Anyone triggered by alcohol? How long does it take to manifest as AF?
Alcohol as a trigger for AF - Atrial Fibrillati...
Alcohol as a trigger for AF
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Redactrice
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Studies show alcohol can be a primary risk factor/trigger for afib. And heavy drinking even worse than social drinking.
Jim
Yes, and I was never a heavy drinker even before persistent AF leading to ablation. Nearly teetotal now. Not sure if alcohol is a trigger for me or not because I've had a lot of AF and a minuscule amount of alcohol for the last 18 months.
My question is how long it takes to trigger, and at what point -- assuming light consumption and no liver damage -- it can be ruled out as the trigger for a particular episode: if total consumption was 2 units, and alcohol is processed at a rate of approx 1 unit per hour, and AF kicks off 36hrs later...
If I remember correctly, a recent study showed that any amount of alcohol can increase the of afib reoccurring. Does that mean I will never have an occasional beer? Right now I don't have to make the decision because I'm on a bunch of drugs that don't allow me to drink. So I'll cross that decision if and when I get off of them. And probably take another look at the study data.
Jim
It was for me, especially red wine. I ended up in A&E after a few reds one night. Had a successful cardioversion in Dec 22 and found alcohol triggered my flutters since then so I just stopped drinking alcohol. I’m 16 months teetotal and don’t miss it. I really like Guinness 0% it’s super and Heineken zero is ok too 👍🏻
Hi Redactrice.
Alcohol can certainly trigger afib. Even a sip puts some members on here into afib. For others a few beers are OK. One thing is for sure though - over do it by binge drinking and afib will pay you a visit. You may get away with it once (and maybe you won't!) but take that route a few times and you are asking for trouble.
I'm in two minds about this. Why stop everything you enjoy because of afib - however, some things are not risking your health for. Two pints is my limit now and has never put me back into afib. Just take it easy and find out what works best for you. I've said it many times on here and I'll say it again. Moderation.
Paul
Fact.
Binge drinking has never held any attraction, even before AF and drugs were a factor,
There’s no straight answer in my opinion, AF is so different for everyone. I don’t think alcohol as such is a trigger for me but the inflammation or dehydration that comes from a hangover definitely is. When I was first diagnosed with AF I hadn’t drank any for over a year through choice. Now, post ablation, I have a couple of drinks, beer and wine and all seems to be ok as long as I don’t overdo it.
Best wishes
So alcohol isn’t a trigger but all the negative effects of it are? 😆 That makes zero sense sorry.
Actually it does. My first big episode came the morning after binge drinking. I went to bed hammered, slept for 6 hours, woke up and had breakfast. Three hours after waking up I went into afib, keep in mind my last drink was more than 6 hours before that. But I made the big mistake (as so many times when drinking heavily) to not rehydrate, especially when I woke up and even after the breakfast. My body was screaming for water and electrolytes for sure. So even though the drinking set the stage for afib, I almost certainly went into afib due to dehydration and electrolyte imbalance.
Thanks, exactly my point, but I do understand just a sip for some can be an instant trigger too.
Best wishes
BobDVolunteer
Even the smell back in the day though not so much now after four ablations. In younger people binge drinking accconts for nearly 100% of early onset AF.
Lifelong teetotallers get AFib too!
Yes. Also skinny people -- it's not all about weight.
Even people with moles and brown hair get it.
😆 great reply. Seems like an easy get out for people to drink and eat what they want. Simple fact of the matter is if you’re a drinker and overweight then you are significantly more at risk of getting persistent af. People can sugar coat it all they want but it’s a fact. Just stop drinking, eat healthy and get exercise. It will improve your life either way.
Simple fact of the matter is if you’re a drinker and overweight then you are significantly more at risk of getting persistent af. People can sugar coat it all they want but it’s a fact. Just stop drinking, eat healthy and get exercise. It will improve your life either way
+1
Paul
PS +1 means a 'like'.
So that's my problem -- brown hair! Will it pass when I go completely grey/white?
That depends on the number of moles you have and whether you sleep on your left side.
No!
I always used to have a very small sherry while I was cooking dinner and didn’t think it affected me. When I moved home I stopped - no reason, just upheavals changed habits. One day I felt like a sherry and after a few sips got a very weird feeling in my chest similar to angina. I haven’t had one since but I’ve had a sherry sized glass of wine and the same of Prosecco at family social occasions without a problem. So I don’t know if it was the sherry or the empty stomach + but I’m not rushing to find out.
A few weeks ago, halfway down a glass of plain tonic water on a Friday evening, I began to feel uncomfortable in my chest. I didn't know that quinine can trigger AF -- I do now. I poured the rest of the bottle down the sink.
Drinking on an empty stomach is never a good idea. I couldn't do it even when I was younger.
Had to give up the occasional G & T, which I really enjoyed in the summer, for the same reason. Also the sulphites in wine and beers are a trigger so I am Tee Total. it's not worth the hassle of an episode.
Tonic water definitely triggers my AF . Quinine in Pims too ,
Yup, quinine -- I found that out the hard way several weeks ago, drinking a plain tonic water. No gin.
Ooops, sorry for repetition
All carbonated drinks are bad for the heart.
The fizz too is bad for your heart .
Yes, alcohol is a trigger for me, but not the only one. Retrospectively, I recalled that I first noticed getting palpitations when out drinking with some mates about 10 years ago. At the time though I didn't have a clue what it was.
Some time later, maybe days, weeks or months I got palpitatons after doing some digging in the garden. When this happened again I suspected this as my trigger.
I then got palpiations when waiting for a train when travelling to London for a drinking session. Some sort of stress response perhaps to travelling? I could though drink at home without resulting in palpitations
The episodes increased but it was quite a while before I discovered this thing called atrial fibrilation that gave similar symptoms to mine. I couldn't convince the doctors as I never had any symptoms when seeing them. Eventually I did convince them with evidence from a Kardiamobile.
Now, more than one or two drinks will almost certainly trigger an Afib episode for me. And as BobD says the smell as the drink is poured can trigger a heartbeat reaction for me, although it takes an hour or two for my Afib palpitations to be obvious.
Sometimes I start an episode when having not had any alcohol (or gardening or other strenuous activity) for 2 or 3 weeks so there must be a number of triggers. I am sure that some are psychosomatic, hence stress realated not physical.
What I know now is that I get an episode every 10 to 15 days, irrespective of alcohol, activity or stress. It does appear that if I drink, do strenuous stuff or have extra stress 7 to 10 days after an Afib episode that another on will start quite soon thereafter. If I do nothing I may go up to 20 days without an episode.
I also had elusive paroxysmal AF for some years before it finally got captured on an ECG and I was given a prescription instead of well-meaning advice about 'anxiety' and 'mindfulness' (I had arrhythmia, not anxiety). Which is not to say that stress has no effect. I know firsthand that it does.
I spent last year waiting forcardiology appointments/treatment and was in persistent AF for at least 9 months, 24/7. Then I had several months of bouncing in and out, in and out of rhythm. Three months ago I had my first ablation. Three weeks of normal rhythm, for the first time in over a year. Then, breakthrough AF (and probably ectopics too). Again, I'm bouncing in and out, in and out of rhythm. But it's a new pattern -- it has stopped kicking off during the day. Now I wake up one night a week or so with my heart racing and banging. It usually stops by morning and either converts to NSR or at least slows down to normal rate with ectopics (I think these show as'unclassified' on the Kardia).
I'm tracking the patterns and trying to find some logic. Like you, I may settle into episodes at fairly predictable intervals, and there may prove to be specific triggers that increase the frequency. Several people have mentioned hangovers on this thread, but I haven't had one for years and will probably never have one again as I wouldn't risk drinking that much.
I can usually get away with one glass of wine, any more and my AF will kick off. It's the sulphites/sulphides (preservatives) in it that are the trigger.
Hi Jean.
You make a good point. It's a shame I can't link to the article but it should be the first one on Google's first page after AI has had its say. Google oculyze does beer have sulphites/sulphides and there's quite a bit of info there. It covers beers and wine. It seems that ale has fewer sulphites than lager - it's time to cut the lager out as far as I'm concerned and have an ale instead.
Paul
Try "Genius larger" its the tastiest, lowest calorie larger that I believe has the least chance of starting anything. Most drinks give me some missed/extra beats but this larger never has. Its also good for the morning after as it does not give the hangovers other drinks do.
Thanks Shcldavies. I checked it out and it looks good. 3% abv so it's not to strong and sounds a healthy beer (if there such a thing!).
Might give it a whirl.
Paul
It also tasts like premium lager
Out of interest have you tried preservative free wines? Here in Australia, you can buy them buy the range is limited.
Yes, I have and they're in limited supply here too and usually only found in large supermarkets.
I live in New Zealand, you need to enjoy wine. It's like an unspoken rule, right after loving sheep and stunning landscapes!"
You can’t drink alcohol while taking drugs for AFIB. It can kill you.
Never heard this one!!
You won’t have, it’s not true
That was what I assumed, but after a while I checked with my cardiologist and he said otherwise. 'One or two small glasses of wine, with food, not more than twice a week should be fine' was what he told me.
Concerning alcohol consumption, I think it’s important to differentiate between occasional moderate consumption, and more regular “binge” drinking. Clearly, alcohol of itself, in any quantity, is not “always” an immediate trigger for Afib. It most, it does not cause an allergic reaction. Instead, my understanding is that it is more often the after effects of alcohol , the morning after effects of dehydration, inflammation etc. that may likely initiate an Afib episode. It seems logical therefore that with reduced alcohol, and adequate re-hydration, there will be less alcohol induced effects and therefore less chance of an episode.
Initial professional advice to those diagnosed frequently appears to be “avoid all these things, caffeine, alcohol etc. etc., just in case, as they have previously been seen to be triggers for others”, and so we are all left to sift through advice and work out our own moderated, but sustainable, lifestyle - hopefully without too many sacrifices! Unfortunately, as OP has inferred, we are all prone to search for the trigger for an attack, but I think it’s important to be rational. It most likely wasn’t connected to the “single” glass of wine you had last weekend!
When I started taking daily drugs (just over a year ago), nobody mentioned alcohol, and it wasn't in two of the three leaflets. What was in the third leaflet was scary, so I assumed zero was the only safe option, but did eventually ask my cardiologist because I was turning 60 and I really really wanted a glass of something.
Binge drinking is off the table. I didn't do it anyway before I started taking daily cardiac drugs. I've known several people -- younger than me -- who died of liver failure. It's beyond grim.
Thanks for that info..I have had permanent afib for around 14 years.For all that time I've been on medication and recently changed from Warfarin to Edoxaban, I also take Bisoprolol and Adlodipine and a Statin.
The only drink I avoid is Grapefruit Juice and I drink alcohol regularly..mostly lager.
I have a boozy weekend with friends coming up and won't be monitoring consumption particularly.
I am thinking seriously about reducing my 'input' a little, but that is because I'm close to my eightieth birthday and have decided to protect my liver/kidneys a bit more.
I accept that this doesn't suit everyone's lifestyle, but it’s what I enjoy.
Just thought I'd show the other side of the coin.
After a decent amount of alcohol, no matter what drink, we get obvious result stating that we have done wrong - our way of thinking gets impaired, our balance gets problematic, our sight gets (more) blurred, our memory stops registering events, our criteria change, so we do inappropriate things etc. The worst thing is, alcohol is known to literally kill nervous cells, making irreversible damage to the body. Now, knowing that our hearts are triggered by a small nervous nod, in the right atria wall, consisting of modest quantity of cells, every lost cell may contribute to irregular triggering of heart contractions - arrhythmias. And this small nervous nod has already performed several billions of cycles when we get to be elderly... I wish, I knew it long before I got 72 yo. So, starting from today, no more alcohol for me, lol!
my experience is that alcohol plus something else is a trigger, so alcohol plus a lot of food, hangover plus exercise, alcohol plus being too hot. So I am mostly teetotal but have realised that once a month or so I can get away with one cocktail early evening as long as I am not eating much, so g&t, a margarita, a champagne cocktail. But no wine on its own as it brings a bad reaction even if not AF.
I haven’t had any alcohol since 2021, when I went into permanent l AF for 3 months.
Post ablation in August 2021, I have only had 3 AF episodes in total. All lasting less than 5 hours. The BHF website advises against alcohol as a main trigger.
For me, the memory of permanent AF versus one or two drinks isn’t worth the gamble. As a result I avoid alcohol and caffeine.
for me one of the triggers is alcohol followed by exercise. Examples the dog runs away from the house, a few drinks already consumed, I chase the dog… AF… another.. lots of red wine and next morning I go for a run…. AF.. so now I drink Zero beer and if we’re at dinner maybe a half a glass of wine. Caffeine was the same
I stopped drinking alcohol as I suspected it was a trigger for Afib. Tried different non-alcohol wines - not good. Then I discovered zero Guiness - absolutely brilliant, almost like the real thing. it's really taken off and most supermarkets now stock it.
Yes - Guinness Zero is fantastic
I didn’t drink alcohol at all until I reached about 50, then various stressful periods led me to have a couple of glasses of red wine each night. I ignored the fact that my face went red after a few sips and i’d often get palpitations. A few years later I was diagnosed with Paroxymal Afib and realised the wine and caffeine were triggers. However, I can drink spirits ie gin, whisky with no apparent affect on Afib apart from a slightly raised heart rate. I think the sulfites in red wine rather than the alcohol content can be a trigger, obviously it is different for everyone! I doubt that an episode would occur 36 hours after 2 units.
After a lifetime of enjoying (and in earlier years often over indulging) beer and wine, I completely stopped before my first ablation. Six months on, I've only drunk Zero beer (very palatable, actually) but I really miss my glass of red wine with dinner. Keep telling myself, surely it won't harm. No guarantees and I want to give the ablation every chance of longer term success...but that little voice in my head keeps saying, go on, just try one tonight.
I drink wine and spirits without any issues. My PAF is very unpredictable but luckily I have very few episodes. But none have them have started after drinking alcohol. I guess I'm the lucky one there!
Yes, that was me until my late 50s, minus the spirits. Also minus the cocktail of drugs I'm now on for persistent AF. Enjoy it while it lasts.
I’ve had PAF for 25 years (63 yr-old male). Moderate to not so moderate alcohol consumption has never been a trigger for me in the acute sense (as in during or in the 24hrs after). In fact, half a bottle of wine actually reduces evening ectopics for me. Binge drinking if very heavy; yes (‘holiday heart’) but I think that’s the dehydration component. All that said, I think alcohol in the chronic sense definitely doubles the risk of developing new onset AF. I was a VERY heavy drinker between 18 and my mid-40s. Is that why I got AF at age 39? Or was it because my tea-total mother and both her sisters got AF in their late 30s?? Maybe if I hadn’t been a heavy drinker I might not have got AF until 10-20 years after I did? As the Americans say, go figure!
I stopped drinking in April 2020 i developed AF in February 2022 and was in hospital with it in May 2022 so 2 years after I stopped drinking
Alcohol definately was a trigger for me. One glass of wine or two at the most and within 8 hrs AF would send me to A & E with very fast and high heart rate. That was when it was PAF. Now it’s changed to persistent AF I haven’t even tried. For me it’s not worth the consequences. I don’t know if others in the same position have tried?
That's what I was afraid of when I started taking daily drugs for persistent AF -- ending up in A&E within hours if I drank any alcohol at all. My concern was the interaction of the drugs with alcohol rather than AF itself (which I've had for long enough to know that it does what it wants, when it wants). With permission from my cardiologist, I eased up a little after nearly a year, and so far I seem to tolerate one or two small glasses of wine, maximum, with food, not more than twice a week (usually it's only once a week and I don't do it every week).
Around 12 years ago, when I had symptoms but no diagnosis because it was paroxysmal and elusive, I deliberately drank too much (not enough to get drunk but definitely over the limit) when fitted with a Holter monitor to see if I could trigger AF (having been told that alcohol is a trigger) so that I would finally get a diagnosis. It didn't work.
no but then I will only have a couple…if that..socially. If I drink it will be B&q, white wine, fizz. ..basically nothing too heavy like a red wine.
My triggers vary..depends what mood my AF is in..it likes to surprise me
I find a glass or two of beer to be absolutely fine, but even small amounts of wine seem to cause problems. I used to love a few glasses of wine, but can honestly say that I'm now completely out of the habit of it, which is probably a good thing! Best of luck to you.
hello, you can read my previous posts. No connection with alcohol or "lifestyle" for me at all. Unfortunately, most of the times there is no logical reason for bad luck 🫤
it definitely causes AF normally early morning for me.Prosecco is my drink of choice but now it’s a given that I’m going to get AF.Although there has been the odd occasion where I haven’t gone into AF.Im not drinking at all atm.but in Xmas day I probably will take a chance.i think if you keep it to special occasions like Easter,birthdays,Xmas or if your lucky enough on holiday again quantity will make a difference.allt of wine seems to have a lot of nasties in it.i do try and drink vegan organic.but that still gives me AF I wonder if anyone knows an even cleaner wine that’s not full of sugar and other horrible additives.im 53 AF for 8 yrs.just coming off amiodrone after that long.And had a massive AF attack that lasted 30hrs.so as far as drinking for me it will be never or special occasions.which is like being on the wagon constantly as Easter,birthday,Xmas only 3 times a year.🌲
I am definitely triggered by more than a drink or two - usually notice it the next day and it lasts 18-24 hours. I've identified a few triggers: alcohol, caffeine, salty foods (like halloumi), black licorice, and steak (I can handle a few slices but a normal size steak sets me off). I've avoided all triggers and no AF for a week, whereas before I was in afib 50% of the time.
The other thing for me that made Afib much worse was flecainide. I took it for a couple of weeks then had to stop.
What an interesting selection. Caffeine is an obvious no-no -- I was sensitive to it even in my 20s (coffee in the morning would put me into orbit for two days) and had pretty much gone decaf by the time I was diagnosed with AF in my late 40s. I have yet to delve deeply into possible food triggers. I know that overeating, as well as the type of food, can be a trigger.
This is another deep dive I need to do -- issues with flecainide. I avoided it for years but finally began taking daily doses a year ago and am still on it. Yup, my AF got worse. After catching Covid I was in persistent AF for possibly as long as 9 months, 24/7 (that was when I started on flecainide)(and cut my alcohol consumption from moderate/social to zero). I finally cardioverted quietly after six months of a daily dose. Maybe it wasn't the drug that cardioverted me, just my heart decided to be normal again.
How did flecainide affect you?
I was only on it for two weeks but my AF went from say 10% a week to almost constant, and anything would trigger it, even one drink. If I thought it would 'cure' afib I'd probably be willing to try it for 6 months.
The food thing is interesting - apparently overeating (or in my case eating something hard to digest like lean beef) stimulates the vagus nerve which causes the afib episode to start. I've started using a TENS machine to stimulate the vagus nerve with an electrode ear clip attached to the tragus (the bit of the ear that sticks out above the earlobe) for 30-60 min a day while I read or watch TV. One study suggested this reduced episodes by up to 85% in people who tried it for 6 months. Worth a shot.
Flecainide totally failed to control my AF. Some people cardiovert within an hour or two on a single dose of 50mg. For me, taking it twice a day for six months made no difference at all. For the next two or three months it may have partly controlled my AF (it was on and off at 100mg/2x day), or AF may have calmed down of its own accord once I was more fully recovered from Covid (which had put me into persistent AF). It didn't calm down enough to forgo an ablation.
Since then, three months ago, I am definitely having much less AF -- 40% of the time compared to 100% a year ago; that is, 40% apart from three weeks after getting winter Covid + flu jabs together, which put me back in AF 24/7 nearly full time for those three weeks. I don't know if the big reduction is due to ablation + flecainide or the ablation alone. One way to find out is to stop taking flecainide. I'm still having too much AF for my cardiologist to go along with that.
I need to read more about the vagus nerve. I've been shown the Valsalva manoeuvre but usually forget to do it when in fast AF; I'm better at remembering to do deep breathing. TENS, eh? 85% reduction is impressive.
Totally unrelated to AF -- I was talking to a vet about why one of my cats gallops after using the litter tray. His take on it was that elimination stimulates the vagus nerve and that makes her gallop. I just looked up Valsalva and saw that it's also used to 'increase colonic pressure', in other words as a stimulus to elimination.
I have been teetotal since six months into my AF. Even the smallest amount can trigger an episode. I have the most fabulous non-alcoholic sparkling wine which really does taste like the real thing. In the summer my husband and I were drinking our respective brands with his being alcoholic and he passed me the wrong glass (both pink). In fairness I thought it tasted a bit off but I drank it down and within 10 minutes I was in AF. For me it is an absolute trigger.
Yes, that's the immediate effect I was expecting when I finally had my first cautious glass of wine after many months. So far it hasn't happened.
You left out the most important bit: what's the name of the fabulous non-alcoholic sparkling wine????? I've tried a few but have been underwhelmed by all of them so far. I find them all too sweet.
Hope this helps! Really makes you feel part of it!
Darling Cellar Ltd
Thank you, I'll keep an eye out for it.
I find a drink or 2 helps with AF( in my case). l know we are all different ll feel very lucky after reading some of the replies !
Been in permanent afib 5 years +. Eat drink and be merry oho life's too short anyway so enjoy whatever you you like doing. I'm 71 and symptom free and taking channel blockers and apixaban and doctors advise to carry on and enjoy life to the full.I practice yoga and swim 3 times a week and walk the dog daily.
Merry Xmas to all
TracyAdminPartner
Hello, Triggers for AF will vary on an individual basis, however, it is known that stimulants such as alcohol, caffeine, nicotine and even stress can have an adverse effect on the heart and contribute towards an episode. For further information, download our 'AF & You' booklet: api.heartrhythmalliance.org...
booklet
Hi,
Good day, and hope this finds you well. Here is my experience.
Just over 3 yrs ago I started suddenly one night in Afib..Off to the accident unit and I was treated and diagnosed. Pulse 166, which they brought down and sent me home and I was listed as fast access to our cardiology unit
I was Ok as I had minimal synptoms, had a healthy diet and was a runner ( 5 and 10K runs most weeks, non stop. I was 67 ). Fast track took 6 months and I had a telephone consult at first. My pulse had come down to about 90, which was high for me, as before Afib it was about 50 due to my running. That said I was still in Afib and was listed for an ablation. I drank, but only the occasional glass of wine. I cut out caffene.
I saw the consultant prior to ablation who said I had long standing persistent Afib..As I was in Afib and nothing stopped it I figured the odd glass of wine made no difference. In fact having minimal symptoms meant I did not stop doing anything, including travel. My ablation put me back in NSR and it lasted a week and I was back in Afib, pulse still about 90!!...Again my pulse was monitored, but I had been in Afib now about 2 yrs constantly.
They decided to do a cardioversion 6 months later which I felt would be a waste of time..Anyway I had it and they put me in NSR. That was February and I have been fine ever since apart from a brief 2 hour period when under a lot of strees, I had a bout of Afib, but I self converted back to SR...Since my Cardioversion in February I have never touched alcohol...I may have only had to odd drink, but its probably a trigger for me, so I am taking no chances and it seems to be working !!
All the best
When I had cardioversion a year ago, someone in a nearby bed was asking the nurses whether he could have a drink THAT NIGHT. I was speechless. What surprised me even more was that they didn't read him the riot act; my recollection is that they told him 'please try to wait at least a day.' I was planning to wait six weeks, but my cardioversion failed on day 4.
I presume your question is aimed at getting a feel for how it might affect you. If so, your question is futile. We say it time and time again, we're all different so you'll get a variety of answers and you won't know whether any provide an insight on how it will affect you. I've had an episode after moderately overindulging but drank various amounts without an episode on other occasions. So, is it dose related or are there other factors that have a positive or negative effect, which decreases or increases the chances of my alcohol consumption coinciding with an episode? Didn't matter for me. I just gave it up anyway as it's one less thing to worry about.
Same. I gave up alcohol 2 years ago. I now drink 0-0 and genuinely don’t miss it.
some say yes, some say no..maybe , maybe not. I read yesterday that a study of long term use of Omeprazole increased dementia risk by 30% ..frightening but then study of butter 25 years ago said increased chances of Heart attack..I have AF but not even sure what an “episode” is?
hi I don’t have AF, but I do have SVT and accompanying ectopics. Both are managed by Dronedarone Multaq and bisoprolol 2.5. In 10 months no further instances of SVT but I still occasionally get the ectopics. My triggers are alcohol, caffeine, intense exercise, stress and eating too much / too late.
I gave up all alcohol and now drink 0-0 versions. I gave up all forms of caffeine and I have the occasional cup of decaf but mainly I drink berry tea and have 2 to 2.5 litres of water every day. I stopped high intensity exercise and now do power walking steady state exercise. I practise meditation and philosophy and finally I have cut back on food and we eat much earlier and only go to bed 3-4 hours after last eating. In the last 2 years I have lost and kept off 2.5 stone.
Hope this helps
Jezza
Have you joined a monastery? Sorry..interesting wonder if monks suffer from health problems 🤔
I dont have data but I would not be surprised if they have considerably longer and healthier lives. I dont live the life of a monk but im now in my mid 50’s and I want at least another 30 good years. The way I look at it is that I’ve had 35 years of partying, drinking, takeaways etc. If my body is now telling me to moderate and or abstain then fair enough. I dont subscribe to “if it’s your time it’s your time”……if your time is 20 years early and due to a HA or stroke because of lifestyle choices.
But each to their own and I respect everyone’s choices.
Alcohol has never been a trigger for me, but if it was I would stop drinking (moderate intake) immediately. I would miss it though!
When I was diagnosed I was advised to reduce my alcohol intake so out went the small glass of wine I used to have with our evening meal and I haven’t missed it (or the slow gin I used to make). I’d rather be AF free as I virtually am on the Flecainide I take now.
The delayed effect of alcohol causing Afib is likely due to metabolic by-products (like acetaldehyde). See this research paper: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/275...
Best to go teatotal or in my case, cannabis tea total. Haha.
I've been saying all year that if all I wanted was a buzz, I'd bake magic brownies or similar. It's the actual taste of wine with food that I miss, and that is almost impossible to replace.
Thank you for the useful link.
I have come to wonder whether the studies that suggest a small drink will "trigger" AF are reporting accurately (and also wonder at the word "trigger" regarding this complex condition). I doubt a small drink will trigger AF at all.
After all, the cause of an AF episode is complex involving physical cellular changes in the cardiac muscle cells (which are often chronic and obesity and BP related), as well as in the ion transport mechanisms in the cells. That a drink will cause this seems unlikely. In the only large study I have found, basically no AF sufferer was able to securely identify any trigger, with around a third guessing at what it might be.
That alcohol is an immediate cause (as opposed to, say, AF being a result of binge drinking or long-term heavier alcohol use) seems unlikely for another reason. The kind of people who drink regularly and modestly are very numerous, i.e. those drinking maybe one glass on several days a week. This many AF sufferers will drink reasonably regularly and modestly. Could it be that those people feel the need for a relaxing drink, for example, and that there somewhat more nervous temperament is what gives rise to their AF? These are the kind of people who likely to enjoy the calming effect that a drink containing alcohol produces.
So, it is possible that AF is more common in anxious people, rather than in those who drink modestly? I think I prefer that explanation since many here have said that they drink with zero ill effect. Me included.
Steve
Almost all AF originates in the pulmonary veins, not some complex cellular change in the heart. This is all electrical. That's why your PV's are the first things burnt/frozen during an ablation. Also, vagal nerve irritation from drinking can trigger these haywire electrical signals, thats why vagal maneuvers work sometimes to end an episode.
Even if you are low on electrolyte's and your calcium/potassium/sodium channels in your heart are starving for them, the errant signal that triggers an attack will come from the PV's unless you have persistent or permanent AF.
I was told and have since read that changes in the cardiac myocytes - especially those around the entrance to the PVs are where AF originates. I understood vagal manoeuvres can stop other SVT arrhythmias but not often AF (which might itself be part of the other SVT).
Please can you point me to studies to explain what you have said? I'd be grateful.
Steve
Vagal maneuvers most certainly work (sometimes). The goal of the maneuver is to reset your rhythm so your HR comes down, then deep breathing and relaxing as you gauge your HR until you hit a HR that triggers you back into SR. Now, when my AF was triggered by alcohol, no vagal anything worked, it had to run its course. When my AF was triggered by dehydration or stress vagal maneuvers definitely got me on the path back to SR. My Electrophysiologist even showed me the ones that worked the best. The problem is once the heart is triggered it will keep occurring until treated. If not treated it will restructure the heart and become persistent/permanent and treatment is less positive.
Yes, binge drinking and long term heavy drinking are in a separate category.
I wonder about chronic pain and AF, too. The youngest person I know who developed AF is also a chronic pain patient. And can definitely be described as highly strung0.
I've never used alcohol to relax or cheer up (e.g. in lockdown on my own). If I'm upset, the last thing I want is a drink.
I find a drink can relax me. It's hard to say how or why as I don't drink much at all, and if I ever have then there's nothing useful comes of it, only that initial sense of relaxation.
Steve
Some wonderful contributions here, so just like to add my three penny worth.
I saw a top cardiologist five years ago for my Afib and confessed to drinking a bottle of strong Aussie Shiraz each day - out of boredom when i retired at 70.
He advised I cut back to three.
I embarked on a challenging US 'cure' - zero alcohol for two years, strict diet, lots of daily excise, etc -
I still have Afib and take the tablets with an annual review.
I've been back on a bottle a day for a year now with no additional symptoms.
I'm 81 now, a carer, and pretty fit.
I've not eaten red meat or poultry for 30 years, so maybe this helps,
I just hope the assisted dying legislation zooms through as i prefer to conk out
here rather than go to Switzerland.
Your cardiologist advised you to cut back to three what? Three bottles a week, or three glasses a day?
Clearly you are immortal, or from a much tougher generation. If I drank a bottle a day, I'd expect to be in hospital within a week.
I'm with you entirely about assisted dying. I hope it will be widely available by the time I'm 80, if I live that long, if civilisation lasts that long.
Good grief, yes! I haven't touched my beloved wine in 10 years after realizing it was my main trigger. As far as manifesting, my a-fib episode would start almost exactly 5 hours after consuming.
Yes, that was the sort of direct connection/quick effect I was wondering about, which doesn't seem to be happening to me.
Lucky you that it doesn't affect you!
I hope that's the case, but I am proceeding with great caution. No knocking it back like the bygone days of "wine o'clock." (I was never that bad, really; stayed just about within the guidelines most of the time.)
Well those "stay within guidelines" is for birds, says my younger self! I don't really miss it now, though it would be nice to have a glass now and then. However, my fear of having an episode outweighed my desire to consume it. Yes, proceed with caution as you say, and if it's not a trigger, then go for it.
I am 71 yrs old.I have been an alcoholic for 40 years. 3 years ago I had a few episodes of tach and started getting random ectopic beats.
I then quit drinking for 6 months and lost 35lbs. All symptoms vanished. Foolish me thought that the problem was fixed and commenced drinking heavy again. Persistent afib then ensued and has been with me ever since. I have been sober now for 2.5 years and never touch a drop of alcohol. It is not only a trigger for me, but the root cause of my afib.
Well done for 2.5 years of sobriety. I hope the persistent AF remains manageable.
I'm sure that quitting will make you healthier in a lot of ways besides (hopefully) having less a-fib episodes. Congratulate yourself on going 2.5 years without it.
Thanks for the vote of confidence and you are correct . I now exercise for 2 hours a day without any difficulties pertaining to the afib. Getting closer to my goal weight and am in my best physical shape in 30 years. Sometimes difficulties in life bring out the best in us.I hope that you are all doing well.
Such great news to hear about your weight goal and physical condition. I'm fine -- thanks for asking. Take care!
Alcohol, at the beginning, was my only trigger and it didnt happen every time I drank. It was paroxysmal and self corrected in 1-6 hours. Sometimes the same night I drank (longer episode), sometimes the next day (shorter). I cut back a lot and I was only triggered if I had one or 2 beers two days in a row (short episodes). I quit drinking and thought I'd be good, then I was a little dehydrated after playing golf (hadnt drank in over a month), which triggered my first non-alcohol AF (lasted about an hour). I had one or two more episodes like this and knew it was time for treatment,
I had an ablation over a year ago and havent had any AF at all, but I haven't pushed anything by drinking anything more than one or 2 drinks a month, except once. I got an fluttery feeling one day over the summer after drinking 3 beers over the course of an entire day. It was weird because my HR never went over 100 and only when I laid down did it kick it. I'd sit up and it would calm, Fluttery being totally different than the persistent thump of symptomatic AF.
If you have short duration self correcting paroxysmal AF, consider ablation as an first line treatment. If it gets to persistent/permanent your chances of long term relief are lower.
I had short duration self-correcting paroxysmal AF for around 12 years. I didn't even take drugs except as PIP, so ablation at that time seemed like total overkill. Then I caught Covid (2023) and it became persistent.
First ablation three months ago -- three weeks in NSR (for the first time in over a year), followed by lots of ectopics and breakthrough episodes, possibly not helped by having both a Covid shot and flu shot six weeks after ablation (I did ask cardiology first and they said I could go ahead as long as I felt all right). Now it's calming down again, but the pattern of breakthrough AF has been such that I'm back on the list for a second ablation, unless it clears up completely in the meantime.
Yes, flutter is a different sensation from the persistent thump. I know them both well now.
My cardiologist gave his blessing for no more than two small glasses of wine, with food, not more than twice a week (wine with food has always been my preferred way of drinking). I haven't pushed the limit and would avoid doing it two nights back to back. Some weeks I don't have any; other weeks I have some once, not twice. I didn't have any at all for eight weeks after ablation, but that didn't prevent breakthrough AF. Sigh...
I think we’re lucky if we can definitely identify a trigger. Iv sent myself nearly insane in the past trying to pinpoint what sets an episode off for me and up to now never been able to clearly identify one unfortunately.!!
Yup. In previous years I tried deliberately to induce AF to coincide with wearing a 24hr monitor to pin down very elusive paroxysmal AF. Deliberate inducement never worked.
Ha ha ha. Meee too. How funny. I was paroxysmal at the time and I had the Holter Monitor for 5 days. So knowing my symptoms always take a couple of days after the drink to flare up, I started drinking the day before the monitor was due to arrive. Only a couple of pints, which would m normally have been sufficient to trigger a response, but then gradually upped it a little bit each day throughout the period, but it positively refused to respond and of course bugger me, the day I sent the Holter back, bang!!!
Sulphites, red wine, alcohol, spices, food intolerance, exercise?? the list is endless and its really age and bad genes coupled with bad luck that causes Afib. I wouldent fret too much about trying a moderare amount of alcohol as if it causes it it causes it so its your decision in the end!! if it does not then you can have your drink with a clear mind. I drink 0% Guinness when I am driving etc though the real reason people drink alcohol is because it relaxes them and assists them in having a good time, in short its a drug legalised and readily available and I also enjoy a few alcoholic drinks for exactly the same reason. You have to look after your health but you also need to enjoy your life or whats left of it.
Sorry to say but any alcohol tips me over. Thinking I was having an Addams 0.5% Isuddenly found myself a bit dizzy and uncomfortable. Checking the can I found it was full strength. Took a couple of days before I felt well again. I’m envious of those that can still have a pint or a glass of wine but don’t think the risk is worth it. Stay dry!
Sometimes the 0.5% stuff triggers me, so I'm on the 0.05% stuff with an occasional can or bottle of the 0.5% stuff. Friends ask what it's like and I tell them it's like watching porn on the radio.
it’s the ethanol that causes the afib so be careful also with some mouthwashes, cough syrups and lozenges, always check the ingredients.
You have to work it out yourself based on your observations, as everybody's different. For me it's not just about the number of units. A certain type of beer (craft IPA) triggers on far lower levels of consumption, than say lager. Unfortunately those levels are very low. Don't know why, it just does. Trouble is I get confident if say I have a pint on Friday, Saturday and Sunday and get no episodes, so then go for it again the following weekend and bang. So now my limit appears to be around 440ml of 3.5% lager on a Friday and then again on the Sunday. Anything in excess and my ectopic levels increase by 300% and can possibly lead into an attack. I didn't drink at all for a month and went away on Hols and had 3 and a half pints spread over 9 days. And then a couple of days after my last drink bang. AFib for 18 hours. I did later discover that although I'd been told the beer strength was low, it turned out to be 5.75%! It's always a couple of days after a drink though, rather than the same night or next day. No idea why.
Alcohol is definitely a trigger for my AF. Additionally, hard liquor is worse than beer or wine. For 14 years of AF episodes I have kept occasional social drinking to a minimum. After my fifth ablation I decided to curtail it further and the results have been very positive for the last 8 months. It is certainly not the only trigger out there, but I suspect it is a strong one for many of us! My thought these days "I'm rolling the dice when I have alcohol", so I have a "near beer" instead or better yet water!
hmmm interesting question! As many have responded alcohol affects each differently.
My AF was 100 percent alcohol created. I have heart scarring. Alcohol is toxic to the heart and causes scarring. I have no other risk factors. I enjoyed my fun filled party days for best part of 50 years. That ended 7 years ago. 7 cardioversions, 1 ablation (where he saw the extensive scarring) which causes more scarring. Flunked every anti arrhythmia Rx, and now have an AV node ablation and am PM dependent. Alcohol does not impact the PM, but still impacts the heart. I drink wine spritzers or Prosecco. No more hard liquor. I accept my diagnosis as Cleveland Clinic says I am out of options. I exercise weekly, travel, get a little SOB...but I manage...quite well. Other friends with AF drink a lot with no obvious reaction. Ride or die? I choose ride....albeit a bumpy one as I am in persistent AF at 75 yoa! Good luck 💔
My AF started 20 mths ago and initially was only triggered by alcohol.
My cardiologist advised me to drink no more than 2 units of alcohol a day and no more than 7 units per week.
When I did that my episodes dropped from approx 1 per month to none for 5 months.
My situation has worsened in that I now have episodes arising from stress and hard exercise - but as I am almost asymptomatic I’m luckier than those whose episodes cause distress.
Alcohol, good question, and very individual I suspect (as it seems all “triggers “ are). I can drink beer in moderation (as always), and wine-both red and white. I haven’t tried gin yet (to my dismay), but bourbon seems to be a mono (2/2 experiences). Makes me think all the different congeners in various alcohol concoctions may be more to blame than just the alcohol?
JimF
In NSR for 21 months now and went virtually teetotal for 3 years I have been indulging with a glass of of wine or once 2 with a meal out on month long hol .had to be careful what wine and even a brandy occasionally.Seemed to be ok but about week before we came back I had 2 glasses of red wine & got palps & ectopics so none since.
Got used to not drinking over 3 years & so I thought why bother.
I used to be a very heavy drinker before AFib.
I have had PAF for the past few years. After a successful ablation nearly 20 months ago, I ceased having alcohol. Any alcohol consumed can increase the risk of AF returning, giving alcohol up was a simple lifestyle choice for me. I never drank daily so it wasn't too difficult. My cardioogist confirmed my comments above as well. Every day without AF is a good day to be enjoyed.
Red wine can trigger me sometimes so only have half a glass a few times per week with dinner. I will have one or two beers socially occasionally but no more. Cardiologist told me the latest guideline for AF was no booze whatsoever.
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