AF kicks off at at night

[Reena09]

Hi all, I’m on 50 mg flec am and 100 mg flec in the evening and take 2.5 mg bisoprolol am as well. I’m still getting breakouts of AF at night and the EP doesn’t want to increase my dosage of flec anymore as I am of a small build and he thinks not a good idea. My serum magnesium level is 0.88 and the EP nor my GP think it’s a good idea taking Mg supplements as too much Mg can apparently also cause harm. Has anyone been through this as I would really like to get rid of the flipping in and out. All advice appreciated. Thanks Reena

[Thomps95]

Eat small evening meals and nothing after about 7:30 or 8 pm. Evening AF is sometimes related to digestion

[Madscientist16]

If your episodes occur at night, you may want to be checked for sleep apnea. There is a link between those with AF and sleep disorders.

[secondtry]

As mentioned already sleep apnea can be a contributory factor to AF starting; I have mild SA and have for 4 months been testing taping my mouth closed at night as that per James Nestor's new book 'Breath' is supposed to help this issue, I certainly feel better in the morning. Also, try not going to bed dead tired, I wind down slowly in the evening with 45 mins Mindfulness, prayer and Yoga before bed and no thrillers on TV! Despite my suggestion to have more Flec in the evening, my cardiologist said an uneven dose does not help the heart settle. Re you Mg test my Naturopath says for MG levels you need the 'Red cell' test not the 'Serum' one and he also advised I take more to reach the top of the normal range and at the same time getting CoQ10 levels up to the top as well. Hope something there helps.

[Reena09 in reply to secondtry]

Thanks. Do you also dip into AF at night? What dose of flec and bisoprolol are you on? I presume the GP cannot carry out the red cell test? What form of magnesium do you take? Sorry for all the questions!

[secondtry in reply to Reena09]

No worries.

A: No AF now but used to get it evenings & night

A: Just 200mgs Flec (Unusual no BB/CB I know but I have lowish HR & BP)

A: Nutri Megamag Muscleze & Ancient Minerals Mg oil spray-on

[Reena09 in reply to secondtry]

Thank you! Why did you go for application rather than supplements?

[secondtry in reply to Reena09]

Tummy not too keen on too much Mg, felt sore may be just me.

[Reena09 in reply to secondtry]

Do you apply this in the morning or evening?

[secondtry in reply to Reena09]

Morning as evening seemed to cause interrupted sleep.

[Reena09 in reply to secondtry]

Did you see a consultant for the SA? Given covid, nothing is that straightforward but presume it would be an ENT?

[secondtry in reply to Reena09]

Not really a consultant, an NHS sleep study specialist

[Reena09 in reply to secondtry]

Did you have the test done at home or in hospital?

[secondtry in reply to Reena09]

home

[Reena09 in reply to secondtry]

Also, did you purchase the myotape on the buteykoclinic website?

[secondtry in reply to Reena09]

myotape.com

[Reena09 in reply to secondtry]

Is this what you bought?

[secondtry in reply to Reena09]

yes

[Reena09 in reply to secondtry]

Sorry second try - are the myotapes and large tapes one of the same?

[secondtry in reply to Reena09]

I bought a box of the myotapes and cut each one up into approx 8 bits half the size of a postage stamp (therefore v economical), that's all you need in the middle of the mouth.

[CDreamer]

Hi Rena - it’s quite common and about 70% of my AF used to start at night. I had SA - sleep apnea and was treated with CPAP and the it pretty much stopped the nocturnal AF. I would also recommend the James Nesbitt breathing book and the exercises and the tape of Patrick McKeown. buteykoclinic.com/team_memb... Plenty of videos on YouTube.

As others mentioned eating small meals at least 3 hours prior to bedtime help. Sometimes changing sleeping positions help.

All the above are related to vagal AF that is AF which is triggered by the vagus nerve. Some people find exercise triggers AF whilst others - rest. Research and look at ways you can improve vagal tone - humming or chanting, singing, meditation, taking daily cold showers etc.

My AF was triggered at night because I was a mouth breather, I snored from childhood, my O2 sats would drop which would trigger AF. My O2 sats still drop at night, often to mid 80’s, but now only momentarily.

There is so much you can do to help yourself that Doctors do not tell you about and you have to go and actively push research for yourself, suggest to your doctor and in sometimes push your GP to refer you. It was only when someone on this forum asked if I had been tested for SA that I went to my GP and after a short questionnaire screening test, she referred my to my local hospital for testing and I came back - Moderate SA.

Lifestyle Medicine = wellbeing = good restorative sleep, exercise, managing stress & excellent nutrition which includes controlling weight gain which unfortunately drugs will make much harder to do.

Best wishes

[Reena09 in reply to CDreamer]

Thank you. Did you also an ENT for the SA? I need to get onto this ASAP

[Reena09 in reply to CDreamer]

Did you also use any strips to keep your mouth close?

[CDreamer in reply to Reena09]

I use mouth strips to keep mouth closed, as mentioned in my post. By ENT - if you mean an ear, nose, throat specialist, no. I was treated by a physiologist/psychologist and pulmonologist.

[Reena09 in reply to CDreamer]

What mouth strips do you use?

[Singwell]

Lots of great advice here. I'd add to the mix having an awareness of acid reflux. Acid reflux can be troublesome at night and cause you to wake up momentarily a bit like SA and also cause coughing, choking and inflammation, which I've found triggers AF. Eating early and light will help this but if you think you have it, look into dietary changes.

[Buffafly]

Check how you sleep - some people find lying on the left side a nono, in any case make sure your heart is not under pressure as much as possible. You need to listen to your body and try different positions to see where your heart feels calmest 💜

[Moenvk in reply to Buffafly]

Yes! I had to switch from sleeping on my left to sleeping on my right side. This change alone helped me tremendously.

[MalJam]

Try no artificial sweeteners or MSG. Works for me. I had afib while sleeping about twice monthly. Gone!!

[Buffafly in reply to MalJam]

Some preservatives are bad too.

[Contra21]

How do you know its af or in it

[Reena09 in reply to Contra21]

It’s clear from the readings on my Apple Watch.

[Contra21 in reply to Reena09]

How do i know if i have it? What should 1 look out 4

[CmsUK]

Hi Reena,

I had an ablation and roughly a month afterwards I started experiencing bigeminy rhythms at night, I’d dread lying down as I knew they would start. My consultant said I could increase the dose of Flecainide and bisoprolol, he told me my max/safe dose of each. (300mg Flec, 10mg Biso) and reduce it up/down to what I can work with.

With this in mind, I started at half the max dose of each and within 24 hours the rhythm went back to normal. Touch wood, that was in December 2019 and I’m now one 50mg Flec and a tiny 1.25 biso..

Hope this info helps as everyone is different

Kind regards

Craig