Diagnosed with afib recently and then lvsd after echo with a 40 to 45 emission so classed as slight but after reading literature confused as to what came first? Also I have anxiety normally but it is now through the roof can't take medication for it as having such high doses of bisoprolol and digoxin my side effects are too much to bear as it is how are other people coping with the anxiety and can heart failure get worse rapidly or if the afib is controlled to reasonable bpm can it settle a bit? This has now hit me hard as I suppose others have experienced any ideas would be appreciated, I need to lose weight but the anxiety is driving me to comfort eat, a vicious cycle!
Afib or heart failure which came first? - Atrial Fibrillati...
Afib or heart failure which came first?
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Parya
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BobDVolunteer
If your rate is well controlled during AF events then the heart can and often does recover. You really must sort out your weight as this is the single most effective thing to do with arrhythmias so maybe seek help in that respect?
They can and often do go hand in hand , the good news is that in some cases the hf is reversible, of course each case is different , and if your not already under a EP then push for one , by controling the afib you are limiting one of the progressions of hf if it dose not revert, in my head that is what I'd be concentrating on, there are different drugs and doses etc do not be afraid to voice your issues , it is after all only you who knows how they make you feel,
Thanks for replying how can the hf be reversed in your opinion, I also don't know if it can get worse quickly as well, if the af is controlled and fluid on lungs etc. which I am taking 10mg of bisoprolol plus now been put on digoxin and taking 40mg furosemide all these need a chance to get a hold I know, what is an ep please? I had been referred to an echo by the original a and e consultant which picked up the heart failure but she has now passed me to gp who is sorting out all these meds, I offered to see a cardiologist privately but he doesn't seem to see the need so I really don't know what to insist on as he seems to be taking a lot of time at the moment with me and doing ECGs at the surgery as well.
Any help on this from anyone would be welcome
EP =Electrophysiologist, a cardiolgist who specialises in arrhythmias. We say they are the electricians to the cardiolgists plumber.
Ah thank you tried on Google but it just brought up a procedure! Goodness I am learning so much on this forum thanks everyone.
There’s lots to learn and knowledge is the key to deciding your treatment path in partnership with an EP.
Link to all the information sheets heartrhythmalliance.org/afa...
I suggest bookmarking or saving that link to favourites on your internet browser.
Just remember we’re all different and everyone will have a unique treatment plan.
Best wishes
Heart Failure is diagnosed by various methods, one of which is via Echocardiogram so if I ready your OP correctly your (ev meaning EF = ejection fraction?) 40-50%?
Heart Failure can be caused by AF OR AF may be caused by HF which in turn was caused by something else. Chicken and egg question which is why it needs full investigation by a specialist.
If a diagnosis of HF on the EF alone by an emergency doctor - I would be pushing to see a cardiologist simply to have someone sit down with you and explain everything clearly for you which may very well ease your mind.
My husband had HF diagnosed with EF of 33% (around 50-60% is normal/good) in 2018, AF treated his latest EF was 54%. He has some other underlying issues such as leaky valves but no cardiomyopathy (heart muscle weakness).
If you want to research - go to the AA site api.heartrhythmalliance.org...
Also know you can ring and talk to someone.
In your shoes I would find an EP or a cardiologist who also specialises in Arrythmia and book an appointment privately - you will get 30 mins to talk to a specialist which may do more to ease your mind than anything else.
HF is NOT a death sentence, it is a health alert. HF can be reversible but you will need a full work up to get a clear diagnosis and prognosis. Push for it.
I have learned from experience. Emergency dept doctors admitted that they know very little about arrhythmias, basically gave a magnesium drip and sent me home. with various drugs that did not help in my case. I also found my GP does not have experience in electrical systems of the heart, the plumbers only really know about arteries veins and pumps. The heart is an electrical organ and so the only specialist to go to is an electro physiologist who understands the system. I also recommend utube of Sanjay Gupta his items are very reassuring. He is not an electrical Dr but does his homework and is very down to earth. Yes, this forum is the best for sharing personal experiences .
Although I didn’t ask the question, this is such good advice and I’m going to find an EP in my area and book privately - it was a lightbulb moment reading your comment. I have no idea how to find an EP in my area - can anyone give me any pointers ?
Others previously created their own Post when trying to locate an EP, but you will need to include exactly where in "the south of England" you reside.
As an alternative, you could contact Admin by email or PM directly to inquire. I'm thinking Admin do have some kind of an EP list (?), but you wouldn't get the personal recommendations that replies to your own Post would provide.
Good luck.
South coast - Portsmouth and / or Southampton area.
Best not hijack Parya 's Post.
That sentence it is a health alert not a death sentence made my day and I am sure comforted other readers as well, am booking an EP as we speak, such good advice with all these lovely replies I have received I am feeling so much better and feel ready to move on now I know what I need to do.
10mg Bisoprolol is a hefty dose. Women tend to get worse side effects from beta blockers and weight gain is one of them. Many here find it well nigh impossible to lose weight on a beta blocker. Feeling rubbish because of medication side effects does nothing to diminish anxiety. Is your afib persistent or do the attacks come and go? As far as coping with the anxiety is concerned you need to do as much as possible to tackle it. Firstly get your vit D levels checked. Low vit D can exacerbate anxiety and depression both of which can provoke comfort eating. Secondly consider a magnesium supplement. Though this will probably not affect the afib it might help with the anxiety. I have found that since taking magnesium the anxiety attacks I used to have have disappeared. Some people here have even found the magnesium has improved their afib. Forget about losing weight for the moment as failure to acheive this will just be another source of anxiety. Concentrate on eating healthily, avoiding ultra processed food especially sugary things like biscuits , cakes and sweets. No drinks other than water , unsweetened tea or coffee (if you can tolerate the latter). Cut back to small portions of simple carbs such as rice,bread ,pasta and potatoes. Make sure you are getting enough protein and healthy fats. Avoid very sweet fruit like pineapple or mango . If your afib makes strenuous exercise uncomfortable try yoga or Tai chi as the meditative aspects of these will also help with the anxiety. Breathing exercises also can be very helpful.
Hi , if the hf is due to afib then treating the afib could stop progression and basically reverse the hf, I'm not doctor so please bear that in mind, but my understanding is lvsd can be both a cause of afib and also a result of afib, confusing I know , so I'd imagine more tests etc, would help them before they can give you better info, it's good that your doctors "on it" but for sure don't let them "ignore the afib" I'm sure they won't , make sure you have good rate control, I found digoxin to be quite good for rate control if sedentary but not so good with exersion, (thats just me though) it also helps the actual strength of the beat of the heart which aids your pumping , and with the fluid tablet , it sounds like they are doing what they should, I'm surprised they haven't sent it to cardiologist , but most places do have a hf specialist team that you will proberly be referred to,
Reading your post, well it was if I had written it myself, with the exception of when I developed A/F.......I now exactly when that was, it was when I was 52 and my Father got run over and killed and my Mother died 9 months later from breast cancer.........not a happy time, but you get through it, I got through it but it was what caused my P/A/F. Prior to this period my life had been very stressful, I had to relocate my parents, my in-laws and myself and hubby so sold a shop, bought two houses and relocated mother in law into sheltered housing. So A/F, now my 'friend' for almost 30 years, a real pain in the backside culminating in a stroke in 2000 and retirement from work. I have been drug dependant, had one ablation that failed, have a pacemaker and all was fairly well controlled, then I broke my hip playing table tennis two years ago, a year later diagnosed as in perm A/F and heart failure. Yes, it frightened the life out of me initially but after doing some research and discussion and medicated with the help of an extremely competent and knowledgeable cardiac nurse specialist, I am back to feeling hopeful, albeit I am no longer physically active as I was before the fall, therefore gaining weight but I have a life and continue to live and enjoy it. Heart failure isn't a death sentence, mine, like yours, is mild thankfully, it just means it's not performing as it should. Am I depressed, yes and no, at 80 I can actually reflect on the good life I have had in the main, my wonderful sons and equally wonderful grandchildren......I have seen them all grow, had the privilege of getting old and the spirit and determination to come through it all and for that I am very grateful, depressed yes, when I cant do the things I want to do....would love to go for a run!!!! So, my simple message is. enjoy the life you have been given, don't end up wasting your life worrying about your death, its just not worth the stress or energy, Depending on your physical ability, there are lots of groups and clubs out there you can enjoy, your local council should be able to provide you with details, or maybe learn to play chess or Majong, which my son has just taken up, go to art or pottery classes etc., anything that can interest you and get you out and mix with other people thereby enlarging your world and focus rather than becoming self absorbed and depressed. I'm sorry, I sound like an old bossy boots, I know not everyone has the ability or the mindset but I also know that just sitting indoors, reflecting on my woes, and i've had a few besides those mentioned, will not do any good at all, its as you are finding, depressing and losing your coping skills. As for the drugs, well I am on 10mg Bisoporal daily plus 2 x 150mg Profenanone together with diuretics for fluid overload and yes, and the Bisoporal slows me down a lot hence the weight gain. Formerly, I joined Slimming World and lost almost 5 stone but sadly Covid put paid to that!!!!! I try to eat healthily and have the odd treat but I don't lose any weight and of course cant do the exercise however recently found chair exercises to deal twice daily so going to have a go at that. I still manage to take the dog out although difficult without a stick but at least she doesn't pull.......handy having a Chihuahua lol and running around after her and my husband keeps me mentally stimulated.....or is that just mental lol. Keep your chin up x
That was such a comprehensive and very useful reply for the OP, Parya. It was so good to read. Well done for getting through what life has thrown at you. We've had our own tragedies, so know that as the years pass by, time helps, if only eventually, and then only a very little, never healing but allowing coping / distraction skills to improve. Still, life goes on and, yes, where would we be without children and grandchildren?
A close friend was diagnosed with HF last year and ended up on anti-depressant tablets to help the anxiety. They did help his sleep (mirtazapine) and he has brought his weight down to normal through utter determination. His tablets for the AF seem pretty standard: bisoprolol, losartan, digoxin, frusemide. Since then, his EF has improved a great deal, and is now pretty much near normal. He still can't walk far without SOB but he does have COPD. too, so that is likely the cause of that.
My advice to Parya is as others have given: absolutely to try your hardest to get your weight down to normal and to cut out all snacks between meals except fruit and nuts; to eat plenty of fruit, vegetables, nuts, seeds, pulses along with fish and meat. The UK leads the world in eating snacks, it seems: biscuits, crisps, coca-cola! Ask your GP to check for sleep apnoea, too as that goes hand in hand with AF and other ailments.
The anxiety will lighten of its own over time as the HF and AF improve with the tablets and you realise that many are dealing with this and coping well. I can't help it, but I am eternally dubious of complementary therapists having tried several and known two well enough to be sceptical. Hypnosis is itself not viewed as a scientific reality so far as I know but like all "talking therapies" it might well prove useful. The success for these alternative therapies is sometimes not much more than placebo and comes at a high cost. The good old NHS does offer more effective CBT type counselling - for free.
Steve
Hello Steve my husband is also dubious about the hypnotherapy but I have tried CBT in the past and it doesn't really do much for me but I need to break this anxiety comfort eating thing, I am getting meds and maybe treatment for all this but losing weight is one thing only I can do to help my heart so I have cut out all processed food and eating well but may need a bit of help when my anxiety disorder strikes.No unsuitable food allowed into the house!
Thanks for sharing
Hi Parya. I've written before that my wife's late aunt ran the most successful diet club in the area and put the big ones out of business locally. Her method was simple: eat less of what you do now, i.e. no fads or changes, just fewer calories from the same diet. She always said that all fad diets fail, and she had such a big local following. I am doing just this now and have been for several months, and it is working just as she would have predicted, slowly but surely. She used to say that extra weight crept on and is best lost by having it creep back off. It makes sense to me.
Steve
What a great post Opal. Thank you. 🥰
You're welcome. difficult to know what to share, I have had a very long and varied life, including cancers, but travelled the World, had a career whilst raising a family so nothing to complain about really BUT I do know how frightening life can be and some seem to have more than their fair share of troubles/set backs so always try to be upbeat and encouraging where I can. If I can get through it anyone can lol but we all need a little help sometimes. Best wishes x
❤️
Oh opal thanks for sharing all that and although it have had trauma and mental health problems all my life for you to reach out like that means a lot you are amazing, I have always tried to help myself and others and you are not a bossy boots one snippet of information sometimes can help someone a lot, having mental health problems made me determined when I could to have some kind of life, I attend aquarobics 3 times per week plus swim as this really helps my anxiety , I attend different groups through our local u3a which runs 30 different groups so something for everyone! Art is my favourite but when the mental health demon strikes I pause and then go back to it all, plus travel is what we love to do, so when this struck it knocked everything sideways but determined to get back to my life and bonus is travel insurance not bothered much at all about afib and hf!I took have lovely sons and grandchildren and can honestly say have wanted a Chihuahua for a long time but we travel too much!
Love and hugs
What a great reply Parya and from what you have written I can see that, despite what's going on you, are making a good hand of it, amazed at what you are doing and of course envious of the fact that you are still enjoying aerobics and different groups and u3a too together with your travelling. You have a good life, so well worth living, get over this glitch, learn how to live with it and go forwards, do all the things you want to do, let nothing stand in your way. You've got this my friend huggggs
Jan 24, AF diagnosed. Echo late Jan EF 28% HF added to diagnosis. Lots of drugs, ablation March .Now in NSR. Stop digoxin.Echo May, EF up to 50%, stop dapaglifozin. Low normal, just out of HF.
Follow up appt Aug. Echo, EF 57%. Bisoprolol stopped. Now on 2mg Candersartan and Edoxaban. Pretty much back to normal but have regular ectopic beats which I try to ignore.
So yes controlling AF can reverse HF and give you your life back. I'm a fairly fit and active 63 year old walking 12 000, steps/5+ miles a day.
Wow this is where I want to be fingers crossed!Something to aim for! Really appreciate the information.
Hi Parya I am afraid things like 'slimming world ' are not the answer to weight loss, losing weight and keeping it off takes a new lifestyle .
I lost a stone in weeks with lifestyle changes following my diagnosis of AF and maintained the wight loss. Things that helped...
having nothing to eat or drink between meals except water,
having my main meal at lunch time so I was not sitting around after it,
eating small meals ,
eating slowly ,
no alcohol ,
avoid processed foods.
having nothing to eat or drink after 6pm (except water) till breakfast time ( a form of daily fasting) .
I have jumbo oats made with water for breakfast with some milk and mixed seeds, that keeps me feeling full till lunch time.
I am practically a vegetarian now and have grown to love healthy food, lunch today is spinach and tender stem broccoli lasagne and roasted /peppers/shallots/mushrooms. I make the béchamel sauce with olive oil not butter so it is healthier and I use parmesan and very strong cheese on the top of the lasagne so I only need to use a little .
The Heart UK website has some good healthy recipes .
I used to get very anxious when I went into AF and had awful symptoms of exhaustion, shaking and breathlessness. I learnt to cope with the anxiety and breathlessness with the help of breathing exercises (there are lots online) and distraction the radio mostly. I also walked my dog very slowly on shaking legs doing my breathing technique trying to take in the things around me.
My ejection fraction was 45 last time I had an echo in the spring , I understand that is just above HF and can be improved on with excercise. Unfortunately I have severe osteoarthritis in both hips and my spine and standing/walking are now difficult but I manage to walk a mile a day with a stick and I do daily excercise, I am determined to get my EF higher.
Hello, I have been wondering about the slimming world too as my fluid is all over the place so will skew the readings, I have too say my basic diet is very good full of nutrients and good stuff no processed foods there BUT a bit of honesty here it is the cake ,ice cream and biscuits on top! These are the things I turn to when anxious, so this is what I need to sort out.You have done so well I went on to the free headspace section last night it was quite good, breathing exercises for 10 minutes so will keep going with that and see if it helps.
Thank you for all your valuable advice.
Hi Parya you say 'it is the cake ,ice cream and biscuits on top' when do you eat these things .
It helps not to have them in the house removing temptation and I used to find it helpful to every morning prepare a little mug of water containing thin sticks of celery and carrot for those moments when 'I really must eat something '. Now my tummy is educated not to need to snack.
AFib can make heart failure worse if you may have already heart failure. Keeping AF well controlled will keep the heart healthy. Anxiety is awful, especially after being first diagnosed, but that will pass. Follow your doctor's order and make yourself as healthy as possible. This helps with the anxiety. Take control of your health. I can't say it enough, be proactive about your health.
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