Does annoy on here suffer from AF with Rapid Ventricular Response?
I am so scared that I am going to have a cardiac arrest and I am suffering from extreme anxiety and obtrusive thoughts about death all of the time.
I have now been put o Digoxin and am already on Propranalol and I have had increasing anxiety for over a year. This increased having been left unwell on and off since a viral infection last Feb / March and then by catching Covid in February of this year. I also had some side effects from the Covid vaccine. On top of this I was informed about the loss of two friends and two aquaintances in a period of 6 weeks, The AF has got worse since suffering from gastritis and to be honest I feel overwhelmed, scared and I rarely stop crying. I have not slept well, if at all for months and I do not want to continue feeling this way.
I would like to know if anyone is able to tell me if they have been safe with this diagnosis and, if they are taking Digoxin, how it is for them.
I look forward to any advice and any support that can help me come to terms with this diagnosis and I thank you in advance.
Yes, many of us have this diagnosis and haven’t experienced ill effects other than anxiety and extreme fear - it goes with the AF I’m sorry to say so it’s important to talk about it and find reassurance that although it feels really, really scary - it’s not an immediate, life threatening event as an MI would be.
AF is electrical dysfunction whilst MI is plumbing dysfunction and when the plumbing is blocked the blood can’t get through so it becomes an emergency. Hopefully you will have had all the tests to reassure you that you don’t have CVD - cardio vascular disease.
My HR would increase to 170-180 on a regular basis and stay like that for days. It made my BP plummet and I felt dreadful, but I survived. I’ve never had an MI, I longer have AF but I still have high HR when ill with virus or very stressed.
I have no experience of Digoxin - it is the oldest Medicine for arrythmias known - went out of fashion for many years but seems to be making a come back. My understanding is get the dosage correct for you so you tolerate it well and it helps the AF then it really helps.
Thank you so much for your reply . I developed AF due to Graves and a subsequent overactive Thyroid, in fact, when discovered I had probably suffered from it for years and was in a Thyroid crisis. Thank you again
PS - you have had to cope with a HUGE amount of stress and loss over the last 12 months and that will impact negatively on your wellbeing so you need rest, loving care from others and positive, healing thoughts. May I suggest that you look at a course of Mindfulness Training?
I feel for you and your shower (rainstorm more like) of troubles. I went through a period like this many years ago - family members dying one after another, serious health issues, husband having work problems...... I used to say I felt we were being stomped on from a great height like someone crushing insects. But again, I’m still here and have learned from my troubles. You will get through this and I’m glad you are seeking help and getting it. If you suddenly feel overwhelmed be sure to contact somebody, Samaritans if no one else is available at the time.
I repeat, AF with RVR is scary but if that is your only heart related diagnosis then you are fortunate - you’ll be saying WHAT?! - but it means your heart is basically healthy. If you don’t get on with digoxin and if that is the first medication your doctor has tried be aware there are many alternatives that may be suitable.
AF with RVR is NOT a healthy heart!!!! Because the ventricles are involved if medication doesn't control/stop the misfiring you go into heart failure!! Lies do not help anyone here! Education and action do!
I don’t want to get into an argument but because your reply may have alarmed Sunshine, who is already anxious, I am going to reply. By ‘a healthy heart’ I mean one which doesn’t have plumbing problems such as blocked arteries, valve disease etc. RVR is not good for the heart because if it continues for a long time it strains the heart, so that is why people are prescribed medications such as bisoprolol, diltiazem and digoxin to prevent such an eventual outcome. If Sunshine was having such fast AF that they were suffering from too low BP and passing out they would have emergency treatment to prevent short term heart failure. And if all else failed they would be offered a ‘Pace and Ablate’ procedure which stops the ventricles being affected. And I think I should add that heart failure simply means that the heart is not pumping as efficiently as it should and is not generally a sudden serious event such as a heart attack or cardiac arrest.
I hope that satisfies you, but I would ask that you try to put yourself in the shoes of the OP who may not want to know all the possible bad news when they come asking for comfort 💜
People "sugar coat" and "tiptoe" around everything and it almost killed me years ago! Sunshine52 is better off being told ALL possibilities, getting educated and taking action - you would all be amazed at how knowledge and knowing your own body alleviates the anxiety!! Buffafly - you may be "articulate" well but that doesn't make you wise. You don't know what you're talking about. I lived it AND went to one of the top Heart Hospitals in the country. Thinking they are more credible. Sunshine52 I was in your shoes and it wasn't until I "took charge" of MY heart and my life, educated myself, researched heart doctors and got to know my body did the anxiety go away. P.S. - I had and still have a lot of "Life" issues/stressers going on as well.
I'm new here.. my mum has AF with fvr/rvr (she's 76 and not on the internet) She was diagnosed in October after breathlessness and was admitted by ambulance at the GP surgery 3 times over Oct and Nov (which was a shock for her although she felt very poorly with rates of 160 plus the afib) . It took these 3 admissions to get the medication right and at the last admission was put on Digoxin, along with bisoprolol and apixiban. Her rate is on the low side now at 45 at rest but she is relieved. The only bad blip was in January when she had her covid jab and it all came back with a vengeance the following early morning for 24hrs along with flu like symptoms which are a common usually minor side effect as we know for some people after a flu or covid jab. I think like with yourself having gastritis for example, any illness (in mum's case flu like side effects after jab) can set off the heart it seems when you have afib, rvr. Unfortunately it's scared her into not having another jab as I can only imagine how scary an episode is. She doesn't really socalise and is being careful. She is pro vacc and of course it would be a disaster if she caught covid, but she just can't bring herself to go through it again. I suppose it's different if it happens naturally. I hope you can recover from everything else you've been suffering and that your afib rvr will settle too. Perhaps your dosages could be looked at too.
Having the vaccine so soon after having Covid might have worsened the situation. Here in France the HAS ( our equivalent of NICE) advice is that one should wait at least 3 months after having covid and preferably 6 months before having the vaccine. Then only one dose of vaccine is recommended. Have you tried taking a magnesium supplement? I have found that magnesium has helped a lot with anxiety. I still get afib attacks but my heartrate does not usually go above 160bpm . I do not feel anywhere near as anxious during the attack as I used to and not at all in between.
I’m so sorry to hear about the horrible time you have been having . But the others are correct, scary though it is, AF in itself is not immediately life threatening. The worst that can happen is that you would faint and sometimes it causes heart pain which must be checked at the hospital but is usually not heart attack related. However, I know how scared it makes you feel. My AF has been well controlled with medication and I have easily slipped into complacency. I think I forgot how disabling it can be. Now the medication is no longer working and I am on the list for a procedure..... oh boy, now I remember just how bad it makes you feel!You must make sure that you are on the right medication for you and don’t give up till you are.
You ( we) will be ok, but we have to take control of our treatment to ensure we get the very best.
As someone else said, don’t be alone with this. Keep asking for help and reassurance. X
Thank you so much for the comforting words. I do hope that you get on Ok with the procedure. It feels so nice to hear form others as I feel os alone. I feel that I have been in solitary confinement for a year like so many others
Your never alone on this forum Sunshine always someone to help and give support. You will get there it just takes a while to accept. It did me and I'm fine.
Hi, I was on Digoxin for a couple of months and all OK except my eyes felt a bit blurry and dry. Had to come off as I was prescribed Verapimil as well and HR dropped to low. Seemed to control everything well. Verapimil not having much effect to be absolutely honest.
Hi. Yes, when my AF flares up, it's with RVR. Mine started 5 years ago and I would be on the verge of collapse as my pulse used to rocket to 250bpm. During the first 6 months, I ended up in hospital around 20 times as the meds didn't make any difference at that point. I've had cardioversions hand in hand with Amiodarone which got me back to normal but when taken off it or dosage reduced, the AF was back along with the HR through the roof. During this time I have had to also contend with Achilles tendonitis, kidney issues (including a biopsy), gallstones and occular hypertension (with 3 monthly eye prodding). Prior to that, I was fit as a butchers dog, with only an underactive thyroid for about 16 years (previous Graves but treated with radioactive iodine and now on thyroxine). So, I understand what you're going through. I've been frightened, panicking and been in a dark place on an odd occasion but have been fortunate to snap out of it.
I sense that you were maybe an anxious person before all this started (apologies if I'm wrong) so, as has been suggested, some therapies to help with that side of things could help with the anxiety, which could ultimately help with the frequency of your AF episodes.
I had an ablation 3 weeks ago today and got myself in a panic on the build up to that. It's often the fear of what we don't know that makes things worse so make sure you read up on AF and ask any questions on here as knowledge can be power. Take care.
Hi yes you are right I am an anxious person anyway and I suffer from obtrusive thoughts and post traumatic stress from childhood. I am due to have radioactive iodine and am anxious about being on digoxin which is contra indicated with thyroid problems. I know that I need to relax and come out of this back hole that I find myself in. Thanks for your advice.
I have suffered from anxiety a few times over the years and I’ve had anxiety during this pandemic , due to worrying about catching Covid and it causing my AF to flare up. I have been having hypnotherapy and doing relaxation. I found CBT didn’t work for me. Hypnotherapy has helped me much more, when I’ve had anxiety in the past. . I’ve now had my 2 Covid jabs, so feel much more relaxed and safer. I think, as some have said.It’s the fear of the unknown, that can make us anxious. Hope you find something that will help you to conquer your anxiety.
RVR isn’t a big deal but tends to go hand in hand (at least in my case) with inducible VTACH for which you’ll have to be fitted with an ICD. I would look into getting a good EP to do an EP study to see if you’re inducible. It sounds like you’re a good candidate for ablation and the sooner the better. Afib is progressive. The longer you wait the less effective ablation is. I’ve had two unsuccessful ones but I had afib for 20 years before the technology was available so now I’m on Amiodarone which works wonders. I’m not afraid of it even though it’s a very toxic drug because I’m closely monitored. Also digoxin really isn’t the best choice for afib. There’s many better drugs out there. Sotolol and Tikosyn work very well. Also you should be on a blood thinner. I’m on Xarelto and love it. Nonetheless ablation is your best option in my opinion. Also, please try to keep in mind that afib is never immediately life threatening, but it can eventually, years later, lead to conditions that are. Done worry, you have plenty of time. Just accept the fact that afib is very treatable but it is a lifelong battle and if controlled will not shorten your expected lifespan. Hope this helps
I was recently in the hospital for 7 days with AFib with RVR. Many tests and I was put on tikosyn, which is an antiarrhythmic med. It helps with some of the afib,but I am scheduled to see a cardiac electrophysiologist,to see if I need an ablation. Are you on a blood thinner like eliquis? You should be on one . Having an excellent work up helped me so much. My heart goes out to you and I wish you the best
I am on blood thinners yes and have been for almost two years. I am in such a quandary and my head is all over the place.
AF with Rapid Ventricular Response is NOT the same as AF people!!!!!! I started out with regular AF but it developed into AF with RVR and was diagnosed with it 12 years ago. Unfortunately for me they tried all medications available and none worked. I was going into heart failure. I had a fabulous electrophysiologist and he didn't wait too long with each medication. I finally had a Catheter Ablation procedure that took care of it. I still take Carvedilol, Lisinopril and a low dose aspirin every day but have only had 2 mild episodes of regular AF in the last 10 years. Sunshine52 if your meds aren't relieving thevproblem insist on the cath. ablation! I have ongoing GI issues after the cath. abl. but they aren't life threatening as AF w/RVR can be. Step on toes if need be - it's your life and onky you really know your body and how you feel. You are in charge of your body and health and any decision is ultimately yours - not the docs! Good luck to you!!
Yes, I have AF with RVR. If my heart rate gets over 85 I know I am probably going into AF. I have had AF for over 10 years, at first just sporadically. I didn't know what it was and the ER never caught it. Then after 5 or 6 years, the AF episodes increased dramatically ER was able to record an episode. My heart rate finally got up to 185 and higher. It was just awful. I was on a lot of medications. I had an Ablation 3 or 4 years ago and it never worked but the new drug the surgeon put me on, Flecainide, kept the attacks at bay. It was the first medication to actually do something positive for me. A couple of years later and a new doctor, I got the Watchman device implanted in my heart because they could not stabilize me on blood-thinners. She (the Dr) wanted to do another ablation. She said she thinks the first ablation worked but something came loose. The surgery was planned but the Pandemic hit and we decided to wait because she increased the doses of Flecainide. The increased dosage of Flecainide and the Watchman device was a life changer. (along with Metropolol) I no longer get AF unless illness strikes. Recently during the height of the Pandemic, I suddenly got Diverticulitis. I was admitted to the hospital with AF but soon discovered I needed surgery for diverticulitis. I almost died but not from AF because as soon as the antibiotics were administered for infection, it went away. Also, I also still get AF if I fail to drink plenty of water. If I feel my heart rate increasing I sit down, drink a lot of fluid, usually milk and water and it goes right away within 10 to 15 minutes. Occasionally if it keeps increasing I take Metoprolol. Metoprolol is my "Pill-in-the pocket drug. It is prescribed to me to use ONLY if I have an increased heart rate. It works within minutes and has also been a real-life changer for me. My doctors here at home told me AF was not life-threatening, no worries. But when I traveled to a large hospital in another town for the implant, my doctor there told me that dr's are too casual about that. She said persons with AF are 5 times more likely to have a stroke. And I have already had an MI (heart attack) from a blood clot. But the watchman device works as well or better than blood-thinners. Not only that but I had suffered so long with horrible anxiety and finally severe depression that I was ready to give up on life. Traveling to a huge teaching hospital, getting the ablation (easiest operation I ever had, easier than getting a filling at the dentist, lol), and getting on the right medication saved my life and marriage. Those dark years of my life were something I can hardly talk about. I think most of that was because I live in a very small town and doctors were not educated enough to treat or explain properly and their casual approach to Afib itself helped instill a fear in me I cannot describe. I felt such hopelessness. I now have my life back, am ready to travel again to see my family in another state, life is so good! And it will be for you too! There is no "cookie-cutter" response for correcting AF. I guess everyone is different and responds to treatments differently. You will find the right path for you. I am proof it can be controlled. I am looking forward to another ablation and hoping that perhaps I can reduce the meds. Meanwhile, I will take them and live my life. I will say this. . A doctor told me once that AFib with RVR seems to bring about its own set of anxiety and fear. It's a natural response to 185-200 rate heartbeat. Since taking Metoprolol (for heart rate) I no longer take Ativan for anxiety. Ask your doctor about this type of drug, perhaps that will help you. There are many things they can try and I'm positive you will find the treatment that is right for you.
I thank you for the advice. I feel overwhelmed and uneasy about all of it. The Cardiologist spoke about cardioversion or ablation, however, he does not feel that I am psychologically able to cope with this at the moment.
That’s very condescending 🙁 Has he considered that being denied a possible relief of your symptoms is psychologically bad for you? If you can afford it I would bypass him and see an EP privately to explore your options. There is plenty of advice here on the best way to go about that but I suggest you put up a new post on ‘how to consult an EP privately’. Or maybe change to a more progressive cardiologist. I do agree that it is a good idea to ‘take charge’ of your condition as much as possible.
Yes I have AF with RVR. Very frightening indeed. I went to Drs that made it worse until I found my present Dr. (an EP) that put me on Flecainide, 50mg twice a day and I havent had an AF attack since. It's been 3 yrs.
No, I live in the states. For me, this drug is a miracle. Many AF people use it here in the USA. I hope you can get it. You are required to get a heart scan and a treadmill test to make sure your heart is healthy before using it.
Flec is prescribed over here in the UK. Some folk have success with it but when they tried it on me, I had to come off it after 3 days as it actually made things worse.
Sunshine, I am in the UK and I was put on flecainide, it didn't work for me and caused pro-arrythmia, now on Sotalol and things are much better. I don't think any of them are wonder drugs, it's just what works for you.
OK .... I'm hitting on everything you have suffered from: Anxiety, AFIB and RVR.
Early before AFIB around age 46, I came down with severe Generalized Anxiety Disorder. I used natural means to put it in remission (more on that later).
I never let the anxiety get in my way of managing my life. I got a job when needed ..... after AFIB ... got 4 ablations when needed. And continued life . . .
After 10 years of normal rhythm and peace, I came down with AFIB with RVR in August 2020. I immediately scheduled an ablation with one of the best EP's I could find and had it on OCT 22. Recovering well.
When I saw my consulting Cardiologist prior to the ablation. He really didn't say anything dire about the RVR. Said it wouldn't have much impact on a structurally sound heart .... and that it would disappear with an ablation. Which it did.
Now, back to Anxiety. I had a horrible case: full body twitching for weeks on end. Adrenaline surge that felt terrible. Couldn't sleep .... physical manifestations that needed testing to rule out life changing diseases. Aches and pains everywhere. Thoughts of death and gloom and doom ..... Here's how I put it into remission naturally:
My plan that broke the severe anxiety cycle .... then began the
healing that kept it in remission.
(1) It was so severe that a short session (30 days) of Ativan
barbiturate was needed to break the cycle. No more than that so as not
to get addicted. (This is optional. Perhaps it can be done with some
of the lighter, natural tips below.)
(2) Then, I educated myself on what exactly anxiety is. I read books
written for sufferers on Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) ... and I
ordered some online Anxiety Help courses with MP3's and work books.
Both helped me tremendously to understand what it was. The online help
courses were created by severe sufferers, so they know.
(3) Then, I began to de-stress my life. No politics. No upsetting
news. No TV shows that irritated or hyped me. NO staring at a phone
all day long. I replaced the bad with good: tackling all areas of my
life where I needed help, like sleeping.
(4) My sleep was terrible, so I started doing guided meditation every
day (using famous UK hypnotist Glenn Harrold's CD's. First one was
COMPLETE RELAXATION). I initiated a bed routine. No food or water 3+
hours before bed. Black out shades in room and eye shades. White noise
machine next to bed. One hour before bed, I took 1mg of Melatonin. If
that didn't work, I bumped it up '1mg' to max of 3mg. If that didn't
work, I switched to Valerian herb capsule. If that didn't work, then I
did both. During daytime .... I would take a Stress Formula like Gaia
Stress Response .. and drink calming teas all day, like chamomile.
Finally, I would put several drops of Lavender Essential Oils on each
side of my pillow (does wonders for sleep).
(5) Then, I cleaned up my diet. Out with all the stimulants: caffeine,
soda pop, sugar, corporate food, fast food, alcohol, cigarettes,
candy, bakery goods, refined carbs, bad fats and oils, etc. In with
close to the earth, low-processed foods (organic and plant-based, if
possible). Drank lots of filtered, clean water and calming teas. Took
a green powder supplement like spirulina and chlorella each day and a
quality multi-vitamin (no garbage).
(6) Next, I instituted an exercise program. I used walking. Built up
to 3 hours each day (10+ miles). However, you don't have to go that
far. Just get moving. Helps with everything: weight, mood, sleep,
digestion, toxin elimination, metabolism, etc.
(7) Then, you need to quit focusing internally and switch to external
healthy focus, so start a hobby or two. I chose photography, but it
could be anything you enjoy. Preferably anything that gets you away
from social media.
(8) I chose no prescription drugs. None of them were healing or
helpful for me. You can use valerian as a calmative during the daytime
(and there are other herbs and supplements that work the same way as
prescription drugs. Just find something that takes the edge off for
you.)
(9) Get spiritual. Read the Bible everyday. Jesus had plenty to say
about anxiety. Give your 'worries' to Him and you'll soon find
miraculous healing.
(10) Change your negative thinking (you'll learn about this in CBT
books). Anxious people think in 'Good / Bad' and 'White / Black'
extremes about all issues. Healthy thoughts consider all the
variations of gray in the middle between the extremes. Not EVERYTHING
is a catastrophe or WILL BE a catastrophe.
(11) Recognize that anxiety will not harm you like you think it will.
It's a paper tiger that incites FEAR in you, so it can feed and grow.
Once you defuse it .... your on your way to healing.
(12) It won't fade overnight ... but if you chip away at it from
various angles laid out in this post, soon you will be in control and
it will recede. Soon ... anxiety will become just a bad memory you've
left behind.
It's easy to do. Just get started. Once you face it down ... that's
when you gain control of your anxiety. It knows you're the Boss and
its days are numbered. Good Luck!
Oh my goodness thank you for that. I am concentrating on most of the things that you have mentioned and I am having CBT. I am busy with hobbies all day and I love being outdoors with nature, The one thing that I do not do is read the bible. This is something that I could change .
Finding Jesus and bringing him into your life can give you life changing experiences, and help. Prayer is a very powerful thing. Try it and see for yourself. Wishing you well.
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