I was looking at my latest monitor results
I got 182 max a average of 96 Af for 15 of the 24 hours
Anyway it got me thinking what rate is dangerous or what length of time Is dangerous
I am on beta blocker and flecainde but was at the time of the monitor results
Is the heart like a muscle working out when it’s a high rate or can it be worn out or can it just snap instantly
even if your echo produced good results pretty much
I used to do a lot of walking around our hilly coastline. Many years ago a friend with me asked my GP at what rate should help be called for if out and AF strikes. He said at 130bpm. Take note this was for when walking up and down hills not for when at home.If an extra few heart beats get recorded on a monitor that can make your heart rate look artificially high. So I think if your 182 heart rate lasted longer than 5 or 10 minutes then that may be of more interest to the medical professionals. Even people with normal hearts can sometimes have a few odd beats.
Just my humble opinion.
Jean
Same thinking as me
Thing is I saw the cardio doctor for the results two weeks ago gave me a ecg said I wasn’t in AF that day but put me on the waiting list for Ablation
I left and driving home I thought he didn’t seem that concerned about the monitor results yet I had 5 days in hospital 2022 as it was 130 to 180 and couldn’t be let out to it was 100
I guess they can’t do much as it comes and goes
As I pointed out to someone else two days ago, standard home HR monitors cannot give an accurate reading of a fibrillating heart. The algorithm needs a regular pulse to count.
What is a "standard" heart rate monitor?
I'm sure you know this already, but I refer, of course, to personal use (home) monitors versus clinical grade (hospital) monitors.
Clearly difference between home and hospital grade devices but there's a diverse range of "home" devices with varying capabilities and technology.I struggle to understand how "home" devices like KardiaMobile 6L can do accurate enough ECG traces for doctors to review and have algorythms that can reasonably reliably detect AF but supposedly not be able to count HR reasonably accurately in the process.
My cardiologist recommended that I get a Kardia single lead for the specific purpose of checking my heart rate while in A.F.
I regularly had heart rates of 150-180 for long periods of time - 2-3 days - when AF struck and occasionally higher. To be honest it depended upon the doctor I spoke to - one wanted me in hospital if it went over 130 for more than 3-4 hours whilst the GP I had most contact with knew me and was a cardiologist and wasn’t particularly worried (I was anticoagulants!) UNLESS I felt ill, had chest pain, felt clammy or had syncope in which case I was to call for ambulance immediately.
When you are in AF for long periods of time at high heart rates it is obviously not good for the heart and there is concern for damage. At the very least you will take days to recover. I would be concerned if resting HR was consistently over 150, in AF it is always going to be variable which is why the only HR measurement I would trust is the Kardia because it will take an average. So you might see 180 on the monitor but the average might be 90-120.
My understanding is that it is consistent very high heart rate which is very dangerous and could be life threatening and requires emergency treatment but ask your doctor to give you guidelines for you as we are all different.
Hubby had a stroke when his AF had reached 160 plus . He hadn’t been put on blood thinners after his ablation five years previous for some reason
Just shows how different things are for all of us
Sorry to hear that. I came off anticoagulants after 12 months free of AF and had a TIA so lesson learned. Wisdom today says if you have a a high enough risk score you are on anticoagulants for life, regardless of whether or not you have ablation.
The stroke risk is more about the irregular rhythm than the purely the HR was my understanding. My TIA came out of the blue, no tachycardia and I wasn’t in AF or had high BP or any other heart dysfunction at the time.
Only a sustained rate of tachycardia over 100bpm can eventually weaken the muscle of the ventricles or damage the valves - over weeks, I gather. (I doubt it's known when this would happen as it will surely be an individual matter). The heart is certainly designed to go quickly, even 180bpm, but when it does so for no reason, it does so inefficiently. This means you might feel woozy, breathless or whatever, and certainly stressed.
The racing in itself won't lead to anything else, if the heart is otherwise healthy, but a beta blocker or similar is needed to stop it doing it too often and for too long, for no reason. The racing atria, upstairs, are different and can cause thrombi to form in the atrial appendage; hence the need for anticoagulants.
Steve
My understanding is that when in AF it’s only the average that matters really. Looking at BPM instantaneously on devices will be jumping about all the time.
For example 3 beats in a second can read as 180BPM and then you may not get a beat for 2 seconds which can give 30BPM. An ex nurse replied to me previously and said the official way to take readings in AF is to count the beats in the full 60 seconds but you can cheat and do them in 15 or 30 and multiply 4 or 2 to get a rough idea.
I believe keeping the average under 100 is what is referred to as Controlled AF, that’s rate controlled of course. I know some will say they can’t always get to that level of control.
Hope my thoughts are helpful.
I quite agree about checking pulse over 60 seconds. I don't trust the Omron at all. I set the timer on my mobile for 1 minute and 15 seconds. So the 15 seconds are to find the radial pulse and connect with it. Then start counting at 60, stop as soon as the timer calls time! Just done it - 67 bpm.But very difficult for fast AF I know.
When I was nursing and taking "normal" pulses at the wrist, if a pulse was only taken for 15 secs you got a sense of the pulse, regular, irregular, consistent strength ( or some beats stronger than others) BUT to get the same rate as taking it for a whole minute you usually needed to subtract 4. In AF that would be a greater number of course and has already been said the variation over a minute because of irregular beats and gaps would make it very unreliable.The number of ventricular beats that make it through to be felt at wrist is also variable.
Thanks Bagrat , I think it was you that told me that before. I was going to say that not all beats are felt in the radial pulse and I believe a number of people can’t feel their pulse at all in the wrist.
The variable amount of beats making it to the wrist pulse in AF is another reason the wearable device readings are quite unreliable when in AF but still useful to indicate an irregular heart rate. That’s an opinion from my experience.
My first ever AF event was recorded by the paramedics off the ambulance as peaking to 280bpm. I was in shock and panic mode, and believed that I was dying at the time. Once they calmed me down the rate came down to 180 - 190 range, which is what I usually find when my AF strikes (I have an old 2 lead KardiaMobile now on it's third battery).
I've had AF at 145 - 160 last for as much as 18 hours, while lying around on hospital trolleys and their monitors and on a metoprolol drip. No one has suggested that this will damage my heart unless it were to continue for very much longer (weeks, months?).
I had HR 175bpm on one occasion with my PAF. Following cardioversion it got stuck on 110 and remained that way for weeks leading up to my second ablation. Although toxic, Amiodarone would probably fix it but, consultant only offered that as a 6 month maximum solution prior to first and for the 3 months prior to second ablation. Hope you get your ablation date soon. Best wishes.
Hi
Avge of below 100 is controlled.
My avge was 185 day on Metropolol uncontrolled. I couldn't exert myself without breathlessness.
Sweating and stopping exertion were side effects.
I spent 1 year 6 months with average 185, then changed to bisoprolol with average 156. Still not controlled.
It was CCB Diltiazem that controlled my rapid and persistent AF.
I've now been on Diltiazem 120mg AM and PM Bisoprolol 2.5mg for BP 2 years 3 months.
Now at 60s Day H/Rate I am on the right track.
Whatever the exertion rate your heart should return to normal within a certain time. Not sure what. Perhaps you need a stress test to test you.
cheri JOY. 75. (NZ)
With your heart rate that high what advice was you given about going to A and E as others on the topic are advised to go to hospital but how does that work for you with it being constantly high
Hi
I went to Drs asking them to change me off Metoprolol. One Dr said stop it. Chemist said no!
Eventually I asked for a Heart Specialist. I had the 24-hr H/Monitor, ECH, ECG. She changed me to Bisoprolol but 154 still not controlling.
Sent to private H/Specialist who introduced CCB Diltiazem.
I got a St John home alarm a year later. Only rung it for 2 falls and not going to hospital. I have my mini schnauzer.
Hospital was adamant that Metoprolol was best!
Slept a lot and couldn't exert myself. I had a carer and she walked around the block once a week.
I was green as.
High blood pressure was more highlit. Bisoprolol was reducing my BP.
One day I will write a story as a complain. My have Disabilities Complaints. Only a verbal apology given.
Thanx for your concern. JOY
Sounds awful care you have had at times and I thought mine was poor
you are on a blood thinner? It is dangerous if it lasts for more than 5 hours and you are not taking an anticoagulant. Please see a post by joolzj entitled bisprolol bananas and avocados-she wrote it six days ago go to the last post she wrote at the end of it.
The Gp called an ambulance on me because my hr was over 150 bpm. She wouldn’t let me drive to hospital. I had sustained hr of over 150 for 44 hours. The doctor was horrified I hadn’t come in sooner. She said my heart would be worn out and I could go into heart failure or have a stroke. I don’t know about the failure thing but the stroke was a real possibility …
They took me off the blood thinner which I questioned but told me my score was low stroke risk
I urge you to read through that post. She had a stroke after writing it…
It’s strange as there seems many views in what rate what length of time is the danger area
Yes there are but please read that post..
seems we have been advised very differently going by the various answers on the topic
"we have been advised very differently"Our individual circumstances vary, so an element of the differing advice will be because of that. For example, a 60 y.o. has a theoretical maximum HR 20 beats higher than an 80 y.o. Other factors could include co-morbities, general fitness, CVD, medications, previous heart attack or stroke, structural heart defects etc.....
I was concerned my heart would just conk out after 18 hours or so of high BPM and expressed this concern to my EP. My EP said the heart can handle such high rates for weeks before damage sets in. Of course, for me, the highest rates I have seen are 130-150 (I'm 70 yo) and more usually my rate while in afib is 80-100.
I was thinking that when riding my road bike up a mountain pass, my pulse reaches 150 for a couple of minutes and that is at maximum exertion. I would certainly conk out if I had to sustain that for 18 hours . So, perhaps the inefficiency of afib contractions means the heart isn't actually working as hard for 150 bpm in afib compared to 150 bpm in nsr?
In olden days(!) when I was bedside nursing, if a patient had an arrythmia usually AF, we were required to do 4 hourly "apex and radials". We hated it, it meant 2 nurses one taking radial pulse and the other taking the ventricular beat at the apex of the heart. This demonstrated how well the heart was pumping. Presumably now ecgs are readily available this is no longer the case.In those days the ecg machine came from "the department" with a Technician,certainly not one on the ward!!
Usually AF has taken my heartrate to 15-180 and come down 3-4 hours after taking PIPs (Bisoprolol and Flecainide). I've only gone to A&E when my heartrate hit 200+ for a couple of hours and wouldn't come down even with my PIPs. At that point I was feeling like I might faint and so didn't feel safe without medical assistance.
Do you only take PIP or do you have a smaller daily dose ?
Only PIP - I couldn't handle a daily dose of either med due to side effects. Now I've had 2 ablations so haven't had an AF episode for many months. I just keep the PIPs in case it comes back.
What constitutes low heart rate?
Slow heart rate (in 50s)
Stethoscope to check heart rate
