New ablation procedure: moorlandsradio... - Atrial Fibrillati...
New ablation procedure
Another centre then.
I have had afib since 2033 - have a pacemaker, a watchman, one catheter ablation (unsuccessful) and on several medications. I recently visited with a cardiac surgeon who performs the hybrid convergent procedure. He reviewed my records and even with the high success rate he suggested that because I am generally asymptomatic the current status does not justify this procedure even as minimally invasive at this time.
Hi Dancerbraveheart,
My AF is symptomatic but I am confused about the difference between unsymptomatic and symptomatic. My thoughts are that symptomatic means you are aware of it / feel the eratic beats and unsymptomatic is when you don't feel anything different or experience discomfort, despite the eratic beats prevailing. I would have thought that both will cause the same problems down the line so having or not having the hybrid convergent procedure should make no difference between both senarious. The outcome of uncontrolled AF will cause the same problems in the future. Or have I misunderstood.
in my case there is a real difference be symptomatic and asymptomatic but I am dx with paroxysmal afib. I know when it comes on and know when it’s gone I have used heart monitor on a couple of occasions which has confirmed my situation . Also my new Apple Watch has been very consistent with my subjective experience of afib . Im on meds now and my afib is controlled and my iwatch will tell me on a weekly basis , 2% or less afib this week which means there has been no detectable afib. I know there are people who cannot feel their arrhythmias but I would think it’s probably important to know whether you are truly asymptomatic ( no active afib episodes ) vs you are having them but don’t feel it. No?
Sorry JoniM
I'm not sure where your thinking is going on this. I am interested in your answer but would appreciate it if you could read my chat again as I have been specific on certain points regarding symptomatic and asymptomatic. Please see my response to Dancerbraveheart for further information. I don't think your answer addresses my question. Many thanks.
Sorry I must have misunderstood your question and thought it would be helpful to share my situation regarding being symptomatic vs asymptomatic… and specifically how I am able to verify when I am feeling afib episodes…Anyway, it seems I have complicated the situation so feel free to disregard my comment. I assure you I was not being intentionally obscure or offensive but I have minimally added to some confusion. Glad you found the comments by others more clarifying and good luck with your treatment decisions.
Hello JoniM
I didn't think you were being obscure or offensive at all and thank you for sharing your experience. The point I was trying to understand from Dancerbraveheart was how somebody with asymptomatic AF would not be considered for the new convergent treatment whereas somebody with symptoms would be a suitable candidate. It just doesn't make sense to me because symptomatic or asymptomatic, both still experience the effects of AF even though one group doesn't have symptoms. Regards Rosie
Hello Bob,
Is this new procedure the same as a Wolf mini-maze as experienced by Saulgar.
Regards
You can find a video of the Wolf minimaze procedure on his website ...
And just tagging MummyLuv
Hello Ozziebob,
I saw a video of the Wolf minimaze about 18 months ago on his website. I am not sure if what has been spoken about on this forum is a hybrid of this or not so trying to establish the facts. Thanks for your response.
Rosie.
Yes, of course. I trust someone like MummyLuv who has experience of a maze procedure will give you the details you are seeking.
I am not a suitable candidate yet for any of these procedures, but if you are curious and want to investigate further, as I just did, I can recommend the free version of ChatGPT which just gave me excellent summaries of the techniques used in some of the different procedures available for AF other than a catheter ablation.
I checked out a comparison between the Convergent procedure, the Cox maze procedure and the Wolf minimaze procedure. Worth a look?
Bob
Thanks Afrun. It sounds very hopeful and interesting. The success rate is high and positive. It will be interesting to see the statistics as time goes on when a few more procedures are performed. It’s good to know they are progressing in the research for a cure. Hope is what we all need.
this great news! As I’ve said before I personally think hybrid availability will increase as a way of treating symptomatic persistent afib, given the involvement of EPs. So good to see it being offered in Staffordshire. Hopefully some of these patients will join us on here and help guide others.
PS I should disclose I am one of our surgical ablation members on here, for new members ❤️
Hello MummyLuv,
What is the difference between the Wolf mini maze and this hybrid procedure.
Thanks. Rosie.
fantastic news, more options for more people, I’m one of the hybrid mini maze group.
Great article, convinced me, thanks for posting.
Hi Afrun.
Thanks for sharing this. Great news for me as I come under the UHNM as I live in Gnosall, Staffs. I'm going to jump on this one in a flash. Stoke Royal will be recieving a call from me first thing this morning. It's written down on my 'to do list' as a priority.
I'll post on how things progress but this one does seem to tick the boxes for me.
Paul
Good luck Paul. Keep us updated please.
Hi Cavalierrubie.
Called them. Mr Lognathen Balacumaraswami (Consultant Cardiothoracic Surgeon) likes to be called Mr Swami as his name is a bit of a mouth full! It sounds like a referral from my GP will 'seal the deal'.
Next stop call to GP for the referral.
Paul
Good O. Great 😊. Can’t wait to hear all.
Great news! Keep us informed.
Amazing Paul 🙌
Good luck! I live in Stafford and I'm drifting back into afib after a successful ablation 2 years ago. I rather think I'll be joining the queue next year.
Hi Afrun.
I'll pitch my tent next to yours and hope 2025 will be the year!
Paul
Hi AFrun.
I have just had a thought! If you live in Stafford we ought to meet up for a coffee? I live in Gnosall and visit the town a few times a week. Most of the HU 'meets' are further south but there are no local ones. If you do want to arrange to meet I could start a new thread. If others who live nearby want to come then all the better.
Paul
Hi Paul, let me know when you're next in town and I'll try to meet up. Maybe M&S coffee shop?Dave
Hi Dave.
Sounds good to me. Just had a look online - the coffee and food look lovely. I have to go to Stafford tomorrow morning but it will be short for time and will not have time to meet. One day next week sounds fine if you are free? I'll do a quick thread about meeting up and see if anyone else wants to come along.
Look forward to seeing you soon.
Paul
Ok. Christmas is a busy time but let me know.
Sounds like an excellent development, although if demand increases strongly and it always involves a 3 night stay you can imagine the NHS capacity challenges.
This sounds exciting. How does this differ from the mini maze procedure I’ve read about? I had a cryoablation at John Radcliffe in March, but it doesn’t look as though it’s worked, as the AF keeps returning. I’m now on the waiting list for RF ablation, but I’m not filled with hope TBH. If one ablation didn’t work, I’m not confident another will. It would be great if there was a different procedure that could sort it out once and for all.
For what it's worth - my wife had a cryoablation in 2014 which didn't go well as the phrenic nerve got damaged and took near enough 12 months to heal. She then had an RF ablation in 2017 which did work. No AF since (fingers crossed).
Gosh tcpace, I empathise with your wife, I too had cryoablation that hit my phrenic nerve, horrible not being able to breath properly. Still to this day I get breathless at times and I’m sure it’s related (after surgical ablation I am in sinus rhythm)
I take it they have done X-rays to make sure your diaphragm is back to normal. As I said before, it took just under 12 months for my wife's diaphragm to start working properly. She thought something had changed when, one day, she got a peculiar sensation across the lower part of her chest - sort of a tingling feeling.
So nice to hear that your wife’s RF ablation worked. Reassures me that maybe mine will too…
A mini maze is surgical ablation done thoroscopically through the rib cage. It ablates the pulmonary veins, the back of the left atrium (except the wolf mini maze which does not do this) and removes the left appendage.
a hybrid procedure is a mini maze and catheter ablation at the same time (or 3 months paper)
a convergent procedure is where the surgical heart ablation is done from under the rib cage, is usually only the ablation of the back of the heart, they do have to ablate more of the back of the heart using this method. It’s never used stand alone, always as part of a hybrid as the EP then relates the pulmonologist veins as part of the same procedure.
Thank you MummyLuv. I feel like I need a medical degree to get my head round all this😅
Thanks for this information, very useful. I’ve just had my 6th cardioversion (and 2 ablations) in a 4 year period and my EP said he wants to talk to me about this procedure at my next appointment. Thanks again
Many thanks for posting this link. I'm trying to understand the technology. So, they still use a RF catheter but instead of the groin it goes in through the abdomen? Chest? Does it target the same spot as conventional RF ablation or does it target a different part of the heart? Conventional ablation catheters enter the heart through an artery right? Why is it called hybrid? What exactly do they mean by 80 to 90 per cent effective? If any one knows the answers kindly share. If this procedure does not enter the heart at all that is fantastic. I wonder if the same techniques can be applied to ventricular arrhythmias.
My guess is that it's in addition to a standard catheter ablation. No doubt Google will reveal more details as the procedure becomes more widely used.
Ablation procedure question
AF Convergant Ablation (Apparently new procedure)
New Advances in the Ablation Procedure
Air Travel after ablation procedure
A question about ablation procedure
