Tips for sleeping

[tom0985]

Hi, I have PAF and it appears my AF is often triggered while i am sleeping. From what i can make out, it could be that i often sleep with my mouth closed and aren't neccesarily breating in as much as normal during the daytime which im sure is likely common when sleeping. However i'm wondering if anyone else has experienced this and any tips to help maintain good breathoing while asleep? Thank you

[BobD Volunteer]

Try Breathrite nasal plasters?

[Cavalierrubie in reply to BobD]

I have never heard of them. What exactly do they do Bob? Thanks.

[BobD Volunteer in reply to Cavalierrubie]

They stick on the outside of your nose and hold your nostrils open. Very popular with some sportsmen and racing drivers a few years ago

[Cavalierrubie in reply to BobD]

That’s very interesting and good to know. They must be very helpful. Thank you.

[secondtry in reply to Cavalierrubie]

I've used them for many years after BobD's recommendation. Can't be 100% sure they help but seems logical to me if your nasal passages aren't always clear and importantly there is no downside issues.

I would also check out James Nestor & Patrick Mceown on YouTube. You will find it is good to sleep with your mouth closed.

I have found no computer, TV, gadgets or national news after 5pm with a relaxing schedule before bed including a milky drink has been surprisingly good for me. Previously I thought it is unlikely to be relevant.

I would also recommend a 48hr heart monitor. I have just had one and awaiting a telephone consultation/report from my cardiologist next week. It revealed what looks like useful info.

Lastly, I have found Ancient Minerals Magnesium lotion with melatonin helps but I have paused this as there may be issues over regular use of melatonin albeit at a low level.

[Desanthony in reply to BobD]

These are really helpful both myself and an old neighbour use these.

[tom0985 in reply to BobD]

Thanks Bob - will give these a try

[pottypete1 in reply to BobD]

Yep I use them every night.

[Cavalierrubie]

Hi, l don’t really have any tips on breathing but l don’t have large meals or eat anything for 3/4 hours before going to bed, which can be a trigger. Also, l lay on my right side. Laying on the left side, for too long, can give me palpitations and can restrict my heart from pressure on that side. Perhaps doing the deep breathing exercises in the daytime might help. Have you been checked for sleep apnea?

[tom0985 in reply to Cavalierrubie]

Thank you - all good suggestions. Not been checked for sleep apnea

[FraserB]

Have you had a sleep apnea test? You can still get a sleep apnea test even if you do not have any throat obstructions or snoring. Shallow breathing in itself can be tested to see if your oxygen level saturation may dip low when asleep which when oxygen levels dip low can cause periodic episodes of AF and waking up. The test supplies a pulse oximeter device that checks to see how much oxygen your blood is carrying.

Other than that, watch your body position first falling asleep. Sleeping on your right side and not hunching chest over while on side, also using devices already recommended Breathrite.

[tom0985 in reply to FraserB]

is it the doctor or cardiologist to go to for sleep apnea test? Thank you

[Cavalierrubie in reply to tom0985]

You see your GP for sleep apnea.

[FraserB in reply to tom0985]

Your doctor would be the quickest way in getting a home sleep test first. A respirologist will go over the results. Though the test mostly focuses on obstruction in breathing it will also give oxygen levels with the pulse oximeter. If the home sleep test does not provide enough results especially with shallow breathing only you may need a higher level test called a polysomnogram. It records all details: brain waves, the oxygen level in your blood, and your heart rate, breathing during sleep. The home sleep test would be the easiest and fastest for quick results.

[108cat]

I think either the GP or cardiologist can refer you to a sleep apnoea clinic to be tested, f they think it likely to be the trigger for your AF.

The York Cardiologist Dr Sanjay Guptas talks about two things that might be relevant for you in his youtube videos. Firstly the influence of the Vagal nerve on AF and secondly that there are two types of AF one being night time (which I have) and the other can happen anytime mostly in the daytime. According to Dr Gupta the night time AF tends to be between 9pm and 9am.

This has always been the case for me. My cardiolgist calls it the 'vagal type' of AF, if you have a naturally low resting HR, then at night ectopic beats can slip in between the normal beats to confuse and trigger AF.

Of course this will not be relevant if your trigger is sleep apnoea.

[Bagrat in reply to 108cat]

My longer episodes have all been at night, but none since 2013 but short "dos" are during the day. I guess that's mixed AF!!😅

[Izzle]

I usually associate your type of comment with low blood oxygen. I have a Garmin mid-range watch which records that plus my pulse and you can review things at anytime later to find out trend. It's model is Venu (an early model which they've upgraded but the old versions are still around and a little cheaper) . If you had a similar watch at least you'd be dealing with facts not hunches.

Good luck.

[Kaz747]

I too would look at a sleep test. There are two types of sleep apnea - Obstructive Sleep Apnea and Central Sleep Apnea.

I was sleeping well and never had any of the usual sleep apnea signs but my EP sent me for a test anyway. Most of my sleep was fine but when I went into REM I had a number of apneas and my oxygen level dropped too low. The sleep specialist said that if I didn’t have arrhythmias he wouldn’t necessarily recommend treatment but because I did have heart issues I should use a CPAP which I’ve been doing now for 5 years (with a little nasal cushion mask).

My EP told me at the time about a study that had been done with sheep at an Australian university. When they had a lot of oxygen they were fine but when they started pumping in carbon dioxide and their oxygen levels dropped they went into AF. When they pumped in oxygen again they came out of it.

[gbn_]

Hi tom0985. Those nasal strips really help me. Just make sure you wash the nose area where it's placed to remove any skin oils and such. It will stay on better. Just be careful with peeling them off, splash it a bit with some warm water first. There are quite a few different brands, I always use the extra strength kind, they open up the area better for me. I tend to use them more during the fall and winter months when the air is a bit more dry, but they can be used anytime, especially if you have a cold. As with sleeping, I find at least for me, if I sleep propped up a bit, ( I actually sleep in a reclining position), it helps me to sleep better.

[Bagrat]

My husband was a terrible snorer for years and after being in permanent AF I persuaded him to be tested, although he had no daytime symptoms. On a lighter note undiagnosed sleep apnoea with snoring can be life threatening. When in the RAF on detachment the guy with whom he was sharing a room threw the drawer from a chest of drawers at him. I totally understand this response!

[AfibSufferer]

As an alternative to Breathrite nasal plasters (which I find stick too aggressively to my skin) I use Airmax Nasal Dilators.

[Sixtychick]

I found sleeping on my left side could bring my AFib on, so I try not to.

[JOY2THEWORLD49]

Hi

Sounds like you have Sleep Apnea. Not enough oxygen. Regardless of mouth open or shut. Ask to be referred to the Heart Specialist. He can test you.

cherio jOY. 75. (NZ)

[JillyBeau]

It could be overheating, low blood sugar, dehydration or you may have sleep apnea. Try to drink water through the night and notice if it happens more when in a particular sleeping pattern. Sleep as upright as possible to ease breathing. Notice what you have eaten that day - even the healthy foods can trigger it; in my case most fruit vegetables which contain salicylates, the same compound that makes Aspirin. Aspirin can also be a trigger. Also, any chemicals you have used that day: shampoos, cleaning products, etc

[JOY2THEWORLD49]

HiCheck your meds by Heart monitor from hospital.

Metoprolol gave me pauses on low H.Rate Night 47bpm avg. Day H/Rate couldn't exert 186bpm.

It is my banned list of meds.

cheerio jOY

[Jeffarmst]

I have nightime a/f, ( nocturnal arrhythmia ). It started about 2 years ago where I would wake up suddenly with a pounding heartbeat and a blood pressure of 220/100. When I called out the ambulance everything was ok by the time they arrived. Ended up in hospital, having a triple heart bypass.All back to normal for 3 months then started again. Had a test for sleep apnoea and now have a cpap machine with nasal mask and mouth shield, to keep my mouth closed, as I have found that my sleep apnoea is due to me being a mouth breather, which causes me to snore when asleep, making my oxygen levels drop too low, then getting an increasing heart rate / blood pressure.

I still have a couple of events per hour, as they are called, but am taking 2.5mg of bisoprolol and ramipril to keep my heart rate under control.

I have taught myself to breathe in and out through my nose through out the day as mouth breathing causes all sorts of ailments, such as sleep apnoea, chest infections, mis aligned teeth, bad breath.

So thats it.

Just thought I would add my bit, so to speak.

[Qualipop]

Have you been tested for sleep apnoea?

[tom0985 in reply to Qualipop]

No

[Qualipop in reply to tom0985]

Might be an idea to see what your GP thinks.

[fibnum]

For me, relieving trapped gas and breathing well are the keys to fending off Afib.

There is still an inevitability to it's eventuality, but those measures can postpone it, many times.

I find sleeping with my right cheek on the pillow with my chin up a bit and body turned slightly to the right to be successful at avoiding Afib inducing sleep apnea. I also eat carefully and take measures (exercise, antacids and drinking warm water) to reduce stomach gas before going to bed.

[Kubus]

Hi Tom, I have A F and Atrial Tachycardia and have had the same trouble as you. I've even had it recorded on a holter monitor. Believe it or not, it just disappeared after my last cardiac ablation. I agree with the other posts that the nose strips help open the nostrils and you could ask the GP to check if there are any obstructions in your nostrils like polyps or enlarged nasal turbinates both of which can be addressed medically or operated on. I did have enlarged nasal turbinates which were operated on long before I developed AF. Sleeping on the right side is more comfortable. I mentioned the problem to my EP nurse but she could not give an answer as to why the AF was occuring at night, but said that a lot of heart rhythm patients suffer with this. A well ventilated room and possibly a humidifier might make you more comfortable too. Do try to get a 24 hour or longer holter monitor which might give a more specific answer as to what is occuring. Best of luck