Comments for CDreamer

G'day CD,

Funny you should post that ...... had a weird time last night (about 3.45am and sleeping on my left side) and came to a similar conclusion. Woke up to several squadrons of butterflies having a dog fight on left side of chest. HR was 64 bpm, an ECG trace on my handheld device showed erratic ( as opposed to chaotic) behaviour with the comment 'signs of irregular beat activity'.

The dogfight went on for about 90 minutes and everything settled down - the good guys won My bet is a short sharp mugging of Atrial Flutter. And I hadn't been acting like a mountain goat either

So then started the analysis of why ? In the morning I'd been to my local Chiropractor for a 20 minute maintenance session for my mischievous back. In the evening about 6.30 had an M & S Chinese meal .... the one you buy and then take home and heat up (or whatever the process is). The Chinese was a little spicier than I would like but no issues at the time or shortly after. I'll put it all down to vagal nerve again, stirred up by a combination of Chiropractic work and ingredients of the Chinese, and sleeping on left side ! As I write, I'm as fit as if I'd played a 50 over cricket match in the middle of a Sydney summer.

On the photographic side of things the attached illustrates my walking abilities ..... a shot of part of the Hayle Estuary .... no I don't do hills like in the back ground, just the foreshores of the estuary, that's my limit. Its flat

John

NB: Just found the packaging of some of the Chinese .... soyabeans, different ingredients of roast pork incl. crumbed roast pork crackling and a wide range of spices ..... well that'll do it every time ! "Stupid boy" as Capt Mainwaring would say. And of course the time from when the meal finished to when I woke up would correspond to the time the food would go through the digestive system.

[Hennerton]

I know I shall sound like a complete misery but why, oh why are you eating stuff out of packets? It is full of additional chemicals that your body does not need, is not “ fresh”, as it has been sitting around in a packet for days and you could do so much better yourself, I am sure. Anyone can cook. It is not difficult. Sorry and I don’t mean to offend but home cooked, fresh, organic food cannot be beaten. Your body will love you for it.

[Hidden in reply to Hennerton]

Hi there Hennerton,

Well I won't take offence at your, perhaps, judgemental comments because you weren't to know you are preaching to the converted. Every once in a while much beloved chooses to get packaged food ... we both forgot to check the labelling in this case. Pork, even fresh cooked pork, with or without crackling can and has set me off. As for cooking - if left to me we'd both end up with food poisoning !! Its the relationship between food and the digestive system and the vagal nerve that can put me into AF.

That said .... I was diagnosed with paroxysmal AF in Jan 2010. By September 2011 I had identified the onset of AF with food I'd eaten, I had been checked out for Coeliac Disease and IBS and cleared. I then consulted a Nutritionist who introduced me to a food plan and what foods to eat that calmed the vagal nerve, which in turn calmed the heart. In addition to meds I am on for AF it has been eating "FRESH" as you put it that has enabled me to boast that I have only had one AF event since April 2015, and that was in February 2018 sleeping on my left side, waking me up in the early hours.

In addition, this year I have had two minor rapid heart beat events, but not tipped me into AF.

So, compared to many on this forum I've done good ! Bear in mind - no cardioversion and no ablation. Just part of a natural process with food and diet.

Also on the topic of fresh food there are many foods that are deemed healthy which I can't eat ... fer instance, if I ate according to the health mantra ..."eat 5 to 7 fruit and veg a day" I would have permanent occupancy of the bathroom. I cannot eat lettuce, runner beans, peas - soft cheese, citrus fruit .... and the list goes on and on and on. As a matter of interest I live in very rural Cornwall, about half way between two Farm Shops, plenty of fresh fruit and veg available ..... just a pity my gut won't let me eat everything on sale. Then again, I'm also on Warfarin which also has restrictions on what I can eat and can't.

Be assured, my much beloved and I are guided by a well qualified Nutritionist as to diet and food. Ultimately, my GUT is the boss ... I know what I can get away with and what I can't. So does my heart. I feel I had mild Aflutter last night brought about by a rare combination of Chiropractic work and food.

Hope this enables you to see things in context. Thanks anyway for your concern and advice - which gives me the opportunity to preach yet again - as many on here know I do, given half a chance.

John

[Hennerton in reply to Hidden]

Thank you for putting me straight and I am laughing happily and am very pleased that you are another disciple of the ‘cook your own’ principle. If everyone were like us, there would be no obesity (another one of my little rants!)

[majjic in reply to Hennerton]

It's not strictly true that there would be no obesity.....I am sadly obese....I cook all my food from scratch with fresh ingredients and as i'm watching my weight like a hawk i have very small portions....However.....In addition to Afib i have COPD and can't exert myself....if i do i can't breath.....however many puffs of my inhalers i have....There are many reasons for obesity....not all because of eating junk.

[Hennerton in reply to majjic]

There are exceptions to every rule and you are clearly one of them.

I am talking about the people who order in buckets of take away food and gorge it in front of the television every night. They know who they are and there are probably very few on this site, as Afib is a good wake up call. Please do not feel offended but I am truly tired of the NHS wasting precious money on people who do not help themselves and expect us all to pay for it.

[Auriculaire in reply to majjic]

Have you had your vit d levels tested? Having inadequate levels can make COPD much worse. Also n acetyl cysteine can help with this as well.

[majjic in reply to Auriculaire]

No i haven't

[majjic in reply to Auriculaire]

I take vit d every day in the form of a spray under my tongue...simply because i don't get out into the sun very much.

[Auriculaire in reply to majjic]

It might be worth having your level tested to see if you are taking enough. Absorption of vit d differs enormously between individuals. On the same dose per day of vit d supplements my husband had quite good levels and I could not even make it into the normal range! How well your liver does the first processing matters enormously. I get a vit d analogue prescribed now that is the same as what comes out of the liver. This works well for me and I am able to keep good levels year round.

[Rebma in reply to majjic]

I also have Afib, atrial flutter etc. Was recently diagnosed with asthma. My cardiologist is against my using inhalers and nebulizer due to the chance of the medicine increasing heart rate and rythum . What asthma medications do you use? Thank you

[majjic in reply to Rebma]

I also suffer from a racing hear in addition to Afib and i take inhalers. I inhale 2 puffs per day of Duaklir Genuair and also if i have to walk to my car or anywhere else really i have two puffs of Ventolin and i whistle breath....it helps.

[Rebma in reply to majjic]

Thank you for your reply. I will ask my primary doctor. Stay well.

[Auriculaire in reply to Hennerton]

Not true. I am obese by BMI and have been for many years. Part of my trouble was undiagnosed hypothyroidism for many years. The weight I piled on despite being pretty active never came off though with treatment I stopped gaining and stayed the same ( still officially obese) for about 15 years. I have gained again in the last 5 years due to a combination of factors one of which is my thyroid playing up again due to med reduction due to afib which started after being given Cipro for diverticulitis. When having episodes of the latter I would lose weight due to having to be on a liquid then restricted diet. But the body reacts to this period of starvation by putting weight back on again and more after a return to normal eating. As for the latter I cook from fresh every day or eat food from the freezer that I have cooked previously. We even have homemade bread that my husband makes and I make my own granola. I do not over eat and eat very little sweet stuff and moderate carbs. The causes of obesity can be much more complex than you imply.

[Hennerton in reply to Auriculaire]

I have no thyroid and quickly realised that the NHS deals very poorly with thyroid patients. It is the same the world over and there seems to be a conspiracy to keep us all ill.

Have you ever used the Thyroid UK site of Healthunlocked? You will find knowledgeable people there to help ensure you are on the right dose or may need the addition of Liothyronine, known as T3. This is the active hormone and is made by conversion of your Levothyroxine. Some people (like me) find it hard to convert and so need to take both hormones. Easier said than done because the NHS is now reluctant to prescribe it but do ask questions and you will find help in countless ways. You should not struggle with weight issues if your medication is right for you.

[Auriculaire in reply to Hennerton]

For many years I took a T4/T3 combo on which I felt well and did not gain any more weight but did not lose the weight I had put on despite being fairly active - dancing and teaching dance . I started this in England and it was continued here in France where for the first time I actually saw an endocrinologist. But it had the effect of suppressing my TSH. The endo was not worried about this as my free Ts were always in range and she said it was normal for liothyronine to suppress TSH. But when I was hospitalised with afib the cardiologist went mad and said it was because my TSH was too low. The endo I think must have been a bit intimidated by him especially as combo therapy is not orthodox here so no more T3 and a reduction in T4! Lately my TSH has risen to well over the top of the normal range so the GP has told me to increase the thyroxine. Due to widespread tendonitis and cartilage damage ( thank you Cipro) I am unable to exercise much though I still do gardening. I think the beta blocker has not helped with weight either and I am hoping to wean off. At the moment my heart is behaving ( no afib for over a year) but I am frightened to return to the T3 ( imported Nature -throid) as Fluoroquinolone Toxicity can bugger up your response to thyroid meds. I am putting up my T4 very gradually whilst trying to wean off the bb at the same time. But there is not much I can do about the lack of exercise. I cannot walk for very long before getting pain in my Achilles tendons and my arthritic hip. The latter makes doing the exercise bike very painful. Swimming is out because the chlorine makes me ill and I have rotator cuff tendonitis too. At least I can do my garden still but it is very gentle exercise nothing like the intense cardio workout of Bharatanatyam!

[Hennerton in reply to Auriculaire]

I am so sorry about your being taken off T3 and I dread it all the time as my TSH is very suppressed. So far I tell my GP that this is normal when on T3 and she makes no fuss but one day I know someone will come along and ruin it for me.

I was on T4 only for many years after thyroidectomy and could not understand why I was unwell with so many odd things. Then I read a book and discovered T3 and found the HU site. During one of those odd illnesses, a urinary tract infection, I too was put on Cipro but reacted so badly within two days, I asked to come off it. It is lethal stuff. I am so sorry you are suffering still. I hope one day you may try T3 again, maybe a very low dose to start, like 5mcg per day and see how you get on. Best wishes...

[Auriculaire in reply to Hennerton]

I am surprised you have been allowed to stay on it if you have afib.

[Hennerton in reply to Auriculaire]

I am always waiting for an unenlightened doctor to take it away from me...

[Auriculaire in reply to Hennerton]

You can always import it in the form of Armour or Nature-Throid from the US. The Liothyronine pills here in France are very small and come in 25 mcg . I would not wish to try more than 2 or 3 mcg to start with. Once I have got my T4 up more and weaned off the beta blocker I might try some Nature Throid again as a quarter grain would only contain 2.25 mg. May I ask which book you read?

[Hennerton in reply to Auriculaire]

There were three books, actually. One was by the lovely Dr Skinner, whom I then visited in Birmingham, before he sadly died of a stroke and the other was by Dr Durrant-Peatfield. The latter contains much relevant information. There is even a chapter on Losing Weight. It is called “Your thyroid and how to keep it healthy”. This book became the one to set me on the road to managing without a thyroid and discovering the existence of Liothyronine.

[Hennerton in reply to Auriculaire]

Sorry, meant to say I cut up my T3 and have no problem with doing that; if the pieces are not even, it does not really matter as long as you ensure you are taking the pieces from the same tablet consecutively,

[Auriculaire in reply to Hennerton]

I read both books when first diagnosed with hypothyroidism about 19 years ago. I think I must have given them to my step daughter who also went to see Dr Skinner as I can't find them on my bookshelves. I started on Liothyronine in the UK as I had a sympathetic GP and continued here in France . I seem to remember the tabs in the UK were 20mcg and even smaller to cut up!

[BobD Volunteer]

How much MSG is there in the chinese John? That would do it.

[Hidden in reply to BobD]

Hiya Bob,

Yeah I had a look at that .... been ferreting through the recycling. Found we had two seperate meals. In addition to the Sticky Chinese Pork Ribs (Gluten Free), which we thought appealing and a declaration of allergens, I couldn't find any reference to MSG, we also had a portion of Salt and Pepper Chicken. Looking at the allergens warning on this packaging it does say "not suitable for wheat allergy sufferers and Coeliacs due to manufacturing methods". Missed that ! However, again no reference to MSG. How odd. I can only assume that whoever puts this stuff together for M & S Food, either don't use it or do use it but don't declare it - which I thought would be illegal or to say the least highly irregular.

John

[CDreamer]

Hi John - I know you consider your food but unfortunately it can sometimes be require only one off.

Unfortunately I can’t blame mine on food but possibly on eating as I went into arrythmia the same time today - after eating lunch. I did everything right - homemade from scratch minestrone soup with 2 small pieces of rye sour dough and olive oil, stayed sat down for 30 mins chatting but started about 15 mins after eating, self converted after 3 hours and It wan’t as fast today 141 and with regular pulse but looked like Atrial Flutter to me. Still made me feel lousy so the Lemon Tree didn’t make it to the greenhouse - see what tomorrow brings.

[JaneFinn in reply to CDreamer]

Oh no CDreamer 😕 I’m so sorry. Hoping tomorrow is a much better day xxx

[Stayfocussed in reply to CDreamer]

Hi....I find I'm much better off not sitting after a meal as walking around helps with digestion and does'nt trigger the vagus nerve. My problem is at night after dinner and I'm tired and want to sit down and I've had potatoes or rice, there is too much starch and I can't digest it, the bloating triggers the vagus nerve and into A/F I go. So....small meals at night, like soup by 5.30pm, go for a walk or do some housework after meals and avoid food allergies. That's what I'm doing

[CDreamer in reply to Stayfocussed]

I had a series of episodes about 18 months ago triggered by getting up after a meal which is why I now have the 20-30 mins of Rest & Digest mode after eating - so this is another shift. Thankfully nothing today.

Agree re starches - we hardly ever have rice, potatoes unless sweet potatoes these days and we both feel much better as a result - biggest cause of acid reflux I found - along with bread & cereal.

[Hidden in reply to Stayfocussed]

Hi,

Back in the day, my early days of AF and before I consulted a Nutritionist my symptoms were, intestinal gurgling, diahorrea, burping and bloating, massive, massive and painful bloating. I could see my gut inflate like I was on an air line pumping up my car tyres in a garage. All of these were totally random, never predictable, and never at the same time. By far and away the worst was the bloating which while noticeable in the gut region transferred mild pain to my heart region. Then BINGO ! Jackpot! whizz bang wallop ....... like you, into AF I'd go.

Amazing.

John

[oliviab9]

Hi read your post with interest as had a relatively long period af free and then had two recent episodes both of which were following m&s ready meals . Don’t know whether this is just coincidence but never normally eat ,didn’t look at ingredients though. Don’t plan on eating anymore lesson learned.

[Hidden in reply to oliviab9]

Hi oliviab9,

Interesting .... we don't eat them regularly maybe once in every three or four months, all depending on domestic circumstances. The one thing I've learned on this damn AF journey is to carefully read ingredients list on packaging. My start point of course is knowing that I should try and stay gluten free ( both food and alcohol), but added to that is wheat and oats free too.

John

[JaneFinn]

Sorry to hear this John 😕 It’s gutting when something kicks the arrhythmia off - especially when you’ve been so careful for so long.

Very glad the good guys won! Here’s to the bad guys getting no look in from now on... x

[Becksagogo]

I read your post with interest because I have gallstones and sweet & sour sauce sets them off! I can eat other spicy food with no problem although I do tend to limit it because I feel I may be playing Russian roulette with them.

[DueNorth]

That was not just a ready meal - it was a Marks and Spencer MSG free but still AF inducing ready meal...

I can't eat chinese food without an af episode soon after. I do suspect it to be MSG but have always wondered whether a specific spice is a trigger. Neither can I sleep on my left side. Also, any type of proper massage seems to release toxins back into my system and kick me off. So I could pick any one from three...

[wilsond]

Flutter is usually very fast ,very regular pattern,unlike the butterfly/ tap-dancing frog of Fibrillation...so may not have been that, maybe a variation on a AFib theme?

[reinaway]

Was there MSG in the recipe? This will always start my AF off. If I make the spicey recipes my self I am careful to keep the flavour on the low side. I have found that although convenient the ready meals will sometimes do this to me. As for any kind of stress physical or mental that's a risk too! Oh the joys of age and AF!!😠