I posted this in reply to Autumn on another thread.
Hi Autumn.
The asymptomatic people can often remain undiagnosed and it’s only when they suffer from a serious consequence that AF is discovered.
Frightening stuff! They are walking time bombs for a stroke. I read somewhere that 33% of people with AFib don't know they have it. More awareness is needed. Why don't GP surgeries promote checking your pulse? They could do this by displaying 'check your pulse' on their boards in the waiting room - or the doctor could do it for every patient they see—it would only take 30 seconds.
I'm going to ask my GP if they are up for it the next time I visit. If all forum members did this same lives would be saved.
Please do this.
🎸Keep Rocking
Paul
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l agree Paul. I think this has been mentioned before on this forum. GP’s and nurses used to do this as routine years ago so why it’s not still practiced l have no idea. Better still to educate people to take their own pulse. I hadn’t even heard of AF when l was diagnosed 7 years ago, despite it being the most common arrhythmia. There needs to be more awareness l think. Will it change? We can hope.
It’s a good question to ask why they don’t take a patients pulse anymore and one l will ask when l next visit my GP. I think some now use a digital blood pressure reading which would probably register the pulse, but that relies on your blood pressure being taken. With the lack of care and difficulty in getting a GP appointment it is very necessary these days to check most things yourself, or pay to get checked. I think we are all very vulnerable and it’s a very precarious situation.
I do think this is a great idea - if everyone on the forum had a go at their GP to start screening for Afib .. it could literally save lives .. I pestered my GP a few months back and they said someone had donated 15 Kardias which would be used to screen people who go for Covid and flu jabs. A week ago I went for my jab - no sign of a Kardia. You've reminded me I need to ask them about it.
A simple inexpensive gadget like Kardia that includes a record is a no brainer since for those 30 seconds they can continue to peer at their screens and write their reports ...
AFA have been banging on about this for years Paul so you are preaching to the connverted. Years ago if you went to the doctor the first thing they did was take you pulse but despite campaigning since we were formed in 2007 it has never been accepted as government policy. Our last suggestion was for pulse check with every flu jab!
Nice work Bob. There must be away to do this. I have a few ideas - I'm right busy today working on my website but will try to kick-start something later in the week.
Blood pressure checks are offered in all sorts of places where I live in the south west of the UK. Nurses at Dr's surgery always doing them, sometimes Dr's too when you see them. Then checks can be carried out at some chemists offering the service. The first time I was aware of having a test was pre AF days, when walking by a sign that said to go into a church hall and get BP checked free.
I didn't know I had AF until I had a stroke! Another thing that needs to be taken into account is anyone suffering with underactive thyroid problems is prone to AF. Why is the heart rate not taken when yearly blood tests are done for thyroid levels, had this been carried out for me the stroke may have been prevented.
It's a shame you had to have a stroke to find out you had Afib.
I only found out by chance. A group of volunteers were offering free blood pressure tests in the market in Stafford. The person who tried with me said my blood pressure was not enough to take a reading and checked my pulse. He said I needed to make an appointment with my doctor asap.
I had a lucky escape - looking back now it's likely I had Afib for about 2 years before it was detected by a volunteer. I'm pleased I went to the market that day as it could even have saved my life and prevented a stroke!
The locum Dr who has come back t join us at our clinic has!
In my last clinic a learning nurse took my pulse, temperature and BP and noted it for the Dr.
I have said to the receptionists that we should have this done near arrival.
Not only catch irregular heart beat (need to be trained) but high BP, high temp, rapid pulse.
Its good practice.
Tomorrow is my CT scan follow up and I'll call it D Day o learn whether 3 calcificated places need biospied and removed or not. Surgeon leaves end of November.
Good luck with your CT scan tomorrow Joy. I hope you get the results you want.
You wrote...
Not only catch irregular heartbeat (need to be trained)
I'm not sure you need to be trained Joy. You can check your own pulse anytime at home. Note as well that if you have PAF you may not be in Afib on the day you see your doc = negative result.
Um, you miss the word IRREGULAR BEAT. Just by counting the beats, this does not give you irregular beat. And with someone else doing it in your clinic. It needs to accurate.
The other person should be trained in IRREGULAR HEART BEAT for sure, otherwise it will not be noted. And that is the point of discretion REGULAR H/B f.. or IRREGULAR slow or rapid BPM.
When mine was rapid and irregular my dr had to use the stethoscope to measure bpm.
My ex-girlfiend used to check my pulse for a minute. If it skipped a beat she would detect it. She was also very accurate counting BPM. She could tell if I was in Afib within a very short time.
Whow, she was worth keeping. I'm saying that an irregularity can be overlooked unless carefully pointed out. You don't want a person to write down the number without the irregularity, would you.
I remember as a student nurse I learnt to count my pulse bpm - 60 and I did not have AF then. My temperature was 36.5 and not the 37 everyone else was. Sorry can't remember BP.
Amazing that when asleep i'm 47avg bpm and yet in 2019 with 76.47mg Metoprolol @ 186. S does it come out of AF at night. In hospitalat arrival I was diagnosed as Rapid and Persistent AF.
Calling an end to a relationship of 27 years, 'a fini to this as the end by way of a passed sale date" is crude., Paul. You walked out! Are you saying it was stale with no spondinaeity? Perhaps she was waiting for you to turn the 'love 'heat up and she could not see it happening!?
Oh dear.
My hubby said he finished his past relationship of 2 years. Only when ours was 6 mths we were engaged and 6 mths married.
Relationships are all different it seems, like people.
Perhaps your former was 'more like a carer to you it seemed than a romantic entity to love you for life. Messages got tangled.
Just guessing.
My first 'love' was when I was 18 and he was too. At his local party in his area (300+ miles away some girl much older and others got him drunk. He was celebrating a win on the Buikding Share Ballot, he tried to get me on the phone but could not and this Mrs Robinson bedded him. You can guess what happened.
Friends of my brother, older told me what happened. A friend of his was there attending.
I lost out. He promised to see me and explain but he never did. His love letters were incinerated.
It was a bit hard on me and possibly him as we were both young and 'in love'.
It took me about 6 months to get my local surgery to agree to doing a pulse test during the annual health check. Finally they 'got it' of course. As I have it they won't test me so I don't know if they're actually doing it, but I think we should all ask our surgeries to do it, and if they don't why not.
To Paul - Sorry, I need to clarify. I am asymptomatic and am in AF all the time. It took me 6 months to get the surgery to agree to test non diagnosed patients to see if they have AF.To Joy,I can get ECGs on demand, and do so every now and then, but in 12+ years it hasn't varied, which I suppose is good.
I was relatively asymptomatic for years. If my pulse had been taken on the very rare occasions I went to the doctor's I think he would have been unlikely to have caught it.
Even when I was in hospital in 2013 and they said I had AF, I didn't take it seriously. They reported it to my doctor who prescribed bisoprolol. I was supposed to take it twice daily but I didn't realise this so took one now and then. One box lasted me for years.
He did nothing until, having bought my Apple watch, I went to him saying it was happening quite often. He said come in for an ECG when it happens again. A few days later I turned up and they recorded an very high average pulse rate. This alarmed the nurse who insisted I see the duty doctor. She wanted to double the bisoprolol and I wasn't having that so asked to be referred. She didn't like it but it ended up with me having an ablation some weeks later.
Maybe the likelihood of having a stroke should be measured together with other comorbidities. Are asymptomatic patients as likely to have a stroke as highly symptomatic ones or not?
Are asymptomatic patients as likely to have a stroke as highly symptomatic ones or not?
I think that is where the majority of the concern lies and what AFA, Bob & Paul are campaigning for as if you are asymptomatic and undiagnosed you won’t be assessed for stroke risk and therefore less likely to take anticoagulants to lessen the stroke risk.
As a doctor once said to me - with the heart you can feel as though you are dying and not really have that much wrong with you or be in immediate danger (other than AF) but you can have no symptoms and be unaware of AF and then suddenly stroke out.
As a doctor once said to me - with the heart you can feel as though you are dying and not really have that much wrong with you or be in immediate danger (other than AF) but you can have no symptoms and be unaware of AF and then suddenly stroke out.
Rock and a hard place! Always go to A&E though if you have any chest pain - better still dial 999 as it may not be safe to drive.
Your doing a good job son,I haven't even got a GP that I know of .Every time I ring up I'm fobbed off to a pharmacist or a nurse,I just make sure I keep fit.Its a shambles.
I asked Mr Chatty who is most likely to have a stroke - asymatic V highly symptomatic. Here's what he had to say. Please note he is NOT a doctor and it's best to just use the information as something to discuss with your doctor.
Paul
This is for informational purposes only. For medical advice or diagnosis, consult a professional.
Asymptomatic patients with atrial fibrillation (afib) do have a higher risk of stroke than those without afib, but the risk is generally lower than for symptomatic patients. However, the risk is still significant and can be managed with medication.
Here's a breakdown of the risks:
Symptomatic patients: These are people who experience symptoms of afib, such as palpitations, shortness of breath, or fatigue. Their risk of stroke is significantly higher than the general population.
Asymptomatic patients: These are people who have afib but don't experience any symptoms. Their risk of stroke is lower than symptomatic patients but still higher than the general population.
It's important to note that the risk of stroke for both symptomatic and asymptomatic patients can be managed with medication. If you have afib, it's important to talk to your doctor about your risk of stroke and whether medication is right for you.
Here are some things you can do to reduce your risk of stroke if you have afib:
Take your medication as prescribed: This is the most important thing you can do to reduce your risk of stroke.
Control your blood pressure: High blood pressure is a major risk factor for stroke.
Manage your cholesterol: High cholesterol can also increase your risk of stroke.
Maintain a healthy weight: Being overweight or obese can increase your risk of stroke.
Eat a healthy diet: A healthy diet can help you control your blood pressure and cholesterol.
Get regular exercise: Exercise can help you maintain a healthy weight and reduce your risk of stroke.
I was asymptomatic and a podiatrist suggested that I had af - my feet were very cold and so she took a pulse reading on my feet! The GP was initially sceptical and only agreed to refer me for an ecg cos she knew of the podiatrist and on balance considered podiatrists to be ok. I collapsed due to low bp and erratic hr the night before the ecg appointment and was blue lighted to A&E at the same hospital.
Previously my high cholesterol was discovered at an opticians appointment.
It's odd, isn't it? I got my daughter to go to see a rheumatologist because it was uncertain whether she had rheumatoid or osteo arthritis. He said it was osteoarthritis and, from x-rays etc, picked up problems with her feet which he felt were very serious. We hadn't expected that and she has just had surgery.
As for me, I think that if I had taken the doctor's advice I would be stuck on bisoprolol and eliquis for ever, feeling rotten because I have a naturally low pulse rate 63 bpm.
I think that if I had taken the doctor's advice I would be stuck on bisoprolol and eliquis for ever, feeling rotten because I have a naturally low pulse rate 63 bpm
Valid point Paul. MY asymptomatic AF was only diagnosed after a 14 day monitor for my AV re-entrant tachycardia. However luckily I rarely get any runs (so far!) which could prove problematical if my pulse was only taken at random times when visiting my GP as it wouldn't show anything. Difficult one this.
Only found I had AF after my Quartio blood pressure machine was showing irregular post. I am asymptomatic. When I saw cardiologist he said buying that machine probably stopped me having stroke and was the best investment I made.
Only found I had AF after my Quartio blood pressure machine was showing irregular post. I am asymptomatic. When I saw cardiologist he said buying that machine probably stopped me having stroke and was the best investment I made.
My GP takes my pulse when I go for my 6 monthly routine check.I know if she is concerned she will phone my Cardiologist - she was telling me how one of her patients presented with a rate of 160pm, so she phoned a Cardio (Mine actually) and he told her how to bring it down with Biso. On instruction from the Cardio she prescribes it for me, but she said she had not realised how powerful and effective it is.
That could have easily happened to me if I had gone to the doctor's with a heart rate of 200.
However, although I took bisoprolol it didn't stop my fast heart rate when I had AF. For me it made virtually no difference. Not only that it reduced my normal heart rate to 47 at times. The doctor said she wouldn't worry until it got down to 42!
Hi Paul, This is South Africa. She first phoned a specialist. He would have told her to send her patient to him if he did not improve. She had obviously done an ECG as that's the first thing a GP would do with a high HR, and found nothing particularly worrying. This is private medicine, the Cardiologist's rooms are at a private hospital where he has sonar and echo machines in his suite, and access to theatres, radiologists, pathologists etc. in the hospital (all private) It's the reverse here, the private hospitals are better equipped than the public ones.When I was first diagnosed with Afib, it was after I had taken an anti biotic that did not agree with me and I was vomiting little flecks of blood. My HR was 140 BPM the ECG showd Afib so the GP sent me straight to the Cardio because she was worried about a dissection. As soon as I got to the hospital I was put straight in the cardio ward, but by the time the Cardiologist saw me I was back in NSR - I still had to stay the weekend! When I still lived in the UK before I got married, the nearest hospital was miles away, but fortunately other than an accident as a toddler, I did not need it..
the private hospitals are better equipped than the public ones
Reminds me of Bulgaria. As long as you have good health insurance you'll be admitted to a private hospital where the care is second to none. It's cheap too - I paid 100 Lev to see the cardio privately and a translator was thrown in for good measure. The cardio did the lot - ECG/Echogram/Consultation etc including the translator.
Cost? 100 Lev all in - that was about £40 with the exchange rate at the time. Compare that to seeing a cardio in this country. They charge £250/£300 for walking in the door and making eye contact with you (sarcasm intended).
South Africa is a great place to visit by the way. I intend to visit again when my current health issues are resolved.
We are all different cause changed to Bisoprolol, I was not controlled @ 156bpm.
Told to attend Private H/Specialist. He found at rest I was 130+.
He introduced CCB Calcium Channel blocker.
@ 180mg Diliazem my 156 went down to 51 over 2 hours!
I should have had this at Stroke but BB Metoprolol given when I said NO it will make me breathless.
Given 3 x 23.75 tabs - BP settled but H/Rate 186. No followup after stroke.
4 months to Feb 2020 had Thyroidectomy plus, at discharge H/Rate was 136. My clinic did not register that so nothing was done.
Not able to exert myself I was a zombie.
Mistakes were made with my medical management.
I guess there will be others affected too. But I am under the NZ 'stick in the mud' on metoprolol a BB which is sadly ineffective for my rapid AF. No symptoms thank goodness just the tiredness and zombie state.
Here in the US pulse check ( via pulse oximeter) is standard practice at every health maintenance visit and urgent care visits as well. As we all know this is no guarantee to catch any episodes of irregularities. I agree awareness is key. A few high profile celebrities who have been diagnosed have been running infomercial about their experience. I have no feedback on the impact of this type of PSA.
My GP Doctor saved my life following your storyline. I had no symptoms, no pain. Showed up for my regular check-up. After an ecoardiogram, and 2 pulse and bp readings, he told me to go immediately to the Emergency Room. Initially paused, and he told me that he would call for an ambulance. My husband got me and away we went. An atrial flutter diagnosis to A-Fib. I mostly keep likely would have had a stroke without his concern. So, yes, we as seniors, do depend upon our doctors, but I have learned to even more active in questioning.
Someone else's medical report was inserted in my file. My cardiologist/surgeon did not order a watchmen study. But one report appeared and is still in my records.
Be strong, you made very important comments.
You or others might need to find someone in Parliament who shares your views and maybe could raise awareness in public policy reform and calling for new best practices for doctors regarding pulse monitoring.
It's good news your Afib was detected before any stroke etc.
You or others might need to find someone in Parliament who shares your views and maybe could raise awareness in public policy reform and calling for new best practices for doctors regarding pulse monitoring
Good idea - it's likely some of them might have it!
Years ago when you went to the GP they would check your vitals as standard. I have Paroxysmal Afib. I thought I could feel it when I had an episode but a recent 14 day monitoring showed I had Afib 8 times but only felt it about 4. I think the GP testing pulse rate might pick up those with permanent AFib but not so much for Paroxysmal as it stops and starts, which is why it goes undiagnosed. My first symptom was actually a vibration feeling in my chest at night when I lay down but this doesn't show up in the UK as one of the symptoms.
That's the problem with PAF - you may not be in Afib when your doctor checks your pulse. I ask them to check mine every time I visit a doctor or nurse these days.
When I went to my GP he took my pulse and asked if I could share my irregular rate with the Surgery Staff 😂 fine with me, so I sat with all the Doctors and Nurses that day on duty taking my irregular pulse and what to look for.
My GP was an old GP and as soon as you went into his Consulting Room he used to take your wrist for your pulse, he discovered my AFib. Shame he has retired. Now my surgery tends to check pulses and BPs.
It's a shame there aren't more of the 'old school' around today Mac. One of the consultants I saw was a real d**k. He came in once and said 'You owl-ight'. I responded by saying 'Yes, you owl-ight'. He clocked it right away and announced he was discharging me! I couldn't even walk. The ambulance bought me back and the crew said I shouldn't have been discharged. I was back the next day after dialling 999 as I couldn't get out of the chair or stand up. The first consultant said there was nothing else he could do. Yes, there was - I had a different consultant this time who said we must get to the root cause of this. I took my hat off to him as he was so thorough and subjected me to every test under the sun and kept me in for a month. He found out what was wrong in about the third week, after putting a camera inside my lungs and taking a good look around. The first guy was young and the 2nd consultant was much older.
My brother had a stroke whilst driving which took his left periferal vision and hit two cars in the process. This was a result of undiagnosed paroxysmal afib. So sad and could have been avoided with medication if only it had been discovered 😔
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Did your ectopics die out after your ablation?
Afib Wearables, capturing data for your EP and a helpful tool.
Slow irregular heartbeat?
AFIB IS STRESSING ME OUT!!!
