Does Walking Fast go against the Grain? A... - Cure Parkinson's

Cure Parkinson's

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Does Walking Fast go against the Grain? Are we locked into the belief that we are unable to do it because we think we can't?

JohnPepper
JohnPepper

More evidence of the benefits of high intensity exercise!

news.northwestern.edu/stori...

Nature's way of keeping the body and mind healthy.

125 Replies

I think walking fast for folks with PD is great. People I know with PD do have some difficulty walking and walking fast is even harder. My husband went to LSVT therapy (aka Big and Loud - big steps, loud voice) and learned he could walk fast. Takes a lot of concentration and confidence.

He may not always walk fast but after the LSV therapy he very rarely does a shuffle walk.

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to LindaP50

Well Done. If he would like to learn a whole lot more about how to possibly overcome many other problems then send your email address to johnpepper@telkomsa.net abd I will send you my videos and lots of valuable information. There is no cost involved.

I completely agree high intensity exercise is definitely more beneficial than any drug although I am a cyclist I do have two dogs that I walk 3 times a day and I used to be a very keen fellwalker having done a 140 wainwrights

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to jeffmayer

In order to derive any benefit for Pd your walking should be non-stop and maintained for no longer than one hour, every second day. Walking the dog is stop and go and is more a pleasure than proper exercise.

jeffmayer
jeffmayer in reply to JohnPepper

If you have tried walking two Irish setters you would disagree exercise at any level is beneficial try banging it out on a turbo trainer for an hour at 100 Percent

gginto
gginto in reply to JohnPepper

Absolutely- every time i walk the pooch he interrupts me with a sniff and pee here and there.. so I could never build up to a good unbroken speed..

My husband with PD exercises almost everyday including weights, cycling and stretching, but a session of 'fast' walking really helps (thanks John!) After a short time he is able to step out more, lengthen his stride and get his arm swinging. By the end of the walk his walking is back to being very close to normal. Lockdown has given us lots of opportunities for some great walks.

I am so pleased to hear this. I must warn you that he can do too much, which is worse for him, than too little.

He should only walk every second day, that of course is if he is doing the walking as fast as he possibly can. Then do other exercise on the in-between days.

gginto
gginto in reply to JohnPepper

Hey John- what's to reason for every other day? If I can do almost every day isn't it even better for the pd?

Forced Exercise per Jay Alberts, Cleveland Clinic.

If fast cycling and fast walking outside is so beneficial for PWPs, then wouldn’t fast walking on a treadmill be just as good?

My neurologist told me the body mechanics of walking on the ground versus on a treadmill are quite different and are not equivalent.

Agreed!

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to Ca1208

It is possible that many high exertion exercises will have some effect on Pd.

Pd is a brain problem. I have watched many people watching TV while they are on the treadmill. It is therefore not involving the brain to any extent.

It is unlikely that cycling can be maintained at maximum speed for one hour. Cycling does not involve the brain to much extent.

Fast walking involves the brain and the body to a maximum extent. We have to concentrate on the walking surface, balance , length of step, placing of feet, when landing, pushing forward on the toes of the back foot. It can be maintained at maximum effort for an hour.

For some unknown reason many people have an aversion to walking, don't ask me why.

Walking can be impossible due to weather conditions so, during those times I would suggest that cycling on an indoor track or walking on a treadmill set to a meaningful incline, would be the best alternatives, but none of those does what the walking does.

gginto
gginto in reply to JohnPepper

Thanks..that makes sense..

Oceanwind
Oceanwind in reply to JohnPepper

I’m trying to do fast walking but I can’t because my left foot cramps up and my toes curl after 5-15 minutes. It’s very frustrating.

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to Oceanwind

Have you spoken to your Neuro about this?

Oceanwind
Oceanwind in reply to JohnPepper

Yes. It’s not uncommon apparently. He suggested Botox injections every three months. I tried it, but in the beginning of the three month cycle it made it worse so I was a little doubtful. I’ve tried this over the last two years but now my insurance doesn’t cover it so I have abandoned this. What I do now is I try to get outside for a walk when I’m most optimally medicated. Unfortunately I have Gastroparesis so the absorption of my medicine is not what it should be. Sigh...

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to Oceanwind

You have my sympathies. It would be ridiculous to think that everybody can do what I have done, but even if only 30% of them can thaen that is 30% more than anything else is able to do!

kevowpd
kevowpd in reply to JohnPepper

How many other people have been able to do what you have done?

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to kevowpd

Countless! I have received letters from hundreds of people. I have kept over 20 of them for specific reasons. The others all say they are having success in various ways.

My book contains about 20 specific ones.

Nobody is under any compulsion to tell me how they are doing!

When I demonstrate how people in wheelchairs are immediately able to walk normally and when I show people who are FROZEN, how to immediately move and not need to freeze again, which amounts to hundreds of people, and I can honestly claim that not one single person, who has been able to hold his/her weight on their own legs, has been unable to walk normally.

kevowpd
kevowpd in reply to JohnPepper

Sorry, i must not have been clear.

I wanted to know how many people have been able to replicate your success?

By which i mean, how many people do you know about that have been able to stop taking PD meds entirely and live a relatively normal life 15 to 20 (or more) years post diagnosis?

Juliegrace
Juliegrace in reply to kevowpd

No one that has come forward as far as I am aware.

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to kevowpd

I know of more than one who has claimed to have done what I have, but none of us claim to be cured. I am not allowed to put anything on this site that confirms what I do, as it is seen as self praise.

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to kevowpd

Very few people write and tell me about what they have done but I have heard from two people who claim that they are off the medication, but many more who have reduced their meds down to a very small amount.

One person, who is a retired professional footballer in the USA, is now able to play golf, at professional level, at least 3 times a week.

I wish I could post some of the emails I receive from successful patients.

kevowpd
kevowpd in reply to JohnPepper

"Countless! I have received letters from hundreds of people."

"Very few people write and tell me about what they have done"

🤔

Hi JohnPepper did you have tremors before the fast walking and did the tremors go away after you started fasting walking? If so how long did it take for the tremors to subside?

I do not have a resting tremor. My tremor i[happens when I do anything with my right hand and arm. It therefore is not affected by walking. However. Tremors appear to be less apparent if the body becomes fitter. The fitter you are the less the tremor. AS I do not have a resting tremor I cannot vouch for that.

gginto
gginto in reply to JohnPepper

I find the more I speed walk the tremor is in my left hand somehow is less noticeable- and the less I speed walk the more the tremor starts up again-

I believe you do not have PD.

Resting tremor = PD

Tremor when initiating movement = ET

“I do not have a resting tremor. My tremor happens when I do anything with my right hand.” -John Pepper

Fast walking is good for anyone and everyone regardless of their condition.

hmm777
hmm777 in reply to cclemonade

I don't mean to contradict you, but this is incorrect. It's atypical to have no resting tremor, but it doesn't mean you don't have PD. I know because I have PD but no resting tremor. I'm pretty sure because I was diagnosed separately by two different MDSs 5 years ago, with DaTscan support, and my treating neurologist since then has been the director of the Parkinson's Disease and Movement Disorder Center at KU Med, which is a Parkinson's Foundation Center of Excellence, so it's unlikely that my diagnosis in incorrect. It says right in my records, from both neuros: "Atypical PD Features: Tremor Absent."

cclemonade
cclemonade in reply to hmm777

I did NOT say you have to have a resting tremor to have PD.

You are changing what I said.

But if you have a resting tremor it generally is a sign of PD.

If your tremor is initiated by movement, it is generally a sign of ET.

Simple facts

Resano
Resano in reply to hmm777

Given the broadness of the issue at stake (opening the dopamine faucet and neuroplasticity), « Essential tremor » or not, diagnosis or misdiagnosis, what’s the point ?

Also relevant from Dr Hadlock’s book (« Recovery from Parkinson’s »):

« One issue that does arise fairly often is the diagnosis of essential tremor. Essential tremor is a condition with a tremor that resembles the resting tremor of Parkinson’s but presents with no other Parkinson’s-like symptoms.

A really good neurologist, one who knows that Parkinson’s worsens quickly in response to the mental fear induced by a correct diagnosis, and who knows that the medications have a very limited period of effectiveness, may tell a person who has early stage Parkinson’s disease that he merely has essential tremor.

This is good medicine. There is, or used to be, nothing to be gained by telling a person he had early stage Parkinson’s. And there was much to lose. However, there is now an effective treatment for Parkinson’s (the treatment provided in this book). Hopefully, over the next few decades, doctors will be more judicious in giving a diagnosis of essential tremor if what they are seeing actually is, or even might be, very early stage Parkinson’s. Even though this book shares an effective treatment for Parkinson’s disease, one may as well recover sooner rather than later.

Then again, if a patient is quite elderly and clearly not inclined to do the sometimes challenging work of recovering, it might be better that he be given the diagnosis of essential tremor, if his movement symptoms are slight. He may well live out the rest of his life with no significant motor problems, and he will not suffer the steep decline that typically occurs immediately following a diagnosis of Parkinson’s disease. »

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to Resano

My first three neurologists all conformed I had Pd. It was when I asked the 4th neurologist what the name of my of my tremor and I think he said it was essential tremor, but he did agree that I do have Parkinson's. All the symptoms I have been able to reduce and all the remaining symptoms do not point to having essential tremor.

Hikoi
Hikoi in reply to JohnPepper

That is different from a previous post: You wrote

The neurologist who diagnosed me described my tremor as 'Essential Tremor'. I am not aware that it happens in isolation (from PD). When I gave up drinking tea and coffee my tremors almost disappeared altogether.

I do not have a resting tremor I have the essential tremor. I shake when I am trying to do any fine motor functions like fastening a button. However, when I am under stress, everything is a lot worse

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to Hikoi

You obviously have a record of every post I make. That sounds a bit quirky, but if that what turns you on then maybe you can share with us exactly where I said that?

Hikoi
Hikoi in reply to JohnPepper

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

Have you had any replies from people who have reversed their PD John?

Tell my Neuros!

Godiv
Godiv in reply to cclemonade

Not everyone has a resting tremor with Parkinson’s. There is also a version of very stiff movements and freezing and all that.

Hikoi
Hikoi in reply to Godiv

Thats correct and John has never claimed he has that version.

Of all the "therapies" I've tried, Speed walking helps the most- I get a feeling of well being, anxiety lifts, I feel more positive, tremor subsides, I sleep better, and balance and endurance improves..

I agree with John that the brain is more engaged as we have to swing our arms, keep in regular stride regardless of the terrain, and maintain good balance, all at a quick speed for up to an hour.. It's an all in one body/brain/emotion exercise.

I enjoyed challenging myself all winter to maintain a fast level of walking through the cold, snow and ice.

When this Canadian winter leaves, I'll continue cycling long distance as I've always done- but will make speed walking the primary exercise as I feel it has the biggest impact on pd.

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to gginto

Hi gginto

It is so nice to hear these words from someone who obviously takes life seriously and knows that what you put in is what you get back out.

Fart walking is not a cure for Pd but is a way of staying as healthy as you possibly can, regardless of the fact that you have a debilitating health condition that can be successfully managed,

My medical bills are no different to anybody else's. I have the odd health problem like anybody else, and I don't see myself as as an invalid!

I do not understand why the medical profession has not given this any support whatsoever.

It appears to be for purely financial reasons, which goes against their sworn oath to help their patients overcome their health problems.

They should feel ashamed of themselves.

John wrote, "I do not have a resting tremor. My tremor i[happens when I do anything with my right hand and arm." That kinda suggests Essential Tremor but not PD?

I just had the DAT scan. It should show whether I have PD or ET. I get result in two weeks.

I've been a distance runner since college. I ran my first marathon in 1986. I've lost count of how many races I've done since then. I've burned out several treadmills over the decades.

These days I mostly walk on the treadmill but do regular high intensity sprints also. I use a heart rate monitor. At low intensity my rate is around 90 beats per minute. At high intensity it's 130 BPM.

Yesterday walking in to the clinic it was sunny and I felt warmth on the back of my neck. Maybe that's a sign of Spring. IF so I'll be able to use the road or trails soon.

hmm777
hmm777 in reply to kaypeeoh

Please see my comment above responding to cclemonade regarding PD without a resting tremor.

Hikoi
Hikoi in reply to hmm777

Its good to notice some people calling out misinformation regarding tremor. Add to that that JP had no benefit from levadopa and the only drug he was on for PD was selegiline. There is alot more that points to ET not PD but what surprises me is that the link is not about More evidence of the benefits of high intensity exercise but is a study to determine the benefit of high v moderate intensity exercise

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to Hikoi

My Neuro's records state otherwise.

I stopped because those medications were not making me BETTER! I did not say they did not work.

Hikoi
Hikoi in reply to JohnPepper

Quote: “I took only one med, SElegiline, for ten years. After 10 years, my condition had improved so much, nobody would ever have known that I had Pd. Strange enough, my neurologist, in the ninth year, put me onto sinamet, which did nothing for me. I took myself off it after three months. “

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to Hikoi

Please show me my post where I said I only took Selegiline? I took Sinemet and Symmetrel for two years and because the was no improvement in my condition I asked my neuro to put me on something that can slow down Pd. He put me onto Selegiline , which I took for 8 years.

Hikoi
Hikoi in reply to JohnPepper

This was your original story. You changed it later. Alot you have slightly altered to fit your narrative.

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

gginto
gginto in reply to Hikoi

True , and it will be interesting to hear these results- I don't think many can argue , however, that the benefits of vigorous exercise can help with Parkinson's.

The first thing my Movement Specialist said to me was to Exercise..

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to hmm777

Well done!

The whole purpose of these statements saying I don't have Pd is to stop people following what I do, because : -

I DON'T TAKE MEDICATION!

I DON'T NEED TO CONSULT NEUROLOGISTS!

THAT'S NOT GOOD FOR BUSINESS!

WE CAN'T HAVE THAT - HEAVENS ALIVE, DOESN'T THIS MAN UNDERSTAND?

Really? That is your defense? People like me saying you don't have PD is bc I'm advocating for meds and neurologists and big business. That is ridiculous. That is a pathetic argument. Give it another go....why would people like me say you do not have PD? One, you clearly do not understand what it is like to live with PD. You have repeatedly said on HU that fast walking is the only way to be better. That is completely FALSE and you are spreading misinformation as if you are an authority when you are NOT. That is why I am speaking out against you. You are spreading misinformation that is harmful to people with Parkinson's. Of course fast walking helps. Any physical therapist will agree. But to say it is the only way to improve is just cruel. Is this the legacy you want to leave John Pepper? Intentionally disciminating false information to a vulnerable population?

My father has PD. Despite extreme perseverence he lost his ability to walk independently. His physcial therapists and doctors were working with him to keep his strength up as much as possible with safe and appropriate strenuouse exercises. He insisted on trying to walk independently despite his legs inability to hold him bc he has advanced PARKINSONS (which you do not understand) He fell and his ribs punctured his lungs. He is far worse off now than if he had heeded the advise of walking with assistance and doing the strenuous exercises as advised by physical therapy and occupational therapy.

You don't need to take medication not because you are better than us in any way but bc you are fortunate. You don't need to consult neurologists not bc you have some special magic about you but because you are blessed to not need a neurologist.

Your legacy will be that you have spread false information to thousands of people with a debilitating disease claiming you have it yourself when you clearly do not.

(For anyone intent on defending fast walking; of course fast walking improves PD symptoms. But, John Pepper has not parted the red sea. He takes somehting that obviously helps and claims it is the only thing that helps PD. He is a fake so wrapped up in his narrative that even he believes it.)

Wow! Such venom! Such hatred!

I understand your your revulsion and where you are coming from. I understand your hurt and I am sorry you feel that way about me.

There are many different forms of Pd. No two patients are the same.

How can you say I don't have Pd. and that I am a fake? At the age of 58 I was no longer able to work or function properly. My neurologist put me onto Pd medication, which I expected to make me feel better, but it didn't. I continued to get worse.

My late wife persuaded me to take part in a walking program that is aptly named, "RUN?WALK for LIFE". That turned my life around. That and a Pd medication called an MAO-b inhibitor, which is still the only Pd medication that I know of that can slow the progression of Pd.

In addition to the walking and the Medication, I had to get rid of all the stress in my life, which meant giving up my job, my business that took me so many years to build up, and to willingly let it go, for the sake of the staff and all those people who helped the company grow. On top of those changes I learned how to overcome many of my movement problems by using my conscious brain to take control of my walking , writing and shaking.

I have been able to help hundreds of other Pd patients, all over the English-speaking world to walk properly and take back their lives.

The medical profession did not like what I was doing and removed me from my position as Chairman of our National Pd Association, which I had held for over 5 years. They did, what you are doing, saying that I don't have Pd, although 4 different neurologists, WHO HAVE EXAMINED ME are in no doubt that I DO HAVE PD!

Not one of those neurologists who got me removed from out National Association, have allowed me to show any of their Pd patients how to overcome their FREEZING and many of the other walking problems.

Why would any doctor NOT WANT THEIR PATIENTS TO GET BETTER? WHY WOULD THEY NOT WANT THEN TO OVERCOME MANY OF THEIR PROBLEMS?

The only answer I can come up with is that I present a danger to them and the pharmaceutical industry, who stand to lose a fortune if other Pd patients mangae ot do what I have done!

I have helped hundreds of people, but whather they have continued to do what I have taught them, which I know mamny of them have not, but many others have, it is everybody's choice as to what they are prepared to do to help themselves!

It is not easy doing the walking or to try to be positive, but it IS POSSIBLE!

WE are all DIFFERENT!

AaronS
AaronS in reply to cclemonade

Cc I see your point, however just focusing on the act of fast walking is not where JP is making.

It's the fact that somehow he has managed to trigger the brain to kick start more dopamine production. It's not a false claim, I have had twice now heavy gym sessions where I kinda nearly passed out....almost but my symptoms left completely for about 5 minutes both times.

No I have not replicated this for a while now and no studies can back this up, nor would I let anyone near me to try....because people are dumb.

However if you can get to this level and trick the brain to start up again then your on a win.

Another example, I stated taking creatine after the gym again, apparently studies say it doesn't work on PD symptoms, I personally call shit on that as when it's in my system and not on meds I'm so different....the stuff works for me.

But if you replicated that it may not have the same effect....however did I just lie to you and make that up? Even tho some idiot in a white lab coat says it doesn't do anything

rescuema
rescuema in reply to AaronS

Another reason why outdoor fast walking is superior to indoor exercises - sun exposure. Huge!

Some people will spend $$$ to wear head gadgets for replacement light exposure therapy.

Many notice benefits such as in the recent post below -

healthunlocked.com/cure-par...

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to rescuema

We are all different! I don't find WALKING to be degrading or 'Not Done', I find it absolutely necessary and wonder why we would choose to walk indoors when outdoors is so much nicer. BUT! weather is always an issue, so we have to make other plans.

rescuema
rescuema in reply to JohnPepper

People forget that there are many different subtypes in PD with distinctively different symptoms. The naysayers may argue with you endlessly but you’ve been preaching what’s free and beneficial for all of us for many decades and the science is only slowly catching up to explain why. You’re helping many people in my opinion who see you as a hopeful example to follow so you keep going!

kevowpd
kevowpd in reply to rescuema

What's good for the goose should be good for the gander. If there are many subtypes, perhaps he could recognise that and cease telling people that fast-walking is the 'only way' to 'reverse' PD symptoms, which he seemingly does so solely on the basis that it is what worked for him, despite being told by others (incl in this very thread) that there are other forms of exercise that are effective (for them).

It is JohnPepper that claims his way is the 'only' way, not anyone else. Not sure how you have missed that.

rescuema
rescuema in reply to kevowpd

I know he had repeatedly qualified it saying that in his opinion fast walking outdoors is the “best” way, with his own experience of indoor gym workouts worsening his symptoms. It is up to individuals to decide what to take in for positive benefits and we’re all adults here. No point in arguing endlessly under different accounts don’t you think?

kevowpd
kevowpd in reply to rescuema

He scarcely offers that qualification. In this very thread he uses 'only' repeatedly. I think you are being very generous, and that if someone talked about a particular vitamin (or pretty much anything else) in the same fashion that he talks about other exercise (I.e dismissing it on the basis that it didnt work for them), you wouldn't be nearly as forgiving. I think you know it, too.

rescuema
rescuema in reply to kevowpd

His responses does get scattered and incomplete and may come across emotional but he is 86 so give him some break. I could only wish I’ll be nearly as physically active at his age. He has been berated repeatedly and got piled on for promoting beneficial free outdoor exercise that requires no special equipment nor membership. Thinking positively is beneficial for everyone!

Kwinholt
Kwinholt in reply to kaypeeoh

Hi there, I too am a distant ultra runner and believe any exercise is good for PWP but I have a real problem with certain suggestions and comments made by others. “The more fit you are the less tremor you will have”? WTH! Ok so is he saying I’m not fit ? I do have some tremors. I think if we can keep moving no matter what it may be is great for the body and mind of all of us. Karen

kaypeeoh
kaypeeoh in reply to Kwinholt

I'm fitter than many of the people I know. Maybe exercise is why I don't have bradykinesia or dyskinesia but it's a stretch to say exercise affects tremor.

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to kaypeeoh

I manage to consciously control my tremor, when I am not too tired and when I am not stressed, in other words, when I am not on HU facing unfounded criticism!

gginto
gginto in reply to kaypeeoh

I don't know of any study/results that have shown that tremor is reduced because of exercise.. but would be good to know for sure...

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to Kwinholt

It is my contention that Fast Walking produces GDNF in the area of the brain affected by Pd! That, as its name tellss us that it repairs or replaces damaged brain cells. Those brain cells control the manufacture of Dopamine, the shortage of which is the cause of Pd.

It stands to reason, that if I am correct and my brain now produces more dopamine then my symptoms will be less.

To prove this, I have not ben able to do much fast walking over the past 30m months, so my brain is producing less dopamine and my symptoms are currently a lot worse.

At the age of 86, I am unable to walk as fast as I used to or for as much time as I need to.

I am asking people to try doing the fast walking, not because it gives me added income, but because IT WORKS!

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to Kwinholt

Thanks for the positive support! Please stay positive and make the most of what we have!

gginto
gginto in reply to kaypeeoh

Just curious- how are your knees doing?

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to gginto

Not well. But at 86, what do I expect? most of my knee problems are caused by walking on the outside of my right foot and that makes my right knee incredibly sore. I have to try to remember to place my weight on the inside of the foot, and when I do, the pain goes away.

I don't see your point?

kaypeeoh
kaypeeoh in reply to JohnPepper

Perhaps the idea that if a little bit of exercise is good then A LOT of exercise should be better. But doing A LOT doesn't give the body time to recover and heal. Just a guess.

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to kaypeeoh

Too much exercise can do more harm than good. The best is to start slowly and build up the take and the effort slowly until you are exercising for an hour. The next day, don't exercise, just relax and walk around casually. Be patient and get stronger, SLOWLY!

Your body needs time to recover from strenuous exercise!

Awesome, and yes you should always have rest days. I’m so happy for what ever works for someone . I take pride in being a person that takes care of herself (exercise, eat right , don’t drink , try to get good sleep) . That being said , taking care of myself didn’t stop me from getting cancer and parkinsons. I still continue to take care of myself and hasn’t stopped the PD from progressing. I’m all for whatever works because we are all different and I would never tell someone what they are doing is wrong if it’s working for them . I have a problem with things being said like “cure”, “stops progression”, or telling others what they are doing isn’t right. Let’s face it , this disease is awful and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone . We all need to support each other not put each other down. Take care. Karen

cclemonade
cclemonade in reply to Kwinholt

The basis for my concern is that if PWP like my father were to take John Pepper, seriously thinking that “fast walking” is the “only way” they would either be very discouraged and feel hopeless or push themselves beyond what is safe for them as my father did. Prior to his fall, my Dad was at home with a caregiver. Now, bc of his fall, my poor Dad needs to be in a nursing home bc he needs a hoyer lift to move him. And I have a debilitating foot problem making me incapable of consistent fast walking. If I were to take John Pepper literally as some do, thinking fast walking is the only way, I would feel doomed.

I do not want to be cruel to a delusional man but his advise which he states as fact, I fear can really cause harm to many PWP.

Kwinholt
Kwinholt in reply to cclemonade

Cc, I totally agree. I have a problem with the words “cure”, “stop progression being used as well. Whatever helps someone have a good day is a plus in my book but one size doesn’t fit all. I’m sorry to hear your dad is having bad days. You have a different perspective then some of us, watching your father struggle , now yourself being diagnosed with PD . I am so sorry you have this fight too. Just know that people are here for you and support you. ❤️ Karen

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to Kwinholt

I hope you don't think I have ever claimed to be cured?

I do claim to have reversed many of my symptoms, but they return, when I am unable to walk because of other health problems.

Do you not believe my claim to have reversed my symptoms?

Hikoi
Hikoi in reply to cclemonade

You are wise to be concerned, people have left this forum because they cannot tolerate the fast walking mantra with no basis in science. Of course walking makes you feel better, exercise does. Though the quote fromJP (I have now deleted) claims that 90 minute gym exercise did not help in fact he writes it made it worse

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to Hikoi

RUN/WALK for LIFE has been scientifically designed and tested, for people in general, not for Pd patients specifically. You don't count me as having reversed many of my symptoms, mainly, but not entirely, due to the walking.

My late wife persuaded me to join them. She had lost 14Kgs in weight and come off her Blood Pressure and antidepressant pills, after having taken them for many years.

Many other people in our group overcame other health problems that the medical profession had failed to do!

Have you tried to do it? If not, was it because you are incapable of walking or did you just decide , in your wisdom, that It is no good?

You are missing the point, the same point I have made repeatedly. I will give this another try.

I am not debating whether fast walking works or not. As I have repeatedly stated in previous attempts to communicate with you, fast walking can help with Parkinson’s. That is established and obvious. Every physical therapist would agree.

The whole point I have been repeatedly trying to get through is this:

TO TELL PEOPLE WITH PARKINSON’S THAT FAST WALKING IS THE “ONLY WAY” AS YOU RELENTLESSLY DO IS NOT ONLY FALSE BUT CRUEL.

FAST WALKING IS NOT THE ONLY WAY TO IMPROVE AND FIGHT BACK AGAINST PD. THAT IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE.

YOU ARE INTENTIONALLY SPREADING MISINFORMATION.

It is my belief you are doing this bc you relish the adoration and this is keeping you from letting go of spreading this false information.

If you were to state that “ fast walking is one means by which one can fight back against PD and that in your experience it has removed your symptoms and helped many other people.,” But you don’t do that, you tell innocent people that it is the only way which is intentionally and knowingly spreading false information.

I have a screen shot of you stating, “PD will never have a cure.” And then you went on to say that fast walking is the only way to essentially cure.

I am sorry that I lack the ability to NOT MISLEAD PEOPLE! I have no intentions of misleading them.

I thought I was telling them the following:

1. Fast walking is the only way that I know of that can reverse the symptoms of Pd, to a point where they no longer need Pd medication. They do not always get to the point where they can stop all medication but they can reduce it and avoid many of the side effects, which are sometimes worse than the symptoms.

2, Pd medication only hides some of the symptoms, temporarily. That is not permanent! That also gets less and less, meaning the patient has to take more and more until it no longer works at all.

3. If you know of any other treatment that does what fast walking does, then please tell us about it.

4. Maybe I am not telling everybody STRONGLY enough that it does not work form everybody! Some patients are too far down the track to be able to reverse their symptoms. Others have got other health problems that prevent them from doing fast walking. I have merely assumed that that was obvious, but I have not been putting this over very strongly. I APPOLOGIZE FOR NOT HAVING DONE THIS.

5. PLEASE TELL US ALL WHAT ELSE YOU KNOW THAT ACTUALLY REVERSES PD SYMPTOMS FOR MORE THAN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME!

6. I am not selling a product!

7. I don't get paid by anybody for trying to help them!

8. Adulation is in the minds of people and does not bring any physical benefit to the recipient of that adulation. I can live without it. I don't look for it. ALL I WANT IS FOR LOTS OF OTHER PD PATIENTS TO REVERSE THEIR SYMPTOMS!

9. I also would like the medical profession to take what I am doing, seriously. They might tell their patients to EXERCISE! Not a single NEUROLOGIST has ever witnessed one of their wheelchair-bound patients being shown how to walk properly.

10. Neurologists blatantly got me removed from the position of running out National Pd Association.

11. Whilst on every tour, I asked for the names of each National Parkinson's Association for a list of their members, but was given the identical response, word for word, from each of them., for not wanting to do so. What I do cannot be tested in a DOUBLE BLIND STUDY! How can patients not know they are walking? In a double blind study they need half the participants to do the walking and the other half to not know they are doing the walking! How can anybody do that?

12. I apologize to everybody I may have misled. That has not been my objective.

13. I have a feeling that scientists have NEVER BEEN LOOKING FOR A CURE FOR PD!

14. The ONLY ILLNESSES THAT SCIENTISTS ATTEMPT TO CURE ARE ILLNESSESES THAT KILL US!

15. The manufacturers of drugs cannot make much money selling a cure only ONCE. They make a great deal of money TREATING ILLNESSES FOR YEARS AND YEARS BEFORE THEY DIE!!! That is good business and scientists and drug manufacturers are in business to make MONEY! WE have to acceot that hard fact of life. This COVID-19 has only been around a little more than a year and they have alre ady found many different VACCINES! But for the common cold, they say they have been looking for a cure for nearly 200 years! Just think how much money ism made from treating the common cold!!!

16, We are all grownups. We have to face the facts of life! There is NEVER GOING TO BE A CURE FOR PD!

SORRY EVERYBODY!

kevowpd
kevowpd in reply to JohnPepper

" Fast walking is the only way that I know of that can reverse the symptoms of Pd, to a point where they no longer need Pd medication. They do not always get to the point where they can stop all medication but they can reduce it and avoid many of the side effects, which are sometimes worse than the symptoms."

This is intentionally misleading people. By saying "They do not always get to the point where they can stop all medication" you are implying that a fair portion (or even some) of them do get to that point, which is evidently false, or at least something for which you have zero evidence.

Hikoi
Hikoi in reply to JohnPepper

I exercise bbut not fast wallking because I don’t take your advice seriously. I think it is unfounded, unscientific, wishful thinking. I am just as certain you do not have PD as I am certain I do. I know you will now attack my character and tell me I am working for the doctors or drug companies.

You write above

“Why would any doctor NOT WANT THEIR PATIENTS TO GET BETTER? WHY WOULD THEY NOT WANT THEN TO OVERCOME MANY OF THEIR PROBLEMS?The only answer I can come up with is that I present a danger to them and the pharmaceutical industry, who stand to lose a fortune if other Pd patients manage to do what I have done!”

Don’t forget what you wrote some time ago and I quote:

Dr Doidge spoke to me last week and told me in no uncertain terms to STOP THINKING THAT NEUROLOGISTS EVERYWHERE ARE DOING EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO STOP MY STORY FROM BEING BELIEVED OUT THERE. I feel sure that he knows that certain neurologists might feel insecure with this threat to their earnings……. but I am also sure in my own mind that what he has said is true and I will no longer propagate that idea

I apologize for having said this on many occasions and will see that I never do it again, believing that it is NOT TRUE.

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to Hikoi

You are entitled to believe or disbelieve whatever you choose. The number of patients who have have has wonderful results from taking up the fast walking is testament enough for me.

It costs nothing to do and the exercise can only make us fitter and more able to fight the symptoms. That is common sense.

There are no controlled studies on fast walking because :-

1. Who would pay for them?

2. How can a person take part in a walking study and not know he is doing it?

You appear to ignore the number of Patients who have been able to immediately walk, after being shown how to do it. How could I have found this out if I did not have the same problem and overcome it myself in the first place?

Can you name anything else that has reversed the symptoms of Pd? I can't!

That is why I say it is the only way. That does not mean that everybody can do it!

It stands to reason that if a patient is unable to walk, for whatever reason, it is not going to do anything for him/her.

Do you think I should therefore not tell anybody about it? I don't make a cent telling people about it, My guess is that only a third of Pd patients could possibly benefit from it, but that is still a lot of people.

kevowpd
kevowpd in reply to JohnPepper

Rock Steady boxing, cycling and treadmill running are well documented as ameliorating PD symptoms.

A third??? You evidently can't point to one person that has replicated your result so a third sounds extremely high.

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to kevowpd

A third of 10 million is quite a lot of people. A third of the people I have personally helped is also a lot of people, but 30% is better than nothing! I can point o many people but I am not allowed to post those responses here!

kevowpd
kevowpd in reply to JohnPepper

You can't even point to one person that has replicated your result. You have just pulled one-third from thin air. If your 'system' worked for even a tiny fraction of the PD population, there would be tens of thousands of PWP walking around 30 years post dx completely med-free. And quite simply, there are not. You are very clearly only interested in self-promotion.

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to kevowpd

Everywhere I have been in England, Australia, New Zealand, USA, Canada , where I gave multiple talks and demonstrations and several countries in which I only gave a couple of demonstrations, were all highly successful.

I have yet to meet ANYBODY WITH WALKING PROBLEMS, even those in WHEELCHAIRS, who were not immediately able to walk NORMALLY, after only a few minutes of being shown how. That is 100% successful, because I physically showed them how to do it.

I also successfully showed everybody how to drink without spilling anything., and how to write legibly.

If you are a genuine Pd patient with a walking problem and you want to know how to do these things then email me at johnpepper@telkomsa.net and give me your email address and I will send you full details of how to do these things. I do not charge anything for doing this. I never charged anybody overseas for any of the demonstrations and talks. I believe that some of them made a donation to the organizers. I asked for nothing, but did accept money towards the airfares.

kaypeeoh
kaypeeoh in reply to JohnPepper

"...I also successfully showed everybody how to drink without spilling anything., and how to write legibly.

If you are a genuine Pd patient with a walking problem and you want to know how to do these things then email me at johnpepper@telkomsa.net and give me your email address and I will send you full details of how to do these things..."

Okay John, I drink a lot of coffee using my tremoring left hand and don't spill. But my handwriting is horrible. But it always has been. In med school 40 years ago an instructor looking over my shoulder complained about that Now I use my right hand to write notes. If there's a trick it's to write VERY slowly. Like a child just learning to write. Also helps to put on magnifying lenses. That sort of fits into the idea of "going big" which movement disorder specialists were pushing.

kevinoneall@gmail.com

Above, you just claimed that people in wheel chairs, once being shown by you how to walk, 100% of the time could walk normally.

Can you please confirm that? That as you stated above, 100% of the time, once you “physically showed them how to do it” “even those in wheelchairs were able to walk normally.”

That is what you stated above and I want to confirm that is what you meant.

Yes! I have shown hundreds of people how to walk of whom at least 20 were in wheelchairs. All I had to do was show them how to consciously control their movements.

The conscious brain is capable of controlling all of our movements, which our subconscious brain no longer is able to do.

It takes a while to get used to using the conscious brain, but I have been doing it now for nearly 30 years.

If you contact me at johnpepper@telkomsa.net I will send you my videos which show me teaching people how to walk. I don't charge for doing this.

Hikoi
Hikoi in reply to kevowpd

Direct quote from HU by J Pepper

“I am the only Pd patient, that I know of, who has managed to reverse many of his/her movement symptoms. I am also the only patient, that I know of, who has not had to take any Pd medication anymore. For the past 11 years I have not needed to take any medication for my Pd. I had been taking Eldepryl for over 10 years, up to 2002. Other than taking that medication, I gave up my highly stressful job, immediately after diagnosis”

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to kevowpd

If I were allowed to put all the emails I receive from people who are doing these things they could answer questions. You obviously find it hard to believe. Somewhere it has been said, Öh! Ye of little faith". I can't think where I saw that!

kevowpd
kevowpd in reply to JohnPepper

I wonder why not a single one of these success stories has voluntarily posted about it on this forum...or any other PD forum.

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to kevowpd

I could write to several of them and ask them to do that. Why not?

Juliegrace
Juliegrace in reply to kevowpd

We’ve been down this road before where he offers to contact his “success” stories but never does.

I have never tried to specifically contact any of the Pd patients who are doing well. But. today I have done just that to a few of them, so let us see how many respond!

lingfield222
lingfield222 in reply to kevowpd

I did several posts above.

Hikoi
Hikoi in reply to Kwinholt

Oh dear you didnt get it at all. I have removed the post. I will have to be much more direct which will bring out JP fighting.

Kwinholt
Kwinholt in reply to Hikoi

Hikoi, I’m unclear on what you think I didn’t get , I understood exactly what you were saying. I’m sorry you felt you needed to remove your post but no worries. K

Hikoi
Hikoi in reply to Kwinholt

Good, you realised it was a quote from JP claiming his fast walking regime reverses PD but 90 mins at the gym makes PD worse.

Yes I know everyone is different but not that different.

Kwinholt
Kwinholt in reply to Hikoi

Hikoi, I gotcha you. 😊 K

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to Hikoi

Sorry to but in here. Hikoi, you are not getting the point. Hard exercise in the gym is not necessarily good for us, in fact it can be counter productive.

I only stress my own experience, and that of many others who have found fast walking to be very successful. Each to his/her own!

Hikoi
Hikoi in reply to JohnPepper

Where is the Proof? You are wrong about hard exercise.

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to Kwinholt

Wise words!

I think you make a good point but my issue is when you start to freeze and your whole body is shaking it’s kind a hard to move don’t you think? LOL

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to MissRita

Yes! But do yourself a favour. When you freeze, just relax and consciously put all your weight on one of your feet, because you are trying to move your feet while you are standing on them both. That is impossible!

If you get somebody to help you, when you freeze and stand still, try to stand erect and consciously see how high you can raise each leg up in front of you. Then see how high you can swing your arms, Then see if you can stand up on your toes.

You will find that you can do all those things, so why can't you walk?

The answer is that the subconscious brain is no longer able to control your walking and you FREEZE!

You now have to consciously place all your weight on one leg, then lift the other leg up and move forward and plant the heel of the foot firmly on the ground in front of you, them lift the back foot off the ground and place the heel firmly on the ground in front of you.

You are now walking CONSIOUSLY!

You will never be able to walk again without having to consciously control all your movements. TOUGH! You will never be the same again! But who would know?

You can consciously bring food to your mouth without spilling it, if you hold the glass or the fork differently. you can consciously write properly, if you do it differently (BLOCK LETTERS).

Give it a try, you will be very surprised!

MissRita
MissRita in reply to JohnPepper

I live in Central new York State.Thank you so much and I definitely will do it!

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to MissRita

Where do you live? If you contact me at johnpepper@telkomsa,net I will tell you how to overcome freezing, it is very simple. Everybody I have shown how to do it, was able to do so, immediately. It sounds like rubbish but it is 100% true!

MissRita
MissRita in reply to JohnPepper

I live in Central new York State.

MissRita
MissRita in reply to JohnPepper

I sent you an email thanks.

AaronS
AaronS in reply to MissRita

JP is right with freezing here, this process works for me

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to AaronS

Thanks Aaron. You are not helping me as much as you are helping others to take charge of their lives and stop relying on medication!

Hikoi
Hikoi in reply to AaronS

Have you had freezing very long? I see you have been diagnosed three years. I’m not clear what your process is Aaron, can you explain about your freezing and what works for you?

AaronS
AaronS in reply to Hikoi

Sure thing Hikoi 😀, so as your well aware the freezing can happen predominantly in off times, and sometimes i need to get my wife to assist me, however ill discuss the times that I need to deal with when assistance is not available. I have been stuck on the ground on my belly, I have been stuck trying to get off the toilet and my biggest foe sometimes...getting stuck between the bed and dresser table.

I hope this makes sense, I don't mean to sound pretentious but I'm still relatively muscular with a bigger amount of mass in my shoulders, this can either work for me or against me.

Now depending on the situation that im in ill try to consciously understand what I need to do to get out of the freezing episode, ill see how my weight is proportioned which leg im leaning on more, if I can use my body weight to get a rock on, what is around me to lean on, can I physically shift one of my legs to get into a better position, can I swing my left arm to get movement to try to break the dyskinetic episode.

The sad thing is your body would do this in a split second without PD, but now if we allow our body to just do its thing we get the symptoms of PD obviously.

So the concious telling of your body what to do thru slowly doing it with your body or getting a rock on of shuffling weight or moving your body parts to assist is what's meant by concious thinking.

I once spent 20 minutes not being able to get off the floor laying on my belly because my brain was telling me I could not get up or I didn't have the strength to get up. I made it a goal to never get into this situation again, and from time to time ill practice being completely out of meds in these situations (the situations that can cause my freezing) with my wife around and try to practice getting out of them, it sounds dumb but it builds up your confidence should the old freezing sessions hit you.

I really hope that makes sense or at least helps to give a bit of light on the situation

JohnPepper
JohnPepper in reply to AaronS

Hi Aaron.

When FROZEN, have you gone through the routine of standing erect, because we are often leaning forwards and cannot expect to be able to be able to rectify the situation inn that position. CONSCIOUSLY PULL YOURSELF UPRIGHT!

Then lean to one side, to release the foot on the other side to be able to move,

When your wife is with you and maybe holding loosely onto your arm with her arm interlinked with your arm

Then see how far you are able to CONSCIOUSLY lift your leg out in front of you. You may find it easier to bend the knee first. The do the same on the other leg,

Now, with your wife holding you at the waist or the neck, see how high you are able to swing your arms up in the air

If you are able to do these three things then see how high you can stand up on your toes,

I am sure you were able to do all these things, YES?

If so, then why can't you walk consciously? Why do you FREEZE?

Let us all know?

Hikoi
Hikoi in reply to AaronS

Thankyou Aaron,

i am lucky as I dont freeze but it seems to hit you bad, especially for so early in the condition and tremor dominant ( I think, so unusual). My friends who freeze festinate before they freeze and are always worried about crossing the road etc. They have trouble with narrow walk ways like you do with bed and dresser. On a thread here many people found it worse the more they worried about it but I’m not sure that they found it connected with off time, It made them feel very unstable and more prone to falling. Its a strange symptom isnt it! Doctors and researchers do not really know the cause but there are a variety of hypotheses. I dont understand your mention of dyskenetic episode though. You are not confusing a dyskenetic episode with freezing are you?

Lol.. this thread again. Everyone, take your meds and exercise as much as you can, as hard as you can and for as long as you can. Everything else is nonsense

If only it was that simple! There is no one size fits all! I don't recommend over exercising and I don't think my advice works for everybody, but if it works for some, then that is better than nobody getting better!

Does bicycling help?

Yes. Definitely.

Yes, but not to the same extent. You need to be using the brain more, which fast walking does.

kevowpd
kevowpd in reply to JohnPepper

Any evidence of this that isnt your own personal anecdote?

the mid 90's I knew of two cyclists who were convinced that cycling was better than walking, but I have never heard from either of them since then. I assume that is they had tried the fast walking they would have come back to me to tell me what the result was, but I have not heard from either of them. They both took part in the big annual cycle race here in Cape Town, which my brother did.

When I spoke to them, neither of them expressed any intention of trying the fast walking and since I have never seen either of them again I assume they have had to give up the cycling. They never came back to tell me if the fast walking did not work for them. That is, if they even tried it.

In my question I am hinting about cycling, because it appears to go against the grain with cyclists. I have been asked the same questions by swimmers, but I could not give them any knowledgeable answers.

I have met two cyclists who were convinced that cycling was even better than fast walking, but both of them might have since died , without ever trying the fast walking. It is so long ago that I can't remember their names. It was in the middle nineties. I am sure that if they had tried the walking they would have told me, and if their condition had improved they would have also told me.

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