anyone had a CAC scan?

[Ianc2]

If you did, was it worth it?

[MichaelJH Heart Star]

I have not but had a CT angiogram. This is what the BHF says:

As with the CT coronary angiogram, it’s often used to rule out coronary heart disease. A low calcium score is useful because it indicates that it’s highly unlikely that you have coronary heart disease.

However, a moderate or high score isn’t that useful as sometimes moderate or high calcium plaques don’t cause problems and there’s no evidence that treating people with these scores has any benefit.

In a nutshell, a CT calcium score is useful when the doctor can’t explain what’s causing the symptoms but thinks you’re unlikely to have coronary heart disease.

You may be given a calcium score if you’re not suitable for a CT angiogram. It’s also used a lot in private screening because it’s cheap, quick and simple to do.

[bobaxford]

I had a private CT Body scan in 2004 and it identified high CAC score of 586, wry high risk for my age 54. This prompted me to go to GP and cardiologist, had angiogram that confirmed ‘mild’ blockages in my

LAD. Unfortunately, although prescribed statins, low fat diet and was exercising well it progressed and I had another private CT scan this time CAC score 1560 and prompted me again to see GP, cardiologist another angiogram and this resulted in me having bypass at age 64. So in my case it was definitely worth it.

[Ianc2 in reply to bobaxford]

I suppose I am looking for the holy grail - a quick and easy way of identifying arteries that are in the process of blocking up . Fergusthegreat has a very interesting post which examines the work of a doctor who identifies the role of sugar (in all it's many forms) in overwhelming the bodies defences and being a prime cause of plaque formation.

Basically he postulates the too much sugar overwhelms the bodies insulin process and the body has to try and dump it wherever it can, into fat cells and the blood stream, where it latches on to the red blood cells and makes them sticky. It also sticks to the artery walls, making a dangerous combination that is starting point in the process of forming plaques.

When you eat your body either burns or stores excess food, After a while you get hungry it open up the fat cells and burns fat. Processed high carb food containing lots of sugar drives a coach and horses through the entire system and kicks of a whole raft of long term problems.

In August 2017 the PURE study was published, It involved tracking135,335 people in 1238 different countries, over 7.4 years, found that higher saturated fat intake was associated with lower stroke risks and did not cause higher rates of mortality.

Another study the MRFIT study led participants to increase their intake of polyunsaturated fat and decrease their intake of saturated fat. Hundreds of millions of dollars were spent. The expected result was that 'saturated fat causes heart disease'.

The desired outcome was not achieved. The Wall Street Journal reported "Heart attacks - A Test Collapses".

Another study in 2015 showed that polyunsaturated oils drive the development of diabetes and weight gain. This trial was conducted on mice. Adding refined sugar/fructose to the mix is the finishing touch.

There is a video out there named 'The Widowmaker' about a man called David Bobbett which should be required watching for everyone.

All of which may explain why your low fat diet did not work very well and your score increased. As far as I am aware there are no 'Low fat - high carb diet' studies available.

[Hidden in reply to Ianc2]

I think that reading a few posts and looking at my own experience with the mainstream medicine do make me think there got to be a far better way.

The traditional diagnostic tests probably belong to the past when these were invented and early preventative care was not their priority.

There are a few lab tests available at top Cardiology care in the USA (quite unlikely available on NHS) that can be used to get a fuller picture. Over there, you do not need any physician to order them. You order them yourself. These would soon be available in major cities in England (privately) if not already.

As you stated "bravely" before it's a lot to do with chronic underinvestment on imaging equipments. I get an impression that the majority of people resign to accept what their NHS Cardiologist tell them to have. If that's what they prefer, that would be their choice.

I have seen a few major hospitals abroad. They got spanking new ones sat behind their emergency room floor space for the quickest diagnosis/treatment, along with keen med students to look at the results. . . I bet astute British Cardiologists know themselves, but they carry on regardless. . .

One London-based Cardiologist commented NHS money i.e. billions, being wasted on things that are not going to help ANYONE whatsoever. I can imagine how frustrated these clever Cardiologists must be themselves.

I was looking at the latest "nutritional" update. It does appear that as someone else (a regular poster) posted already, animal proteins (including fish) is also being looked at conclusively as very inflammatory, amongst other things, which used to be seen as "very good for you".

Useful to know. Efforts should be better focused on. This is all thanks to the great posts by great posters, including your good self, of course, who had taken time to care and share.

In the meantime, I am not stopping my whey protein yet. . .

[fergusthegreat in reply to bobaxford]

Interesting that you choose the words unfortunately and although to describe your medication and lifestyle changes.

The fact that you had a CAC score of 584 indicates a high chance of severe coronary stenosis.

Despite this, the statins and lifestyle and exercise that you did managed to avoid surgery for 10 years.

I would you the words because of and awesome because I think this combination of lifestyle and medication was very successful for you.

[bobaxford in reply to fergusthegreat]

I was asymptomatic so I think the both CAC scores were very much the identifiers that helped the action to prevent a fatal unannounced HA. The surgeon said my blockage in LMS and LAD was the classic widowmaker. Having since watched “Widowmaker the movie” I am inclined be very grateful that I had them both.

[Healthyheart1 in reply to bobaxford]

That was a great intervention.!!

[fergusthegreat]

I'm not a doctor but I wouldn't bother with CAC scans after maybe an initial one.

Coronary calcium is your bodies way of trying to stabilise the soft plaques so they don't rupture and lead to a heart attack.

Statins may also increase calcium score while trying to stabilise plaque so very little point getting another scan because it won't tell you much.

[fergusthegreat]

I meant to add to my previous post that in conclusion, an increasing CAC score may not always be a bad thing.

[Hidden in reply to fergusthegreat]

I would be interested in the subject.

I have some calcium deposit on my left thyroid.

Endo was worried if that may mean if it's a marker for poss. cancer.

[Ianc2]

My question is 'Can a low carb, no added sugar reverse the process of plaque formation"?

[bobaxford in reply to Ianc2]

This is what I now follow, low carb and no processed or sugary foods. I now try to eat only real food and no added stuff.

[Milkfairy Heart Star in reply to Ianc2]

Interesting question.

Slow down yes, stop probably, reverse unlikely.

I have not as yet seen an explanation as to how the plaque is reabsorbed or disappears.

Even small areas of plaque can erode leading to clot formation and then a possible heart attack or unstable angina ( acute coronary syndrome)

Fractional flow reserve ( FFR) is increasingly being assessed during an angiogram to guide Cardiologists as to whether an area of plaque whatever size is affecting how the blood flows through the coronary blood vessels.

Prof Tim Spector at Kings through his longditudinal twin research is looking at the biome. The research is suggesting it is the diversity of our gut flora that is important.

A poor biome effects every system in our bodies including inflammation, heart disease, diabetes, and obesity .

As Autumnsonnet has indicated this holistic all body system and mind approach to medicine is not widely embraced within the medical world let alone the NHS....yet!

bmj.com/content/361/bmj.k2179

Could someone pass the yoghurt , berries and lentils please ? 😁

[Hidden in reply to Milkfairy]

Oh, Milkfairly,

Thanks to your brave posts, I had a great fun with the Registrar at top London Neuro establishment yesterday. Your great spirit is immensely inspiring. It's important for anybody to know that you are working on changing things for the better. . .

It was also nice to go to London for a day, too.

We, patients, heartie warriors, unite!

In your case, "Fairly warrior", maybe.

[Hidden in reply to Milkfairy]

I have seen an article (one of the most well-reputed publisher) that bacteria found in the Gut was also found in Kidney and other organ systems, causing inflammation. Via vessels, presumably?

[Ianc2]

From the article I understand that lower bacterial counts are linked to type 2 diabetes and stiffness in arterial walls, Emulsifiers in processed food can damage the gut biome and that Sucralose and other artificial sweeteners - not good. However dietary fibre is very good.

Do you have a recipe for your yoghurt, berries and lentil smoothie?

[Milkfairy Heart Star]

I thought this comment was interesting

'Given the variation in the gut microbiota between people, the optimal diet of a person may need to be tailored to their gut microbiota. '

Vegan/ vegetarian diets don't necessarily mean a more diverse biome.

It's eating a rich variety of foods lots of fibre, pulses, colourful food ( I do love beetroot) and moderate amounts of fish, diary products and meat.

Sounds familiar....

[Milkfairy Heart Star]

Forgot to add the debate about sugar has been around for years.

Prof John Yudkin Physiologist and Nutritionist published his book

' Pure Deadly and White ' in 1972.

His view was that sugar might have a part to play in why people are over weight or develop heart disease.

Prof Tim Spector's work is pethaps saying why this happens in some individuals and not others.

[Hidden]

I had my CT scan this year and my score is in the 800s but I am as yet asymptomatic. Not much of a shock to me, as it happens, in view of family history and I'm glad I had it done. I had already lost weight/improved my diet (depending on who you listen to and what you believe...) and am otherwise fit and well. Who knows if the problem happened years ago or if it's still happening? The cardiologist put me on Candesartan (I'm not hypertensive) and reassured me that WHEN I have my event, he'll be inside my arteries within half an hour! I asked him if he believes cholesterol is the enemy and he said yes, absolutely, with the quip 'all the rest is b*llsh*t'. I've been taking statins for 20 years, as had my father for 20 years before he had his fatal HA. Can I be forgiven for being sceptical about cholesterol being the problem? I'm having a stress echocardiogram next week- yippee!

[Hidden]

Everybody takes sugar.

I was thinking about this after seeing some heartie peers in a real-time of late.

If I had extra 2-3 years locked up in an old folks home in misery (unable to get up/cannot feed myself/cannot wash myself etc), I might as well enjoy what life has to offer rather than living on a very restrictive lifestyle.

We are gradually "decaying" from inside as some doctors put it.

2-3 years extra years with no quality of life that come with these times do not mean much to me.

It's interesting to read the limited microbiota translate into these diseases. Is this life-style association or a diet? Fibre? I think it could be "genetic". . .

CAC might be useful to confirm certain types of heart diseases associated with metabolic syndromes, possibly thyroid disease but primarily, Diabetes/obesity. Some do confirm that, diabetes is intimately related to heart conditions or these are just the same condition. I think this is where sub-category of Heart conditions might be of use. Not all heart diseases are the same; they have different etiologies.

But there are other types of heart diseases; especially if you've never had any clogged arteries as in lanc2 or others, I am not sure about the relevance of CAC.

There are some relevant lab tests offered abroad. I will speak to Cardio next time I see him @ HF clinic.