Hi, just joined and while waiting to see GPs etc I was wondering if anyone can help. I get, what feels like to me, irregular heart rhythms but only very occasionally, like maybe 1 a month. It seems to come out of the blue and often in the evening, sometimes after exercise (fell running), sometimes not when I've had a quiet day. From what I've read it's not Flutter as my heart rate is fairly normal 60/70ish when it happens, not the super fast beats. My resting HR is more like 50, so when its up at 60/70 I notice it, especially when trying to sleep. It can often last all night and into the next day and then just vanish for some reason. Kind of guessing on AFib... Its not painful, just off-putting, probably feel a bit tired and get a bit light headed if I go up stairs quickly. It can feel mostly normal and then a quick few beats faster/irregular and then back to more normal. The beats can sometimes feel quite heavy too, also disturbing.
Any thoughts out there in the meantime?
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stoneyhouse
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This may possibly be AF but only really confirmed by an ECG whilst it is happening. I suspect more likely to be ectopic (out of place) beats. AF is an irregular and irregular beat (no rhythm whatsoever) whereas ectopics can come singly or in clusters. Over exercise is a common cause of lots of these arrhythmias so best listen to your body. (And I know how tough fell running is. I once ran from red Pike to Haystacks and it nearly killed me. )
Thanks BobD, very helpful! I'll try to get some tests done as soon as I can but things are so easy in the NHS these days so it will probably be a long wait. I may have to ware a monitor for weeks in order to catch an episode - unless I can try to force one by running and getting tried, and I think de-hydration is also a possible cause, or more likely a mix of the two.
De hydration is the very worst thing. Few people drink enough water (2 litres a day for men -- more in hot weather) and it plays havoc with arrhythmias.
Ah! Maybe that's the root cause, even without doing much real exercise (ie easy garden work etc) and just not drinking much/regularly during the day can bring it on sometimes - but not always of course!
I can understand why you might want to, but it might not be a good idea to prejudge things before you see your GP. The fact that you have used words like Afib suggests you already know a bit about irregular heartbeats but there are so many variations, and even variations within variations, it’s much better a safer to wait until you have had an ECG. Until you know the outcome, it might be best to ease off the running because you could be doing more harm than good. If you haven’t already, try mastering the art of checking you pulse. With ectopics, the heartbeat can be regular, then there can be random missed beats. With AF, the heart rate can be slow, in range (60/100 bpm) or fast but totally irregular. Symptoms vary from person to person but it’s all guess work until you get the ECG. An added problem might be that your heart is performing normally when they take the ECG in which case the results may be inconclusive. If that happens, you may want to consider looking at a monitor such as a Kardia or Applewatch but see your GP first, some folk can become obsessive with using gizmos and that’s not helpful. Let us know how you get on after seeing your GP as that may prompt some more questions the folks here can help you with…….
Thanks FlapJack! I know AF is complicated and lots of variations with differing symptoms, hence my wondering. I agree GP and some tests first. Not doing so much running these days and mostly, if I take it easy and drink plenty on my return, it rarely happens. I have a Garmin watch but I don;t normally bother with HR these days, I do have an old monitor strap but not sure it would show much detail as it doesn't happen when I'm out and I don't go out if I don;t feel right. I'll be back in due course I'm sure! Thanks again.
I purchased a 6 lead Kardia about 6 months ago. The reason was because I have having some ectopic beats at different times than my AF and wasn’t sure what it was. It turned out to be sinus with SVTs but I would not have known That without the 6 lead. You might want to invest in it especially if you aren’t sure what is going on.
Yes, I've been using for about 7 years now and on my second device, the single lead model.I've found it invaluable and a great help in being able to show paramedics, A&E etc
It proved useful the other evening when I had a consultation with a new cardiologist and he went through a couple of my recordings with me.
I was also able to confirm my suspicion of AF relating to husband a while back with the Kardia. A visit to GP confirmed and he was put on anticoagulants and a referral made to cardiology. I then had a call from the department asking if I could email the reading from my Kardia which I was able to do. Echocardiogram was then arranged. In the meantime we can easily keep check on his rates which thankfully are not fast ( 80/90 compared to his previous 70s) as he appears to be in permanent AF. He is completely unaware of this . If I had not used the Kardia he would not be on anticoagulants and be at increased risk of stroke.
Sounds useful! In permanent AF doesn't sound good, whatever I get I certainly know it's happening - unless there's something else going on I don't know about of course!
I'm new at this cardio business, so I got a FitbitSense watch and then a 1 lead Kardia ($69US). The Kardia outperformed the Fitbit-the readouts were good enough that my cardio guy and the electrophysiologist were able to diagnose my P-Afib, after numerous ecg's and Holter's were all essentially normal. I was/am looking into the 6 lead Kardia (little more expensive), but some of the reviews I've read have been a little sketchy, so I'm holding off on the 6 lead for now. Very satisfied with the 1 lead Kardia, and my cardio guy is too!
Do you take a drink with you when you run, or have one immediately afterwards? I discovered that anything containing artificial sweeteners or additives would kick my AF off.
On longer runs (over maybe 6 miles) I will at this time of year but in summer or warmer weather I've started taking one even on 5-6 milers. I try to stay away from artificial sweeteners especially in drinks (ie coke etc). I used to use sports carb drinks a lot 5+ years ago but not now, not doing the distance. But I do use some electrolyte tablets in the hot weather.
I was diagnosed with kardia readings. Every time I had ECG at the GP’s or using hospital monitor the irregularities disappeared. To me it was well worth the £99 the Kardia cost. Some surgeries are starting to lend them out. Good luck and best wishes to you.
Hi. Have an ECG. If that doesn't show then ask for a 24 monitor. You may need to be referred to heart specialist.
Your heart should slow at night but yours seems to speed up.
Do you have a BP monitor at home? Get a Microlife one and right size.
Heart rate and rythmn are too different symptoms.
It is how you feel, your response to an irregular heart beat.
Nothing about your age.
Take care. Some people have episodes. An upset thyroid may cause Irregular heart beat so ask Dr to do a neck scan often levels of TSH and T4 dont show. Mine was Papillary Thyroid cancer which caused A.F which caused the stroke. Blood clots can form with irregular heart beat rapid or slow.
Thanks, will be seeking medical advice/help. But its good to know a bit more rather from people rather than just reading. Normally my heart rate does slow to 50 at night but if there's something happening it doesn't settle that low, more like 60/70/80 and the faster rate coupled with the uncomfortable heart lurching makes sleeping a little difficult. I'm now more at ease with the condition but of course need to see there's an underlying issue (like you) that needs looking at.
The problem with arrhythmias is that so much of the problem is often psychosomatic, with the strange-feeling heartbeat creating anxiety. That's my experience. What you have sounds like ectopic heart beats; this is a common arrhythmia that everyone experiences at some point, even when young; however, they can also come in twos, threes or runs that last for varying lengths of time, hours even. These are usually "benign" meaning that they lead to nothing of importance.
You won't have atrial flutter since this causes a fixed and step-wise alteration in beat, with the pulse at a ratio of ~300bpm and no value in between (i.e. 150 / 100 / 75. etc.); you might have atrial fibrillation, which produces a heartbeat that is variable and irregular, but which can be any rate from "normal" (say 70) to fast (85-180). You can feel the irregularity on your pulse, but runs of ectopics can feel similar.
A visit to your GP and an ECG will help, if you can "catch" the arrhythmia. Alternatively, an Apple Watch or similar, or a Kardia, will likely show what is happening.
Thanks for your insight, kind of what I was thinking but not don't know how different ectopic and AF feel. Will pursue further medical advice and maybe get a Kardia.
I find that runs of ectopic beats can feel the same as AF, causing a "hollow" feeling in the chest and some discomfort under my left rib. I never know what this is, though, as I have gastric issues, also, that it seems to mimic. I think tachycardia is what causes most symptoms - well, that's what I find (85-130bpm in my case). I think, also, in some people AF can reduce the heart's pumping capacity, too, and cause other symptoms such as weakness and fatigue, or shortness of breath.
Interesting you say Pyschosomatic, when I get a run of ectopic beats you can guarantee that an AF episode will follow a day or two after, do you think I am causing my own AF from the anxiety of the ectopics? Therefore inducing the condition from one’s mental thoughts?
I’m not sure. I used the word in place of, say, “anxiety” or “fear” to try to explain that much of what I’ve felt from when tachycardia first raised its ugly head in 2019 (only later put down to atrial flutter) was from my mind rather than from my heart. I still can’t be sure I’m right about that, though. Certainly, the fear of what catastrophe (!) might happen next can’t help the ongoing physical situation and is likely to worsen it. A panic attack is, after all, just that.
Hi. No.Drs who dont understand A.F try to put the blame on you but 1 in 5 persons have it and the older you get the more likely.
Some ignore but persistent rapid heart beat needs CONTROL under a Heart Specialist. Meds are trial and error so I found out.
Luckily no mental intrusion in mine as I do not feel it. Bad ribcage and my heart is hiding under the 'sticking out' ribcage!
My side effects are profuse sweating usually with a task or exertion and total loss of energy.
I have a Dr blaming loss of energy on my thyroxine but I dont get that. I had that before stroke or discovery of Papillary Thyroid Cancer.
The cause of A.F can be genetic, or age related etc.
My best result was when A.F was a lot controlled. By CCB Diltiazem a trial by Private Heart Specialist.
I went through Metoprolol which made my breathless and I was sleepy tired after just walking around, then Bisoprolol a little better control but the CCB dropped my heart beat down 40-50 at rest with Bisoprolol 2.5mg at night.
For a year I do not need to be anywhere near supression which is a regime after Thyroid cancer they encourage.
Too much overdose of thyroxin for me for my age 73 yrs and A.F condition.
I say I want to managemyhealth!
Refused Radio Active Iodine with low risk and I am at year 2 awaiting my Neck Scan on Wednesday. No cancer return or new at the year's scan 1 year.
Keep safe, tell all information and make sure Dr or Specialist is listening!
I would have to disagree re. It not being atrial flutter as I get atrial flutter on top of my currently permanent AF so my beat is still all over the place (diagnosed by specialist nurse) I can now recognise the 'saw toothed' type waves between my irregular heart beats most of the time using my kardia 6 lead (the A flutter seems more obvious on lead 2) the kardia doesnt diagnose Atrial Flutter yet but I think they were going for FDA licencing for diagnosing A Flutter last year. Getting your own ECG readings do help getting more prompt medical attention as you can show that you are having arythmias.
I had forgotten about the two occurring together but that wasn’t mentioned by the OP. When I was diagnosed they had to stop my heart momentarily with an injection adenosine (if I recall) to show up the flutter. I’d read that the 6L can show AFl but I don’t have that now since my ablation.
The 6L is useful but it will be better when it actually diagnoses A Flutter rather than giving an unclassified reading and leaving it to yourself to read or have e read. Hoping mine will go at least temporarily when I get my cardioversion as the AF and A Flutter plus high levels of bisoprolol are totally ruining my quality of life! Also hoping your ablation lasts a good long time, mine unfortunately only lasted 2-3 yrs but I think there are complications with my health.,
I'm sorry you have other issues. It's no fun is it, suffering this way? Do you mean, by the way, that your flutter ablation failed after 2-3 years? I thought an ablation for AFl was meant to be a cure (differently from ablation for AF).
My own AFl has (so far) been stopped by my ablation in June 2019, but after that, when I was told to stop taking bisoprolol (5mg), within days, I was ill again. That time it turned out to be with AF not AFl. A single dose of bisoprolol 5mg stopped that and all went well until November 2020 when I developed tachycardia (130bpm) while helping my son move house. My GP thought that was AF but my Apple Watch didn't report that. I was told to take bisoprolol which worked. Later, I saw a cardiologist again and had a 2-week Zio patch which showed brief AF-like episodes but not much of concern. I also have some LBBB which shows on Kardia as "NSR with Wide QRS".
Since then, I have started to get more regular bouts of mild tachycardia (85-130bpm) which bring on worrying chest discomfort under my left rib, like a tightening sensation, sometimes spreading into my back, leaving mild discomfort for some hours. I have gastric issues (a sliding hiatus hernia) so am never sure what is what. In autumn, I had a few bouts of AF and two that were not AF but runs of ectopic beats (that felt identical to me). My GP puts the whole lot down to AF but the Kardia and Watch report otherwise.
I’d also recommend Kardia 6L. I’ve had AF when not expecting it and Normal when feeling palpitations. Also on the 2 or 3 occasions I’ve had a doctors ECG just after an AF on the Kardia, the ECG traces have been identical. ECG whenever you want, wherever you want is invaluable. I do one after each swim/bike/run. Just need to make sure not to get anxious whatever the results - how you feel is the biggest indicator.
I’m not sure. I think most of the auto diagnosis is done on the first lead only but Lesd II (2) best shows AF to the layman at least (absence of P Wave)
Catching an event is the tricky part when trying to get a diagnosis if possible get to the Doctors or A and E unless you have a watch or Kardia that will capture an episode with an ECGThere is a patch fitted for 2 weeks that is helpful called a Zio which can capture the heart rate for 2 weeks.
If you Dr refers you to a Cardiologist I wish I had gone to an EP specialist sooner.
Hi Bob D Best to get an app or device to check. The latest Apple Watch has ECG functionality and even checks in the night for irregularities. Or there is an app AFib that just uses your phone camera & flash. Whenever you get a flutter then check and and it will confirm if it’s AFIB. I had several trips to the GP , ECG,s before I got a diagnosis. Good luck
Hi stoney, I would book a app with your GP and ask them for a 24/48 hour monitor as this will hopefully catch any rhythm disturbance.?? But Sod’s law once you get your monitor on your heart will behave itself.?
Nevertheless hopefully you will find out exactly what it is. 👍
You could also find out if there are any walk on centre hospitals ( ie no beds) near you. There is one quite near to me ( 20 mins) and it has an ECG. I never used it but one of my mates passed out for e few seconds during a bike ride and he went there for a check ( he just has some bug which showed itself later , nothing wrong with his heart) .
This is what the vast majority experience, by your description. Worrying about it will exacerbate your problems, consult your doctors and push to the back of your mind. Paroxysmal beats are are very "normal" and are not a worry, normally. As long as you have informed your doctors, i would simply record the effects you feel, record your BPM, and whether it is regular or irregular, how long and what the effects are and carry on carrying on, good luck!
Hello! Yes I’d definitely go to GP then to a cardiologist for a cardiac work up/screening. Then you’ll have your answers. A cardiac work up will tell you what you’re dealing with. Best wishes💫
Hello and welcome to the group. There is some very good advice to be had from fellow sufferers on here. It sounds like paroxysmal atrial fibrillation to me. I have had this for just over 30 years. It starts out of nowhere and stops the same way. It can last for seconds or hours Even after all these years I cannot pinpoint a trigger to it happening. What I would suggest is for you to write down your symptoms and any questions you want answering so that when you get to see your GP or a cardiologist you have it to hand. Good luck.
Thanks sarniacherie - sound advice. I have been recording instances with 'possible' triggers for some time now but its inconclusive. Best seems to be not drinking enough (water) during the day especially if I go running during the day. The episodes used to be short lived but now normally last until sometime the following day, only 1 so far this year. Trying to ensure I drink plenty does seem to work (I think!).
it certainly sounds like af to me, I get the same symptoms, usually starts in evening & can go on til next day, longest time was about 3 days. my HB can get to 240bpm, but usually its over 100, I can go months without an episode & it will kick off for no reason. what you need is an ecg when it is doing it, which in my case took about a year!! you can go to the docs in the middle of the night!! do you take any meds for it? i take bisopropolol & apixaban, & usually am ok. but, I did have to have 3 ablations before it settled down, had it about 8 years now. so good luck with it all.
Early on so no diags or meds as yet. Might invest in a Kardia (as others have) so I can get a recording at the time and then pass it/them to any specialists I see down the line
i was thinking of getting one, up to now, I have relied on the blood pressure monter, mine tells me if I am in AF, good luck anyway, do you go to LGI? i had my ablations there, they were very good, nice people there. cheers. judy
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