Atrial flutter/fib

[Sebo27]

Hello all

I've recently been diagnosed with Atrial flutter/AF after having a PFO closure. Anybody else had this at all?? It's screwing with my head and I need some answers or just someone who understands 😔

[Paulbounce]

Hi Sebo.

Anybody else had this at all??

Yes - me. It doesn't bother me that much TBH. However, if it did I would have an ablation for that one. It has a very high success rate (much better than an ablation for Afib). It can be completed very quickly and has a short recovery time for many people.

I wouldn't fret too much about this one. Just treat it as a nuisance but nothing that can't be dealt with.

Paul

[Sebo27 in reply to Paulbounce]

Thanks Paul I've already had a PFO closure so not sure they can go back 'in' again? Plus the experience wasn't so great. Are you on any meds?

[Paulbounce in reply to Sebo27]

Hi Sebo.

I'm sure you can. You should be on an anticoagulant after a PFO (I think but check with your medic).

An ablation for flutter won't be half as bad an experience as a PFO (again check with your medic).

Am I on any meds? I've got more than the local chemist but most of them are for a lung infection.

Paul

Edit - I wrote an ablation for flutter won't be half as bad an experience as a PFO. Check this with your doctor as I'm not 100% sure. However, a flutter ablation shouldn't be very bad at all. I'm sure others will jump in who have had one and tell you about their experience

Edit #2 - I re-read your post and realised you have Afib too. Ask your doctor to refer you to see a cardio. There are treatments to help - you'll have your ups and downs and it's always a shock when you are first told. The odds are in your favour and I'll bet it won't be half as bad as you think it will be 👍

[CDreamer]

Yes I had both and a PFO - which was only found during ablation for AFib where they have to puncture a hole through the septum anyways to get to the right atrium which is possibly why you think you may not be able to have an AF ablation? Should be fine but only an EP will be able to tell you for sure. Ablation for AFl idoesn’t requre a septum puncture and if they can stop the AFl it may well stop the AF. I have to say that in my case AFl makes you feel a LOT worse than AF. I have had PAF with occasional AFL since 2007, done the gamut of treatments and now have less than 2% AF burden - meaning I’m in NSR for 98% of the time which I can live with.

Are episodes intermittent - PAF=paroxysmal AF or persistent = 24/7?

Are you taking meds? Lifestyle can influence the intensity and the sensations, especially worry and stress so the less you worry and stress about it, the smaller the impact on your life. Yes I know that’s easier said than done but plenty of things really help such as getting a treatment plan, having a lot more knowledge about the condition and treatments - go to the AFA website and read all you can. Adopt breathing techniques to help you keep calm and learn how to monitor yourself so that you know when you really need emergency help - first and foremost if you experience any pain then ring paramedics or go to A&E and get checked out. Ring 111 if you are unsure.

Unfortunately ablations are not always long lasting and it may be that you will still be asked to take meds for some time but there are other options, usually medications but also look at Lifestyle changes which may well help you.

PS - I did not need to have my PFO closed, most people don’t but your AF/AFl may also settle down once your heart heals. How long ago was it closed?

[Sebo27 in reply to CDreamer]

Hello

My PFO was closed on the 18th October 2024. Re life style I'm a keen tri athlete a (or was) and 10k distance runner plus I was swimming 1800 m a week minimum.

I thought by having the PFO closed I could put this horrible chapter behind me. The stroke was a massive shock (10th June 2024) Currently on apixiban and a beta blocker which makes me feel like shit.

The AF is intermittent but very fluttery

[CDreamer in reply to Sebo27]

So sorry you had a stroke but sounds as though you made a good recovery. Your heart is more than likely to be still inflamed so time for things to settle. Bisoprolol is the devil’s spawn as far as I’m concerned and like many people, I couldn’t tolerate it at all. Ask for alternatives. Being an athlete my guess you will have a low resting HR in NSR but do you track your HR when in AFL? Your HR may be going too low on Biso.

Unfortunately elite athletes tend to be prone to AF/Afl because they tend to have enlarged atria so if you stop heavy training suddenly this can be an issue.

May I recommend you look fro Dr John Day’s blog posts - he is a cyclist and a renowned US cardiologist who suffered AF himself and has written a lot about it and how to treat, gives really good advice. Hope that helps.

[Sebo27 in reply to CDreamer]

Cheers pal.

Yeah my stroke was a massive shock and I think I have some sort of PTSD around it

I had a conversation with my GP who said I can stop the bisoprolol today.

I have a normal resting HR of 55 to 50 BPM, on bisoprolol it's been 39!!!! No wonder I can't stand up!

[babs1234 in reply to Sebo27]

I use Bisoprolol as a PIP. Far more tolerable

[Sebo27 in reply to babs1234]

What's a PIP?

[babs1234 in reply to Sebo27]

Pill in the pocket as in take if/when needed

[Auriculaire in reply to Sebo27]

You might want to wean off the Bisoprolol rather than coming off suddenly.

[Sebo27 in reply to Auriculaire]

I've had half tonight which doesn't sound much but it's took the edge off and I'm not slumped in the chair so 🤷🏼

[Alphakiwi in reply to CDreamer]

Hi CDreamer. You say you have 2% burden. How does one know this and , you can live with 98%. Do you have tachycardia and or bradycardia. I have the pacemaker which helps with the brady but not the tachy of course . Its the Tachycardia and short breathed that makes living for me tough.Im seeing my cardio next thursday so im getting my case together for possible AV node ablation. Might be some waiting though in this day and age although as you know i have the pacemaker part done. 3 yrs ago.

[secondtry]

One 'good thing' about AF is that there seems to be many different drugs to try if the first choice causes issues.

Secondly, you are at the right place to hear about the different views of the medics involved and their patients.

eg My resting HR is around 55 and I am by no means an athlete just an active 71yo and 10 yrs ago my cardiologist went against the recognised wisdom and prescribed Flecainide only, not the usual accompanying Bisoprolol. However because you are much younger and fitter that may not be safe for you.

[Gincalpe]

Cardioversion sorted mine back to normal

[Tapanac]

sorry I didn’t read your post properly and realise now you were asking about the PFO causing afib/flutter

I should think your poor heart has been through a rough time maybe give a while to settle down in the meantime your cardiologist or EP can medicate to calm things

No don’t worry. I have all of this including other stuff, but basically a PFO is a small hole which is either congenital but will close eventually (not to be confused with a hole in the heart) or otherwise when an ablation is performed going through one area to another they make a tiny hole which would normally close up within a couple of weeks. In many cases, mine included, it hasn’t

I’ve had my PFO now since about 2017 and like you I panicked, but no one mentions it now snd until I read your message I had forgotten.

All the best

[wilsond]

I had Atrial Flutter and Fibrillation. Ablation for Flutter is 95% successful and much quicker than for AFib. None since June 2022