Switching beta blockers

[Peony4575]

Having changed from Bisoprolol to Atenolol 11 days ago. It keeps heart rate low but is it possible to still suffer symptoms from the withdrawal of the Bisoprolol ? Or is anything am feeling attributable to new drug ? Has anyone any experience of doing this ? Had problems trying to withdraw from Bisoprolol . In fact with Bisoprolol altogether

[Sfhmgusa]

Hi I think that it is very possible to have long "Echos" of Bisoprolol after stopping. I had quite a rotten three weeks after moving from it and I think others it takes longer. For me it was breathlessness and mild panic attacks, but I understand the symptoms can vary a lot

Keep the faith It does go away , and I am sure your new medicine will work without glitches

S

[Peony4575 in reply to Sfhmgusa]

Thank you for that . Your answer is a real help

[TillysMumat33]

I have also just gone off the Bisoprolol to an other.

I felt awful going of it, palpitation, chest pain and tiredness.

Pharmacist said takes a bit over 2 days to leave your system.

The new tablet the first night made me very unwell. Day 3 now and improving,

Off Bisoprolol for 4 days before l started the new tablet.

I would think maybe the new drug.

All the best.

[Auriculaire]

It could be that you just do not do well on beta blockers of any sort. I changed from Bisoprolol to Nebivolol. I was on a very low dose of Bisoproplol and take a slightly higher dose of Nebivolol. I do feel better on the Nebivolol but not miles better. Probably because of the very low dosage there is not much difference. I think after the change it took about 3 weeks to notice the difference. What sort of symptoms are you experiencing?

[Peony4575 in reply to Auriculaire]

8 weeks ago I was dog walking and gardening everyday . Now am exhausted and breathless if I do anything . The Bisoprolol caused terrible anxiety . The atenolol hasn’t so far . I get these episodes where I get shaky and feel absolutely dreadful . After two failed attempts to get off I hope I succeed this time . If I were rich enough I d sign myself into a private hospital for the duration !

[TillysMumat33 in reply to Auriculaire]

I was changed to Nebivolol , 5 mg.

After 3 days on 1/2 tablet took a full one last night. The first night l took it l threw it up

All seems ok now.

I feel not quite so exhausted on this tablet and my appetite is getting better.

On the Bisoprolol felt very weak.

I am on a couple more tabs.

Attacand and a cholesterol one.

I have what feels like a continual cold and stuffy nose, so cardiologist is trying to sort.

Hope you start feeling better .

[Peony4575 in reply to TillysMumat33]

Many thanks for kind reply . Am now withdrawing from the atenolol under cardios instructions but like you felt awful on the Bisoprolol . Weakness seems to be a feature for me on beta blockers but biso definitely was worse as was exhaustion. The worst thing was the terrible anxiety when trying to withdraw which isn’t happening so far on the atenolol which is very good news for me and those around me ! Not a biso fan . You take care and I hope they get your problems sorted out x

[TillysMumat33 in reply to Peony4575]

It really is hard to get these tablets right.

They seem pretty heavy duty...although l guess they are doing a big job.

All the best.

[Peony4575]

You are exactly right . I do not do well on beta blockers . I woke last night at 139am and have not been back to sleep. It blocks melatonin production apparently . Feel generally unwell. Weak achy legs . Gut symptoms . Get burning sensation especially in legs at night .Just dropped quarter tablet ahead of seeing cardio tomorrow got to get off these tablets

[Auriculaire in reply to Peony4575]

You must not try to do it too quickly. Why were you changed to Atenolol and not Nebivolol?

[Peony4575 in reply to Auriculaire]

No idea . Am new to all this. Is Nebivolol lipophilic ? The idea was to go into something hydrophilic so it didn’t cause anxiety etc

[Auriculaire in reply to Peony4575]

I don't know. I don't think most people get anxiety as a side effect of beta blockers. They have been prescribed for anxiety. One of my friends took them as a PIP for anxiety. I have found that reducing the dose makes me feel a bit jittery. I have not really had much anxiety since supplementing with magnesium. When I was started on Bisoprolol at 5mg I became very depressed because I felt like a zombie- no energy , no motivation , wanting to sleep all the time, body felt heavy to drag around . It was unbearable and I told the doc I'd rather be dead than live like that .

[Peony4575 in reply to Auriculaire]

Exactly how I feel . And not good for your long term health being unable to exert at all. Even though I was only on the biso a short time I noticed I was having some black thoughts . Biso and atenolol are cardio specific so don’t block the physical effects of anxiety such as jelly legs etc though they would keep the HR down .Shorter acting ones especially propranolol givenfor anxiety more often because they act more body wide. Atenolol not causing anxiety biso I was up the wall especially withdrawing . Am now supplementing with magnesium

[Auriculaire in reply to Peony4575]

Nebivolol is more cardiospecific than Bisoproplol. It is more suitable for people with asthma. I have also read that it provokes nitric oxide production which is good for artery health. I take 100mg magnesium taurate three times a day so as to have a steady level. I cannot exert much at the moment as I have very bad arthritis in both hips. I have a date to get the right one replaced mid December but the left has deteriorated very quickly recently and hurts just as much. But the cartilage degeneration is I suspect a result of Fluoroquinolone toxicity as I have it in my ribs as well.

[Peony4575 in reply to Auriculaire]

Partner had a hip replacement last year and that went very well he recovered amazingly quickly and was on his feet in no time. Out of hospital very quickly and although I was thinking how the hell are we going to do that , when we got home I wouldnt worry if he had the other one done. Easier to recover from than knees apparently . Made such a difference being out of pain. Really recommend hydrotherapy if you can get it . Paid privately for about 10 sessions and well worth it . Good luck with that

[Auriculaire in reply to Peony4575]

Thank you. That is reassuring. The only thing I am worried about is that the pain in the other one will interfere with the walking you are meant to do in the recovery. The surgeon thinks it likely the left one will have to be done later as the cartilage is degenerating there ( no cartilage at all in the right one) but says I will have to wait a year. Do let us know how you get on with the cardiologist.

[Peony4575 in reply to Auriculaire]

Will do. Probably part of the problem with the second hip is your gait will have totally altered to accommodate the first hip . Back and second hip suffer as a result . This is where the hydrotherapy comes in. The physio doing exercises as you are buoyed up by the water corrects your gait. My partner doesn’t limp then with the proper pain management you may get on better than you anticipate

[Auriculaire in reply to Peony4575]

My gait certainly has changed. I can only shuffle around now! And I think the surgeon said one leg was longer than the other. Pain management is a nightmare. Because I am so sensitive to drugs I get bad side effects from the only thing that works well -Paracetamol with opium powder. I have never been able to take Ibuprofen and it is contraindicated for floxies and fibbers anyway. The opium works well but upsets my digestion making me bloated and giving me reflux and abdominal discomfort. I only take them if I have to go out or if we go on short trips on the bike but when I stop the pain seems even worse and I feel down. Paracetamol alone just does not work that well.

[Peony4575 in reply to Auriculaire]

Psracetemol won’t touch the sides. What about codeine . I am super sensitive so I sympathise . Partner has one leg shorter than the other slightly I think most people do and surgery they do their best with that

[Auriculaire in reply to Peony4575]

Codeine has the same side effect profile as opium . All opiates are fairly similar. The pain has really got a lot worse in the last couple of days as the long hot dry spell we were having has ended. I had forgotten how much worse it was when it is damp.

[Peony4575 in reply to Auriculaire]

So he’s told me to start reducing the atenolol by quarter of a tablet . Leave it two weeks then email him and let him know how I am getting on and will decide if am ready for another drop . Fingers crossed

[Auriculaire in reply to Peony4575]

That sounds sensible . You can see how you feel. I know you desperately want to get off them but slow and steady is better than a roller coaster ride of reducing too quick then having to go back up because the body is protesting about being exposed to adrenaline again. How mucb and what sort of magnesium are you taking?

[Peony4575 in reply to Auriculaire]

At the moment only 100mg magnesium citrate in the morning . Agree. Am desperate to avoid the withdrawals and reinstatement’s I have already gone through and being left to make it up as I go along . It will be very helpful to check in with him every fortnight

[Auriculaire in reply to Peony4575]

That is a very small dose. I take 100mg magnesium taurate 3 times a day with meals. I used to get anxiety attacks from time to time ( even before taking a beta blocker) but since I have been taking the 300mg spread out in 3 doses I don't get them any more. Try taking another mid afternoon and see if it helps. Nuts are a good source of magnesium too. At the moment I am probably getting loads as our rocket crop is growing like crazy now the hot weather is finished and we are eating rocket salad most days!

[Peony4575 in reply to Auriculaire]

I will increase it to two and see how I go. Anything that helps with anxiety is a plus . It says don’t eat potassium rich foods with beta blockers which I don’t understand . I have grown a bumper crop of kale which I have been eating most days as it’s lovely and I thought good for you . Tomatoes were also listed. My tomato crop has just finished but I do eat a fair few tomatoes fresh and in sauces etc . Am still eating some

[Auriculaire in reply to Peony4575]

I hope you are not eating the kale raw in smoothies! All the brassica family are goitrogenic. Thorough cooking mitigates this. Anxiety can be one of the symptoms of poor thyroid function

[Peony4575 in reply to Auriculaire]

Thanks for that tip. I don’t do smoothies . Fry it with a little bacon or poach quickly like spinach . My thyroid was checked recently and ok apparently

[Auriculaire in reply to Peony4575]

Did you ask for the numbers? Doctors will tell you your thyroid is ok if your TSH is within the "normal" range. What most of them have no clue about is that a TSH of 1 and a TSH of 5 ( both can be within normal ranges depending on how high the lab's top end goes) can lead to very different states of health. A TSH right at the top of the normal range is often a sign of the thyroid going down the pan. I was told in 1993 that my thyroid results were normal. 7 years later by chance my hypothyroidism was diagnosed as my TSH had risen well out of the normal range and this showed up among a battery of blood tests done in outpatients. I asked my GP to see the 1993 results and found that in fact my TSH was slightly over the top of the normal range but my Free T4 was below range. This should have been a red flag to my GP to test further but it was ignored and I had 7 years of hypo symtoms buggering up my health including putting on over a stone in weight -despite eating less and taking lots of exercise. Hypothyroidism diagnosis and treatment in the UK is a joke as many on the thyroid forums will confirm.

[Peony4575 in reply to Auriculaire]

I agree. Hypothyroidism helped kill my mother as her arteries became clogged. The hypo resulted from them treating her for hyper and getting it wrong .

My thyroid was tested in a&e when I was admitted with first AF so hopefully they were used to their internal numbers . Thank you for tip !

[Auriculaire in reply to Peony4575]

Probably to make sure you wew not hyper as afib can result from that. Especially as your mother had hyper.

[Outtheresinger]

I had terrible problems with Bisoprolol it made me hear voices telling me to hurt myself. I knew the voices weren’t real but it was still very upsetting. My cardio checked and Bisoprolol can cross the blood brain barrier so can give one psychiatric symptoms. I swapped to Atenolol and have had no problems since.

[Peony4575 in reply to Outtheresinger]

Poor you that’s a horrible experience. It caused me to have terrible anxiety and dark thoughts . Agree re blood brain barrier won’t be taking anything else that does that. Agree atenolol a better experience . You take care

[Peony4575]

Thanks for that . Currently the plan is that I won’t be taking anything if I can get off this. If that doesn’t work out then will need an alternative so thanks for suggestion

[Auriculaire]

Constipation is a side effect of opiates. As I have had some of my colon removed for diverticulitis I have what is known as an"accelerated transit" ie I go to the loo a lot! So it does not affect me so badly. But it does make me feel bloated and kills my appetite. Which is a bummer as I need to take it if we go out to eat in order to tolerate the journey to the restaurant and sitting in a chair foe a couple of hours.