AF and My Dentist's Idea - Well! - Atrial Fibrillati...

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AF and My Dentist's Idea - Well!

jeanjeannie50 profile image
60 Replies

I had a dental appointment yesterday, now my German dentist understands AF as his wife had quite an extreme form where her heart would go so fast she'd lose consciousness.

I told him I'd been 6 months AF free, until I'd started pulling out brambles in the garden a few weeks ago and a few heart bumps had started, next morning I'd gone swimming and then when I arrived home my heart rhythm took off making me feel hot, faint and dizzy. I'm still in AF now, but at a lower rate.

Immediately he answered, "It sounds to me like you have inflammation in your body and when you use your muscles, toxins from that area are released and affect you heart". I was astounded by his reply and thought what a sensible and plausible idea. Now why didn't my GP think of that? In fact why doesn't any professional medical person think that way?

He's right about the inflammation in my body and I'm waiting to see a consultant about it.

I'm just wondering what your views are on his simple response?

Jean

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jeanjeannie50 profile image
jeanjeannie50
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60 Replies
Sunny-fl profile image
Sunny-fl

I think a lot of your dentist response regarding inflammation as I had inflammation in my lungs (radiation pneumonitis) that started at the same time as the a fib. Prednisone cleared up the inflammation but of course the a fib is still there.

jeanjeannie50 profile image
jeanjeannie50 in reply to Sunny-fl

Yes, that's a thought whether inflammation actually is the cause or trigger for AF!

wilsond profile image
wilsond

Fascinating theory.....

jeanjeannie50 profile image
jeanjeannie50 in reply to wilsond

You know, I'd really like to believe that theory. I've always felt that the cure for AF could be something quite simple.

wilsond profile image
wilsond in reply to jeanjeannie50

Wouldn't it be great? It's always made me think....we are told it's a symptom of bodily distress ,not a disease,and many of us have hearts that have no structural issues...xx

Coeurdelion profile image
Coeurdelion

Hi JJ

Its nice when somebody comes up with a possible new cause/ trigger for the dreaded arrhythmias. It's better than being offered more drugs or ablations.

How long before you see a consutant?

jeanjeannie50 profile image
jeanjeannie50 in reply to Coeurdelion

See consultant re inflammation on Sept 3rd.

Yes, I'm always interested in any new ideas for AF cures too.

I've been discharged from my EP, three ablations didn't cure my AF and he didn't feel any more would help me.

Ablations and pills - my horror! Oh to have better choices!

Coeurdelion profile image
Coeurdelion in reply to jeanjeannie50

I'm still looking for something to come out of the TVNS studies that are currently underway.

jeanjeannie50 profile image
jeanjeannie50 in reply to Coeurdelion

Me too! We should volunteer to trial it.

Aun4sim profile image
Aun4sim in reply to jeanjeannie50

Hi this is very interesting to read as iv just seen my cardiologist to be offered a second ablation or medication ....I don’t really want either!!I told her how the anxiety that runs alongside it becomes bigger then the problem and stops me from doing fun things or going abroad living in dread for the next episode of svt she went on to tell me there will soon be a nasal spray on the market 2/3 years)what you use as soon as you get an attack this news has made me feel very excited but 2/3 years is a long way away but how fab if it works imagine how our lives would change .

RayB profile image
RayB

One day someone will say,,, I wonder if I were to go on a non inflamatory diet how I would fare,, and do it!

Perhaps living on 100% fruit like myself!

Incidentaly I only eat one type of fruit in any meal,,, I have one meal a day and I have nothing after 4PM other than water or herbal tea,, no sugar no tea or coffee and no alcohol ever.

Two of the most inflamatory foods you can eat are grains and dairy but not the only ones.

jeanjeannie50 profile image
jeanjeannie50 in reply to RayB

Your diet sounds interesting,can you tell us more please. Have you managed to cure your AF?

RayB profile image
RayB in reply to jeanjeannie50

Jean, I do not have AF. I do however have prostate cancer and fibromyalgia.

I refused radiation and surgery for the prostate much to the disbelief of the consultant,,, verging on anger.

That was about 8 mths ago and the symptoms are getting better and my PSA is now down to below 1 from 8.7 ,, I think,,, and without any hormones or drugs. I am in no doubt that it will resolve.

It is not difficult once you make your mind up and as to it spiking your sugar,, I have measured my BSL and the spike is not that high and normalises quickly even if I were to eat a rediculous amount of fruit.

I make a lot of use of watermelon, pineapple,, any decient fruit I can find but I avoid berries as they are notorious for sucking in pesticides,, if I could get organic berries they would be fine but none to be got here.

I suggest you google and download Prof Arnold Ehret's book it's out of print and can be gotten for free in PDF format ,, just google him. There is a bit more to it than that but start reading searching and learning,, that's my tupence worth.

Once you have a few days past it's quite easy once you get all the stodge out of your colon,, probably about 48 hrs.

It dosen't matter what the ilness is,, it is about the body getting a chance to heal it's self,,, Dr's cure nothing! Drugs cure nothing,, its just being traped on a treadmill and swallowing pills.

You need nothing special,,it's not about what you take but what you do not take,, many will try and sell you some herb or whatever but I don't buy that as do may that have did this long term.

And before anyone starts harping on about protein and B12 my B12 is better than it had ever been.. my blood pressure is now around 127 / 65 and resting HR of 65 apox.

My resting HR used to be verging on techicardia at high 90's.

Just Read and search.

Best Wishes, Ray

jeanjeannie50 profile image
jeanjeannie50 in reply to RayB

John that's amazing to hear, but I'm not surprised at how you've managed to help yourself. My father was a great believer in healthy eating long before it became fashionable, he turned to healthy eating in the 1950's. There was a book written many years ago which I think was called The Gentle Way With Cancer, which involved the Bristol diet. I don't know whether the author you mention is connected to that in any way, but I will look him up.

I'm so pleased to hear that you're getting better and have to say that I admire your decision and would hope that, in a similar situation mine would be the same.

Jean

secondtry profile image
secondtry in reply to RayB

Hi Ray, this is very timely and thank you for taking the trouble to provide such useful information. My PSA was historically around 1, then after 5 years found it was 4.1 and 6 months later 4.6 not looking forward to the next 6 month test later this month. Would like to try your approach, if I can trouble you could you give me a headstart by listing your Top 3 tips for me to focus on. Best wishes and would like to be present to see your consultant's face if you go back!

RayB profile image
RayB in reply to secondtry

Certaintly, I will PM you with a few links!

JaneFinn profile image
JaneFinn

Very intriguing theory, Jean. I like the sound of your dentist!

Can I ask which kind of consultant you’re seeing about inflammation? And are there tests for levels of general inflammation in the body ?

I’d be very interested to hear how you get on :) x

jeanjeannie50 profile image
jeanjeannie50 in reply to JaneFinn

Certain blood tests can show inflammation levels.

Do we all have some kind of inflammation going on I wonder?

My dentist is amazing, he once told me that by looking at my tongue he could tell I was short of vitamin B. I think Germans are more into natural health solutions than we are.

CDreamer profile image
CDreamer in reply to jeanjeannie50

I think the medics are all just much better trained in Europe. I had a much more wholistic and much more efficient care generally in Spain.

Bambi65 profile image
Bambi65 in reply to jeanjeannie50

Im doing accupuncture and each and every time I go (3x a week for my afib) he looks at my tongue. And he feels for my pulse in my wrist in 3 different spots.

CDreamer profile image
CDreamer

Hi Jean - I have mentioned this quite a few times. Stress = inflammatory response and stress can mean a physical stress ie over exercise add on emotional and psychological stress ie frustration .........

There are quite a few herbs and foods you can include in your diet which really help with this - the main 2 I use are Resveratrol and Astragalus. Anything dark purple in colour such as sable grapes, beetroot etc will be rich in Resveratrol but you can take a concentrated liquid form which is incredibly affective. Astragalus is great if you have a virus.

I also find that if it is physical overload, which happens quite a lot with me when I’m gardening, having a warm bath with added Sea Salt (or if you can Epsom Salts) really help move the lactic acid from the muscles. Athletes go into ice baths immediately after racing for exactly this reason - to minimise any inflammatory response.

I have found though that the only real remedy for me is allowing for a long period of rest after any exercise and rest means feet up and doing nothing. Again elite athletes are trained to do this - their day consists of cycles of training and then sleeping and eating.

We push ourselves far too far and don’t allow enough R&R time. Certainly our GPs are very aware of this, the trouble is that 10 minute appointments don’t allow for explanations and sitting down and telling you. My GP’s constantly monitor inflammatory markers in blood and urine because of my medical history but I think this should be part of a regular practice for anyone with a chronic condition - information, training and monitoring. You can ask for a CPR test which is none specific but will give you an indication of the level of inflammation in your body.

jeanjeannie50 profile image
jeanjeannie50 in reply to CDreamer

Hi CD

I knew about stress and inflammation causing AF also athletes who tend to train very hard. What struck me with what my dentist said was that it was actually me using my muscles and doing something physical that may have allowed the toxins from inflammation in my body to upset my heart. Perhaps that has been said on here before and I missed it. Though thinking about it now I guess stress makes us tense our muscles which is a similar thing.

It was just so lovely to hear a simple reason for the onset of my AF. Such a better way to look at the cause, rather than what pill shall we give you now. If we know our AF triggers we can avoid them, but alas I guess there are so many causes!

I didn't feel like going swimming when I did, should have listened to my body!

Thank you for the tips re Resveratrol and Astragalus. I'll look into buying some. I do eat beetroot and black grapes regularly and also have magnesium baths.

RayB profile image
RayB in reply to CDreamer

Remember there are three forms of stress,,, Mental Phisical and Systemic,,, they all have the same effects on the body!

jeanjeannie50 profile image
jeanjeannie50

True, but for me having been AF free for over 6 months and then doing lots of exercise and AF immediately kicking off - well, my dentists theory sounds more likely.

Janith profile image
Janith in reply to jeanjeannie50

You should do some form of exercise daily.

jeanjeannie50 profile image
jeanjeannie50 in reply to Janith

I do a lot of gardening and try to go for walks as often as I can.

Janith profile image
Janith in reply to jeanjeannie50

Good ... that way your body isn’t shocked when you do extra stuff!

CDreamer profile image
CDreamer

PS - Ashwaganda is a herb often used in Indian medicine as a an anti-inflammatory adaptation.

I would certainly agree that sugar, some grains such as wheat and dairy are the main antagonists for inflammation generally and cut those foods out and it makes a huge difference. I’m not sure I could go to only eating fruit though as my Nutritionist is very hot on increasing protein proportionally and believes restricting fruit to a handful of berries a day is ideal.

I have to say I haven’t been that strict with myself on holidays and am suffering right now!

jeanjeannie50 profile image
jeanjeannie50 in reply to CDreamer

Oh no, we often have to learn what not to eat, the hard way! Sometimes it's worth it though, rather than make a fuss with hosts that you don't eat this or that!

I sometimes wonder if I eat too much fruit every day without fail I have a banana, two apples, two satsumas, a kiwi, nectarine, dates and sultanas. Then weekly there are grapes and peaches.

Buffafly profile image
Buffafly in reply to jeanjeannie50

😮

RayB profile image
RayB

John see my reply to Jean!

Im sorry I cannot answer you question any better,, all I can say is that I am doing it and I am happy I am at this stage going by experiance,, I am so glad I took the step forward that i did.

Sadly people just do not know were to look and half of those that do will not make the changes necessary,, but that is there decision.

Everyone wants proof,,, what proof dose you Dr offer,, he can't even gaurentee you will make it out the door!

I am selling nothing just telling of my own first hand experiance.

Best Wishes, Ray

Buffafly profile image
Buffafly

I have been suffering with arthritis in my hip and knee and I have noticed that when the pain is bad I have lots of ectopics and sometimes little runs of something fast as well as extra trips to the loo during the night so I have no doubt that inflammation affects my heart.

opal11uk profile image
opal11uk

I was told this by my GP and then by my cardio, any inflammation would increase heart rate and that in turn would start off my P/A/F

Cliff_G profile image
Cliff_G

I think to be honest inflammation is pretty much well recognised by experts in AF. Check Dr John Mandrola's website drjohnm.org/heart-disease-b...

jennydog profile image
jennydog

This rings some bells for me.

Last year I caught the coughing virus and was so ill that I was hospitalized. The Consultant Neurologist said " It's either inflammation or the effects of radiotherapy." I reminded him that the radiotherapy on my left shoulder (10x more than a breast cancer patient would get) was over 30 years ago. "Yes" he replied " But the effects are ongoing."

I was stunned. So thanks to their experimental treatment I now have a disintegrating shoulder, fibrosis in my heart and a spastic arm and hand.

They've now got me on Cannabis oil which is of very dubious benefit.

Have I got inflammation? Probably. My dentist said that I' d got some gum disease but the 2 lots of antibiotic which they gave to me in hospital certainly cured that.

I suspect that they are only ever grasping at straws.

CDreamer profile image
CDreamer in reply to jennydog

I think the treatments for cancer are absolutely brutal and have horrible on-going consequences but unfortunately it was that or nothing 30 years ago.

I find the early markers for systemic inflammation for me are - sticky, itchy eyes in the morning or inside of the lids going pink, aching muscles - even when I haven’t done too much, chronic fatigue and a rash where one shouldn’t get a rash.

Bleeding gums are a real big marker and one that can cause a lot of damage to the rest of the body so good gum hygiene is really important. I see hygienist 4 times a year as the gum disease I had 15 years ago ended up costing me a fortune in reparative treatments.

Cannabis oil is also a good adaptagen but herbs work in such a different way to drugs. Did you get that prescribed through NHS?

I think the true consequences of stress - inflammation - disease have only been truly recognised in the last 20-30 years.

in reply to CDreamer

Can well relate to that, I am now rigorous in my dental routine and like you spent a fortune on dental treatments tackling gum disease ! Inflammation I am convinced causes a huge amount of AF cases, poor diet, stress, lack of sleep, lack of connect with nature, long working hours etc !

Andy

jennydog profile image
jennydog in reply to CDreamer

Did I get cannabis oil on the NHS?

Yes, after 3 lots of drugs had failed the Neurologist prescribed Sativex spray for my spasticity. I do intend to post about it soon. Suffice to say that it is vile tasting and of doubtful benefit.

BRHow profile image
BRHow

Anybody who takes advice from a dentist over a real Dr. has lost their mind and should see a psychologist ASAP. A dentist (who’s wife has AF)does not Know 5% of what a real doctor knows about AF. SMH!! Is this real life?

Bambi65 profile image
Bambi65 in reply to BRHow

none of us here are doctors either, but we all have our experiences and you are hear reading them. I often choose not to take recommendations of my "doctor" often, simply because I know my body so much better than he does in the 15 minutes he spent with me. I listen to his "suggestions" then I do my own investigations, and talk with others in similar situations to get their input.

After I have exhausted all possible avenues, then I make a decision on what to do. Im also married to a surgeon, and our conversations about medical treatments are from two different perspectives. His comes from medical school and practice, mine comes from life experience and open to new ideas from all sources. We all look for what will work for our personal AFIB's. So lets not blast someone that has a new idea or a new perspective. You never know what will work for that person. Unless, YOU have found a cure for your Afib lets not poo-poo or insult others opinions. And btw... a dentist IS a real doctor,

jeanjeannie50 profile image
jeanjeannie50

My dentist said little about my AF other than what I wrote above. I felt his words could be right. So you think I need to see a psychologist? Are you medically trained to give me that advice? Do you think I should I be listening to what you advise?

Bambi65 profile image
Bambi65 in reply to jeanjeannie50

I replied to him. Maybe his doctor cured his Afib.????

Auriculaire profile image
Auriculaire in reply to jeanjeannie50

Appalling arrogance. My first ( suspected) afib attack came after a bout of diverticulitis though I suspect the Cipro treatment as much as the actual infection as the last CRP blood test done at the hospital showed the inflammation marker well down and the attack came when I got home. But my last one last Oct was after a UTI. All I took for that was d mannose and oregano oil. I think your dentist's theory perfectly plausible.

jeanjeannie50 profile image
jeanjeannie50 in reply to Auriculaire

I was just totally amazed at the simple cause he suggested, it sounded exactly right to me. My dentist is such a gentle, quietly spoken person, he said no more about it than a few sentences and my mouth was full of dental implements so I couldn't speak. No medical professional has ever discussed the cause of AF with me and it was so refreshing to hear.

That's interesting re the d mannose and oregano oil helping your AF. Do you take a combined mixture, or the two separately? Years ago I took a combination of oregano and garlic oil to cure h-pylori.

Auriculaire profile image
Auriculaire in reply to jeanjeannie50

I took the combo for the UTI not the afib. I did not want to take an antibiotic. I would be very reluctant to take anything other than Augmentin which I know I tolerate and I had already had one 14 day stretch of that earlier last year before my damaged colon was shortened. The combination worked but the day the afib struck after about 12 days of taking it I was feeling really really tired. Still apart from a few ectopics I have been afib free for 10 months now. I take 1.25 mg Nebivolol ,Apixaban and am very strict about magnesium 3 times a day.

Redders profile image
Redders

You always get one Jean. Ignore

Jennyquilt0 profile image
Jennyquilt0

My GP was the first to notice that every time I had some infection in other parts of my body I had a bad bout of AF . Now I notice it myself even a stomach upset will set it off. So there is a reaction in my case, but as always we are all different to what triggers we have.. all the best o you.

Bambi65 profile image
Bambi65

Ive been told the same thing! I developed RA, one year before the Afib. Its said that 60% of people that have been diagnosed with RA will develope Afib. Its all about the inflamation! I just left my RA doc yesterday. Blood work taken to look at my inflamation markers, and of course the regular testing. Will know results in 2 days

What your dentist said makes perfect sence to me too.

Tapanac profile image
Tapanac

Yes a flu virus landed me in hospital. Hope you feel better soon

TinCool profile image
TinCool

I think there's a definite link.

I fell really ill last August with a burst appendix. I suffered a massive infection. A week in hospital with IV antibiotics, then a couple of weeks after discharge, had AF and cardioverted, same again last January. Cardiologist alluded to the appendix being the culprit for kicking it all off. Now almost a year later, I'm a lot better, but it has taken me that long to get back in to any sense of normality.

Polski profile image
Polski

This is such a useful post/set of replies. Thank you Jean.

meadfoot profile image
meadfoot

His thoughts make sense to me. Bet there is so much we don't know on the subject of inflammation and its effects overall.

Janith profile image
Janith

Jean ... absolutely ... inflammation in the body can cause all sorts of bad things ... l take one half of a very mild statin ... l wanted to stop them altogether until l started reading about how they prevent inflammation in the body. My cholesterol is normal nonetheless, l take a very minimal low dose statin to keep it in check and deal with inflammation simultaneously!

Deb1838 profile image
Deb1838

Hi jean

Yesterday they kept asking me if I had an infection or recently had a cold which I had. I wonder if there was a marker in my bloods.

Deb

jeanjeannie50 profile image
jeanjeannie50 in reply to Deb1838

Could sounds like there could well have been.

Franny50 profile image
Franny50

Don't know if you follow Life Extension (LEF.org) but they now are advocating "metabolic cardiology." What they have to say about supplements for HF and heart dysfunction, and restoration of heart muscle, may also apply to AFIB. You might find it interesting.

lifeextension.com/magazine/...

jeanjeannie50 profile image
jeanjeannie50 in reply to Franny50

Will look, thank you.

jeanjeannie50 profile image
jeanjeannie50 in reply to Franny50

Fascinating read, thank you Franny.

cat55 profile image
cat55

Hi, thanks for your post, and much food for thought there. Two weeks ago had my first full blown AF episode for a couple of years (lots and lots of ? Ectopics though). It happened 4 days into my dog sitting fortnight for my son. I was taking the dog for many walks and had been struggling with a bad back for some weeks before so had been having gentle walks and exercise but nothing too strenuous. Did taking more strenuous exercise, and having back pain, cause it? Very interesting. I lived in Germany when my AF started. I was straight away put on a magnesium/potassium supplement. They are far more likely to advise complementary medicines than here. Myrtle oil capsules to help clear catarrh after a cold works at treat! There is so much more to be explored re causes of AF and maybe one day.......

Thanks for all you do answering queries and your support.

Best wishes, Kath.

jeanjeannie50 profile image
jeanjeannie50 in reply to cat55

Could well have been the back pain and exercise. One day up ahead perhaps we'll know a lot more.

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