Did you know that having AF increases your risk of having a stroke by 5 times?
AF is a type of irregular heart rhythm. It means that your heart may not be pumping as well as it should. As a result, blood clots are more likely to form in your heart, increasing your risk of having an AF-related stroke.
Learn more about reducing your risk here: heartrhythmalliance.org/afa...
Scary headline: Up to x5 more likely to have a stroke........if memory serves this is based on one small study done some years ago or is there more recent evidence now?
It would be helpful when using such an attention grabbing headline to quote the study(ies) at that point, in the interests of transparency, so everyone has an option to easily find it and check it out, including who financed it.
Sorry to sound a tad cynical with all the good work you do but the last 4 years has taught me, and many less fortunate, some sharp lessons and I think the future needs change.
Yes, the original study that offered these risks numbers excluded patients with pAF! Go figure!🤔
The original source was ...
Wolf PA, Dawber TR, Thomas HE, Jr, Kannel WB. Epidemiologic assessment of chronic atrial fibrillation and risk of stroke: the Framingham study. Neurology. 1978;28:973–7. [PubMed] [Google Scholar]
And the following comments by a previous Member of our Forum deserve more consideration. I know I am still bemused by it all, and such a vital matter 🤔 ...
"On first glance I could see that the study compared people with AFib and RHD (rheumatic heart disease) with people with AFib and no RHD, the conclusion being that there is a x17 risk of stroke in the former and a x5 risk in the latter.HOWEVER (drum roll....) this evening I took some time to read through the Wolf study more fully than my original quick scan....and imagine my surprise when I discovered the following:
"We excluded subjects with stroke prior to the onset of AF. Persons found to be in AF for the first time when hospitalized for stroke were excluded, as were those with known paroxysmal fibrillation. In order to provide a clear and prospective picture of the development of stroke in AF, we included only subjects who were fibrillating on biennial examination."
This means that people with paroxysmal AFib weren't even included in this particular study and that all subjects had persistent AFib!I'm staggered that this figure (of x5 risk) is applied so indiscriminately……..” "
It is indeed a very crude statistic which is widely used and alarming to those at a much lower risk than this. The stratification of risk based on age, concomitant factors and previous incidence of stroke is very wide. It would be more accurate to say AF is associated with an increased risk of stroke.
Have you seen this article which has a helpful table tabulating stroke risk with duration of AF and CHADS2 score ...onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...
Yes I have, but it was interesting to refresh my memory. You’re quite right, we should add duration to the risk stratification. I was that person that was unduly upset at diagnosis and I now have so many research studies bookmarked.
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Bob, I am still struggling to get my head round that. I agree with your last sentence and that info seems to backup my initial comment. Let's provide the information and let the individual decide with an open mind. As I have said before it is too much to place the responsibility of the correct interpretation on 'Admin'.
Has anyone used Nattokinase as a blood thinner/BP reducer?
If so, with what results?
I've been reading about/ researching it for the last few weeks and have decided to give it a try.
I'm looking for information about the effect it has on the mini-clots that seem prevalent with Covid.
It is widely used, especially in Japan, so I was hoping to find something that says that mini-clots have been less of a problem there.
Any information or thoughts would be appreciated.
George
I understand Nattokinase is being used much more now as part of the 'Spike Protein Detoxification' and no doubt in due course more information will pop up on the FLCCC and World Council for Health websites.
Dr Peter McCullough is lead on this and treatment is of course per individual patient assessment but I understand his basic detox includes:
Nattokinase 2000 units x2 /day
Bromelain 500mg/day
Curcumin 500mg x2/day
I am waiting for more track record of successful treatments before I suggest other family members consider it. My take at present is there is trouble coming down the track for vaccinated & non-vax (due to shedding) so the sooner we know what action to take the better.
I think if anticoagulation is indicated, then personally I think an anticoagulant is currently the way to go. There is not enough evidence of an alternative just yet. However, it is a shame if people are frightened into taking an anticoagulant if in reality their personal risk of stroke is not anywhere near 5x.
I looked into this some years ago and I couldn't find any recommended dose of Nattokinase for someone with AF in order to reduce the likelihood of stroke or blood clot. There seemed to be no research on this and no suggestions as to what daily dose is needed. If there's any evidence or any studies about it with conclusions as to the necessary amount to take, I would love to take Nattokinase. But without any solid info, I'll stick to my anticoagulant (Apixaban). Have you found any Nattokinase daily dose info re AF?
Hi Philologus
I’ve been on Nattokinase , 2000 fu once per day for about 6 weeks now. I’m in persistent AF but, as I’m 58 with no comorbidities, I don’t qualify for anticoagulants until I reach 65. I’m ok with that but figured the Nattokinase wouldn’t do any harm in the meantime. I have no idea what it might, or might not, be doing in the anticoagulant department, although I did notice that when I accidentally cut my finger whilst chopping some veg last week, the cut did seem to bleed more freely. That may just have been due to the location of the cut, or depth though, so I wouldn’t want to categorically say it was the Nk .
Interestingly, I also have mild asthma and one thing I have noticed since starting Nk is that my breathing is easier. Again, whether coincidental or due to the Nk I don’t know but I’m happy to keep on with it.
I’m on Verapamil so my blood pressure is on the low side due to that. I’ve not noticed any further reduction with the Nk.
Hope that’s of some help, TC
That's interesting about the asthma. I wonder if it's because the blood is flowing better and carrying/releasing oxygen better.
Yes, that’s certainly a possibility.
I forgot to mention previously that I’m also looking into Pycnogenol as an additional anti-thrombotic. There have been a few, albeit small, studies conducted looking at the use of Pycnogenol post DVT to prevent recurrence of clots and also for DVT prevention in long haul flights. In the latter case in combination with Nattokinase. From the limited data the studies produced, it appeared to be quite effective. Whether those effects would carry over into prevention of clots caused by AF I’ve no idea but, as I say, as I’m not on anticoagulation yet, so I’m up for giving it a go. Watch this space!
Pycnogenol is also good for endothelial repair. 50mg twice a day. According to a webinar I'm watching from FLCCC
That’s interesting to know, thanks.
Nothing AF specific other than the general warning that Nattokinase should not be used as well as any other blood thinner without approval from a Health Care professional.
The one I'm taking is Nattokinase 2000FU 100mg tablet. One per day at mealtime. NOT on an empty stomach.
This dose is the one that has been used in most trials.
I'm taking it to see if it makes any difference to my left foot which is discoloured.
I have seen my GP about this and had a Doppler test which was normal so he has referred me to a Vascular specialist. I'm in the UK and our NHS is on its last legs and my appointment isn't until June so I wanted to do something before then.
I've had Covid at least twice and had Long Covid since last August. I haven't had any of the vaccines as I didn't like the idea of messing with RNA or DNA. We were told that the vaccine was safe because it only affected the RNA and would not change DNA. This has proved to be wrong so I'm glad I decided as I did.
I have read about 'Covid toe' which is caused by mini-clots and am satisfied that Nattokinase will do me no harm unless I'm allergic to it but, obviously, I'll be monitoring it closely.
I also Earth myself as much as possible as this reduces inflammation.
Once upon a time... in a galaxy far, far.... I used to trust the medical profession. Not any longer. I've had too many bad experiences. I decided that when I look in the mirror I am looking at the person who knows most about me (unless you believe my wife 😀) and I decided to take back responsibility for my own health and welfare. I ask myself, "What is God/Mother Nature doing and how can I fit in with that?"
QOL or The known benefit of ablation 
Stroke fear
Blood Clot 
Puzzled by CHADS, response to djroute66
Anyone got the real stats re strokes or is it just general one liner for all AF sufferers 
