Heart failure question

[Jump1]

Trying to learn . I don't have heart failure but know someone who has been told they are and have arrhythmia. What causes this? Could it be untreated thyroid would that be common?

[BobD Volunteer]

Heart failure merely means that the heart is unable to fulfill all the demands put on it. This may be the result of a variety of causes. Enlargement of any of the chambers due to arrhythmias can be one of them. Thickening of the muscle reducing pumping capability is another.

Some thyroid conditions can cause arrhythmias yes but not all arrhythmias are a result of thyroid problems.

[Jump1 in reply to BobD]

This person has been told they have arrythmia. If it causes hf. What causes arrythmia?

[BobD Volunteer in reply to Jump1]

Which arrhythmia? There are lots of different ones some quite benign. No point is answering the wrong question.

[Jump1 in reply to BobD]

They haven't said I did ask which one will ask again

[saulger]

This, from the Internet, may help:

How AFib Leads to Heart Failure

When you have AFib, your heart may beat faster than normal, even when you're just resting. And since the heart's doing more of a quiver than a strong push, it ends up sending out only some of the blood it normally would. It's like the difference between a bunch of short, frantic bursts on a bike pump versus long, steady strokes.

AFib can also cause fluid buildup in your lungs. Your lungs fill your blood with oxygen before sending it back to your heart. So now, your heart doesn't get enough oxygen-rich blood from the lungs, and even if it does, it's beating too fast to do a good job of pumping it out.

And a rapid heartbeat -- or just one that's never regular -- can damage the muscles of your heart.

All of that sets the stage for heart failure. Even though your heart's working really hard -- too hard -- your body's still not getting the oxygen it needs.

How Heart Failure Leads to AFib

It works in the other direction, too. Your heart's rhythm is controlled by electrical signals. For those signals to work well, they need healthy heart tissue.

But heart failure can actually stretch your atria and cause tissue in your heart to thicken and scar. Those changes throw off the electrical signals, and that messes up the heart's rhythm and can cause AFib.

webmd.com/heart-disease/atr....

[CDreamer]

I would just like to reassure you that not everyone with arrythmias has heart failure and it can be treated and can be reversible.

This from a recent post I put up a few days ago from an EP:-

One of the problems when AF is permanent is that after a year or so the system stops bothering to react and people gradually develop fluid overload – it is often called "heart failure" but actually can happen even when the heart is completely fine (apart from th AF). Anyway all they need is a regular low dose of diuretic to do the same job and everything is OK again.

[Jump1 in reply to CDreamer]

They've told them as far as I know they have it. Going for another scan today

[Singwell]

The most important thing for your friend is to ascertain WHICH arrhythmia they have. It doesn't necessarily mean 'heart failure' which is a bit of a non specific term. Both hypo and hyperthyroidism might lead to arrhythmia- but then so do a lot of conditions including blood pressure problems, digestive issues, blood sugar etc etc. Your friend needs a proper diagnosis. Then you might find the York Cardiologist YouTube channel useful as an information resource.

[Ppiman]

I've always thought that this little phrase has to be one of the worst that doctors have come up with since the very sound of it instills fear at a time when that's the last thing anyone with it needs to be suffering.

AF can reduce the amount of blood exiting the left atrium, thus reduce the performance of the ventricle receiving it and lead to "heart failure", i.e. reduced cardiac efficiency. Often, as I understand it, this is reversible when the AF is controlled, or by taking drugs. I've been given losartan, for example, a blood pressure medicine, even though I don't have hypertension, as it's been shown to have long term protective effects on the heart.

Hopefully, your friend will find ways to overcome the problem, too.

Steve

[Jump1 in reply to Ppiman]

I've asked what type of arrythmia not heard yet.

They were told heart failure. As far as I know. And were told that they could hear a flutter in heart. Scanned and no blood clot causing breathing difficulties. They had fluid on lungs given diuretic. Also been given bets blocker

[Ppiman in reply to Jump1]

I had persistent atrial flutter in 2019 and that caused temporary heart "failure" but, following my ablation, all has returned to within normal limits, I gather. That said, I can't admit to having anything like the energy I had before, but I am now 68 so tend to wonder if it's age or heart!

Steve

[Jump1 in reply to Ppiman]

What is ablation

[Ppiman in reply to Jump1]

It's a procedure perform under general or local anaesthetic in which a long wire or catheter is inserted usually into a vein in the groin and pushed all the way into the heart to destroy the cells that are causing the arrhythmia (i.e. atrial fibrillation or flutter).

Steve

[Jump1 in reply to Ppiman]

So is that what they mean by heart flutter then that it is atrial fib?

[Ppiman in reply to Jump1]

Only in everyday usage. Atrial "flutter" is an arrhythmia ("wrong rhythm") in the right-hand top chamber of the heart, which vibrates regularly at about 300bpm instead of the usual 72bpm. Atrial fibrillation is a similar problem that affects the left to chamber of the heart but instead of beating too quickly, the chamber quivers randomly at about 4-600 bpm.

The bottom two chambers, the ventricles, thankfully remain largely unaffected by what the atria are doing (or it would be life threatening). Sometimes the ventricles can react to by racing. If a heart races at more than 100bpm persistently and for no expected reason such as exercise, then this is called tachycardia, and it needs controlling with drugs such as beta-blockers.

Steve

[Jump1 in reply to Ppiman]

They've been given a diuretic to remove fluid from lungs and two beta blockers so far that I know of.

[Ppiman in reply to Jump1]

A diuretic helps the kidneys to remove excess fluid from areas of the body to reduce the work the heart has to do. Let's hope this helps your friend and things soon return to normal.

Steve

[Jump1 in reply to Ppiman]

They mentioned cardiomyopathy. So heard a bit more. The Dr said the heart is wrecked and stretched across chest and they will give medication and try and put it back in. And they can't be far from a defibrillator.

What does that mean? The stretch across chest and of ut back in

[Ppiman in reply to Jump1]

I’ve no idea. I’ve never heard or even could imagine a doctor saying such a thing, “wrecked and stretched”. Goodness. Cardiomyopathy is I think also rather vague because I suppose each of us could have some small degree of that simply owing to age but having too much would be a bad thing.

Steve

[Jump1 in reply to Ppiman]

What causes heart murmurs?

[Ppiman in reply to Jump1]

I’m not sure, but I think people are either born with them or other heart issues can cause them.

They are when a valve allows regurgitation of blood, I believe. I had a mild form of that when I had persistent tachycardia caused by my atrial flutter in 2019 but, thankfully, that recovered completely after my ablation.

Steve

[Jump1 in reply to Ppiman]

The Dr saying they havr a murmur which caused dilated cardiomyopathy and heart muscle is damaged and some medication will fix some of it. But told them they are a walking time bone. Could hashimotos thyroid untreated have potentially caused that murmur I reckon this person has hashimotos.

[Ppiman in reply to Jump1]

I have no idea. Your friend has my sympathy!

Steve

[CDreamer in reply to Jump1]

I agree that ‘heart failure’ is just about the worst term to use to a layman simply because it’s taken literally by many who believe this is going to be imminently life threatening. It’s not a death sentence.

My husband was technically in heart failure 3 years ago, after treatment his heart is normal again.

[etheral]

This is really a much too complicated a subject to be meaningfully discussed here. Your friend needs a consultation between their cardiologist and EP and an explanation as to what is happening and the available treatments.

[Jump1 in reply to etheral]

They are getting all that. They are in hospital.