1st ablation done in March last year, was in AF a week after ablation but nothing since, up until last night. Came off all meds approx 4 weeks ago, since Saturday I have been having strange beats but nothing came up on the Kardia. Been very tired lately and felt like I have a bit of a cold and last night I woke at 3.45 am and felt heart racing, checked on Kardia and it said 145 bpm Atrial fibrillation. Lasted about 4 hrs and now I am back in NSR at 87 bmp. I have recently been signed off by the EP so not sure what I should do? Could it be a one off or has the pathway now been made for more AF? Feel so down and have taken this badly ☹️ PS. I did not take any meds and the NSR returned on its own.
Return of the AF: 1st ablation done in... - Atrial Fibrillati...
Return of the AF
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stoneyrosed
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BobDVolunteer
You must know that this is always a possibility but the good news is that it worked for quite a time. It may be a one off but even if not, since you have had one ablation then you will know how easy it was so a second touch up will not be so daunting. If I were you I would try to ignore it for now but if it happens again then contact your EP's secretary, preferably by e mail in the first instance.
PS it may be you are carrying an infection or virus which can do this.
Thanks for quick reply Bob. Yes I emailed EPs secretary this morning with the Kardia reading, his day off is Wednesday so hopefully he will reply tomorrow. It is difficult not to feel despondent having come through the first 9 mth relatively unscathed. Will take your advice try to ignore this episode and keep on trucking. Just worried that the PV has reconnected which does seem likely. Thanks again Bob.
Can't remember but was yours a cryo? Not uncommon to need an RF touch up as cryo quite limited in what it can do.
Yes Bob it was a cryoablation, the EP said I will be fine to have a second ablation if I run into any trouble. Also just to say I hope my post does not put off other people thinking of having an ablation, I still think it is the best option out there. Also like you say Bob it is quite common to need a second touch up ablation which I have read gives a better chance of success. Cheers Bob for always been there. 👍
I think it’s unfair for you to feel the pressure of putting people off stoney. Your just giving an honest assessment of what’s happened to you. If that puts people off then so be it. Who’s to say that it wouldn’t have prevented those people from going through what you’ve gone through?
I’ll be honest I’m starting to wish I hadn’t bothered myself . Mainly due to the amount of time I’ve needed to have off work and the pressure this has put on me mentally. Also due to the fact that even after 5 months I’m still not showing any absolute outright signs of genuine improvement from before. I know people will say your still early in recovery but to be honest it doesn’t make any difference to me and doesn’t make it one bit easier.
Hi Elli, Thanks for your kindly comments. Yes the first 3 months of the recovery period was very testing but I felt I was getting somewhere, and if I am honest if I was offered a second ablation tomorrow I would take it. I think it is probably the nearest to some kind of cure that we can get. I will stay off the meds for now and wait for instructions from the cardio nurse whenever he replies to my email. Hope your AF stays clear keep the faith and a Happy new year 👍
Ok cool! No worries and good luck 👍
Just so you know as well, I’m still off meds. All I did was take them for 2 days to steady me through the roughest patch and now I’m back off. Just thought this early days in coming off them and then to get covid it was probably a good idea to help my heart through it and it’s worked this far 👍
I always feel it is best to ask your cardio nurse for advice first when taking and retaking meds. Maybe I am wrong and your prob right in taking the bull by the horns in your recovery. 👍
Yeah I agree stoney and your probably taking the right approach. I’m in a bit of a crap mood today though so apologies if I sound blunt but to put it frankly if I spoke to my nurse or doc every time I needed a decision made I’d probably be dead! they’ve been pretty generic and overall pretty useless this far and every decision that’s been made this far has been made by me so I’m just continuing that way! What will be will be quite Frankly! Whether that’s a good idea or not is another matter but I’m not sure i care either way anymore.
Sorry rant over!
No I know exactly where your coming from. It seems so difficult to get professional medical advice of anybody doesn’t it? Remember the time you could go see your gp the same day and get things done. It is a horrible condition to have, as it is so random, you can feel ok one minute the next you feel it is the end days 😁. It seems to us afibbers that we are not taken serious enough. Maybe there is a good reason for that, despite the horrible symptoms maybe we have to remember it is not a life threatening condition. My cardio nurse is rather flippant and I only get a short sentence of advice which is frustrating. But look there are people definitely in worse positions than us, keep smiling 👍
Yeah I totally agree stoney that it’s not life threatening in the sense that it will kill you but under the right circumstances it can certainly be severely life damaging. When your 35 and have a young family to look after and support financially but you cant work it makes things a hell of a lot more complicated. The pressure soon piles on trust me. When there’s no end in sight and no money has been coming in at all for 5 months you really start to feel the pressure to get back. Obviously doctors won’t be taking this type of problem into account.
There are most certainly people in worse positions 100% but there are also many people in better 😂
Hear you Elli! It's dispiriting when the outcome isn't as hoped. Personally I'm glad to feel around 60% better most of the time but also profoundly grateful for a good arrhythmia nurse and to have my name on the list for a top up. I feel better enough if you get my drift, to go through it again. Onwards!
Good news that you feel 60% better singwell! I wish I did. I probably feel 60% worse if I had to guess. Bad enough to not be able to go back to my day job. I’m gonna have to soon though whether I’m better or not!
I would have another if I knew I’d recover faster but obviously that’s not possible to know so I’m not sure if I’m going to be able to do this again financially. I can’t have another 6 months to a year off work. I’m self employed so I don’t get a penny!
Ah, I'm sorry to hear that re feeling worse. Not why you did it is it? It definitely took me 6 months to start to feel that much better and we run a home business here so I do understand about the income issues. I'm concerned about taking time off again for the top up but we were fortunate to have a good 18 months in the pandemic and will be able to manage. Have you gone back to you cardiologist or EP and uttered the magic words - unable to earn my living? This is what got attention in my case.
I’m assuming your husband can run the business while you recover though? That’s our main problem is my business is all me and my mrs doesn’t work at all 😫 she gave up when we had the kids as my income is more than enough. Well as it turns out clearly not enough when something like this happens! Wish I’d gotten health insurance years ago 🤦♂️
I haven’t uttered those magic words yet no but I will be soon if things don’t improve. Starting to feel rather desperate. Not sure if it’s the covid over the last week or what but it’s playing havoc with my nervous system and causing all sorts of feelings that are really not helpful right now 😫
Very sorry to hear this and speaking personally I do understand about the impact of anxiety. It's almost worse than the AF itself. Yes, husband can do the admin when I cannot work but we had to pay an Associate Trainer to cover for me when for the first 3 months post ablation
Hi Elli, I hear you!! I feel the same way as you about your medical decisions. I essentially have to be in charge of my meds and continually record everything that I experience. It's difficult to get in touch with nurses, so I like your approach. I wish that my drs would start over with my medical regimen.
Desprrate
I hope that you will stay in NSR henceforth. Christmas / New Year holiday period is trying both physically and emotionally. Do not stress yourself and seek positive comfort. All the best.
Hi there.I'm due to have a cryoablation in a few months and your post doesn't put me off at all. What bobd has said is what I am expecting.
I can COMPLETELY understand your disappointment (in reality I'd be the same) but I would (objectively) tend to see it as a positive to be out of af for a year without a second procedure thus far.
Well done you.
And good luck with contacting your EP. Let us know how you get one.
Best wishes to you 🌸
Thanks very much. And the very best of luck to you with your ablation.
I thought cryo was the new way it was being done .
Yes because it is faster than RF but very limited. If your pulmonary viens are not all nice and tidy and regular the balloon can miss areas and of course if there are other areas in the atrium firing off then these can't be reached other than by RF.
Many EPs will try cryo first as they can do two in the time it takes to do one RF but with the proviso that RF may be needed later to deal with any areas missed.
Sounds like good advice from Bob, hope you stay in rhythm now. Keep us informed of your progress please.
I will indeed Jean, and I will keep you informed of my progress. Very kind of you to reply. Happy new year x
Hi stoney!
Sorry to hear that your back in af. You mention you have a cold? It’s sounds eerily similar to what I’ve been going through and we are roughly the same amount of time coming off meds also. How long have you had the “cold?” I thought I had a cold and cough 2/3 weeks ago. Now I have full blown covid and it’s playing absolute havoc with my heart. I’ve had bad bouts of tachy and had to take meds to calm it down but so far no af 🙏 the covid is going through me like there’s no tomorrow! Rocking the boat beyond belief!
You may find that your cold develops into covid atleast mine did. If you need to just take the meds. I didn’t want too but I knew if I didn’t then chances were it was going to progress into af.
Sorry to hear that you have covid Elli and hope you're soon feeling better.
Thanks Jean appreciate it 👍
I had an ablation for atrial flutter in October 2020. I was signed off and all good - until Covid a couple of weeks ago. I’ve had a couple of episodes of tachycardia and waiting on ecg and blood tests.
It’s playing havoc with my ticker. Have you recovered from covid now? It’s only been a week but it just won’t sod off! Feels like it sits in your lungs and just won’t come out not matter how much you cough 🤦♂️
Try NAC for the cough. Hope you feel better soon. My daughter who lives in London came down with covid just before Christmas. She still has a lingering cough but not as bad. It was probably Omicron as she had been in contact with someone who'd had Omicron. She also had covid in the first wave of 2020. All in all she got off lightly . It came on just after she got her booster jab - probably the drop in immunity for a while after didn't help. It's all very well urging people to have boosters. The government should also inform people that their chances of catching it in the 2 weeks after the booster are upped considerably . I saw several people on tv who had been jabbed just before Christmas expressing satisfaction that they could now enjoy their family Christmas without risk. Quite the opposite. In the two week period after the jab they need to be extra careful .
Hi auriculaire. Thanks for the well wishes 👍 to put it bluntly we have a word in the English language perfectly suited for people that you describe……… idiots! 🤦♂️🤣
Yes but why were they the ones who the BBC were obviously putting forward as good citizens who had offered up their arms for the booster? I am sure that they vox pop several people then the editors choose the ones they think are best - why choose the idiots?
I have absolutely no idea 🤣 probably because the bbc is full of them as well!
Yes - still coughing and really dull ache in my legs! The tachycardia is the bit that I find worrying - I had Covid between 16- 24th Dec.
Yes the tachy is nasty. Luckily I think it’s abated for me now 🤞 hope you continue to improve 👍
That's interesting to read about your long-standing cough and cold. I got mine with a lost voice, likely from my grandson, on December 8th, with my wife getting similar on her birthday December 20th. We still have it, or something similar with a terrible cough and sinus troubles, especially in the night and, three days ago were started on Amoxil 500mg, which seems to be working slowly. All LF covid tests have been negative, and my son, who has tracked us with a similar cold, is negative, too with PCR testing throughout as he's a teacher.
I think I'll do another test this morning in the light of your post!
Steve
Yeah it’s been dragging on but it’s strange how all came about as me and my boy had the coughs/cold few weeks ago with all tests coming back negative and since last Thursday/Friday I got REALLY sick I.e flu like and ALL tests positive. Pcr came back positive and all lateral flows that I’ve done from then till now also. It’s a pain up the a** to say the least! Constant cough but very little coming up and same sinus problems as you describe. Worst bit is probably the disorientation when standing now though.
I had a bit of the disorientation, but that was something my wife struggled with. Our doctor said it was likely sinusitis and, two days on, the antibiotics do seem to be doing something useful although I coughed silly again in the night.
I'll do that test this morning. The new omicron strain is all around us here, but, thankfully, it's really looking to be much less serious, health-wise, compared with the potential of the delta one. I read a study yesterday which confirmed that it is far more generally infectious, but stays in the upper respiratory tract - which is exceptionally good news for us all, in fact, the very best news about covid since the pandemic began.
Steve
Yes I’ve heard it’s far less deadly which is good. If what I’ve had has been the omnicron though then I’d hate to think what delta would have done to me!
My brother's wife tested positive yesterday having caught it from their daughter. He's expecting to catch it now - both unvaccinated, sadly, despite mionths of my trying to convince him there are no microchops in the vaccine!
Steve
Unfortunately if someone thinks that way it’s almost impossible to convince them otherwise 🤦♂️
It’s proven to be the case. It’s odd really as I’ve always been seen as the clever one but now I’m just a clever Dick who listens to the MSM and is easily duped.
Luckily - and thankfully! - for them both, the new variant is what they’ll have and get off lightly. Of course, that will reinforce his cynical beliefs.
Steve
I don't understand this fixation with microchips . Nobody seems to have been able to come up with any actual chips and I amk sure there are people in a position to do so if they were present! The people with actual scientific credentials who express doubts about these vaccines never mention microchips.
Actually, I think the microchip idea is one of many that are being quietly forgotten about by the conspiracy crowd. Their belief system, such as it is, lacks coherence or rationality. I've often thought that those who lead it, the likes of Icke, etc., are quietly laughing at how easily they have been able to manipulate so many people. It's only the Internet that has allowed people with these odd beliefs to be able to feel that they are in a community of like-minded enlightened types, rather than being the odd ones out.
Steve
Hey Elli : my old mucker, I’m so sorry to hear about you trials and tribulations, in recent times. You sound as if you’re going through some real turmoil. As I’ve previously informed you, I haven’t had any procedures, so can’t advise on that score I’m afraid. From what you say, it sounds like you get no financial aid towards your living costs. Surely you’re entitled to some assistance. We all have to live and I’m sure you’ve paid into the kitty, in good measure. Your plight has disturbed me no end and although I’m not a religious person, I pray for good times to return to you and yours. Lots of love from the North. 😉
Hi ticker!
Thanks for the kind words mate. Much appreciated.
Yes it’s been bloody hard so far I’m not going to lie. Getting harder by the day at the minute. Need to get back now. Going to have too one way or the other once covid buggers off I think. 🤦♂️
Your right I don’t get any financial help. I’m a business so unless I pay myself sick pay I’m screwed 🤣 wish I could pay myself sick pay but I’ve already exhausted the business of all funds that I can! Now eating into my personal savings which is giving me bloody nightmares. Worked my a** off to build it up and now it’s just slowly being eaten away due to my health 🤦♂️
I’m not religious either but if things don’t make a rapid recovery then I may be by the end of all this!
Hey E. Have you tried Citizens Advice. I tried there years ago, when I was somewhat struggling. I was totally surprised to find that I had a private (although small) pension. I’d converted over from SERPS, donkeys years ago and forgotten about it. It turned out I had 25K to be dwelling over. Was totally shocked. I claim PC which helps me out no end. Give it a whirl and you could be spending like the clappers (speaking in technical terms).
Thanks for the advice ticker. I will check it out pronto. 25k would be nice right now! 😃👍 think I’ll be lucky to get 25p right now though. Worth a shot atleast. Glad it helped you out and thanks again for advice 👍
Elli...I would send you a few grand but you know how close I live to Scotland and how tight they’re supposed to be. Far from the truth actually. Chin up‼️‼️
🤣🤣🤣 yes they are “supposed” to be! Plus if you live that close youll have to be careful they don’t steal yours 🤣👍
How have you been doing your covid tests? I read somewhere this week that with Omicron it can be better to do the test by swabbing thd back of the throat rather than the nose- less chance of a false negative.
Hi - thank you! Yes I’d read that, too, and, in light of what others had said here, I repeated the test this morning using one of the older test kits which do direct you to use the tonsils. It was still negative, thankfully.
There must be a really bad cough and cold virus doing the rounds up here. The antibiotic is starting to work, though, so it must have been a secondary bacterial infection that followed on from the original cold. Both of us here are thoroughly bunged up with affected hearing and similar.
There’s so much covid around now so keep safe!
Steve
So far in the back of beyond where I live there is still not that much. I follow the case figures for the nearest small town to our village and though there has been a doubling of new cases in the last fortnight it is still only about 15! France as a whole seems to be European champion at the moment though!. O f course you might have had covid and now recovered. My daughter had the two negative tests needed for coming out of isolation but still has a lingering cough .
You might enjoy this paper - just the abstract and discussion - as the rest is so heavily complex. I’m in awe of scientists. It’s looking - fingers crossed - as if the new covid strain is the first really good news we’ve had in two years nearly. It might well allow a return to normality.
biorxiv.org/content/10.1101...
Interesting. I read some of the paper but as you say highly technical. I was reading an article in FranceSoir yesterday about how the current vaccines fall down for transmission because of the type of antibodies produced by the injection method implying that nasal vaccines would be more efficient. This is particularly true for Omicron and indeed there are some stats out from Robert Koch Institute in Germany that Omicron actually prefers the vaccinated. This paper showing much greater affinity for the cells of the upper respiratory tract seems to lead in that direction too. If there is to be a more efficient vaccine for Omicron it maybe needs to start working in the nose producing IgA antibodies !
I suspect we will only use a vaccine on those deemed prone to the pneumonia form of the disease. In fact, if we'd cracked that aspect as successfully as we have - hopefully! - the vaccine aspect, the world might be a quite different place.
Steve
I do not believe for one minute that leaky vaccines that do not prevent transmission can be described as successful cracking! Anyway covid is as much a vascular disease as respiratory and the hypercoagulation aspect is very important. Maybe with Omicron that will be less.
Whatever the weakness of the vaccines, their strength in preventing the development of the severe form of covid is what I meant by “cracked”. We didn’t really need much more from them. The vaccines have kept the health services functioning, thank goodness.
Steve
I remember feeling so disappointed when my 2nd ablation failed after 6 months then again after the third one despite amiodarone and sotalol it never returned to normal.I don't believe there is a cure for afib unless you catch it very early. I choose to take rate control meds and these days although it's always there it's not noticeable most of the time.
Every cardiologist should spend a week with afib as they really don't know how it feels it might not be dismissed as palpitations then
I hope you return to NSR soon or take that 2nd ablation good wishes
Janet
Thanks Janet, yes disappointed doesn’t describe the feeling when afib returns after a longish period. Why ablations work for some but not for others is a mystery. Thank you
Dear Janet. May I ask if the rate control is to lower your heart rate / blood pressure, generally, or for when an AFib episode speeds up the heart rate. I am on Flecainide 2 x 50 mg and I suspect that the episodes will occur at the same frequency even without?Thank you and stay hopeful. That's all we can do for now.
The beta blocker is to slow the heart rate down but at times it lowered it took much sometimes in the 40s or30s so my cardiologist halved the dose of metoprolol to 25mg to be honest I tweak the doses according to how high it gets. The diltiazam 120mg I take at night but if I feel the rate going high or I just feel the heart rate jumping around i will take that earlier in the evening it's the one I rely on to make me feel better faster.
I am always in persistent afib but with these 2 drugs I can function very well.
Thank you Janet. I read some promising reports regarding Dronedarone for rhythm control (I am PAF) and it may be more suitable for my type of AFib. Be well and healthy.
Sorry to hear stoney. I agree it’s so demoralising when Af returns. I too thought ablation was the cure But my Af returned 3 months after. Only once though. But deep down I think it will return again keep strong and maybe seek a 2nd rf touch up ? I asked to see my ep 3 weeks ago. I’ve got a telephone appointment mid April. Bit of a bummer but hey ho
Hi , can I enquire as to what meds and dosages you were on , thst were stopped after the ablation ? Can you describe the strange beats , we’re thry missed beats , then a heavy beat following ?
I was on 2.5 bisoprolol and flecanaide. I weaned off both for several weeks, I have been med free for about 4 weeks.
It may well be due to the infection. My ablation was in Jan 2020. No AF until July 2021, when I had a 4 hour episode which heralded a nasty chest infection, apparently not COVID but the exact same symptoms despite 3 negative tests. Since then, no more AF so I'm hoping it was a one off. Will see what happens when I get Omicron....
I have fingers crossed mine was a one off, but is it not the case that once the pathway has been made by the AF you are likely to get it again? I could be wrong.
Sorry it's back and what a shame. Let us know what the EP says? Best wishes for you that it sorts itself out soon.
I am guessing that the "strange beats" you described were either PVC or PAC, i.e. a premature unfelt beat followed by a slightly delayed heavy normal beat. Everyone gets these a little, I gather, but I think those of us with AF have them more frequently. I was told that the PAC type (originating in the atrium where AF does) can set off AF. Mine seem to have done but only very occasionally, thankfully. My Kardia shows them well if I can catch them.
I have a suspicion that you will be fine once more and that this AF was brought on by the infection and, possible, coughing and sneezing. This can pull badly on the diaphragm and if there's any gas in the stomach or intestines, that will physically press on and irritate the base of the heart. If you are getting any mild tachycardia, your cardiologist might recommend your taking a few bisoprolol to calm things down. Mine did.
Steve
Thanks that’s encouraging to hear, had a better night last night, since the AF I have not had any strange beats. Days leading up to the af attack I was getting loads since AF none, it really is a odd condition.
Only time will tell, but let's hope - or at least that if you do get AF it is very occasional and not too symptomatic or long lasting. That's my own situation. From what I understand of the condition, treatment is a delaying tactic for its eventual inevitable return as it is progressive. My elderly friend, at 88, has has permanent AF for many years and, well, if I'm as fit as he is at 88, I'll be pleased!
My own experience of AF follows my ablation for atrial flutter. I get it only occasionally (last time in Oct / Nov) and for all the world it feels the same as when I have runs of ectopic beats, which is also occasional. I do get regular mild tachycardia and daily ectopic beats, though. My own suspicion is that once the heart muscle gets to the point of becoming "arrhythmic", various heart beat issues can occur and not all of them being AF.
Keep those fingers crossed!
Steve
I think others may tell you they've had one offs within the first 12 months. Good news is it went on its own. I'll let others speak as my own ablation moderately successful only so I know how disappointed you'll be feeling
Thanks singwell hope your right 👍
Hi there,I was told at the outset that I'd probably need a second ablation, which I had two months after as a touch up, sounds a bit like a facelift but without the external benefits!! I just wanted to reassure you it is very normal from what I can understand. Also, it sounds fantastic to me that you went back into a normal heart rate naturally, hopefully it's just a blip. It's easier said than done but as Bob says try to ignore it - I am the world's worst at worrying and have been mithering about ectopic beats, but it seems that if I forget about them, they go away. I've started taking magnesium which seemed to help but it might be just a coincidence. All the very best and try not to worry, you sound like you are on a good path to recovery.
Thanks very much ranobeer, that’s very helpful 👍
I'm not sure which meds you were on, or what you "went on for a few days to steady things out"... but perhaps it's something like Flecainide? If so, maybe you should try staying on that at a lower dose. I've been on a low dose of Flec for a year and a half now after my second ablation, and the heart has been PERFECT. I feel great, no side effects for me anyway. The longer you can keep your heart beating steady and put off a second ablation the better, for multiple reasons. It's always there waiting for you, but techniques keep getting better with time, and you don't want to just keep getting ablations, there IS a limit. So meds are worth considering as long as they work, and then when they don't work, there is ablation.
Thanks for that sdweller, my cardio nurse has today emailed me suggesting the very thing you have written. Basically using flec as a pill in the pocket if I get prolonged episodes. I agree holding out on a second ablation is the right thing to do and who knows what the future may hold regarding cures, how fantastic would that be? Maybe the mini maize procedure might finally be the answer, some good feedback on this very forum. Good luck to you and I hope you continue to feel tip top. 👌
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