I was mulling over this question myself earlier after yet another sleepless night with my heart.
Wasn't full af but had lots of irritating ectopics taking my breath away and jarring me awake.
I saw a chiropractor a few years ago. They weren't able to help with my problems I was having with my head but they'd already said that was unlikely.
However with a lot of their work around the spine, it started me thinking about the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems and the connection between that and AF.
I am going to ask the new chirp I'm seeing in about 9 days whether she thinks it could help, as a lot of my ectopics and heart palps come vagally and from posture. I'm almost certain of it. I lean forward a lot and my heart immediately kicks off.
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So are you refering to chiropractic treatment itself, or in relation to atrial fib?
I know a heck of a lot of people receive invaluable help, that no amount of physiotherapy or treatment can help with. In sports-people, normal people, old people. It's invaluable. Whether the general medical world looks down on it or not.
Presumably though, a lot of treatments - alternative or otherwise - could be pointless ways to cause a stroke in somebody who suffers from afib.
Having said that, I've also come across a lot of testimonials from people who claim that having chiropractic treatment immeasurably helped their afib or symptoms of. I speak as somebody who had an ablation by one of the top cardiologists in the UK and 3 years later, the ectopics/heart activity I'm experiencing is worse than anything I went through in between bouts of afib. So I guess I'm willing to try anything to calm my heart down.
Exactly I am thinking the same and going to see some good one on friday ! all my ectopics coming in posture or when I move my chest other way I will not have them ... also I went for massage for deep tisue .. and they gone for two months ... after massage ... then I wrongly moved my back again and here we are again almost 14 days again ... but maximum up to 8 of them per day just ... I can make them feel if I do posture which making them ...I am 1000% sure is from back ...
Snap i get exactly the same thing, i lean forward and sit back in my chair i get these awful sensations skipped beats they are horrible, so did deep tissue work for you? i'm willing to try anything
yes for my massage always help and they gone for month ... and then coming back ... after some ... don’t know why .. but that’s why I am thinking is nothing serious with my heart because if this vanished ?! and then coming back ... I got still clicking in my chest going to fix my back on friday .. and also waiting for blood test and ECG results but I think nothing gonna changed there I got them done before Christmas ... all this started after christmas ..
Thank you for replying, I've had these since my first AFIB attack back in Dec 2018, and since I've been on beta blockers my posture/vagel just keeps on getting off this very scary and horrible feeling that last's only for a second i hate them, i just can't get to the bottom of it, completely changed my diet don't drink or smoke lost nearly 9 stone just can't get my head round them, i will 100% try the Chiropractor
Yes they saw AFIB on the ECG Prescribe me Bisaprol 3.75mg which i hated, eventually switched to metraprole 6 months later, and had an ablation 9 months ago, so still get these ectopics which still bother me, sorry what is a patology?
maybe I wrote wrong I meant any results if they came up ... I had ECG I think october -november I got very big flue and then they did also blood test . I been emergency and they did ECG because my heart was racing to fast but they said all good ... today they did other .. ECG but I have to wait probably few days for results ... but I hope half of year not gonna change that much
Well let us know how that goes too. I've never had a deep tissue massage before. Might have to look into that as well.
But like you, I'm positive that most of my afib issues come from posture/spinal issues, which must be affecting sympathetic/parasympathetic nervous system.
Please do update us all as that could be a real positive. I went to a chiropractic for the first time just before lockdown for a back issue and was very worried as she did acupuncture as part of the treatment and I was really concerned in case it kicked off my AF, I was so impressed at how much it all helped and how I felt far more relaxed than normal after the first couple of treatments especially as I know stress brings on my eptopics and AF. Good luck. Max
Even a short-term improvement would help right now. It would prove to me that my main heart issue comes from vagus/sympathetic nervous system, which I'm convinced it does.
As someone who also gets ectopic beats when lying in certain positions, leaning forward, after a heavy meal and stomach feels bloated could I suggest that maybe everyone has these (we can’t all be physically misaligned) but we’re just so attuned to out bodily sensations - hyper vigilant that we feel every single missed beat? I’m sure we’ve all been told by our cardiologists that everyone has them? I know this doesn’t help our anxiety about them but just suggesting that although the chiropractor will no doubt help posture etc it may not eliminate our horrible ectopic beats?
I agree with the hypersensitivity comments. I have ectopics post ablation and I ignore them. I have decided they are harmless, my EP was aware I got them, so I just try to ignore them
I get long runs sometimes which do take my attention, and then i start to dwell on them again, but at least 80% of the time they dont bother me. I also suspect I had the ectopics before but never noticed as I wasnt hypersensitive.
I am however interested in the chiropractor approach as I do keep getting neck issues. Having said that i cant link this to my ectopics, or at least not neck pain wise as I have neck pain when i don't have ectopics.
Yeah, I know what you mean, and I am much more sensitive to it now but I can feel the 'dip' in my chest even when I'm not expecting them. Like earlier, sat on the bus and my chest suddenly felt like it was 'empty', is the only way I can describe it. Then it felt almost as if somebody kicked me in the chest.
That's how my ectopics go these days. They used to be minor and easy enough to pass off as not important but these days they're far too intrusive to pass off as merely me being more aware of them. I have a lot of health issues besides this, so trying to take the edge off any way I can.
The point I was making re the chiropractor, is that a lot of the important nerves run down our spines from the back of the neck. Any postural issues could compact a nerve or cause some sort of temporary block or damage. I mean, I know for a fact that the vagus plays a huge role in my af/ectopics. As does my IBS.
Living near Exeter and as someone who sees a Chiropractor regularly I am well aware of the work of the very high profile and controversial Prof Ernst and was amazed that he was Professor of ‘Alternative’ Medicine for so long as he was never a supporter of complimentary treatments. His critic of Chiropractice is damming and in places, inaccurate - not that I would know but my Chiro does and has had extended arguments with the Prof after critic of his paper and the inaccuracies therein. He is just about the most controversial character and hardly surprising he had to take ‘early retirement’ from Exeter University because of the extreme views he evoked.
I don’t think I have ever had my neck twisted ??? Most chiropractors these days tend to use Activators and certainly do with me because of my neurological condition.
My experience with Chiropractice was that they were able to both stop and inadvertently start my AF with activation of vertebrae through which part of the vagal nerve passed, but were also able to bring back my BP which had just caused me to faint and he was the first person to diagnose my Myasthenia whereas I received no help, nor even a consultation for over 5 months from NHS - resorting in the end to pay privately to see a neurologist who confirmed the diagnosis on clinical exam.
Chiropractice on it’s own however was a temporary reprieve and had no long term affect on the progression of AF.
It was great for my spine which had just about seized up and I could barely move my neck after a bad car crash which left me with whiplash. My then orthopaedic consultant told me I would need to wear a neck brace by the time I was 60 as I would have so much arthritis in my neck I wouldn’t be able to move. I wasn’t going to accept that which is when I turned to Chiropractice & though it helped saved me from a lifetime of crippling pain and immobilisation. It is certainly not a cure all and I also had to work very hard with private rehab to regain movement.
The medical profession are often unable to offer any treatment to help - and maybe therein lies the problem. Instead of trying to discredit professionals who can and do help millions, they could learn from each other and improve our outcomes.
Whilst Chiropractice can help with many spinal/nerve issues, IMHO it must go hand in hand with - and this is most important - improving and maintaining core strength and correcting posture and exercise and all the Chiropractors I have worked with advocate this approach.
Quote from one of the studies on the list from the link you kindly provided. (I haven’t read all of them in detail) but this supports the studies my Chiro has shown me when I raised the Stroke issue with him, prior to starting treatment with him as I had read some Prof Ernst’s work and knew from my own trainings, it contained inaccuracies.
Conclusions
We found no excess risk of carotid artery stroke after chiropractic care. Associations between chiropractic and PCP visits and stroke were similar and likely due to patients with early dissection-related symptoms seeking care prior to developing their strokes.
Risk of Carotid Stroke after Chiropractic Care: A Population-Based Case-Crossover Study
So he was a homeopath but didn't have a lot of positive things to say about alternative medicine? That's not all that surprising, sadly.
Agree with you though, I've experienced the benefits - and seen it in many others - of chiropractic treatment. It has risks, of course it does, it can be a very aggressive (physically) treatment but it also works well, when it's done right.
He trained as a Homeopath & suddenly found that something didn’t sit right with him so became an academic ‘debunking’ all ‘alternative’ treatments. Most people called them Complimentary Therapies. He came into the papers when he called out Prince Charles’s support of homeopathy which made big headlines at the time a quite a row.
Does changing your sleep position help or less pillows. I say this because of a hand injury I recently slept on my back with my had raised on a pillow on my chest and sleep well less interference from fast heart etc. A week ago I was think about this and since sleeping on my back 4 night ago I have had uninterrupted sleep. I appreciate the possible emotional effects that the night of my dreadful hand pain meant I was thinking about that and not my heart which could explain a restful night but it might be worth ago.
Funnily enough, it does sometimes. I have to prop myself up due to reflux, but I'm noticed many more ectopics when I do. There's a sweet spot that I can never quite hit though.
I may try sleeping in different position later though.
Don’t forget that the chiropractic movement arose in the USA alongside Christian .science and many quasi medical treatments (ref The Great Influenza by John M Barry), before the development of any true medical science and the founding of Johns Hopkins etc.
As a retired physio, I did use spinal manipulations on the thoracic and lumbar vertebrae. Manipulations are high velocity movements which cannot be stopped one started. I preferred mobilisations which are much gentler and can be stopped at any time. I never manipulated the cervical spine, since a mistake could lead to paralysis or stroke.
Yeah, I plan on seeing an Osteopath myself as soon as possible too. I'm sure they won't appreciate me mixing and matching, but I'm desperate for help for a number of reasons!
I will continue to use Chiropractice because it helps me stay mobile - I have no interest in defending the practice & not up for debate. I do believe in research however on any subject it’s not unusual to find one study which supports an action and as many more which don’t. I just didn’t respect Prof Ernst’s paper or the campaigns he led against Chiropractice.
I can assure you there was no placebo affect on how it stopped & triggered my AF - just my experience.
& what about nocebo affect? And how does that influence findings? Is that why drugs & ablation didn’t work for me? In fact made it worse? Talking to my Doctor friends there is much discussion about the problems of dealing with patient nocebo in practice today
We are still living in the dark ages regarding AF, for all of the advances of recent years.
Interesting thought. I know a little acupressure and use some pressure points. Few years ago on holiday my back was terrible and I had some Chinese massage with a holistic practitioner who was also a qualified doctor. Was quite effective, one tip he gave me to use was points That I now is a vagabond position, to massage, not one in the neck, my Consultant wasn’t keen for me to use that.
I prefer Osteopath myself and might broach this subject with my Practitioner.
I am a qualified Complementary Therapist of 22 years with Anat & Phys.
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I meant any results if they came up ... I had ECG I think october -november I got very big flue and then they did also blood test . I been emergency and they did ECG because my heart was racing to fast but they said all good ... today they did other .. ECG but I have to wait probably few days for results ... but I hope half of year not gonna change that much
Advice.2nd Af episode in week since ablation.
In AF again
Do I have ectopics or AF?
0ne year on from AF ablation.
