Why are so many people scared to get ablati... - AF Association

AF Association
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Why are so many people scared to get ablation? It seems they are living a life of misery juggling medicine their entire life???

Why don’t people just pull the trigger on afib or SVT/aflutter ablation. I’ve had both with success so far. I hate medication and never knowing when I’m going to go out of rhythm. It ruined my life I couldn’t go on vacation out of the country or a cruise and enjoy myself. The success rate is so high 95% in America it’s a no brainer depending on your age. Of course I’m 39. I just wanted to know why everybody doesn’t just go for it. Even if you had to have 2 ablations for afib so be it. I’m just curious as to the suffering when there is a cure. As I have done both now and would never look back.

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I might agree with you had you not used that cure word. Removal of symptoms I would agree with but cure is a bit over kill in my mind. I might also argue your 95% success claim since the data I have seen suggests that complications in US are higher than here in UK or Europe. and I think a first time end to AF is considered around 75% at best but my data is not 2019!

Otherwise I agree that ablation should be a first line of attack against the dreadful symptoms of AF especially for those who are younger and fitter. I suspect that fear of the unknown and reading too many horror stories is one reason why people put off going for it. The risks are usually overstated as we know , more to protect the doctors from legal action than reailty and it seems that people do accept some of the dreadful drug side effects which could be avoided (of course not including the important anti coagulation which for many will be for life).

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I totally agree with you. The only reason I say 95% is because my EP has kept his own stats over 25 years and well over 1,000 ablations. That statistic was for me only I should have clarified. My age 39, only having afib 2 times, and it hasn’t progressed. Now if I was older, had constant afib that had been left untreated then you might need 2 ablations. But like I said I’ve had both. And both ablations were a success. Well time will tell about my recent one but sinus rhythm for over 2 weeks now. My aflutter ablation has been 4 years I don’t even think about it anymore. Not a peep of aflutter or SVT. Bottom line the sooner the better that’s why I did it ASAP!! I don’t know why older people are waiting and fighting with medication the clocks ticking!!

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You hit the nail on the head . Your EP has 25 yearsexperience over 1000 procedures. There are howveer a lot of people jumping on the band wagon with little experience these days. I have know my EP since 2005 and have similar faith.

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If it is so successful, may I ask why you had to have a second one. I'm glad you are feeling well

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Never considered it a cure really, only like Ablation Therapy to reduce the intensity and frequency of the symptoms. Obviously when someone says they're going to stab you in the crotch and burn bits of your heart and it might cause more problems than it addresses is enough in the back of some people's minds that it may not be worth the risk.

For me, I was adversely affected by PAF, debilitated, scared and unable to function when it hit. So to reduce how often and how intense these episodes were, aged just 31, was a no brainer. But for others it's no so cut and dry.

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That’s my story! Scared the hell out of me and I had it done ASAP

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Scared is perhaps the wrong word, well for me anyway, I'm not scared of having it done, but the potential problems with recovery, the relapses and possible need for it to be done several times is not something I want to risk, it worked for you and that's great but it doesn't mean it's right for everyone 😉

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What problems? I was told of no problems here in The USA just the basic recovery issues. And so what if you have to have 2 ablations to be done with the medicine and stay in sinus rhythm. And I got mine done after the first episode I’m not waiting for it to progress into the monster it becomes i wanted to live my life and travel. I don’t know where people are getting the problems with recovery? It can only help the issue definetly not hurt it. It’s a very cut and dry procedure. I’ve had both now and would never think twice of doing it again.

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Maybe you haven't read some of the posts where people have had or are having problems. Of course there are risks involved as with any invasive procedure and your EP should have told you !

For personal reasons repeated procedures is not an option for me.

I hope you continue to do well and have no further problems.

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Yeah I’m trying to google problems now and can’t find anything except the recovery process issues. Which I expected. No long term issues that I can find. I mean the regular less than 1% if they mess up something bad you might need a pacemaker. Just some very very unlikely problems. Other than that can’t find much besides the basics of recovery which everyone goes through. It’s about as simple as getting a stint put in your heart for a heart attack these days 🤷🏼‍♂️. The Technology is so advanced now the ablation machines don’t allow for error at all really. It’s minimally invasive at most. My cervical fusion when they sliced my neck open and put a new disc in and a titanium plate with 4 screws cutting around your corroded arteries is invasive surgery. Some EPs let you stay sedated awake for an ablation. No biggie in my eyes. But everybody body is their own. I hate the monster afib and I want it gone 💪🏻✌🏻

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mayoclinic.org/tests-proced...

Risks are clearly stated 😊

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Sometimes the ‘cure’ is worse than the disease. You have done well but it’s not always that straight forward.

When I developed AF aged 55-56 I hadn’t heard of ablation so it was 7 years before I knew of it as an option. Like you, I hated meds & was ready to do anything to avoid toxic chemicals.

1st ablation made my condition a LOT worse, from an EP who at that time had a record of 95% success. I ended up on Acute Coronary Care & quite ill & for several months incapacitated until Ablation no2 - complications = my heart stopping so I required CPR, TOE getting stuck in my esophagus causing digestive problems for months & exacerbation of an underlying Unkown condition causing the first 2 complications. I could go on. The next 2 years no AF but lots of meds for the neuro condition - I couldn’t drive, stand, walk or some days even get out of bed. Might I have been so ill if I hadn’t had the ablation? Don’t know because the AF was so bad any which way.

No2 meant I didn’t have AF again until September 2017. As I now can’t have GA or sedation without substantial risk - it’s no longer an option for me so I went for Pacemaker & AV node ablation. Had the PM inserted - needed revision so waiting now for the all clear & then consider whether or not to go for AV node ablation. Probably not as my symptoms have all but disappeared although I still get AF.

My QOL has significantly improved since PM so I would say ablation is just one of several options, including meds. We are all different & respond individually. Many people with acute anxiety would be pushed to go for any invasive procedure so my whilst I am really happy it worked for you, bear in mind that it’s not for everyone - many don’t have the resources to fund such a procedure, some won’t have access to healthcare period so it’s not a choice & others have other conditions which increase risk factors.

Best wishes CD

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What a journey you have had, hopefully you are on the road to recovery now.

A pacemaker certainly improved my husbands life which is why I'm leaning more towards that rather than ablation.

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This all happened in 2013-2014 so I’m long over it, thank you. It wasn’t the ablation that caused the weakness, it was Myasthenia gravis, exacerbated by sedation meds. The ablation was successful - no AF for 3 years - bliss - I just didn’t recover. Even with what happened to me I would go back for another ablation - if my Drs & I thought it was a good option for me, but it’s not.

So happy with the PM.

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Sorry that happened! But this is definitely the worst I’ve heard anywhere on the internet and definetly from any doctor. And why they made you wait several months for the 2nd ablation I’m not sure? Could they not go back in and fix it ASAP? I hope a lot of people on here thinking about getting ablation don’t read this because your definetly the less than 1% of anything happening to. And if the ablation went that bad, and the anesthesiologist messed up your TEE that bad which is a very basic procedure I’m hoping you filed a lawsuit against them. This is unacceptable and should have never had happened. You need to save other people by reporting them for sure. To much went wrong.

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You aren’t getting it. It’s definitely not the worst I’ve read on this forum!

In my case there were no errors, and we are not a society who sue at the drop at a hat, if we are treated at an NHS hospital we are effectively suing ourselves and one would need to prove negligence.

Whilst my procedure was a private procedure, I had every faith in the expertise of the EP & my procedure was under sedation & it was that which was thought to cause the muscle weakness/spasms which caused the TOE to get stuck. That couldn’t have been foreseen. I had an unknown underlying condition which caused the complications.

I just had a 3 hour procedure to revise my Pacemaker without sedation & only paracetamol because so many drugs will cause me problems.

Ablation is still a relatively new therapy and although it helps many, it does carry risk & one has to assess benefits to risks.

I know many who would prefer to live with AF than chance an ablation, especially when you are older & have other conditions & we need to respect and support their decisions. It’s not all about fear.

It’s worth reading this drjohnm.org/

In it he points out that there have never been blind clinical trials with ablations, now whilst conducting blind trials with such an invasive procedure is in itself an ethical dilemma, because there has not been clinical trials we cannot take individual doctor’s word as fact. There is still debate around long term effectiveness of ablation therapy. It’s thought to be highly effective for those newly diagnosed who are fit, healthy & under 40 and should be a first line therapy. For the rest of us, it isn’t that clear cut.

As to the wait - in the UK we have demand vastly outnumbering resources & supply so many will wait 6 - 12 months on an ablation list, period.

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I just don’t understand the UKs way of medicine and surgeries I suppose. I’ve read all of dr Johns publications. He live about 45 minutes from me. I don’t understand what NHS means as well. I know my EP told me he wouldn’t attempt a TOE without general anesthesia because of that reason. It’s very different here yes. If you go into afib you drive to the hospital and they cardiovert you and you go home in a couple hours. There is no waiting here for anything. Of course we pay dearly for insurance I pay $390 a month. America is trying to go to socialized medicine and I pray they don’t as many people will die. I don’t want the government to pay for my healthcare. Basically they are in charge of your life. In return it’s free healthcare

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And in that we differ....... we have very different systems & I would hate to live in a country which didn’t have a national healthcare system, with all of it’s faults to us it’s far preferable than an overpriced private system. A typical ablation in the UK costs circa £15K. We’ve seen figures on this forum from $45k upwards for the same procedure.

We all pay for our healthcare - through National Insurance Contributions. It’s free at the point of delivery only but unfortunately we seem to be going down the privatised route.

Both systems have their advantages & disadvantages & neither is perfect. I know of many in the US who can’t afford their meds or to be treated.

Unfortunately, I’ve never been offered a CV at any hospital but then the service varies as many here do.

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I’m with you, but then I’m lucky as will happily travel etc even when having an episode.

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If you put phrenic nerve into the HU search box you will see quite a few posts about damaged phrenic nerve. I know of one post who had a tampernade & quite a few with months of digestive issues. To name a few.

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That’s why they didn’t do a normal ablation on me but the more invasive hybrid ablation. When they went in, they saw that my phrenic nerve was in the way, so they abandoned the procedure and proposed the hybrid one, where they could put the phrenic nerve out of the way.

It’s been a heavy procedure, but very lucky that my EP was a careful and alert man.

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That’s what I’m talking about. It seems that the EP and the anesthesiologist dropped the ball on that one. It’s definetly grounds for a lawsuit without a doubt. It’s ruined her life!

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It did not ruin my life. And they didn’t drop the ball.

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And the needle used to pierce the septum pierced my aorta. Straight to coronary care for hourly scans and a very worried EP . I am still glad I had my first ablation as it gave me some good years but I will not be having another!

I really do not wish my experience to put people off but I do think we should treat that 1% with a little respect before signing on the dotted line. X

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I was advised to have the ablation as soon as possible, since the evidence is showing that the earlier the ablation, the better chance of the Afib not returning. Therefore, I had the ablation after only one diagnosed episode of Afib. I think I actually had another one a few years earlier, but it was never diagnosed as such. I was fortunate to have no complications from the procedure, and thus far, am Afib free after almost a year. I am not young (67), but still am active and want to remain so. But, I certainly understand the hesitancy that some people have over getting an ablation. It is scary and not totally risk free. Some people are fine with the medications.

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......I was advised to have the ablation as soon as possible, since the evidence is showing that the earlier the ablation, the better chance of the Afib not returning.......

Good point Jjda - very good point indeed. If I need one I`m hoping it will be in a couple of years - I want to balance 'sooner rather than later' with the latest tech.

What to do though. Strike while the iron is hot or see what new procedures are on the horizon ?

Tough call.

Best,

Paul

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Go for it now!! Each day you wait the success rate goes down!

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Point noted Ed ;-)

Best,

Paul

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I wouldn’t just say that so easy if I hadn’t been through both ablations lol. Just have confidence that it’s the right thing to do and faith and don’t look back! Trash those meds that make you tired all the time!

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I am the same as you .Next week it will be one year post ablation.No complications no AF ,age69,and no meds except rivaroxaban.I also am very active and enjoying my quality of life.yeah

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Hi Ed

We must all speak as we find re arrhythmia cures and I'm pleased to hear that your ablations have been so successful. Long may that continue.

My sister had a period of a few attacks of AF, she chose to ignore them and not even see a doctor. She's a bit that way, likes to bury her head where health is concerned. Anyway, after that short period they never returned again. Think she's been fine now for about 15 years.

It sounds like you're one of the lucky ones, perhaps because you had your ablation while fairly young - who knows! I've had three, the first two made my condition worse but the third (with the same EP) really helped, but I still have mild AF or flutter.

So many members on this forum have discovered that by eating a mostly plant based diet and cutting out all food containing artificial additives, avoiding alcohol and losing weight has done more to help them than any ablation. By adopting this diet, along with ensuring that I'm breathing correctly, I've now been AF free for almost 6 months and I really wish I'd known about it before my first ablation in 2011.

So rather than recommend an ablation, I'd say to people change your diet first to see if that helps before taking the ablation route.

Best wishes.

Jean

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That was a a choice I had because of alcohol. Where I’m younger and enjoy having cocktails and traveling my doctor said it’s the best option for me if I’m not going to stop drinking completely. How long did you wait to have your first ablation? And how old are you now? Also vitamin K that’s in greens is dangerous with blood thinners. I didn’t think your supposed to eat a lot of greens

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Greens are not a problem with Wafarin - if you eat a consistent, daily amount and adjust your Wafarin accordingly. Many of us are on DOACS anyway so it doesn’t matter as they are not VitK antagonists.

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Only if you are on the anticoagulant Warfarin ,which is Vitamin K sensitive. Not the newer versions such as Apixaban. They are not blood thinners by the way,different completely.

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Hi I have also found that taking 200 mg magnesium in a m and 200 mg in p m has really made a difference I’ve been doing this for 3 months now and my afib seems to have gone I know it probably hasn’t totally but it seems non existent I took magnesium when I read about other people taking it for afib as at that time it seemed to be getting a lot worse

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As long as the weekly intake of greens is the same, then it's no problem.

I think it was about 6 years after the start of my AF before I had my first ablation and I'm 68 now. My goodness those first two made me so much worse. I spent quite a bit of time in a hospital ward. Whereas my attacks had once been every 4-6 weeks, they could now keep on constantly for that length of time until I could have a cardioversion and I've had quite a lot of those. Now they can last for months on end, but as I said are milder after my third ablation.

I've been a member of this forum for many years Ed and have learnt so much from the posts.

I too once joyfully posted on here how well I felt 6 weeks after an ablation, but it was short lived! Lots of progress has been made over the years and new equipment designed recently so lets hope these procedures are far more successful these days.

Fingers crossed that you will stay AF free now and the eating healthy will continue to work for me too.

Jean

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Well I hope mine keeps on ticking I’m rhythm. If it doesn’t then on to the next ablation. Luckily I can go any Tuesday or Thursday of any week I choose. And if I need to get cardioverted I can get it done in an hour. I don’t know much about other counties health care but I know I’m America they take care of it right now! But I pay $390 a month for health insurance

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Once while admitted to hospital, sometime between my second and third ablation, a cardiologist there told me that my heart had probably become a bit stiff through the internal scarring from the ablations, so don't be too blasé about having lots.

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What part of the USA are you in? Your medical service sound amazing.

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I live in the state of Kentucky. But the medical insurance is the same for everyone in the USA. And people that are poor “poverty” get Medicaid insurance for free. And us tax payers get stuck with the bill. But we have to pay for our own insurance because if we don’t and we have to go to the Hospital we have to pay the entire amount out of pocket! And if you don’t they can take your house or car. Very good Healthcare in America but very expensive! That’s what the politicians are fighting over now! They want our healthcare to be like your all’s where the government pays for it all. But we would have to wait long lines like you guys and it would go by who is the sickest. And we wouldn’t be able to choose our own doctors or anything. I want it to stay like it is.

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Yes, we do sometimes have a long wait for an ablation, but in other cases care can be speedy. For my third ablation I was called on the Friday and had my procedure the following Wednesday. I was a bit taken aback as I had no idea I was going to have a third one.

I had a spot on my leg and was referred to a specialist who diagnosed it as a squamous cell carcinoma. I saw my nurse practitioner at my doctor's surgery, then the specialist, then had it removed and the whole process from start to having it removed was two weeks.

We can also choose which consultant we would like to see and they can be anywhere in this country. I know a few people on here who travel quite a way to see the ones they have chosen. With our medical care all people are treated equally and with compassion whether rich or poor. All medication is free to young people and those of retirement age. So it looks like there is good and bad in both countries. Our healthcare is not entirely free as an amount is taken from our wages towards this as soon as we start work to the day we retire.

My sister lives in Dallas, Texas and has lived in the U.S. since the late 1960's. She has good healthcare insurance, but tells me that poor people are dying because they can't afford to buy things like insulin. Have you no compassion for those less fortunate than yourself?

Jean

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I was told to many ablations can damage your heart because of the scaring after each one so I wouldn’t just rush off and expect to get another one just like that and it isn’t a cure you know it’s just a procedure to help the symptoms and in the nhs in England Drs only do this if they feel it would be really helpful but an American said to me once in America drs will do anything just to get your money

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My ablation was all round the heart and the burning has scarred it (although my EP is highly regarded) therefore it would be too risky to have any more ablations. Makes sense the poor old heart being lasered and burned and can only do it so many times.

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You only pay $390 a month for health insurance? You must get it through your employer. Lucky you! I had free health insurance through my employer before I retired. I retired at 60, and before I qualified for Medicare, I was paying $1500 a month for family coverage. Now I am paying $399/mo between what they take out of my SSA for Part B, the supplement I have, and the Part D coverage. I am fortunate to have a decent pension.

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I’m 39 or it would be $1500 a month lol

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No waiting at all

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Sounds like good service.

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Yeah it is! But without insurance a heart ablation is $50,000 dollars!! I have to pay every time I go to doctor also

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And in UK it’s circa £15K -£20k - privately.

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Ive had PAF 3 1/2 yr, Im a healthy 66yr old, only taking low dose metoprolol and anticoagulant daily, flecainide pip. My last a fib event has been 14 mo ago, Ive not had an ablation as a fib currently is a non issue. If it rears its ugly head up on a regular basis, I would consider an ablation. I was not impressed with the last major ablation study results so right now my thought is “ if it aint broke, dont fix it”.

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My cardiologist weighed up the risks against benefits. At this stage he says prefers not to do ablation but it is a possibility.

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I haven't read any of the comments - i would like to but I don't have the time right now.

I have had one ablation and was completely off meds and in NSR for about 8 months. We think i flipped back into afib in about March. I discovered I was in afib at a checkup in June. I have been cardioverted and am now back on flecainide and beta blocker.

My options were/are: manage the afib with meds; try an ablation; stay in afib and leave it untreated (probably just a beta blocker).

I am 45 and my EP recommends, given my age, i try another ablation, which is what will happen. I have to admit I have some very mixed feelings about this - which I never thought I would have.

I initially thought managing it through meds would be the best option. But for reasons I do not understand I am suffering on flecainide right now, when previously it has been absolutely fine.

I could manage living in afib for the past few months ok (I thought it was a mild flu). I think my first ablation has helped to make the afib bearable, which it wasn't previously. So a part of me just wants to accept I have a conked heart (I have stenosis in two valves) and get on living in afib and adapt my exercise goals accordingly (give up running, mountain biking and do weights, pilates and day hikes).

The scientist and rational optimist in me says I have nothing to lose going for the ablation, which is why I am going to go ahead with it.

Thats a perspective for you, not an answer I know.

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My cousin, three years older than me, had two attempts at ablation in his 50s. One, he went straight into AF when they began the procedure and they had to call it off. The second, the surgeon pierced his pericardium. He referred to that humorously as 'nearly kicking the bucket,' and I have to say that his experiences put me off a bit. Not that I've ever been offered an ablation, as I usually only have one or two episodes a year, and I live in Wales, so very unlikely ever to be put forward for one. I think for me the symptoms would have to be seriously interfering with my quality of life before I got active and moved to England for a chance at ablation.

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I lived in N Wales when I was first diagnosed with AF, and was referred to an EP to have an ablation. I then moved to the Midlands, saw a different EP and declined an ablation. Can you not see an EP in your part of Wales or be referred to an English one?

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I think our doctors are just happy to let things run as long as I'm not on their doorstep complaining to be honest. I don't even get an annual review - well, I had one once, but that's it!

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Well if you ever wanted to go down that route, I'm sure they'd find a way for you to see someone :o)

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Hope so! I've had more attacks this year than usual. I am going to try to lose weight and then if it's still getting worse I will go and have a moan at them. I remember one saying brightly that they had plenty of wiggle room as they could give me up to 10mg bisoprolol, but my BP's already low and HR only 58 resting, so I am not entirely persuaded!

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Please see my response to the original poster at the end of this thread. It may be worth you exploring alternatives. It doesn't do any harm anyway. Even if the AF returns for me, I've made a life changing breakthrough with a load of negative baggage I was clinging on to :o)

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Will do! Thanks!

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Good to hear from you, sorry your AF is playing up. X

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Good to hear from you too! Life has been a bit stressful, so not terribly surprised. I have to try to get a grip on it, then hopefully it will go back to grumbling a couple of times a year again...

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They should have just cardioverted him and continued with the surgery??

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I don't know... That's what he told me, and it would have been some years ago now.

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Unfortunately it isn't always a cure. It might be said that it is a 95% success rate in America, but reading on this forum and from my own experience, that hasn't been the case. Plus as you are only 39 hopefully that helps too.

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I had one done when I was 36 and it was not successful. In fact it got worse. Statistics say 90% are fixed by ablation and mine wasn’t. My EP does not recommend an ablation bc it you have too many you can end up with a pacemaker. So for now the first line of treatment is flecainide. Metoprolol gave me dark depression, increased blood sugar, and made 1/3 of my hair fall out. So, yes I wished the ablation worked. Also, I have an American doctor who is not pushing ablation at all. That’s stereotypical about the USA. Not everyone is like that or all about $$. There is so much more to life than $$.

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I personally was scared because it's burning part of your heart. I don't think that is something to take lightly. There are risks involved. I had 3 episodes of SVT in 2 years. It wasn't "bad". I also ended up being one of my doc's statistics when as a healthy-otherwise 29 yr old, I ended up with a pulmonary embolism.

I think it's quite silly to be so nonchalant and think it isn't a big deal to have a procedure done on your heart. 🤷 that's a scary thing even if it is the best option.

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Yes I agree.

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The short answer to your question is that sometimes, some people choose to look at alternatives.

The long answer is this: I'm 54 and I had AF for years without being diagnosed; post diagnosis I was referred for an ablation but decided to experiment with weight loss and improving my diet/lifestyle.

Early this year none of the things I'd tried had worked and the AF episodes were almost weekly. I was on Flecainide and Apixaban and they were making me ill too, and not helping the AF. Because I was not happy about having an ablation yet, I decided to try a third route.

As I've always been interested in the spiritual way of looking at life, I meditated on this issue and was guided to try working on a particular issue I'd had for most of life, involving being 'broken hearted' that a family member had treated me so badly. It was the biggest emotional/psychological issue I have, but with help from another spiritual therapist, we worked on healing all the crap and negativity that I was carrying.

Since we did that, I have endured all my known triggers for AF (40degrees heatwave in Spain, stress, pancreatitis in hospital, drinking alcohol and dancing the night away etc etc) and have not had one episode of AF.

I won't say I'm cured. However I would just like to point out that it is useful to be open minded, and to accept that what works for one may not work for another, and also to have respect for everyone's individual healing journey in life.

Love to us all :o)

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I agree 100%!!! The sad part is many have crappy (and they don't even know it) socialized medicine whereby healthcare is RATIONED and they have to wait months if not years for a simple ablation that takes a day and a half of one's time, and they almost always are 100% back to normal the next day.

My 1st ablation, I hated the 5 week wait, but second one required only a 2 week wait.

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Many on the forum are still recovering 6 months after the procedure so not sure where you get "100% back to normal the next day" from.

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From personal experience after two ablations!!! Ablations gone badly is not common in the U.S. Our experts truly are just that.

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But that's your experience, it doesn't mean it's the same for everyone, I'm sorry but this USA is superior talk is getting a bit tiresome 😞

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Where do you get this idea that ablation is more successful in the U.S? I’m pretty sure that Japan and Europe, particularly Germany are just as advanced.

I wonder if you have a secret hankering to be British and experience our fair medical system and wonderful doctors.

All the best from a hillbilly from Hicksville 🤪

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Because I have several examples from early 70s and recently with family members in Canada that have suffered under socialized medicine, and I hear a plethora of stories HERE of those on LONG waiting lists just to simply have a 1st visit with an EP.

When you say "fair" medical system", I don't have to settle for just "fair". Great to excellent is much better!

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You said "our experts truly are just that" I'm saying "So are ours"!

There are several meanings of the word fair. As an adjective it can mean;

1) Treating people equally

2) Pleasing to the eye

3) Pale or light-coloured

4) Lacking exceptional quality

5) Free of clouds or rain

Just to clarify, my meaning was no.1 not no.4.

But I believe you were joking so my reply is tongue in cheek!

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Yup! Was joking! But seriously, Our healthcare system is great. Both quick access to quality services and affordability. Very poor people get ObamaCare for free, poor to moderate income folks get it very cheap, and middle class folks get it for moderate cost (if one takes the time to do research and shop around for the BEST of a plethora of plans). Anyone who doesn't take advantage of it is a FOOL!

The one year I had it, I had several hospital stays and cardioversions and an ablation, and my TOTAL of all medical bills was $193,000. I had paid a TOTAL of around only $1,200 for the year ($100 a month), and my maximum out-of-pocket expenses with my plan was $2,250. So for spending only $3,450, I saved spending a massive amount of medical costs - what a bargain!!!

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My sister in Atlanta wouldn't agree that your "healthcare system is great" when her insurance won't cover the cost she can't afford to pay and no they aren't poor but the costs are just ridiculously high,

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She obviously and unfortunately did not get on ObamaCare along with shopping around for the best plan. I found you can get a HIGH cost plan with poor coverage, all the way to a low cost coverage with GREAT coverage. It is like they threw darts at a board to determine price & coverage! The nice thing about it, is every year during open enrollment, you can shop around AGAIN and switch to an even better plan. this is what I did. But I am not the average person. I shop around for EVERYTHING I buy and get the best of bargains!

Heck, I just bought an ounce of gold for UNDER market value! An ounce is worth $1,418, and I paid $1,390, plus I get 2% back on my credit card, so I effectively paid $1,362.

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Yeah, a real bargain! Must come over there to save some money lol.

Seriously though, is it value for money? Think about how much the people of the U.S. are wasting on admin costs, over-inflated drug costs and (very appropriately here) the extra charges to cover defence costs from all that suing!

Shame I have to go out in a minute as I have a lot more to say on the subject. Take care :-)

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My example speaks for itself. GOVERNMENT run programs are notoriously INEFFICIENT!

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👏👏👏

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I had a tricky decision to make with prostate cancer and the Cyberknife procedure. Eventually I went for it. It has caused certain issues that any man with a very attractive 12 years younger wife would fear; but overall it was worth doing even though I could possibly have lived to 100 without the cancer breaking out of the prostate. It's now gone forever 100%. However, the cyberknife could have resulted with me in nappies (diapers) for life, and I dodged a bullet there. Now comes the ablation decision and whether I will be pushing my luck by spinning the wheel again.... I am not in my 30s, but if I were, the decision is a double edged sword anyway, and it could mean avoiding 50 years of afib, or volunteering for 50 years of being crippled. In the words of Clint, "Feeling lucky punk ?"

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I had 1 ablation and am glad I did, it didn't work for a while but now I been 2 years without a afib episode. Doctors says I may have to have another some day on the other side of the heart, but for now I am OK. I agree with you it is a simple procedure, but I was really scare when they did it. Now I know it isn't anything to scared of. I think the main reason is the fear and I understand how they feel.

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Too much uncertainty with the procedure. If it was one and done, I'd go for it. But too many people (especially on this forum) have MULTIPLE ablations and still have afib periodically. I'm not sure where you got 95% success rate; that's not anywhere near what I've been told. (Then again, if I were only 39 I'd probably have a different view. I was diagnosed at 70.)

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Well I want to jump in here! I live in the US. And yes I love our healthcare system. We don't have to wait for anything. As for our premiums we pay for insurance but you pay one way or another. You pay out of your check for NHCS or you pay in the US for insurance. In the US we tax payers pay for millions of people on medi-caid. Most everything they get in healthcare is free to them. It is paid by the American Taxpayer. The government has no money. Money comes from the people. For some reason many people forget that. People are not dying in the US because they cant get Insulin. They are dying because they don't apply for medi-caid or seek help. American Doctors are ethical and moral people. Like people everywhere there are those that are not ethical. There are EPs with little experience and EPs with a lot of experience. It is important for us all to do our due diligence when seeking medical care. I am an RN and I see a room with 2 patients in it. The private insurance persons care looks no different to me then the medi-caid patients care. That is the honest to God truth. As for to have an ablasion or not. That is such a personal issue and we must remind ourselves to respect ones own decision. I was very grateful to all of you for your opinions as to whether I should have an ablation. You all were so kind and considerate and respectful about your experiences on this forums. I feel like you are family when I see your names. We are all in this fight together. CDreamer & Aufgeblassen I fully understand your position and respect all you have written! I know that I had an amazing EP and I had full confidence in him. I am 3 weeks post ablation and have had no issues so far. I am off all meds except Anti Coagulant. I don't care what anyone says about it being a "no brainer". Piercing your groin, burning your heart nerves etc. is a very real invasive procedure. I stand on the side of whatever each of you personally decides while giving my "asked for" opinion. Bless you all here on this most amazing forum.

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If I had to wait months to get cardioverted. That would be the day I moved to America. Noway I’m staying 180bpm and having RVR for months because there is a line to wait in. And then another year to have an ablation if you decide you want one. Noway could I deal with that type of healthcare. If I don’t get cardioverted in an hour or 2 I’m flipping out.

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I suggest that you read the "CABANA" trial, especially the comments from Dr. Milton Packer.

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I agree 100%!!! One's life is light night and day between living with AF and post ablation. You get your life back!

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