first 2. I rectified that in subsequent books."
healthunlocked.com/cure-par...
I have deleted my comment in case i misunderstood.
Thanks!
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