AF caused through your back ?

[Hardjuice]

I looked at a you tube thing from Dr Walach

Who claims Af is not a heart condition but a back condition

I'll put link on if I can find it again

Never heard this claim. Before

[Hardjuice]

youtu.be/eHjBhdJC1VM(Not working as expected?)

[jennydog]

Mmmmmm,

I've just had 2 prolapsed discs removed from my neck, C5/6 and C6/7. The rest of my spinal column is 72 years old and probably deteriorating although my bones are strong and I'm not plagued with arthritis.

I had an ablation 2 years ago because I have a seriously dilated left atrium and radiotherapy induced fibrosis therein.I cannot link that with my spinal column. I should be raring to go with the 2 new plastic discs but sadly they do not seem to have had any effect on my AF.

[BobD Volunteer]

That is always the problem with the internet. Too much information much of which is conjecture, conspiracy theory or just plain garbage as Einstein once said.

Atrial fibrillation is an electrical problem within the heart which if you have it can be triggered by lots of different things including the vagus nerve but that doesn't make it a nerve problem.

[Hardjuice in reply to BobD]

I think if you look him up you will find he knows a lot more of how a human body works than most

But report him if you like

[CDreamer]

I visit a chiropractor - he has put me into AF by adjusting my back on 2 occasions and he has taken me out of AF on about 5 occasions. Did it make any difference long term? NO!

This guy is talking nonsense! Bet if you checked QuackWatch he would be listed - if not report him.

[jeanjeannie50]

Interesting theory re AF, thank you for posting.

Jean

[Finvola]

There is no explanation or reasoning in his assertion and it rings hollow when he attacks tens of thousands of clinicians for their management of AF.

I wonder how many people with chronic back pain from prolapsed discs have taken long term NSAIDs such as Ibuprofen which is now known to cause AF, giving an apparent link between disc pain and AF?

[cassie46]

In answer to Finvola - I am one of those where excess Ibruprofen for pain relief has caused AF, I think there were a few other factors but that I think is the main one.

Cassie

[Finvola in reply to cassie46]

Same with me Cassie - high strength Ibuprofen long term for back pain - I too wonder if that was the main cause of my AF.

[Plantwords]

Thanks for posting this. I am willing to keep an open mind on factors which may cause AF or any other disease. Please let's not go down the route of attacking such theories, at one point in history people were vilified for believing the world was round.

[EngMac]

From my personal experience, I for one know that the spine and its issues do affect the heart and atrial fibrillation. I have had better results improving AF by visiting chiropractors than any other natural means that I have tried. I have finally found a chiropractor trained to work on C1, called the Atlas. Not all chiropractors have this training. He is also trying to adjust T1 and T2. I have had 13 treatments so far. It takes many treatments to keep vertebrae in a new location because the muscles want to keep them in their old position. Movement is in the range of fractions of millimetres. It will likely take a lot more treatments yet to insure my vertebrae work correctly. Chiropractors can easily tell if they are working correctly and mine are not yet. Although AF has not stopped completely, it and slow and missed beats have certainly been reduced significantly. I know for certain that pressure on my back will often cause AF and that I can often stop it by moving my back.

A friend of mine, who has had back issues for years, just had a pacemaker implanted. He was told, by back surgeons, to not go to a chiropractor. The heart doctor who did this said he did not think the heart was the problem but he did not know what was the cause. It is possible, but not proven, that treatments for AF may only be remedies for symptoms but not remedies for causes. Dr. John Mandrola has stated that the cause of AF is not known. He is not classified as a Quack.

I suggest that if you have not tried chiropractic treatment, this should be something to try. You must find a chiropractor who has a very detailed plan and who is qualified to treat C1 and T1 and T2. My chiropractor works on only these three vertebrae. He also has adjusted my hips so now my legs are the same length and I have equal weight on both feet.

If the chiropractor does not believe that fixing the spine will impact the heart, then find another one. By law, it is unlikely that chiropractors can say that they do anything to help AF and do not have patients like me who know they can. They just try to insure that the nerves in the spine are not "subluxated". I have had to tell chiropractors that they can help; and tell them the results of what they are doing so they know how to continue. Most of us know what our hearts are doing so we can tell when something we do, or is done to us, changes what the heart is doing. My chiropractor tells me that he does nothing to treat AF. He just fixes my spine; and if this does something to the heart, then that is just a side benefit. He must say this.

Chiropractic care has benefited me in many other ways so this alone has been worth the money. My wife also now goes for treatment and the results she has attained have been much more impressive than mine. She does not have AF.

If you have a significant bump on your spine, in line with the top of your shoulders, then TI and T2 are likely misaligned.

[EngMac]

Just a point of interest. My wife has 20 pounds more weight on one foot than the other. This can be fixed by realigning the hips.

The chiropractor should do a scan of your back to highlight where nerves are being "subluxated". Not all chiropractors have the same training and skill. Until the mid 80's, chiropractors were put in jail in the US for practicing their craft. So there is lots of bad press about them still. Yet, mal-practice insurance for chiropractors costs less than the insurance for their cars.

[EngMac in reply to EngMac]

I know of a chiropractor in Tampa, Florida and one in Halifax, Nova Scotia who are aware that AF can be helped with chiropractic treatments. If anyone wants to know their names, please send me a message.

[EngMac]

I have learned that regular chiropractic adjustments are likely as necessary as dental and eye exams. Keeping the nervous system happy is probably paramount to good health. I don't think many studies have been done to verify if chiropractic treatments can help AF. So unlike drugs and ablations, what to do is a bit of a guessing game. One thing I forgot to mention is I also use my Scenar device on my back and this seems to make a difference. Once again Scenar has not been studied in the West and so how it should be used is also a crap shoot. I think it helps me. Experimenting with other than the mainstream treatments is quite subjective since proven guidelines are not available and often the approach taken is not consistent from person to person. Many people are reluctant to vary from what doctors recommend, even when the result they achieve is less than optimum. I think pursuing options that do not require drugs or surgery might be worth a try, especially for younger people and before AF becomes more serious or standard treatments do not produce acceptable results.

[Jans5]

I don't know whether there is a connection but interestingly I put my back out just before Christmas causing pain when sitting and sciatica. I'm still seeing a physiotherapist and am due to go for an MRI on Thursday. Coincidentally my afib episodes have increased from having had a period of 3 months without any episodes to every 3 weeks since I hurt my back. I'll let you know if when they finally fix my back my episodes decrease or not.

[Rosy_Holly]

This year on the 21st February I had my first recorded Afib incident This was 7 hours after a chiropractor treatment. I was blue lighted to hospital and after treatment one of the Dr's queried my chiropractor treatment earlier in the day. A senior nurse asked if it was my first treatment , I told them that I had been going for over 30 years due to a serious back condition. The Dr said to tell them next time to be gentle. The nurse did not think there was a connection. This was followed by two lesser Afib on the 6th and 13th March (recorded on my recently purchased Kardia). I have since had another chiropractor treatment and have not had another Afib for over 5 weeks.

There is talk that I may have an ablation also to go onto apixaban. I have been doing a lot of reading about this drug, as I am very sensitive to them. I have discovered that I should not take Apixaban if I have had treatment on my back, like epidural , surgery. So that looks a no,no for me.

Beginning to think a lot of my problems are due to my back/neck. Thank you for posting, very interesting As Plantwords earlier said a lot of people were vilified for believing the Earth is round . How many of you know about Vitamin K2 M7? My Cardiologist didn't and it was discovered last century.

[Rosy_Holly]

I also have acupuncture and have two treatments since being diagnosed with Afib. These two have included acupuncture points for Afib. I have not had any Afib incidents since having these treatments.

[EngMac]

Hi rosy_Holly - chiropractor treatments can be quite varied. Depending upon where the treatment takes place is important. Nerves that impact the heart are at T1 and T2 and C1 can also have an impact. I have had general back treatments for over a year and recently 14 specifically on C1 and T1 and T2. These vertebrae often are still locked when I go for a treatment. For example, yesterday T1 was free. C1 and T2 needed adjustment. Today C1 was free and T1 and T2 needed adjustment. It can take many treatments before these move properly all the time. It seems, when they are moving properly, I don't have AF or AF symptoms. I can pretty much tell when they stop moving properly.

[EngMac]

Hi Jans5. You should make a chiropractor appointment. My 87 year old mother-in-law spent two years going to physiotherapists, GP's, osteopaths, massage therapists, etc and could almost never sit without excruciating pain. Five treatments by a chiropractor and she has been fine for over a year. She was a nurse, so getting her to see a chiropractor, when she was being told by most of the medical community that they would hurt her, took a lot of persuading. Now she advocates to everyone how great chiropractors are.

[Jans5]

I've went for an MRI yesterday so going to go back to my physio to get the results but am currently trying to find a good local chiropractor. I had good and bad results with physiotherapist and osteopaths in the past both for my back and shoulder, physios in particular seem to vary greatly on the way they treat you.