I have always thought we all have a similar problem happening within our bodies that is causing our afib problems. After 17 years of watching my afib come and go, and logging everything I eat, I am pretty sure our hearts are fine but we have a problem with a gland(s) or an organ(s). For example:
1). The Sympathetic Nerve INCREASES the heart rate.
2). The Vagus Nerve DECREASES the heart rate.
3). The Adrenal Gland INCREASES the heart rate (with adrenaline).
4). The Thyroid Gland both DECREASES and INCREASES the heart rate.
5). The Hypothalamus Gland produces hormones directing other glands to do stuff.
6). The Pancreas processes sugar, which cause other glands to do different things.
7). To further complicate the situation, when one gland stops working, sometimes another gland will try to pick up the slack.
Plus - there are lots more glands in the body - and don't forget the organs, which (some) also influence the heart rate.
Medications, chemicals, foods etc. can all cause our glands and organs to mis-fire. For me, sugar (and dehydration) are causing some gland(s) or organ(s) in my body to mis-fire, sending mixed signals to the heart - for example, telling the heart to beat fast and slow at the same time. This would explain why a healthy heart sometimes beats abnormally. It also explains why my heart afibs when I eat too much sugar, because the heart does NOT use sugar to contract (uses fatty acids) so obviously sugar/dehydration is causing something to misfire which in turn is directing the heart to afib. In our old age, I suspect a gland or organ is not working as it used to, causing afib or other heart palpitations. Unfortunately doctors and researchers don't know what it is (yet). In the meantime we will have to listen to our bodies VERY closely to see what is causing our problems and reduce or eliminate our afib by reducing what triggers it.
FYI - If you have a gland(s) that is not working correctly due to a nutritional deficiency, you can identify that with a Nutritional Response Tester and get it corrected, or partly corrected – which will greatly decrease your afib episodes and reduce the severity of afib episodes that do happen. I have done that myself and have been able to add years of living without medications, and a big improvement to the quality of life (for example can run up stairs with my mild afib and not have an oxygen problem – i.e. getting lightheaded and dizzy).
A Nutritional Response Tester is a trained individual that can identify an organ or gland in the body that needs certain nutrition, or that isn't working quite right. (Done without any invasive procedures). Once identified, they can supplement your diet or have you eat certain foods that will help that organ/gland. You will have to look it up on the internet to see if you have one in your neck of the woods.
Well sugarisit, that just sent me rushing for the gin bottle. Very interesting AND if I could get a detailed enough schematic diagram I am pretty sure you will find the vagus nerve will wander through most, if not all of the areas you touch on in your post.
Please see my post re: Polyvagal Theory. Sympathetic/Parasympathetic is only 1/3 of the ANS which regulates HR and when there is trauma 1 & 2 don’t always respond to higher HR as Sympathetic ANS can also drastically LOWER HR very suddenly.
Quote:-
The missing pieces finally came together in 1995. Stephen Porges addressed this autonomic paradox when he published his landmark work positing the existence of a second parasympathetic system controlled by the 10th cranial nerve from the dorsal motor nucleus of the mid–brain stem. This primitive, unmyelinated vagus system appeared to be able to operate in parallel and somewhat independently of the sympathetic one (Levine, 1977). The pieces of this confounding enigma were finally coming together.
As you say - integrated very complex systems. It’s really a wonder that everything ever works when you examine everything!
Possibly - just theorising from what I have read - could it be anomalies in the substrate of the heart muscle? This is currently being researched in people with AF as another possible cause of AF.
There is also something that resonates for me but I know it is dismissed by many, which is about experiential memory. We know the body keeps the score emotionally and that it is recorded in cellular memory. The heart, as an organ may have some stored experiences at a cellular level and could it be that it was traumatised by the transplantation? We know that transplants prolong life in the recipients and eases suffering but transplanted organs also seem to have a more limited functional life expectancy. I wish I knew more.
PS - I believe the root cause is extremely multifaceted and like a fibrous root system of a young tree - lots of different branches to follow.
I didn't know that. But that is one more little bit of proof that something else inside our bodies is telling the heart to skip beats (as opposed to the heart doing it on it's own). Thank you for the info.
I agree, thanks for posting. I have always thought a cocktail of factors cause most of us to get AF. My broad approach, albeit with Flecainide as well, is to reduce as many lifestyle factors as I can identify by 25% + to reduce the AF risk. So far largely successful over 5 years. Seasons Greetings!
Thanks for posting your opinion. Because that's all it is. I get we are all looking to blame something for this nasty condition, but Im not buying that it is because of the things posted in this post.
You are right about that. Glands are an opinion (educated opinion) but still an opinion (or perhaps you could call it a theory). One fact in all of this is: when I eat too much sugar it causes my heart to afib (I have proved that hundreds of times - that is definitely a fact). Since the heart does not use sugar to contract (it's the only muscle in the body that doesn't), what is telling it to afib??
Well my adrenals went surgically 2004 and yet I got AF 2018 so I don't think they caused it. I blame stress, my daughter had just had major surgery and was facing another major op that was far worse and possibly terminal when I got AF. Luckily her health problems resolved themselves.
Stress triggers all kinds of chemicals to be released inside your body. Which one is causing you grief is still unknown. Hang on for another hundred years and perhaps we will have the answers!
Thank you for posting your thoughts re AF. I keep my mind open to and appreciate all suggestions as to the cause. How some people totally reject others ideas, never ceases to amaze me. Open discussion on this forum, which we know is visited by heart medical professionals, may well lead to discovering the cause and cure. Everyone, please let's welcome all new ideas, show that we appreciate them and keep an open mind. Jean
Well, I copyedit papers on head pain for my sins and one thing I've learned is that these are incredibly complex conditions with no single root cause, and different triggers in different people. I suspect the same is very likely true of AF, so it wouldn't be at all surprising if glands and important nerves like the vagus are involved (stress is a huge factor in my AF). I have noticed, incidentally, that since I was forced into the gym (kicking and screaming) I am getting far fewer ectopics. Coincidence?
in reply to
Moderate exercise definitely helps my afibbing heart - quite often puts it back into normal rhythm withing an hour or so. I'm not sure why - my cousin suggested that I am burning off sugar while exercising but that's just a guess. We humans are so smart - but know so little about how our own bodies work! Perhaps in a hundred years we will have answers to our questions.
Well, one thing all doctors agree on is that alcohol causes dehydration, so it's possible that's all it is. Either way, as long as you know what is triggering your afib, it's now in your control to keep it at bay. Good luck!
Unfortunately booze is the only thing that I can say for a fact that causes me to go into a fib. The following day after a big night drinking is miserable. Hence why I totally quit
Listen to your body - closely. You will find what is causing your afib. Took me nearly 8 years, which is why I am sharing my results on this forum. Might not be the same for you, but something is causing it. Here are my results:
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After 9 years of trying different foods and logging EVERYTHING I ate, I found sugar (and to a lesser degree, salt – i.e. dehydration) was triggering my Afib. Doctors don't want to hear this - there is no money in telling patients to eat less sugar. Each person has a different sugar threshold - and it changes as you get older, so you need to count every gram of sugar you eat every day (including natural sugars in fruits, etc.). My tolerance level was 190 grams of sugar per day 8 years ago, 85 grams a year and a half ago, and 60 grams today, so AFIB episodes are more frequent and last longer (this is why all doctors agree that afib gets worse as you get older). If you keep your intake of sugar below your threshold level your AFIB will not happen again (easier said than done of course). It's not the food - it's the sugar (or salt - see below) IN the food that's causing your problems. Try it and you will see - should only take you 1 or 2 months of trial-and-error to find your threshold level. And for the record - ALL sugars are treated the same (honey, refined, agave, natural sugars in fruits, etc.). I successfully triggered AFIB by eating a bunch of plums and peaches one day just to test it out. In addition, I have noticed that moderate (afternoon) exercise (7-mile bike ride or 5-mile hike in the park) often puts my Afib heart back in to normal rhythm a couple hours later. Don’t know why – perhaps you burn off the excess sugars in your blood/muscles or sweat out excess salt?? I also found that strenuous exercise does no good – perhaps you make yourself dehydrated??
I'm pretty sure that Afib is caused by a gland(s) - like the Pancreas, Thyroid (sends signals to the heart to increase speed or strength of beat), Adrenal Gland (sends signals to increase heart rate), Sympathetic Nerve (increases heart rate) or Vagus Nerve (decreases heart rate), Hypothalamus Gland or others - or an organ that, in our old age, is not working well anymore and excess sugar or dehydration is causing them to send mixed signals to the heart - for example telling the heart to beat fast and slow at the same time - which causes it to skip beats, etc. I can't prove that (and neither can my doctors), but I have a very strong suspicion that that is the root cause of our Afib problems. I am working on this with a Nutritionist and hope to get some definitive proof in a few months.
Also, in addition to sugar, if you are dehydrated - this will trigger AFIB as well. It seems (but I have no proof of this) that a little uptick of salt in your blood is being treated the same as an uptick of sugar - both cause AFIB episodes. (I’m not a doctor – it may be the sugar in your muscles/organs and not in your blood, don’t know). In any case you have to keep hydrated, and not eat too much salt. The root problem is that our bodies are not processing sugar/salt properly and no doctor knows why, but the AFIB seems to be a symptom of this and not the primary problem, but medicine is not advanced enough to know the core reason that causes AFIB at this time. You can have a healthy heart and still have Afib – something inside us is triggering it when we eat too much sugar or get (even a little) dehydrated. Find out the core reason for this and you will be a millionaire and make the cover of Time Magazine! Good luck! - Rick Hyer
PS – there is a study backing up this data you can view at:
I totally agree! That and caffeine . I just went back into Afib and I’ve been drinking large quantities of Starbucks Christmas blend and spiked eggnog.
Nerves are the brains communication pathways. Healthy nerves are desirable. There does not seem to be many comments on how to insure we have healthy ones but I have not been reading posts of late so maybe someone has commented. I have read that blood flow to the nerves is a big factor. Technology used in Russia for many years is becoming known in the West and apparently helps insure healthy nerves and many other body components. These technologies are Scenar and PEMF. Anyone interested can research these.
Wow, a new way to think, possibly. I wonder if we will ever get to look back to see the REAL why of what is truly happening for those of us in the Afib ferris wheel of things. I wonder if Ablations will be a thing of the past - new technology or discovery?
Hard to say what is REALLY causing our afib problems. Quite a few doctors still think it is the heart doing this on it's own. If they are right then ablations will be here forever. If they are wrong (and I believe they are) then yes, ablations will end, as an ablation would only be treating the symptom and not addressing the core problem. It would be better if it were the heart, as that would be easier to solve and fix. The glands and organs are a quagmire of messages and chemical transmissions - a spaghetti bowl of twisted communications. Don't know if we ever will get it figured out.
Research lately has been concentrated on T-Wave alternans, SO+ and Ca+ to explain tachycardia and arrhythmias.
Academia.edu has many scientific papers about the above but only understandable by peers.
Well, I think we agree on most stuff. I agree that many things can trigger afib. For me it's sugar and dehydration. What we agree on (I think) is that the triggers don't go directly to the heart, but via another path, which then sends signals to the heart to skip beats, etc. For sure sugar doesn't affect the heart directly because the heart does not use sugar for its muscles to contract (uses fats). We also agree that the electrical system is causing the heart to beat. But something is telling the heart to beat fast. And slow. And hard. And softly. Possibly at the same time if the something is not working correctly. So what is the something? I'm thinking it's the glands, since those are the only things in the body (that i know of) that directly communicate with the heart to beat fast, slow, etc. Do you know of something else that communicates with the heart?
The heart, by itself, would only beat a normal "sitting down and resting" beat (that's what it does when transplanted into another person). The glands monitor the oxygen level in the blood to know if we are exercising and then send a signal to the heart (usually via a chemical in the blood stream) to beat fast. The glands know when we are resting/sleeping and tell the heart to beat slowly. Like you say - if the sympathetic nerve is over-activated it will cause the heart to race. The heart doesn't race on it's own. So . . . what is causing the sympathetic nerve to over-activate?? Didn't use to over-activate when we were younger - something isn't working now. If we could fix the sympathetic nerve to not over-activate when we partake in our triggers, we would solve the racing heart problem. Snipping the electrical circuits in the heart may also stop the racing, but the sympathetic nerve is still being over-activated and sending messages to the heart to race (but the heart can't because it's circuits have been snipped). So it seems the problem has been fixed, but the root cause is still happening. And it seems, in many folks, that the heart re-wires itself over time to accommodate the sympathetic nerve's messages to race, and the racing, or afib, comes back again.
Does any of this make sense? And remember - all this stuff I write about is just a theory - no hard facts to back it up (a few facts but not enough to promote a Study on the subject). I could be all wrong, and I'll be the first to admit it when someone else comes up with a better theory. My doctors have no idea what causes afib - they just snip wires to make it stop.
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