Dexa scores.

[Rovelli]

Hello everyone. I'm wondering if anyone has improved their score from about the - 2.5 level, and how did you do it please.

[MyStar86]

do you mean -2.5? Are you on any osteoporosis medication? I tried diet and supplements for years but after breaking all my ribs I decided to go on Zoledronic acid which has improved my spinal t-scores when nothing else did and it also speeded up my ribs healing as it took over 2 years!!!

[Rovelli in reply to MyStar86]

Thank you. Yes, I meant -2.5.I feel resistant to taking biphosphonates due to a fear of side effects. A bit torn about what to do.

[Met00 in reply to Rovelli]

Medication shouldn't be recommended on the basis of t-scores alone. -2.5 is only just on the cusp of osteoporosis, so it depends what other risk factors you have (eg certain medications, absorption issues, family history, having had a fragility fracture). You should have a FRAX score (eg 10% risk of fracture in the next 10 years) which should form the basis of any treatment recommendations.

[Rovelli in reply to Met00]

Thank you that's really helpful. A lot of health problems have sprung up all at once and I feel that I'm being steam rollered into taking a barrow load of serious drugs.

[MyStar86 in reply to Met00]

I agree my t-scores were at the -3.3 level before I started the infusions and i still only agreed to it after so many breaks I wouldn’t of taken the drugs otherwise. Do they know the cause of your osteoporosis? If that can be treated then it could reverse your osteoporosis without needed the osteoporosis medication as well….

[Rovelli in reply to MyStar86]

My guess would be years of a restricted diet and over-exercising due to autism and anorexia. I'm finally getting past it, but it's hard to eat enough now with the acid reflux.

[MyStar86 in reply to Rovelli]

have you seen a gastro or your gp as there are lots of medication for acid reflux like omeprazol etc. i have bile reflux from having my gallbladder out years ago so i Understand and I’m very underweight due to gastro bowel issues and lots of surgeries so yes that will impact your bones but a gastro could help on the reflux but even your gp could help with that my mum gets it really bad but doesn’t have it at all on omeprazol xx big hugs and keep strong we are here for you

[Rovelli in reply to MyStar86]

Thank you! I've just started Famotidine. If it doesn't help I might ask for the one similar to omeprazole. I took that for one month last summer but it gave me food allergy headaches. I have been very resistant to having too many drugs as they all have side effects and all impact each other, but it might be time now to accept one or two.

[MyStar86 in reply to Rovelli]

what other medications are you on if you don’t mind me asking? I’m the same with meds but have to take some for my health otherwise I can’t even get out of bed and Im only 36 but I won’t bore you with my story. However there are lots of options for reflux even over the counter stuff so that way you won’t feel as bad like milk of magnesia that’s always a safe option for me. I think a gastro would be a good idea and a dietitian maybe I’ve had to see one due to my malabsorption through bowel issues and they can be helpful I know you said about your previous history so that might make you nervous but they only advise you don’t have to do what they say it’s just some helpful bone building advice with nutrition. Try gentle things like porridge maybe and good wholemeal fibre I find that doesn’t upset me but we are all different I’m just trying to throw ideas out there feel free to ignore anything I say 😊 x

[Rovelli in reply to MyStar86]

actually the famotidine is the only one!! I don't even take anything for my heart leak. I had a bad experience after being left on a migraine drug for too long and decided to refuse everything, but that was probably a bit childish. I'm much older than I was now, so it's about how I spend my remaining years.

[MyStar86 in reply to Rovelli]

it’s all personal but I would chose to live with whatever makes me feel better and if meds help then they are not the bad guys. If that makes sense I’ve had bad experiences too I was given serotonin poisoning so now I struggle to take any meds so I do understand but if something helps you then it’s worth a try especially if you are worried about your bones. Trust me the pain from breaking all my ribs still haunts me that’s why I take the infusions because everything has side effects and it turned out for me not taking meds didn’t help as my bones massively deteriorated and I broke all my ribs falling out of bed in hospital and at 36 that isn’t fun I couldn’t leave the house for 8 months. I wouldn’t necessarily take the osteoporosis meds but maybe the ones for your reflux so you can have a better diet to help aid your health and bones in the future. Taking calcium and vitamin d is always a good option and that’s not a nasty med it might just save you more pain in the future ⭐️. Only trying to help but make your own choices and take care

[99real in reply to MyStar86]

Be careful with omeprazole and other proton pump inhibitors if you have acid reflux. PPIs can cause fractures. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/310...

[MyStar86 in reply to 99real]

that’s true but also not eating will make the osteoporosis a lot worse so I was trying to find something to help her with the acid reflux because if she doesn’t eat due to it that will also make the osteoporosis worse. Discuss with the gp as there are other options but she will need to take something to help with the acid reflux.

[Orange89 in reply to MyStar86]

my score is -3.3 in spine and I have been advised daily infusions. If I may ask, how has your progress been?

[Rovelli in reply to Orange89]

Hello! I only got my scan result a few days ago. I am due to see my gp in about 10 days. I have decided to decline the biphosphonates, and see how I get on for the next 2 years. I just intend to stop the high impact exercises that I had been doing and try some gentler ones, and try to improve my diet. My hip score had actually improved on 2 years ago, only the spine is a cause of concern, so I'm taking a gamble. 🌻

[Orange89 in reply to Rovelli]

Thanks a lot! Best wishes to you in your journey to recovery! Regards

[MyStar86 in reply to Orange89]

my spine after 1 year on the infusion went down to -2.4 so my spine is now osteopenia which is why I continued the infusions for another year. My hips are still -3.3 and I have previously broken the neck of the femur so they are weaker anyway but it was the spine I was most worried about. The nhs only fund a dexa every 2 years so I am going to get one done privately at the end of this year before I decide whether to have the 3rd infusion as the side effects haven’t been easy so it’s a battle to know what’s for the best but after the ribs I was so scared I couldn’t live with that happening again. Everyone has different experiences with the infusions so it’s hard to know what’s for the best but for me I decided to do it and once it’s in there it’s in there vs the pills which come with a lot more side effects. Hope that helps but diet and supplements did nothing for me and I ended up with much worse y scores by trying to do it wlone so what works for one person doesn’t work for another do what feels right for you. Good luck

[Orange89 in reply to MyStar86]

Thanks so much! Indeed very helpful. Best wishes for your continued recovery, regards

[mollysuki in reply to Met00]

Hi Met

I attended a meeting with a top rheumatologist and he said that the thinking now is that -2.4 is a more realistic level. I’m assuming that this figure has been reached through research. I will have a look through current research to see if I can find out more about this new information.

[Met00 in reply to mollysuki]

Do you mean as a starting point for Osteoporosis? Yet they know that t-scores alone are fairly meaningless!

[mollysuki in reply to Met00]

Yes I assume as a starting point.

[Rovelli in reply to Met00]

I got a FRAX score of 13.4% but I don't know if that's good or bad.

[Met00 in reply to Rovelli]

That means if 100 people had the same risk factors as you, 13 to 14 would fracture in the next 10 years. Put another way, 86 to 87 wouldn't fracture. As far as I understand, however, they consider we have a high fracture risk if the FRAX score is 10% or higher, which would mean your risk is high. Personally, I would only consider that a high risk if I'd already suffered a fracture.

[Rovelli in reply to Met00]

Thank you! I have been prompted to look it up. The risk seems to be greater if you get a poor score for the hip. The threshold for treatment seems higher for a poor spine result. I am most likely going to decline biphosphonates until the next test in 2 years time; I will try to change my behaviours.

[skinnykangal]

Hi. I Have just posted this but thought I would send it directly to you, in case it is of help.

Improving Bone Density with diet and exercise – the story continues.

The below table shows how my bone density has improved in 18months using a combination of diet and exercise. I realise this plan is not for everyone but hope this may encourage others in a similar position to mine to believe it can be done.

As background I can say a very bad reaction to a single Fosamax pill, prescribed in May 2021, prompted me to eschew the pharma option and try something more natural. The results speak for themselves. I have never felt so healthy.

I am now 59years old, I weigh 54kg and am 162cm tall.

Date Spine T-score Z score

May 2021 -2.8 -1.5

Dec 2021 -2.1 -0.7

Dec 2022 -1.8 -0.4

From early June 2021 I embarked on a low glycaemic index 80:20 alkaline diet with regular exercise including brisk walking (8km with some hills), arm work with resistance bands and yoga.

The aim was always to promote improved bone density: my goal was not weight loss, or going “totally alkaline” or anything gimmicky – I was fully focussed on encouraging bone development.

How did I start ?

1.By cutting out the bad stuff.

I greatly reduced, but did not eliminate, from my diet the following: meat, wheat, sugar, dairy, eggs, caffeine, salt, processed foods and fizzy drinks. I limited my alcohol to 1 or 2 glasses of wine every 3rd day.

And

2. Promoting the good stuff.

I consume between 7-9 pieces or portions of vegetable or fruit daily (fruit is usually only 1 or 1 ½ portions of the total). There is a world of veg out there - it is easy to vary the diet and eat a wide range of vegetables.

Legumes and fresh seafish (mainly salmon and sardines) are my main sources of protein.

Snacks are mainly of or derived from seeds and some nuts – for example home-made energy balls using tahini, oats and almonds. I also enjoy cholcolate at a minimum of 70% cocoa solids, or a few cacao nibs.

I drink a minimum of 2 litres of water daily.

As I progressed with the programme I found I drank less alcohol and nowadays have perhaps one drink every couple of weeks or so. I have gone off red wine (not a sentence I ever thought I would write!). I could not say I have quit alcohol but my consumption is minimal.

Coffee – I have a decent cup of coffee every 7-10days. This is my only caffeine intake apart from the chocolate.

I won’t go into too much detail here but do invite anyone who has questions to drop me a line.

[Rovelli in reply to skinnykangal]

Thank you. I am a bit confused about your not having dairy, as when I was given the diet sheets after the scan I was reassured to see milk, cheese and yogurt as they are amongst the few things that I like. 🤔

[skinnykangal in reply to Rovelli]

OK. There is some new thinking regarding dairy and OP which I discovered as I was reading around things like "How to Reverse Osteoporosis Naturally" and the alkaline diet. It is now generally believed that dairy, when metabolised, creates an acidic environment within the body. To compensate for this, and to re-set the blood pH back to normal, the body draws on the nearest available alkalising source and that is Calcium from bones.

You will obviously want to do your reading around on this subject but I would suggest checking lists of non- dairy calcium sources. I do eat dairy but it is part of my 20, not my 80. I hope that helps. I am very happy to answer further questions.

[Rovelli in reply to skinnykangal]

Thank you very much. I'm going to have a good look.

[loveallpets in reply to skinnykangal]

This gives me hope. Thank You.

[99real]

FYI for those taking omeprazole or the brand version Prilosec, these meds can cause osteoporosis. I don't know about the other acid reflux ones. Chronic Kidney Disease is another side effect of omeprazole/Prilosec. Some doctors know this, others don't. Mine didn't until I tested for CKD and severe osteoporosis.

[skinnykangal]

Hi Rovelli, can you look at my posts as skinnykangal? I have improved my bone density significantly in the past 18months with a combination of diet and exercise. If you cannot see the posts please let me know and I can forward the informationto you.

[Cappuccinobaby]

My osteoporosis was caused by hyperparathyroidism and my t scores were -2.7 femoral neck and -2.4 Lumbar spine. 18 months post op and femoral head -2.3 and lumbar spine -1.8 no meds just vit d, calcium, magnesium glycinate, vit k ( mk7) and boron. My advise to anyone diagnosed with osteoporosis is get a blood test to rule out curable hyperparathyroidism before starting any medication......

[Rovelli]

Fantastic! Did you have to be prescribed the boron, vit K and magnesium.

[ppsc216]

February 2020 I had a femoral neck score of -2.6. Last week I went for another scan, it is now -2.3. I didn't take meds, I took calcium citrate, d3, k2, boron, magnesium and silica. Exercise wise I did jumps and jogged with a weighted vest, maybe a couple times a week. I wasn't confident I would see improvement, since it was the GP who urged me to get a private scan done to prove I needed to go on meds. Glad I'm able to go back to the GP and show him I no longer have osteoporosis. The improvement has also boosted my will power to do the exercises everyday now. I have also added standing on one leg at a time with a weighted vest, squats with a weighted vest and upped my daily step count. One thing I would like to point out though, I had extremely low vitamin d levels, which was probably the cause of my osteoporosis. I increased my intake of vitamin d and pushed my levels to about 70 (at one point I was around 15) I think that made the biggest difference. The GP was never too interested in getting my vitamin d levels up. I took the increased dosage and paid for vitamin d tests myself to monitor progress. I bought all the supplements myself, not prescribed.

[Rovelli in reply to ppsc216]

That's just fantastic. I have stopped doing jumps in case I get a spine fracture. I wonder what dose of vit d you take.

[ppsc216 in reply to Rovelli]

I take 4000iu. Yes, my osteoporosis was in my hip so jumps are fine for me.

[ppsc216 in reply to Rovelli]

Check your vitamin d level first before increasing dosage, you may not need so much.