In need of answers from others taking Apixaban as to supplements Tumeric and Botswella, anti-inflammatories and pain meds.

[kayberry]

I am getting conflicting information regarding Tumeric and Botswella with apixaban for paroxysmal afib with no episodes for almost two years. Since beginning apixaban two years ago, I have had severe back pain, ankle pain, side pains, lethargy, strange sharp pains in miscellaneous places. Prior to apixaban I took supplements containing Tumeric and Botswella and had no pain whatsoever. I was walking 5 miles daily, now I can only manage 1.5 miles. Tylenol is the only option I have for pain according to doctors which does nothing to phase the pain which is much worse early in the morning and gets less as the day goes along. My internist says it is OK to take Tumeric and Botswella; my pharmacist says no and that 1 in 3 have bleeding problems when taking them. He recommends CBD oil which the internet says is not to be taken with apixaban. Anticoagulation clinic says cannot take any supplements that thin blood. Cardiologist says no blood thinning supplements and suggests Celibrex which has side effects terribly detrimental to heart issues. I am in USA and contemplating the Watchman device to free myself from apixaban. Can anyone help me on this subject? I am totally confused and frustrated. Thank you.

[CDreamer]

Hi - anti-inflammatory meds are known to exacerbate arrythmias, apart from any affect it may have on anticoagulant so it’s a no on that one. Nothing stronger than occasional Paracetamol,

I’ve been on Apixaban for 7 years now and not suffered any aches or pains which I could attribute as an affect. Lots of aches and pains, but with different causes.

I worked with a nutritionist and read up a lot on various substances which reportedly had the potential of increasing the efficacy of anticoagulants such as Apixaban - that’s the risk that there is an interaction between various substances in your body so your Pharmacist will be more informed on that subject than your doctor, most of whom seem curiously ignorant of pharmaceutical interactions which I have learned to my cost, which means now I check everything for myself.

I consulted a very well informed nutritionist/herbalist on this very subject of Tumeric/Apixaban and after researching came to the conclusion that Tumeric and Ginger and similar taken as an infusion such as Tumeric Latte or a tea had no detrimental interactions however supplements usually use an extraction of the active ingredient Curcumin and this most certainly would have an interaction with anticoagulants. Therefore I use Tumeric root and/or a good quality powder as foods - but don’t touch the supplements.

The supplement I have struck upon which works much better for me in reducing inflammation is Resveratrol - I believe to be more affective as an anti-inflammatory and with reduced risk of the possible interactions. It’s less known but there is a lot more interest in this supplement however it also reportedly ‘may’ slow the clotting process. I’m always interested that it’s the pharmaceutical companies which in the main, do the research and write the studies on this subject so therefor will always have a vested interest.

The very few nutritional studies I have come across and read tell a slightly different story, but still acknowledge there is a potential to interact with pharmaceuticals but that you would have to take quite a large quantity of something like Raw Tumeric for that to be noteworthy.

As everyone absorbs and metabolises substances very differently it is really hard to say with any certaintity how any substance will behave and interact in YOUR body because it’s so variable.

All I can say is look at the information, do your own research and weight up the benefits and the risks. The medical profession seems obsessed with Lifespan, personally, probably because I am of a certain age and not interested in extending life for too much longer, I’m far more interested in quality of life. A very personal opinion.

I would also suggest looking at Magnesium Oil applied at night to the muscles/joints which pains appear - good for AF and helps relax muscles.

Hope that helps.

[Hidden]

Hi kayberry, I too got conflicting advice on turmeric use on diagnosis of PAF. I was taking a heavy daily dose, started purely on my own initiative, because of an ongoing and excessively painful frozen shoulder which nothing else was really helping much, and for chronic osteoarthritis for the past 15 years or so. It was marvellous. I was already forbidden anti-inflammatories because of low grade chronic kidney disease and it was a miracle to me to eventually have great results from the turmeric. I am very lucky (if you can couch it in that term), to be in UK where Co-codamol at prescription strength is an alternative but its being an opiod, sadly adds to my general weakness and fatigue as produced by both the PAF and its treatment by beta-blocker and anti-coagulant (Bisoprolol and Apixaban). I just provide this as a bit of context for you.

I can see from all that you have written that you are deeply dissatisfied with taking Apixaban and as such I don't think it's unreasonable to consider the surgical insertion of a Watchman device, if that is indicated for you. As such I'm assuming you've done your preliminary homework and investigated whether it's possible for you, as it's not suitable for everyone.

I doubt very much that you'll find a definite answer on any herbal remedy. My own conclusion on all herbal remedies and supplements is that there is a need to be very cautious The pharma world does not interact much at all with the alternative market, and exaggerated claims for and against, are often made on both sides of the argument.

[Desanthony]

I managed to find a pharmacist who was researching CBD oil when I was diagnosed and told I couldn't take my usual pain killers for my bad back and neck. I had no problems with heart or interaction with anticoagulant - I take apixaban too but have had no side effects that I know of and no more aches and pains than I had before starting apixaban - Elquis. I exercise as much as I can and that does help with the pain. I don't think the CBD oil helped with the pain at all but it definitely had no bad effect on me and it may very well help you. My pharmacist started me on a low dose and gradually worked up and I also used CBD creams on my neck and back and later on my fingers where I have arthritis pain. No I am back to using Tiger Balm and other such creams and taking the odd paracetamol for the pain. I have found that exercise helps the most and over the last week have not been able to exercise so much due to having a septic toe - so can't even wear a shoe on one foot and my back and neck have become bad again. Can't wait for this toe to heal so I can get back to walking and exercising normally again.

[kayberry in reply to Desanthony]

Thank you, Desanthony; that is great information. I will try to locate the Tiger Balm and see if it gives me relief. I seem to have same amount of pain whether I do daily walks or not .. it is very frustrating . I do appreciate your help very much, as well as this forum.

[Desanthony in reply to kayberry]

I also have capsaicin cream but it’s a bit strong, easy to put too much on and you have to be careful not to touch eyes or other tender parts without scrupulously washing your hands first. Have you ever done a pain management course? If there are any around now it is worth doing or getting a referral to a physio which will be able to show you various techniques and recovery positions to help with the pain.