Alcohol after Cardioversion

[Ivan_the_Terrible]

Some of you asked me to update you after my cardioversion. I stayed in NSR for five days until I drank half a bottle of wine at a belated birthday celebration. Before some of you with sharp pens tell me I was stupid I can since being diagnosed with AFib I have cut my drinking to moderate, averaging no more than one drink per day, often none, occasionally more. I had no idea that it was advisable to cut it further after cardioversion. Had I known I would have avoided alcohol altogether for as long as I remained in NSR.

I did ask the nurse prior to cardioversion if there was anything activity I should avoid afterwards to maintain NSR as long as possible. She said 'no'. There was a report from the American College of Cardiology entitled 'Alcohol Abstinence Reduces Burden, Recurrence rates in Moderate Drinkers with AFib' dated March 2019. Surely enough time has passed for it to become standard for every patient receiving a cardioversion under the NHS to be given clear verbal if not written warning that virtually any alcohol may reduce the length of time they remain in NSR. It's not sufficient to rely on them picking up leaflets in waiting rooms, watching videos, assuming these contain the relevant warning, or posting on this site

Thanks in advance to anyone responding. There no longer seems to be a private message facility on this site and I don't want to fill the page with one word messages of thanks.

[7164]

Ivan

You are only human. We all make mistakes.

I would advise you to stop the alcohol completely. I did two years ago and I do miss it but!!an evening in A@E is worse.

My Af did continue after the dropping alcohol though. Had an ablation 6 weeks ago and feel rubbish 😊

[Ivan_the_Terrible in reply to 7164]

7164, I have persistent rather than paroxysmal AFib. I couldn't see a reason to give it up completely whilst in AFib but can when I'm in NSR.

[jeanjeannie50]

Unfortunately the sulphite, a preservative in wine, can send us into AF. It would have been best to stay off all alcohol, but I can't talk. I went to a National Trust volunteer garden party the day after a cardioversion (have had lots). One of the gardeners said who wants a walk around the garden and off I went, walked up a steep hill and went straight back into AF (so that's another thing not to do). I can understand how disappointing it must have been for you.

We could do with a list of do's and don'ts on here.

Are you aware that it's best not to eat any foods containing artificial additives? Artificial sweeteners were a sure trigger for me.

Jean

[7164 in reply to jeanjeannie50]

I used to love wine😐

Avoid it !!!

[Ivan_the_Terrible in reply to jeanjeannie50]

The nurse said I could do any amount of strenuous activity, she may have said wait a day or two. Now the medical profession won't say anything is good for you if it's not proven by clinical trials, but will they refrain from warning you that certain things may be bad for you, if that's not proven by clinical trials? However in this case the effect of even moderate drinking is proven by clinical trial so why isn't everyone being told? A cardioversion costs £4000 privately in the UK so surely the NHS is wasting money by not warning patients. Anyway I have put in a Freedom of Information request to the NHS asking them whether there are protocols for warning patients in the light of this research.

[Ecki in reply to Ivan_the_Terrible]

My cardioversion last September cost £2000.........

[jeanjeannie50 in reply to Ivan_the_Terrible]

When I had my last cardioversion which was last October. I asked my AF nurse what I should not do and she said, nothing too strenuous for a week or so. This was the first time I can recall being told that and this was probably my tenth cardioversion. I agree with you, there should be some hard and fast rules to follow and they should be written down and handed out to patients.

When you think about it, if our hearts have been beating in AF for a while the muscles will have gained strength in that incorrect mode. After a cardioversion we need to allow the muscles to grow strong beating correctly.

Overeating is and always has been a trigger for my AF, especially if I have lunch out and then attempt to walk anywhere.

Wishing you well.

Jean

[Hidden]

Ivan, try looking on the bright side. The fact that the cardioversion worked means that you are more likely to respond well to having an ablation if that’s the route you decide to pursue 👍

[Ivan_the_Terrible in reply to Hidden]

Is four days long enough? I'm not really depressed about it, I just think the lack of a warning is extraordinarily remiss. What's the point of the NHS doing cardioversion unless they take steps to ensure that their ensure as long as possible? It doesn't seem like joined-up thinking.

[Hidden]

I’m not medically trained and it depends on what your EP thinks but as I understand it, the fact that it has worked is sufficient to consider an ablation. However, other things may be tried first such as a second attempt or trying Flecainide as a Pill in the Pocket then as a daily maintenance dose.

As far as criticising the NHS for not making you aware of something you have said you already knew sounds a bit harsh to me. We all do daft things we regret but I’ll leave it to you to decide a who is responsible. I doubt many here would say it was the NHS but I have no intention of engaging into a discussion about it..............

[Ivan_the_Terrible in reply to Hidden]

I won't go into the fairness or otherwise of my particular case, you can reread my original post if you wish, but the hospital did not know what I did or didn't know. Surely in the light of the research to which I refer the NHS should have a protocol in place to ensure that every patient receiving cardioversion is made aware of the risks of even moderate alcohol consumption after cardioversion. It's not just about my case but every case. As for me if they had told me that even moderate drinking might cause a relapse I'd have given it a miss.

[Sfhmgusa]

Hi there I may be a maverick but I think zero alcohol for me would also be a major quality of life loss.

So after a recent ablation (14 bays ago) I have already had 1 or two glasses of wine when the meal/ occasion demands it with no problems so far

I asked specifically if I need to be tee total before and after my ablation and was told no but to never drink to excess and be sensible .

I also asked about caffein having been decaf only for many months. Got similar advice And so now have 1 or two “ leaded” rather than unleaded coffees most days.

The triggers that I am very wary of are not alcohol and cofffee (which rarely triggered me PRE ablation) but a full/over eaten stomach especially red meat or pasta these were almost certain to trigger me so I am much.. much more careful about over eating.

Good news is the reduced booze and smaller meals mean I am now 28 lbs lighter than 9 months ago , a bmi of 24 which I am sure helps

Not sure this is advice maybe far from it but it is what I am doing now. So wanted to share

[Ivan_the_Terrible in reply to Sfhmgusa]

Thank you for your supportive post.

[Jmc43 in reply to Ivan_the_Terrible]

Because I think one of the values of this board is the diversity of experience that one can read about, I wanted to add my experience in. While there are many that have concluded alcohol was/is a trigger, my own experience is very much like Sfhmgusa’s description. I have paroxysmal Afib, have had 5 episodes in 2 1/2 years with no apparent trigger. One even happened while I was playing golf — studied the research but can find no link between golf and Afib 😎. Anyway, I have between 1 and 2 glasses of wine with dinner most days. That hasn’t been a problem so far. The nearest I can come for a trigger for me is dehydration, so I pay attention to how much water I drink. I had an ablation 10 days ago, feel fine, have had no problems. Had a glass of wine a couple of nights ago with dinner, and it was fine. While there are various clinical studies, they also don’t account for individual variation. By the way, I did see a study recently which said 1-3 cups of coffee a day improved Afib symptoms. Hmmmm....

Hope you are doing well!

[Singwell]

Ivan I totally get your point! Medics are so gung ho about what you can and cannot do post treatment and post diagnosis - oh just get on with daily life I was told. Well, it's not quite like that! My brother is in permanent AF and he drinks. In fact he has an alcohol problem sadly but he's still with us after 7 years though we've helped him.cut down. Maybe the amount that day tipped the balance, maybe it was a combination of things? Could you be kick started back into NSR again with a PIP? You don't say if you're stuck in AF again now. Short answer to your question YES aftercare for AF is appalling - it's an unsupported condition. That's why I'm on this forum. Good luck!

[angel343]

Ivan-the-Terrible, hi ivan i can completely understand where your coming from, your not knocking the nhs your just stating that if we were given more information we would make different choices, ive always been told one or two glasses of red wine is good for you because of the flavanols in it , but there again im confused.com as to lots of contradictions i hear, i am trying to help ease my symptoms with slight excercise watching what i eat etc. But i think life has been very hard and worrying for us all at this time especially when your going through health issues. So take care you have now found out that drinking can make your condition worse so things might improve for you hopefully. We all need to just be less hard on ourselves we are all learning each day the things which can have a negative effect on us. We have each other for a support system, sometimes we just need to share our experiences thats how we all learn. Take care hope you make a full recovery and start feeling lots better.

[Ivan_the_Terrible in reply to angel343]

Well I am to some extent having a go at the NHS. The clinical care was excellent, the aftercare non-existent which is a total waste of resources. I had the cardioversion in a private hospital which had been taken over by the NHS at the start of the pandemic, I was told it had been empty for months. It was about 20% occupied when I was there.

[dmac4646]

Short answer is they should tell you what to avoid and booze is a no brainer. Hospitals are not good at this. I was admitted to hospital with bad bout of AF - told them I had chest infection - totally ignored - rushed to ICU - still in SF after 3 days cardioverted - discharged back in AF within hours - insisted on a chest xray - diagnosis chest infection - antibiotics give then out of AF next morning - discharged with no issues - Hospitals often treat whats in front them with little thought of what lies behind an issue. My learning from that with AF - avoid hospitals like the plague if at all possible.

[Buffafly in reply to dmac4646]

I always go into AF when I have an infection or a virus. However, on a couple of occasions I have been told in A&E that my blood results show raised infection markers but no effort is made to find the source of the infection!

[Jeans1234]

Very useful info