Milk has a low GI but a very high insulin resistance. In a study done on 8 year old boys, increased milk consumption induced insulin resistance in a couple of weeks.
With insulin resistance, diabetes and metabolic syndrome being a big part of heart disease risk, should people with heart disease be drinking milk.
Thoughts please, but I'd be interested to know if anyone on here who has developed heart disease, especially in their 40's and 50's consumed a lot of dairy?
Hi fergusthegreat. I was diagnosed with heart disease at the age of 53. Was it a shock? Oh yes! Have I changed? Oh yes! My diet was dire. When I look back I never consumed a lot of diary. I never ate cheese or butter. Milk only a little in tea and cereal now and again. Same really with yoghurt and eggs . Now when I reflect I ate a whole lot of sugar. Simple carbs. White everything. Cakes, biscuits, pop etc. My heart disease I think was contributed by lots of sugar intake and family history. My opinion is healthy fats are ok but watch the sugar. Have a great day
Hi Red,
Thanks for the reply. I'm pretty much the same, although I have always done a lot of exercise but my diet was crap.
Have a look at the link below, it shows that milk consumption, although it has a low glycemic index it has the same effect on insulin as the white bread, rice etc that you were eating.
Please can you give the reference for this rather bizarre sounding claim?
Kids in the 50s/60s/70s all had free school milk and probably ate more cheese than the current situation. From my own observations a high percentage that developed heart disease first became overweight/obese, did little exercise and ate to many cooked breakfasts and to much junk food like burgers and fried chicken.
Hi, yes I have the study downloaded in pdf form but will try to add a link.
Another consideration
Breastfeeding is beneficial to the health of both the mother and her baby.
The boys in the study may have been formula fed which is associated with greater weight gain in infants and obesity in childhood
link.springer.com/article/1...
In answer to your question
' should people with heart disease be drinking milk?'
You could be asking why are so few babies in some parts of the world not breastfed?
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
Hi, please see my reply to Michael
Tend to agree...
Sorry Michael, but I think you and Milk fairy have misunderstood my question.
I'm not talking about human breast milk, I'm talking about cows milk.
Have a look at the link I provided, it shows that 8 year old boys developed insulin resistance when increasing their protein intake from milk.
Thanks for the link
It was a very small study only 24 boys. Why only boys?
There are many variables
What is required is a much more detailed study with larger numbers of participants
Today is International Clinical Trials day
It celebrates the first randomised trial by James Lind who found that scurvy could be cured by sailors eating limes.
ukcrc.org/international-cli...
Here in the UK the National Institute of Health Research NIHR is celebrating by asking their Research Champions to get involved and say why research is important
As Milkfairy has said it is a very small study. Also taking in all the extra protein as milk is questionable as it equates to 1.5 to 2 litres of extra milk per day. I think it might be more relevant as mixed dairy so cheese, yogurt and other products are included.
It was 16 years ago so one wonders why no further research was undertaken?
BTW I had assumed cows' milk.
Well I don't want to get into conspiracy theories but I know in the USA the dairy industry is a major sponsor of the American Heart Foundation.
I don't think that they would want negative health impacts associated with milk, yoghurt etc.
Anyway my post is purely for my own interest.
After getting a stent I did a lot of research into heart disease and have tried to minimise all the risk factors that I could in the hope that I could save the health services some money and avoid needing more treatment.
I changed a lot in my diet but have probably increased my dairy intake in the belief that it was healthy.
After reading this and several other studies I'm beginning to question my judgment.
I agree there is an issue about how the vested interests of some industries could potentially override public health.
The BHF is supported by donations from the public. They take no money from the pharmaceutical industry or the government.
It can therefore hopefully be an independent voice for all heart patients.
The BHF has alot of useful evidence based information about a healthy heart diet
bhf.org.uk/informationsuppo...
Thanks for the link 👍
Hi Heythrop 51,
Here is the link. The article appeared in nature. com and shows that when children increased their protein intake, after one week the ones on a milk diet developed insulin resistance.
The ones on a meat diet didn't.
The lower fat options of dairy are a good source of both protein and calcium.
Yes true but it still causes a large spike in insulin possibly leading to insulin resistance much like the much maligned white bread, rice, chips etc.
Are you saying cheese which is virtually carb free causes an insulin spike? It doesn't make sense to me.
Hi Heythrop, my interest stems from trying to eat as heart healthily as I can to try and avoid a trip back to the cath lab.
Trouble is there is a lot of mixed messages surrounding some so called healthy foods.
I have a copy of a study which fed university students a variety of single foods and meals to measure the glycemic and insulin responses.
I don't want to be reported for giving medical advice but if you are concerned about insulin spikes and the subsequent inflammation and damage to the arteries it would seem better to consume full fat dairy.
Whole milk and cheddar cheese caused almost half the insulin spike that skimmed milk did.
Saturated fat content on the other hand is a different view point.
Very interesting indeed...
Fergusthegreat have a look at all SOS007 posts. He is a very informative guy. He has truly helped me try and walk through this thick treacle of heart do's and don'ts. All I know is I do not eat at all the way I do now and hoping and praying it will pay dividends and stop my heart disease from getting worse. Take care and keep well
Think you have the name wrong. The Member search says he doesn't exist!
I remember him but as you say he is no longer listed.
Thanks for the info. I don't suppose you know what the insulin index is for Natural Greek yogurt do you as I can't find it.
Thanks 😁
The old saying....everything in moderation, a balanced diet and exercise. Not really rocket science is it.
Unfortunately Roy if you forget about the rockets and look at the food science it is not so simple.
For instance eggs and milk are marketed as healthy but eggs have been shown to increase the risk of metastatic prostate cancer and in women who have had breast cancer, high milk consumption is linked to a high risk of the cancer returning.
That's very interesting
Have you got the research articles about eggs and milk having this effect?
Some people once a risk is quantified are comfortable with the extra small risk especially when it means a better quality of life.
Hence the phrase 'all things in moderation ' is a useful rule of thumb for many people.
My view is follow a Mediterranean diet with nothing in excess. Living carries risks and nobody gets out alive...
How on earth did I manage to get to my ripe old age without all this scientific knowledge. Pass the egg sandwich dear. lol
Keep safe Roy
sos007
Look under chlosterol posts. He's excellent! Have a great day
Hi all,
We have some Heart Matters articles on the subject which might be of interest
bhf.org.uk/informationsuppo...
bhf.org.uk/informationsuppo...
bhf.org.uk/informationsuppo...
Hope this helps!
Hi Helen, thanks for the info
Hi Helen,
Since developing heart disease I have tried to reduce my modifiable risk factors as much as possible and eat a very healthy diet.
It is my belief that inflammation is the main cause of ischmaetic heart disease and that insulin resistance is one of the causes of this. Hence, I try restrict foods that cause large insulin spikes.
Despite the point of this post being to illustrate the fact that reduced fat dairy products cause a far higher insulin spike than full fat versions and I think based on the evidence should be avoided in favour of the full fat versions you have posted a link to a bhf information leaflet supporting the consumption of low fat dairy.
I have to confess to being very frustrated with the conflicting information when all I and a lot of people are trying to do is eat healthily.
My whole family, and there are a lot of us, were and still do consume a lot of cheese and yogurt. I am the only one that developed a blocked artery and that happened to me at the age of 59. I received two stents and was told the rest of the coronary tree has mild disease, as one would expect for someone my age.
Thanks very much 👍
True, but it is difficult to know what to believe with so many conflicting views.
I just skim read the PhD thesis in the link above.
Purely from an insulin index point of view, a snickers bar is healthier than a banana 😭😭
Bugger it, I'm off to the pub for a pint and a pizza, stay safe 👍
If you are interested in the pathogenesis of CVD check out Vladimir Subbotin's paper published in 2016, it is a bit lengthy but he also posted a shorter summary in video form on youtube last year which is very informative and also highlights a strange anomaly of the structure of coronary arteries beimng falsely portrayed on some reputable websites. Also diets are confusing, apart from the only reliable one which is the Predimed trial - Mediterranean diet, Tim Spector's excellent book 'The Diet Myth' gives you the science behind or not behind all diets backed up by his own research with the twins project at Kings College London which he has been involved with for many years.
I now take the simple view a little of what you fancy will do you no harm! Rely on the statins, and remember you won’t change your hereditary. Best Wishes 👍
Strange I had just posted this before seeing your contribution
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