extremely symptomatic

[wbekim]

can anyone advise I have just started in AFib and cannot tolerate the fluttering in my chest which has now been constant for over 24 hours pulse has dropped to below 100 but feel so sick and anxious about butterflies in chest and breathing discomfort which goes with it can these symptoms continue indefinitely and not be of concern

[mav7]

fluttering in my chest breathing discomfort

Depending on severity of breathing discomfort, would be best to go to A&E. Or if available a call to a nurse or GP to relieve your anxiety and determine treatment.

If I recall, your previous posts indicate you frequently have palpitations. Are you prescribed medications ?

[wbekim in reply to mav7]

Bisoprolol edoxaban it’s the fact flutters have been constant don’t remember previous AFib lasting so long

[mav7 in reply to wbekim]

Continue to monitor your heart rate and blood pressure, take medications, and as mentioned go to A&E if needed. Best to You !

If heart rate is below 100 that is considered normal but breathing properly is the key.

[wbekim in reply to mav7]

I think the breathing may be due to anxiety it’s the constant flutter with no let up which is worrying me but I have been told that is of no particular relevance and can last until AFib reverts to normal does that make sense

[JOY2THEWORLD49 in reply to wbekim]

Hi

Are you Asthmatic? If so Metoprolol / Bisoprolol etc not for you. Metoprolol was banned 186 H/Rate Day with pauses at night. Bisoprolol 156 H/Rate Day no pauses.

I take CCB Diltiazem 120 am for heart rate control which extends over day

BB Bisoprolol 2.5mg pm for BP control

110mg PRADAXA x twice day my anti-co agulant.

cheri JOY. 75. (NZ)

[opal11uk]

24 hours is too long to leave this, particularly with breathlessness etc., so seek medical guidance and advice. Good luck x

[secondtry]

I am now getting fluttering intermittently and find humming loudly stops it in most cases.

[wbekim in reply to secondtry]

No amount of humming stops mine they scare me to death and consume my attention

[Thomas45]

It would be useful to know more about you. You say you have just started in AF, but in a post to the Heart Rhythm Disorders Support discussion board you say you have had AF type problems for 40 years.We can help you better from our knowledge and own experience, if you tell us more of your AF experience. Have you seen a cardiologist and / or an electrophysiologist? What has been tried in the past? When did you last discuss your AF burden with your GP?

[wbekim in reply to Thomas45]

Thomas long story had panics as teenager been anxious ever since now 65 intermittent ectopics etc to age of about 50 first AFib then possibly 5 or 6 since then but more plagued with ectopics and anxiety tried various medications including verapamil now on bisoprolol have managed to excercise to various degrees on holidays at moment and AFib kicks in out of nowhere

[Thomas45 in reply to wbekim]

I've had AF on and off for 30 years, the last 7 in persistent, AF, 24/7, which I agree is permanent. It is now asymptomatic , so causes no problems. I respect it's there so take a daily anticoagulant, and try not to exacerbate it. I've never knowingly had flutters. I have other ailments, including asthma, which is controlled most of the time by inhalers. The most annoying is drop foot of my right foot, but while I now cannot drive, I can walk with an orthotic which fits under the insole and up around my shin. I've trained my brain to pick that leg up from my knee as my foot doesn't work.Having seen what his anxiety caused to my father, I don't have any anxiety.

On this occasion, as I have never had what you have I'm sorry that I can't help, but there will be others who can.

[Alphakiwi]

Over a year continuous at least. Keep busy. All the best Colin

[wbekim in reply to Alphakiwi]

You have had the fluttering in your chest constantly for 12 months with no let up and you can feel them all

[Alphakiwi in reply to wbekim]

Oh yes. I used to say, The rat is back, because that is what it feels like. It is very tiring and so it is important to try and keep fittness The rat used to come and go but now hes more permanent . You see fortunately it quietens down at certain times.. Night time is not nice.I may be going fore Pace and ablate as i have really scraped the bottom of the barrel regards choices. If intolerant of meds go for PIP. Im not on anything but anticoagulant at mo

The list of meds ive had is long and no t only not working but give a miriad of effects. Everyone is different.

Regards Colin

[Ppiman]

My recent posts have been about much the same. I had just what you describe much of yesterday. Late afternoons and evenings are perhaps the worst times for me with fluttering, bumping and thumping - all stressful and with nothing that can be done to stop it.

If it will help your worries, I can tell you that these ectopic beats, as they are called, all arise from the same electrically mis-conducting area in the upper floor of the heart as your AF - the atrium. This is why, essentially, they are "safe" (or "benign" as doctors say). This only means that, unlike AF itself (when the whole atrium quivers chaotically) that the ectopic beats will not lead to any blood clots forming. Other than that, the difference from AF is likely slight, and, well - for me the feelings are similar if not worse, both mentally and physically.

But, with the knowledge that the wrong beats really will not cause long term harm, and arise in the safest of all places in the heart, I feel they are slowly moving more to the back of my mind where, although they cannot be ignored, recognising that they do no harm is helping me cope better. You surely will soon be able, for the goal of being able to live a better life each day, do the same.

Steve

[wbekim in reply to Ppiman]

Steve I have AFib at moment not ectopics and fluttering is constant not worse at certain times and I assume this is the fibrillation of the heart of which I worry about because of how long it is lasting

[Ppiman in reply to wbekim]

What is your average heart rate at present? That is far more important to your health. In general, AF (just like frequent atrial ectopic beats), can make the sufferer feel as if the end is nigh (it's called a feeling of "impending doom") but, really, there will never be any "doom" as that is a natural effect, in many people, of the mind. If the resting heart rate is over 100bpm, many are told to take an extra beta blocker to try to calm it, while others are given something like flecainide as a "pill in the pocket" to take when an episode won't stop quickly. You need your doctor to help on this. Some are given a "what to do when it happens" set of instructions, although I never have been.

Technically, I have been told that when not beating as it should, each "missed beat" sends a mini shock wave of reduced blood pressure along the main arteries and their associated nerves to the brain where it registers as from "whoops" to "panic" depending on the individual! Some cope and can learn to disregard this, others struggle to do that. I hope I am on my way to coping better. It seems that way yesterday and today. I can only hope. You will need to reach that stage, too. It is fear that affects us more than the slightly reduced heart output, in the vast majority of cases.

I don't know about you but along with the fluttering, I also get discomfort under the left ribs and in my sternum and, sometimes, in my back. This can feel like a gastric rather than a cardiac issue.

If you are taking an anticoagulant ("blood thinner"), then I have been told that the AF is very unlikely to cause long-term harm. My elderly friend has had permanent AF for very many years and is a reasonably healthy 90-year-old. As I say, what needs to be controlled is the resting heart rate and, in the case of my friend, that is always well below 100bpm. A persistent level above that is called tachycardia and that can temporarily weaken the left ventricle and valve, which it did in me. Just how long is "too long" to allow tachycardia to continue is likely unknown and will vary between sufferers as it's the output from the ventricles to the major organs (lung, brain and kidney) that matters most.

I only once went to hospital with mine when the rate was 180-220bpm for a morning and, as it was soon after my ablation for atrial flutter, my nerves got the better of me completely and panic set in. In the event, with an emergency cardioversion on the cards, 5mg bisoprolol stopped the AF and the high rate and I was home in a few hours none the worse for it, except mentally drained.

I really do wish you well, and hope that the AF resolves itself soon. It nearly always does as the atrium has its own "switch off" mechanism that comes in at some point. I absolutely know how you are feeling and you have my sympathies.

If you haven't got one already, I would invest in something like an Apple Watch. There are also rather less convenient home ECG devices, too - many buy a Kardia, while I have a Wellue with its wonderful AI capabilities. As a gadget person, much to my wife's dismay, I just also got hold of a new 2/6-lead device from a company called Contec, that is proving to be rather excellent. I attach a graph from it from a day or two ago showing a rather calmer period!

Steve

Contec ECG showing arrhythmia.

[Ppiman in reply to Ppiman]

Here's also a Contec ECG from last night when the symptoms were constant.

Contec ECG showing arrhythmia.

[DrBook in reply to Ppiman]

Hi, Steve. I have a question regarding the following two statements you made above: "If you are taking an anticoagulant ("blood thinner"), then I have been told that the AF is very unlikely to cause long-term harm . . . As I say, what needs to be controlled is the resting heart rate". Is it your understanding that this means Afib won't damage the heart if one is on a blood thinner and the resting heart rate is controlled even if the arrhythmia isn't controlled?

As one who takes an anticoagulant with persistent asymptomatic rate-controlled Afib I've often wondered if not treating the arrhythmia may eventually lead to symptomatic Afib where treatment would be indicated but unlikely to be successful because I waited too long. To be painfully honest, this dilemma has caused more angst and stress than my Afib.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Brian

[Ppiman in reply to DrBook]

Hi Brian - my experience of two friends, and from reading as deeply as I can around the subject is that you will be fine as you are. The symptoms, as I understand it, mostly arise either from the rate being too high or when the ventricles have been in some other way caused to be inefficient.

I am sure this is only a general statement that can't be universally applied, and I have read of someone here who suffers because of atrial rather than ventricular problems (i.e. the AF has led to an enlarged left atrium). In general, though, to my knowledge, persistent AF with good rate control is something we can live with. I have read often, too, that when a person moves from PAF to persistent AF, it can be easier to cope with if the rate is in the normal range. My elderly friend (now 90) with permanent AF has a pulse in the 80s, generally, and is amazingly well with it.

Steve

[DrBook in reply to Ppiman]

Hi, Steve. I responded to your message using the private chat feature.

Brian

[Ericmax in reply to Ppiman]

Nitro stops mine almost instantly.

[Ppiman in reply to Ericmax]

Is that also for angina? My sister in law has that and it is instant.

Steve

[Ericmax in reply to Ppiman]

👍

[Sixtychick]

I was told by my Consultant that if my AFib went on longer than 12 hours, to go to A&E. My AFib is very symtomatic too .My heart rate and blood pressure soar and they like to keep an eye on me and try to stop it. I am usually given a drip and some sort of medication and it always stopped it. By doing this, I’ve only had AFib about a dozen times over the 10 years I’ve had it and an ablation is more successful then. Hopefully, mine will be. I had my ablation last September, so far so good. I know a lot of people on here, just stay at home and sit it out, but I was told, it’s better to get it stopped and not let it go on for hours and hours. When I went into A&E, I was always given an ECG within a short time and when they saw it, I was always taken through to the Majors dept straight away. This is Leicester Royal Infirmary. They’ve always been good with me and reassured me I wasn’t wasting their time and it was the best thing to do.

[wbekim in reply to Sixtychick]

My situation is compounded because I am in Portugal would probably have gone to hospital in uk but have been told in the past sometimes better to ride it out at home as some people have permanent AFib which I assumes means their hearts are constantly fluttering

[Sixtychick in reply to wbekim]

I suppose we’re all given different advice. It might be inconvenient to have to go into A&E, but I’d rather stop it as soon as I can. It’s horrible.Good luck to you.

[marcyh]

Any chest pain? Shortness of breath with possibility of passing out? My cardiologist says I am "severely symptomatic" because I can't walk without help and I'm at risk of passing out.

[opal11uk]

24 hours is a long time, if it was me I would be seeking medical advice.

[wbekim in reply to opal11uk]

I have been told episodes can last weeks or months and as long as hr is under 110 not an emergency

[opal11uk in reply to wbekim]

I would seek medical advice if I was in A/F for 12 hours or more, the damned condition gave me a stroke in 2000, I was in A/F for approx. 15 hours and that was the consequence, of course if you want to wait then thats up to you, good luck.

[wbekim in reply to opal11uk]

How do people cope with permanent afib

[opal11uk in reply to wbekim]

We find and develop coping mechanisms, we come to accept our lot and then strive to live with it, accepting that there isn't a lot we can do about it but follow guidance given by our medics. When I had breast cancer my husband said its no good worrying about something over which you have no control, and he was right, all the worrying in the World won't help cure it all it does is to make you stressed and with our condition that makes it a darn sight worse, A/F thrives on stress so, look at what you can do about it, steps you can take to alleviate your specific symptoms and try to come to terms with it. After my little lot and a stroke, I continued to play sport, Badminton/Table Tennis, Circuit Training etc.etc., and carried on for as long as I could in spite of A/F, after the Pacemaker etc., it really was the broken hip that did it for me but I can accept that at 80, i've had a good life and done all the things I wanted to do, I certainly wouldn't let A/F stop me having a good life and neither should you.

[listerines]

I feel your pain with the flutters as I seem to have a sensitive heart that feels every skip, palpitation, hiccup, ectopic. Can be maddeningly distracting and anxiety producing when affecting homeostasis. I have found some relief in trying to understand my condition and getting health professionals to support me in an ongoing care plan.

You don't mention in your above post, but could you seek health professional advice re: additional medications to reduce AFib burden (anti-arrthymics) in the short to medium term and perhaps ablation techniques to settle heart on a longer term basis (are other surgical options as well but you may not be a candidate for these options yet).

Hoping things have stabilized a bit for you - keep safe