Hi everyone. My first two PAFs were 4 yrs apart then the next 3 months later so now I have been tested for sleep apnoea at my electrophysiologists request. Has anyone any info about the correlation between these two. The result came back as mild sleep apnoea. I don't snore or have any of the symptoms of being tired, etc.
Has anyone found that treatment has helped their AF?
Thanks, BC.
Treating any co-morbidity will help AF.
Yes, CPAP really improved my QOL overall. Takes a while to get used to and not everyone does but if you have good support and persevere, definately worth it IMHO.
Yes, I was diagnosed with very mild SA following a stay in hospital with AF.
Normally they wouldn't treat someone with SA as mild as mine, but because of the AF they gave me a CPAP machine.
I feel loads better using it and I am convinced that it has kept AF at bay.
People with SA a four times more likely to develop AF
when I stopped breathing my sats quickly dropped to 85%, causing stress on my heart
resources.hrsonline.org/pdf...
Thanks Mikee
Hi Mikee
Sorry to interrupt your post. I have just been turned down for a sleep study because my Epworth score is only 5. However, my heart rate rises any time from 4 onwards and can go as high as 145. This wakes me up but I don't really feel much. It doesn't happen during the day only when I am in bed and Im woken several times a night. It only lasts for short periods but I did have a short run of AF on a 7 day tape at night which went straight back to normal as was the rest of the tape.
I saw my doc last week to try and get a sleep study as I am convinced I have some form of sleep apnoea which I have had for years, causing insomnia and fatigue, but I do not get many symptoms during the day and I am slim s that went against me even though I have read that slim people get it too and I gave doc this info! I guess my only option would be to get a private referral as NHS have refused my request for an overnight sleep study. Im 64 and female. Really annoying because symptoms are so mild. As you have experience of these things would welcome your comments, although I appreciate you are not a medic and neither am I!
Regards
JaneC
Hi Jane, I was told that sleep apnoea can be obstuctive or central. Central is not caused by snoring but is a brain problem where you breathe too fast and CO2 builds up too high. This stops you breathing until it drops (something like that 🤔) and it occurs in people of all sizes.
BC
Thanks expenses
Its a shame the NHS won't acknowledge. The questions on Epworth form don't ask about heart rate, snoring, waking up, size etc! I don't snore very much but do have very minor small vessel disease picked up on MRI. They found nothing else. So it could be a brain thing like you say.
Regards
JaneCx
Sorry for the late reply, I have been away for the weekend and a social media free zone 
I don't know what to say really, I had been refused/dismissed for years by my GP even though I was overweight and snored very loudly, it was only my EP that got me referred, and then because of medical history, treated.
From memory I scored a 5 too, so I guess that for once I was lucky that the NHS worked together for me.
Are you under an EP at all? maybe you could contact them and short circuit the system?
My experiences were very similar Mike - so I exaggerated my responses to the questionnaire. When the sleep studies came back it showed I was stopping breathing about 11times/hour - which is on the top side of mild SA & cusp of Moderate. After using the CPAP I don’t think I had another episode of nocturnal AF, occasionally 1st thing in the morning, but SO improved my sleep generally which in turn meant I wasn’t nearly as brain foggy and tired.
I recently was referred back to the Pulmonolgist for review who told me that I really didn’t need the CPAP as I had only mild to moderate SA and perhaps I’d like to return it. I replied really, you don’t think that it is useful for me as a Myasthenia and for my AF? A very hurried, oh no, no - of course you must use it if it helps those conditions. Mmmmm.......
I said I could do without it as I had bought myself a travel version which in some ways I was more comfortable with as it is not continuous air pressure, it senses when you breath out which for me is better but it’s not really meant as an everyday machine. I am thinking of investing in the home version of that as what I don’t like about the travel version is that it uses tablets as a lubricant instead of having a water reservoir and they make me sneeze.
Interesting that they questioned you still needing it. I regularly see an ahi of zero so I'm not sure how much I need mine, or when they will try and stop me having one.
Mine is a resmed s9, and after the initial couple of months hating it , it is now comfortable with the add-on s mentioned previously.
Thanks Mikee
As it happens I have a follow-up appointment with my cardiologist on 1st July so I will take it up with him.
Its annoying that the NHS are so rigid but not surprising I suppose in the scheme of things. Its very strange that these bouts are so short lived and the reason I don't want to go on beta blockers as I normally suffer from low BP and things very normal during the day. I also have Hashimotos Thyroiditis and Essential Tremor, so not at all straight forward in my case. I feel rather sorry for the poor Cardiologist or anyone else who has to see me!
Hope you enjoyed your weekend with no computers.
How lovely!
Regards
JaneCx
Hi Mikee
I am seeing cardiologist this afternoon and hope I can convince him that I may have OSA or centeal sleep apnoea. Will take info if I can find any!
JaneCx
what sort of info are you looking for?
resources.hrsonline.org/pdf...
Hi Mikee69
I think I have discovered something of a miracle. I started wearing a chin strap at night which although took a bit of getting used to seems to have mostly resolved my higher heart rate issue at night, according to my watch that is. I think its a fairly accurate one. I looked it up on line and there is evidence to suggest that this can help for those with sleep apnea type symptoms. My ECG was completely normal and I have an echocardiogram in August. I told the doc who seemed quite surprised by this. I seem to be sleeping better and not waking quite so often which is good news. One night it fell off at one point and the HR went up but only for a few seconds. Much better than having a CPAP!
Thought you would like to know about this.
JaneCx
Thanks for the update, I'm pleased that you have found something that works for you.
I wouldn't be without my CPAP now. It does take some getting used to, but now it is just normal
Thanks that's interesting. I have mild SA and was told we don't normally treat that level but I didn't push the fact that I had AF, maybe I should have, as my sats can drop quite low.
Hi BC
My EP told me about research in sheep where they pumped carbon dioxide into their systems and they went into AF and when the then put oxygen in their systems they went back into sinus rhythm. This is why sleep studies are important for people with AF as lower oxygen levels at night when people have sleep apnea impact the heart.
I was like you - slept well, was never tired during the day, no waking with headaches (all the usual sleep apnea signs). I had a sleep study, also at the request of my EP. In most phases of my sleep I was fine but when I was in REM sleep, it showed sleep apnea and my oxygen levels dropped to 91% and briefly to 89%. I started using a CPAP (with the least invasive mask possible as I’m highly claustrophobic and always fall asleep on my stomach) and whilst there was no noticeable improvement with AF at that time, since my ablation (my 4th) a few weeks later I have remained AF free.
Wow, that study sounds very interesting, I'll look it up, thanks. I had the full sleep study in hospital but havent seen my gp for the results yet . Thanks again.
Hi, I too had/have mild Sleep Apnoea, discovered as I pushed for a sleep study after 2nd ablation. My EP also pushed the sleep clinic as they originally deemed it not sufficiently bad enough for treatment. Now I have a CPAP which has improved my quality of sleep and reduced my SA 'events.'
My EP wanted me checked also. Never thought I had it. Apparently I was having 16-22 events an hour and may need oxygen besides!! Started CPAP in December and I like it. Down to 1-2 events per hour now and have only had 1 long AF episode that resolved itself even though I still carry the PIP for emergencies. Think I will be using this CPAP machine a long time ahead.
Sounds pretty good to me. Hopefully I will be the same 😄
I have sleep apnea treated an Cpap machine. I’ve been AF free for 2 years on Flecinaide , and just had an Ablation as a way of hopefully not going back into AF, the relationship between AF and sleep apnea is when you stop breathing in your sleep it does put pressure on your heart , any outside pressure on your heart can push you to AF, so by reducing your sleep spea takes away one of the possible causes that may push your heart back to AF. If only mild though Id question your dr about it and the need to treat
Thanks Steve, I will.
I had a sleep study after my ablation, and was found to have sleep apnea. I got a CPAP machine, and have used it now for about 5 months. I am getting great scores every night, but have not noticed any difference in the way I feel. I have not had an Afib incident since a few months prior to my ablation last September, so it is difficult to tell if the CPAP has helped that or not. I hate the machine, just because it is a major annoyance, and I have to pack it up and take it with me everywhere I travel. Just one more thing to have to mess with. But, I am using it. Prior to my diagnosis of sleep apnea, a doctor told me I had it, because I "have a small mouth, and anybody with a small mouth probably has sleep apnea". Not sure there is any scientific evidence to back that up, but he was right in my case.
Good for you...I haven't travelled with mine.
I travel with mine all the time, including many weekend breaks in our caravan. It is a bit of a faff, but no real issue. Mine is quite bulky as I have a water tank for the humidity, plus I bought a heated hose (the NHS don't supply these) that has made a huge difference to the comfort especially in the colder months
Just an idea but if the NHS won't give you a Cpap machine, you could always buy a second-hand one yourself off eBay and see what it does for you. You would need to guess at the pressure setting but something like 8 would be a reasonable place to start. Masks are easily available although not cheap. Lots of people in countries without medical coverage are forced to do this. It is not medication after all and won't do you any harm. I have a machine from the NHS since my sleep study showed moderate sleep apnea, but am actually asymptomatic. I use it since it is supposed to reduce the recurrence of AF and so far so good. Good luck in finding a solution.
Really not a good idea to ‘guess’ the pressure - get it wrong & you can do damage. You also need a script to buy a new one, that may not apply to 2nd hand?
If you did get one, get an automatic sensing machine which will adjust automatically such as the ResMedAirSense - then at least you won’t do damage to yourself. On the NHS a physiologist will monitor you & for the 1st month you get a ‘test’ machine which monitors your breathing & pressure required which is how they set the pressure.
Please research before you go the DIY route.
Hi CDreamer, where did you get the data showing that the wrong pressure can do damage? If you can indicate a study showing that a cpap at a mid-level pressure could be dangerous,then I concede that it would not be wise to try it unaided.
I’m going by what both my pulmonologist and physiologist said when I thought I might need a higher pressure but for me, the concern was build up CO2 because my muscles would be weakened. We cannot give advice to individuals on this forum because we do not know a person’s health history.
There are warnings on the ResMed site of when contraindicated for certain conditions - such as COPD, one would assume they are there for a reason. By all means search for studies but in the meantime I will take expert advice.
Point taken. Obviously better to get physician advice before embarking on this adventure. At least if you get a go-ahead and NHS still won't pay for it, it does leave an option open to get treatment without breaking the bank. BTW, the new Philips Dreamwear masks are really a huge improvement for fit function and comfort for me at least!
Very good suggestion I think. Thanks.
I have been diagnosed with AFib properly for only 3 months and also at the same time with severe SA (over 92 events an hour!). The AFib issue has been ongoing for about 3-4 years and I know I have had SA for a long time as my partner has badgered me about it. I think my weight has something to do with the SA but not everything. I had a HA in 2008 and been on medication since. I am now only on Apixiban to prevent strokes but not any direct medication or treatment for the Afib. Its too early in my CPAP journey to say whether it is going in improve the AFib – but I have still had 4-16hr attacks two or three times since starting on CPAP 8 weeks ago. Also starting on Apixiban at the same time as the CPAP was hard going. I am not sure I feel much better on it, Ahi score is down to between 2.5 and 7 a night, but my sleep patterns are not great – tend to not got to bed until late and then find it difficult to settle but I do think my mind is clearer. So I could do better with my own routine.
I would definitely try to find out more and get checked out. Anything that can help should be investigated!
Hi! Yes, if you read specifically on well-known websites about AF...one of the causes is Sleep Apnea. I was diagnosed with this a couple of years ago, given the sleep apnea machine but didn't really use it because the "Mask" was uncomfortable and gave me kind of a Claustrophobia. Anyway, because of the stress on the heart from inappropriate sleep, combined with smoking for over 40 years, being over weight and a family history of Sleep Apnea...I got AF that was misdiagnosed originally as a "Panic Attack"! I finally got to a good hospital Emergency Room where every test possible was given me. I was admitted, had Coronary catherization done and Cardioversion which reversed the AF. I am now on many medicines including Pradaxa and watching carefully for any side effects. Please be advised that some web sites DO NOT have up to date info on Pradaxa. There IS AN ANTIDOTE IV available that helps counteract the med and was approved by the FDA in 2018. This made me a bit more relaxed about taking this med. Please check CURRENT info on Pradaxa. God bless you all. PS I am a new poster.
I was tested a year ago and had mild sleep apnea, which may well have been a significant contributory factor to AF. I wasn't offered CPAP. I was very grateful to Bob for suggesting nasal strips as a first option prior to the CPAP. I use them every night now and I don't get that urgent feeling in the morning to stick my head out of the window for oxygen. I don't know whether this is relevant but I am also trying to retrain myself to breathe less shallow by regular deep breaths during the day whenever I think of it.
Interesting to see so many with mild SA and problems obtaining a machine. My mild SA was only 8 events a hour, but after the pushing from EP the sleep doctor decreed that I was also borderline with 'positional SA' and that most of my snoring was supine. The machine he gave me reduced my average events under 5. Not a significant amount of difference, but I noticed this in quality of sleep. Now I found a wonderful website and forum
apneaboard.com/forums/Forum...
with loads of information. There is also a software program called OSCAR that can be downloaded and this can retrieve all the information from the CPAP and one can see all events, obstructive SA'a and Central SA's, leaks etc. That's if one is interested of course. From this site I learnt that chin drop during sleep can lead to clusters of obstructive SA events and I was able to see that this was happening to me. I am now using a chin pad to prevent chin dropping and to see if it helps. Last night I had zero events. Hope it lasts.
Very intersting, thanks.
Obstructive Sleep Apnoea as a cause for AF?
Sleep Apnoea (SA) and DVLA Notification ******
Sleep apnea and afib
A possible helpful hint for those of you that think AF might be triggered by sleep apnoea
Obstructive Sleep Apnoea (OSA) and AF
